The Witch abilities are very clearly meant to be used with the new type of soul break, the one that powers up with more hits. Also meant to be used with both the 4* and 5* on the same character.
If so, that's an incredibly small niche vs the chain -gas.
The Thunder version seems useful but only because of no wind requirement. But if you have a chain -ga in an element, the requirements to make the witch spells better sure seem impossible.
In a world where this wasn't a gacha game maybe, but I've been trying to build a holy damage team for months and haven't gotten a single offensive soul break for it. I don't expect this to be any different.
Does using a 2-hit Witch command and then a 4-hit Witch command during a chain soul break do more damage per second than using the 2-hit Witch command and then a Chain-aga spell under the same chain soul break?
I have no idea! I don't really know exactly how the chain soul breaks work, though I did just find out something interesting. Shantotto's CSB has a kind of hidden effect, which people are calling a field effect. It adds 20% damage to all Lightning abilities (the type of ability is of course going to be different for different CSBs, and the amount might be different too) used during the chain duration. This notably includes the entry of the CSB itself, since the chain count includes the hits from the CSB. This makes it somewhat easier to get your 6-hit Witch abilities to exceed the 19998 damage that a Chain-ga can reach. Using the Witch abilities would give 8 points to the chain counter, as opposed to the 4 you would get from two Chain-gas, and as I said I'm not sure exactly how much that matters.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Does using a 2-hit Witch command and then a 4-hit Witch command during a chain soul break do more damage per second than using the 2-hit Witch command and then a Chain-aga spell under the same chain soul break?
I have no idea! I don't really know exactly how the chain soul breaks work, though I did just find out something interesting. Shantotto's CSB has a kind of hidden effect, which people are calling a field effect. It adds 20% damage to all Lightning abilities (the type of ability is of course going to be different for different CSBs, and the amount might be different too) used during the chain duration. This notably includes the entry of the CSB itself, since the chain count includes the hits from the CSB. This makes it somewhat easier to get your 6-hit Witch abilities to exceed the 19998 damage that a Chain-ga can reach. Using the Witch abilities would give 8 points to the chain counter, as opposed to the 4 you would get from two Chain-gas, and as I said I'm not sure exactly how much that matters.
Does using a 2-hit Witch command and then a 4-hit Witch command during a chain soul break do more damage per second than using the 2-hit Witch command and then a Chain-aga spell under the same chain soul break?
I have no idea! I don't really know exactly how the chain soul breaks work, though I did just find out something interesting. Shantotto's CSB has a kind of hidden effect, which people are calling a field effect. It adds 20% damage to all Lightning abilities (the type of ability is of course going to be different for different CSBs, and the amount might be different too) used during the chain duration. This notably includes the entry of the CSB itself, since the chain count includes the hits from the CSB. This makes it somewhat easier to get your 6-hit Witch abilities to exceed the 19998 damage that a Chain-ga can reach. Using the Witch abilities would give 8 points to the chain counter, as opposed to the 4 you would get from two Chain-gas, and as I said I'm not sure exactly how much that matters.
The field effect is only 12s though, I thought.
Pretty sure the entire chain effect is only 12s, including the field effect. Chain-gas are probably still better almost all of the time, and making the Witch abilities better is going to be difficult to achieve without having a lot of specific relics and some very good timing. I am going to wait to decide on the viability of the new school until we have some testing results from people playing the Japanese version of the game. It's entirely possible that it only works if you have enElement on the Witch caster and a CSB of that element to work with, in which case it seems pretty non-viable for the majority of people.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Does using a 2-hit Witch command and then a 4-hit Witch command during a chain soul break do more damage per second than using the 2-hit Witch command and then a Chain-aga spell under the same chain soul break?
I have no idea! I don't really know exactly how the chain soul breaks work, though I did just find out something interesting. Shantotto's CSB has a kind of hidden effect, which people are calling a field effect. It adds 20% damage to all Lightning abilities (the type of ability is of course going to be different for different CSBs, and the amount might be different too) used during the chain duration. This notably includes the entry of the CSB itself, since the chain count includes the hits from the CSB. This makes it somewhat easier to get your 6-hit Witch abilities to exceed the 19998 damage that a Chain-ga can reach. Using the Witch abilities would give 8 points to the chain counter, as opposed to the 4 you would get from two Chain-gas, and as I said I'm not sure exactly how much that matters.
