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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Brexit, Pursued by a Blair
RMS Oceanic
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So this archipelago
Has these nations.
These nations are almost completely not unique in that they're run by a system known as Politics!
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Run by this Lady.
These folk would rather she didn't.
The Issues
So after the most unrepresentative general election in history, as I'll let CGP Grey explain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9rGX91rq5I
A major constitutional decision was put to a straight up/down vote for questionable reasons of internal party politics, and it backfired cataclysmically because of milquetoast Remain campaigning and relentless criminally irresponsible bullshit. I'll also let CGP Grey explain what the current situation is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_I2rfApYk
There are some other issues like Theresa May's downplaying of Climate Change as part of her reshuffle and Jeremy Hunt still being a dick to the NHS, but Brexit dominates the political landscape.
There's also an attempt to oust Robespierre from the National Convention, but the sans-culottes seem to be rallying to protect him even if he won't actually give them Bread and the Constitution of 1793 because his own sense of virtue is more important. This risks a Federalist Revolt. Robespierre is triumphant and is striving to create his Nation of Virtue, all the while the Comte d'Artois has secured Paris and is vascilating on how to handle the continental system.
And of course we now have to see what happens in light of the Trumpscendance.
A spiffing place to keep up to date with the latest developments.
An Poblacht na hÉireann
Okay, as someone who actually lives in the Republic of Ireland Desktop Hippie did an infinitely better job than I did explaining things, so I'm gonna pilfer this goldmine of a post to give you a lay of the land.
And this image probably sums up what Ireland thinks about the world right now
A shockin' good place to see what the feck the craic is.
So, discuss the goings on in the Dail and the Commons!
Has these nations.
These nations are almost completely not unique in that they're run by a system known as Politics!
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Run by this Lady.
These folk would rather she didn't.
The Issues
So after the most unrepresentative general election in history, as I'll let CGP Grey explain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9rGX91rq5IA major constitutional decision was put to a straight up/down vote for questionable reasons of internal party politics, and it backfired cataclysmically because of milquetoast Remain campaigning and relentless criminally irresponsible bullshit. I'll also let CGP Grey explain what the current situation is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_I2rfApYkThere are some other issues like Theresa May's downplaying of Climate Change as part of her reshuffle and Jeremy Hunt still being a dick to the NHS, but Brexit dominates the political landscape.
There's also an attempt to oust Robespierre from the National Convention, but the sans-culottes seem to be rallying to protect him even if he won't actually give them Bread and the Constitution of 1793 because his own sense of virtue is more important. This risks a Federalist Revolt. Robespierre is triumphant and is striving to create his Nation of Virtue, all the while the Comte d'Artois has secured Paris and is vascilating on how to handle the continental system.
And of course we now have to see what happens in light of the Trumpscendance.
A spiffing place to keep up to date with the latest developments.
An Poblacht na hÉireann
Okay, as someone who actually lives in the Republic of Ireland Desktop Hippie did an infinitely better job than I did explaining things, so I'm gonna pilfer this goldmine of a post to give you a lay of the land.
Desktop Hippie wrote:Okay then, let's add a little Hiberno to the Hiberno-Britannic Politics thread! Because I've been keeping quiet lately but there's actually a fair bit happening over here.
As @RMS Oceanic Said in the OP, this chap
is Enda Kenny, An Taoiseach, the Irish version of Prime Minister of An Poblacht na hÉireann. However, he's had a pretty bad week and is facing calls to step down, because quitting is all the rage these days.
To understand the situation better, I need to go over the last Irish General Election.
It was a mess.
Here's a rundown of the main contenders:
You had Fianna Gael, who were in power and very unpopular due to their mismanagement of a number of different austerity measures and because they pushed ahead with the EU stipulation that Ireland had to bring in water charges, something most other European countries have (including the UK.) The issue of water charges has been a huge one in Ireland, with many who have been struggling with lower wages, higher taxes and an increased cost of living seeing it as the final straw and refusing outright to pay.
You had Labour, who helped Fianna Gael with all this, despite the fact that they're SUPPOSED TO BE A FUCKING LABOUR PARTY!
You had Fianna Fáil, arch enemies of Fianna Gael and the party who were in power before and during the 2008 financial crisis, who also drove our economy headlong into the worst of it, which lead to all the crap Fianna Gael has done since - something Fianna Gael are very keen to point out.
You had The Green Party, who helped Fianna Fáil to do all this, despite the fact that they're SUPPOSED TO BE A FUCKING GREEN PARTY!
You had Sinn Féin, growing in popularity in working class Dublin and various areas of the country by setting themselves up as the anti-corruption "honest" party, railing against the politicians who took bribes from Ben Dunne while hoping nobody pointed out that they had kidnapped him.
You had the Social Democrats, a small left wing outfit who are quickly becoming the choice for voters sick of the irony of having a right of center Labour party.
You had Renua, who were... honestly, Mrs. Lovejoy pretty much covers it.
You had People Before Profit and the Anti Austerity Alliance. Both parties do exactly what it says on the tin.
And you had independents. Lots and lots and LOTS of independents, who range from this guy...