The field effect is only 12s though, I thought.
Pretty sure the entire chain effect is only 12s, including the field effect. Chain-gas are probably still better almost all of the time, and making the Witch abilities better is going to be difficult to achieve without having a lot of specific relics and some very good timing. I am going to wait to decide on the viability of the new school until we have some testing results from people playing the Japanese version of the game. It's entirely possible that it only works if you have enElement on the Witch caster and a CSB of that element to work with, in which case it seems pretty non-viable for the majority of people.
Just something new to get people to chase relics, I guess. It's a cool idea at least.
Yea, but that only works if the resulting effect is much better. This is a niche skill school that only works in niche compositions with niche soul breaks and even then, is probably not that much better than the Chain -gas when all is said and done. Usually the rewards for accumulating so many unlikely factors should be much better than the bog standard huck a base 5* skill at them.
A permanent one would be better. Give it a password of pa or something and we can all complain about unluck in real time!
Got it, I'll work on it in an hour or so.
E: https://discord.gg/mNKVTKf should work. There doesn't seem to be a password function near as I can see, unless someone can point me in the right direction.
Anyone have tips for the U++ in FFX? I don't have any water relics, and if I bring a water RW I get murdered, if I bring a Wall RW I struggle to get past the butthead's def/resists.
Read the last few pages of the previous thread. I used five characters all contributing damage, 4 with water.. IIRC, Tyro and Y'shtola black, Yuffie ninja/medica, Agrias spellblade/debuff, Ramza FB/MB, RW Shout. Take a look at my post on page 96.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Think I'm done farming Seymour, since I need Saturday orbs pretty badly and I don't like missing Sunday xp either. All told, I killed him roughly 20 times. Got two major power orbs, saw Anima enter charge-up mode once, and got zero crystals. Greater power orbs for days
I echo everyone's comments about what a pushover Omega is this time around. How new was I, the first time he was a boss? I couldn't scrape together the orbs for two Stops, nor did I have two WHMs with BLM 3*. Long long time ago.
This time around, my two RW summoners (Garnet, Kefka) had 800 and 720 MAG, and thanks to Yda (who brought Power and Mental Breakdown) my Stoppers (Lenna, Relm) had ~800 MND apiece.
I could do it again with Yuffie instead of Yda, packing Power Breakdance and Ninja Lightning, but I don't have a honed Chain Thundaga for Lulu nor do I have a honed 4* Lightning summon for Garnet. But if I had to do it, that's an easy path to victory as well, just a longer one.
100 gems got me Lightning's new weapon. Probably won't use it because I already have her BSB. Oh well, another RS sword is at least nice.
50 mithril pull got me: Snow's SSB, Sazh's SSB, and Serah's BSB. So 4 relics overall. Pretty good haul. And Serah's BSB is my first mage BSB.
I haven't compared Serah's BSB to other mage relics, but the En-Ice seems good. The next time the Mote dungeons swing back around, I will probably set Serah's BSB as my RW for people who still need the Fire Cavern.
Couple that with Snow's SSB which is also ice damage, and I've suddenly got a pretty strong ice team. Do we have any new ice-vulnerable bosses on the horizon?
Serah's BSB is a pretty standard elemental aura mage BSB, which is to say it's really good. It's a step below Maria, Alphinaud, Papalymo or Edea, but absolutely a great item. It's certainly better than almost every other mage relic.
100 gems got me Lightning's new weapon. Probably won't use it because I already have her BSB. Oh well, another RS sword is at least nice.
50 mithril pull got me: Snow's SSB, Sazh's SSB, and Serah's BSB. So 4 relics overall. Pretty good haul. And Serah's BSB is my first mage BSB.
I haven't compared Serah's BSB to other mage relics, but the En-Ice seems good. The next time the Mote dungeons swing back around, I will probably set Serah's BSB as my RW for people who still need the Fire Cavern.
Couple that with Snow's SSB which is also ice damage, and I've suddenly got a pretty strong ice team. Do we have any new ice-vulnerable bosses on the horizon?
If you want me to set my RW back to Laguna's Freezing Barrage, they can be!
Omega is pretty straightforward to beat up with two stoppers and two mages to hurl RW Ashe BSB. For fun, I went back and beat him to death with a physical team, featuring only one stopper (whose MND wasn't all that high):
Tip: if you aren't keeping him Stopped to death, the big threats are Atomic Rays, Flame Thrower, and Wave Cannon. Bring Instant KO resist to help with Wave Cannon, and stack your magic defenses for the other two, filling in with Fire Resist in any slots you don't have IKO resist. Of course, you have to balance that with Blind resist so your people that don't have Lifesiphons can still hit. :P
Man, Prayer of the Lost is such a good RW for a team with native Shout or faked native Shout. That crit boost, and that infinite-use Cure Medica, work wonders.
edit:
I think someone once mentioned the idea of having Smitening still use Chaincharge instead of Lifesiphon + Full Charge, and just equip Ace Striker and use Smite whenever it comes up.
If I were to do that, which of Powerchain or Full Charge should I hone form R2 to R3 first? My first instinct is Full Charge, as I'd want more of those, to use with Smite.
...not that I can do either one right now; my MWO stock is too low.
Now I have two Support characters, but that's really going to cut into my damage options.
I nearly always run two Support characters and I have little issue with pushing out enough damage. Being able to bring Armor Breakdown can be quite useful. However, if you do not want to run Tyro as a support, he can easily do something like Powerchain + Full Charge, Dark Bargain + Full Charge, Dark Bargain + Dragoon Jump or Blood of the Wyvern + Dragoon Jump. This might be temporarily out of reach due to not enough 5* orbs, but it is something to consider for the future. Another thing he can do is run Ninja magic, which is pretty cheap, potentially paired with Protectga or Shellga. Still, it's not necessarily a bad idea to run two Support characters, it lets you stack Full Break, Power Breakdown, Magic Breakdown and Armor Breakdown which is a lot of mitigation and boosting of damage for everybody else on your team.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
And Geocities ++ down!
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Now I have two Support characters, but that's really going to cut into my damage options.
I nearly always run two Support characters and I have little issue with pushing out enough damage. Being able to bring Armor Breakdown can be quite useful. However, if you do not want to run Tyro as a support, he can easily do something like Powerchain + Full Charge, Dark Bargain + Full Charge, Dark Bargain + Dragoon Jump or Blood of the Wyvern + Dragoon Jump. This might be temporarily out of reach due to not enough 5* orbs, but it is something to consider for the future. Another thing he can do is run Ninja magic, which is pretty cheap, potentially paired with Protectga or Shellga. Still, it's not necessarily a bad idea to run two Support characters, it lets you stack Full Break, Power Breakdown, Magic Breakdown and Armor Breakdown which is a lot of mitigation and boosting of damage for everybody else on your team.
Personally, I almost always run with a 5* Support and a secondary Support character. That secondary could be a WHM with 4* Support (Y'shtola, Rosa), a character with a dual break SB (Gordon, Barret, etc.) or even non-Support characters with breakdown SBs (Vaan, Noel, Auron, Rikku). Thieves can also work pretty well as your second support character, since the Steal Power/Defense skills work like the Breakdowns do, plus access to Mug Bloodlust is pretty nice.
Blargh, Dungeon Updates mean MCs for cores, which means hauling their lame butts around for a few weeks.
Step up your game, Cores! You're keeping me from working on my A-Team during Sundaily!
Cores get egged to 50/65, I ain't got the patience to try to drag them through Sundaily
They still gotta drop MC 1b and 2, respectively.
Sundaily is for real characters at level 50+ who need XP; characters who need RMs to drop get to do the first 10 dungeons of each event, plus the fourth and fifth slot of daily dungeon teams.
If you really don't want to waste XP on someone while trying to get their RM to drop, there's always Break.
Fry on
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Blargh, Dungeon Updates mean MCs for cores, which means hauling their lame butts around for a few weeks.
Step up your game, Cores! You're keeping me from working on my A-Team during Sundaily!
Cores get egged to 50/65, I ain't got the patience to try to drag them through Sundaily
They still gotta drop MC 1b and 2, respectively.
Sundaily is for real characters at level 50+ who need XP; characters who need RMs to drop get to do the first 10 dungeons of each event, plus the fourth and fifth slot of daily dungeon teams.
If you really don't want to waste XP on someone while trying to get their RM to drop, there's always Break.
Yeah I'm using Break.
Char 1 is Core White Mage with auto-Draw Fire. If he isn't flattened by attacks, he gets petrified.
Char 2 has Break for WM, and Ruinga
Char 3 is Core Monk with Luneth's EXP Materia, so he's in he party for the least amount of time possible.
Char 4 has AoE to actually kill things.
Char 5 is Noel healing, to get him started from 50-65.
If WM drops her RM2 I can trim it down to three or two people, but for now this works.
Taking my potential FFXIII Cid Mission team through Sunday. Somehow, I ended up with a lot of FFXIII soul breaks despite never really gunning for them.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
The FF13 crew is great for CMs even without relics. Lightning ChainCharges, Snow Saint Crosses, Fang Dragoon Jumps, Sazh Support 5, and a healer.
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If so, that's an incredibly small niche vs the chain -gas.
The Thunder version seems useful but only because of no wind requirement. But if you have a chain -ga in an element, the requirements to make the witch spells better sure seem impossible.
In a world where this wasn't a gacha game maybe, but I've been trying to build a holy damage team for months and haven't gotten a single offensive soul break for it. I don't expect this to be any different.
I have no idea! I don't really know exactly how the chain soul breaks work, though I did just find out something interesting. Shantotto's CSB has a kind of hidden effect, which people are calling a field effect. It adds 20% damage to all Lightning abilities (the type of ability is of course going to be different for different CSBs, and the amount might be different too) used during the chain duration. This notably includes the entry of the CSB itself, since the chain count includes the hits from the CSB. This makes it somewhat easier to get your 6-hit Witch abilities to exceed the 19998 damage that a Chain-ga can reach. Using the Witch abilities would give 8 points to the chain counter, as opposed to the 4 you would get from two Chain-gas, and as I said I'm not sure exactly how much that matters.
The field effect is only 12s though, I thought.
Pretty sure the entire chain effect is only 12s, including the field effect. Chain-gas are probably still better almost all of the time, and making the Witch abilities better is going to be difficult to achieve without having a lot of specific relics and some very good timing. I am going to wait to decide on the viability of the new school until we have some testing results from people playing the Japanese version of the game. It's entirely possible that it only works if you have enElement on the Witch caster and a CSB of that element to work with, in which case it seems pretty non-viable for the majority of people.
Just something new to get people to chase relics, I guess. It's a cool idea at least.
Discord saying it's invalid or expired.
It was only for 30 min as a test. Would a permanent one be better? Or else just PM me and I'll make a new one.
Got it, I'll work on it in an hour or so.
E: https://discord.gg/mNKVTKf should work. There doesn't seem to be a password function near as I can see, unless someone can point me in the right direction.
Read the last few pages of the previous thread. I used five characters all contributing damage, 4 with water.. IIRC, Tyro and Y'shtola black, Yuffie ninja/medica, Agrias spellblade/debuff, Ramza FB/MB, RW Shout. Take a look at my post on page 96.
This is starting to seem like a bad ROI.
Buuut first I need to do my run of FFVII, and then get a hard drive for my PS3 so I can play my copy of FFX and X-2.
Got to try out Fang's SSB for the first time and that's a good SB right there
e: but looking ahead at the U++ the boss nulls both fire and wind, RIP
I echo everyone's comments about what a pushover Omega is this time around. How new was I, the first time he was a boss? I couldn't scrape together the orbs for two Stops, nor did I have two WHMs with BLM 3*. Long long time ago.
This time around, my two RW summoners (Garnet, Kefka) had 800 and 720 MAG, and thanks to Yda (who brought Power and Mental Breakdown) my Stoppers (Lenna, Relm) had ~800 MND apiece.
I could do it again with Yuffie instead of Yda, packing Power Breakdance and Ninja Lightning, but I don't have a honed Chain Thundaga for Lulu nor do I have a honed 4* Lightning summon for Garnet. But if I had to do it, that's an easy path to victory as well, just a longer one.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
But I have Eiko's and a 'complete' shout setup with enough synergy for almost every realm so it's a hard pass until III (two weeks)
E: dammit auto correct.
Got my first BSB -- Twin Lance (Squall).
And my second -- Stardust Rod (Terra).
And a second Sentinel's Grimoire.
50 mithril pull got me: Snow's SSB, Sazh's SSB, and Serah's BSB. So 4 relics overall. Pretty good haul. And Serah's BSB is my first mage BSB.
I haven't compared Serah's BSB to other mage relics, but the En-Ice seems good. The next time the Mote dungeons swing back around, I will probably set Serah's BSB as my RW for people who still need the Fire Cavern.
Couple that with Snow's SSB which is also ice damage, and I've suddenly got a pretty strong ice team. Do we have any new ice-vulnerable bosses on the horizon?
If you want me to set my RW back to Laguna's Freezing Barrage, they can be!
Tip: if you aren't keeping him Stopped to death, the big threats are Atomic Rays, Flame Thrower, and Wave Cannon. Bring Instant KO resist to help with Wave Cannon, and stack your magic defenses for the other two, filling in with Fire Resist in any slots you don't have IKO resist. Of course, you have to balance that with Blind resist so your people that don't have Lifesiphons can still hit. :P
edit:
I think someone once mentioned the idea of having Smitening still use Chaincharge instead of Lifesiphon + Full Charge, and just equip Ace Striker and use Smite whenever it comes up.
If I were to do that, which of Powerchain or Full Charge should I hone form R2 to R3 first? My first instinct is Full Charge, as I'd want more of those, to use with Smite.
...not that I can do either one right now; my MWO stock is too low.
I use it on basically every physical team since it's great and everyone has combat 5.
Power chain is good and I use it a lot as well, but it's no full charge.
Now I have two Support characters, but that's really going to cut into my damage options.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I nearly always run two Support characters and I have little issue with pushing out enough damage. Being able to bring Armor Breakdown can be quite useful. However, if you do not want to run Tyro as a support, he can easily do something like Powerchain + Full Charge, Dark Bargain + Full Charge, Dark Bargain + Dragoon Jump or Blood of the Wyvern + Dragoon Jump. This might be temporarily out of reach due to not enough 5* orbs, but it is something to consider for the future. Another thing he can do is run Ninja magic, which is pretty cheap, potentially paired with Protectga or Shellga. Still, it's not necessarily a bad idea to run two Support characters, it lets you stack Full Break, Power Breakdown, Magic Breakdown and Armor Breakdown which is a lot of mitigation and boosting of damage for everybody else on your team.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Step up your game, Cores! You're keeping me from working on my A-Team during Sundaily!
Personally, I almost always run with a 5* Support and a secondary Support character. That secondary could be a WHM with 4* Support (Y'shtola, Rosa), a character with a dual break SB (Gordon, Barret, etc.) or even non-Support characters with breakdown SBs (Vaan, Noel, Auron, Rikku). Thieves can also work pretty well as your second support character, since the Steal Power/Defense skills work like the Breakdowns do, plus access to Mug Bloodlust is pretty nice.
Cores get egged to 50/65, I ain't got the patience to try to drag them through Sundaily
They still gotta drop MC 1b and 2, respectively.
Sundaily is for real characters at level 50+ who need XP; characters who need RMs to drop get to do the first 10 dungeons of each event, plus the fourth and fifth slot of daily dungeon teams.
If you really don't want to waste XP on someone while trying to get their RM to drop, there's always Break.
Yeah I'm using Break.
Char 1 is Core White Mage with auto-Draw Fire. If he isn't flattened by attacks, he gets petrified.
Char 2 has Break for WM, and Ruinga
Char 3 is Core Monk with Luneth's EXP Materia, so he's in he party for the least amount of time possible.
Char 4 has AoE to actually kill things.
Char 5 is Noel healing, to get him started from 50-65.
If WM drops her RM2 I can trim it down to three or two people, but for now this works.