Shane Ross, voice of the middle-to-upper-middle class who see themselves as the real victims of the 2008 financial crisis. To be fair, they're not entirely wrong. The collapse in the value of bank shares meant that many who had spent their entire lives working and were getting ready for a nice, comfy retirement saw their pensions obliterated overnight and instead find themselves having to grind through their golden years clinging to their jobs and living hand-to-mouth. They absolutely have caused to be pissed off, but they do tend to wear a bit on the nerves of someone who has to sit in a sodden adult nappy in their wheelchair for hours on end because their home care visits have been cut back to two half hours every day.
...to this guy
Mick Wallace, voice of lower-to-middle class who campaigns against austerity, against overpunitive drug policy and against discrimination against women - making him one of the few who will tackle the abortion issue head on - while quietly hoping that nobody remembers that he's a well off property developer.
Oh and you also had these guys
Michael and Danny Healy-Rae, who represent the all important Kerry farmers vote. Because of course they do.
"Gosh, Desktop Hippie!" you say! "What a web of interests and intrigue! Who won the election?"
That's the problem. Nobody.
Well, Fianna Gael juuuuust about managed to keep a majority despite losing a bunch of seats, but it wasn't enough to form a government and while many other parties gained significant ground, none of them had enough to form a government either. After the longest gap between an election and the formation of a government in the history of the Irish State (lasting over 50 days!) Fianna Gael eventually hammered out a deal with Shane Ross and his Independent Alliance, a group of six independent TDs (the Irish version of MPs) who agreed to club together as a sort of minority party in exchange for focus on their various raisons d'être and seats on the cabinet. This is exactly as stable a government as you're probably imagining it to be.
So, the election was in February of this year and we finally got a government at the end of April. What's happened since then?
Well, Fianna Fáil have continued to gain ground with people who are willing to forgive the whole destroying-the-economy thing if they promise to be good TDs and never do it again, especially since Fianna Gael are coming across as dangerously unstable in the fragile post-Brexit days. To tackle Brexit head on, Enda Kenny decided to set up an all-island forum focusing entirely on Brexit and the fallout. However, he sort of forgot to tell First Minister and DUP Leader Arlene Foster about it in advance. Needless to say, this went down like a lead balloon. Adding to this, there was a vote on the hugely controversial issue of abortion (still illegal in Ireland, don't get me started) in which Enda allowed his Independent ministers a free vote, which drew sharp criticism.
The biggest problem though? He fired the Deputy Leader of Fianna Gael, went through a selection process to choose a new Deputy Leader and has decided to go with... the guy he fired.
Feeling better about Theresa May yet?
And this image probably sums up what Ireland thinks about the world right now
A shockin' good place to see what the feck the craic is.
So, discuss the goings on in the Dail and the Commons!
RMS Oceanic on
+17
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
Also, OH GOD.
If you were hoping for Farage to get his comeuppence sometime in the near future, you are going to be disappointed. He feels plenty big enough to threaten marches against the high court, toss insults across the pond and generally act like he owns the place.
So hurrah. If you were feeling the US had taken over pole position in the international dunce race you should remember Farage is still the UK politician who gets more airtime than any other and our representative on the international stage is Boris Johnson.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Didn't mention our innovative jams and marmalades that will lead to successful Brexit.
The government quickly denied that Farage will be a go between. And Farage gets a lot of press because of what he says.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
In happier news Timmy of the Lib Dems was in radio4 this morning and managed to come across as sounding super reasonable and competent in the face of some quite hard grilling.
Which is hilarious when you think of places like Google, PayPal and eBay moving their European HQ's to Trumpmerica to sit beside their American HQs.
Timmy is pretty competent and reasonable - though it seems that what you need to win things these days is some unreasonable fire/charisma/shouting.
Theresa May is complaining that her campaign for Parliamentary Sovereignty may be scuppered by Parliament asserting their Sovereignty.
Farage continues to be awful.
It's no coincidence the most successful Labour leader was also the most charismatic and media friendly.
Who then focused on that aspect to such a degree he soured the left on the concept so thoroughly nearly two decades later we're still feeling it.
Nicola Sturgeon continuing to be one of my favourite British politicians.
FOR
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
yeah, you haven't seen The World's End!!! for shame!!
Article 50 notice could be reversed, government may argue in Brexit case
So not only is negotiation time on Article 50 extendable, it can also be withdrawn, The Government believes. If that argument is made in the UK Supreme Court, surely that would get appealed to the European Court of Justice to adjudicate? It has consequences not only for UK law but also EU treaties and so can't simply be a matter the UK courts can resolve.
Prepare for an interesting few months...
"Can we stop this fuck up if it's clear that we can't deliver on any of our promises"
Yeah that's exactly what it is. The main decision in the High Court case was that triggering Article 50 would guarantee the removal of rights for UK citizens and repeal previously made laws (1972 European Communities Act) just not within a fixed timeframe. If the UK Government can successfully argue that triggering Article 50 is actually more akin to commencing discussions with the EU on the proposed withdrawal from the Union, that would fall in line with foreign policy which the Government can action using its prerogative powers. In that sense, I think that's actually a very savvy argument to make. However, as we've said other EU members would be highly critical of such a decision and would almost certainly want to get involved.
Unless you're Boris, Fox and Davis, of course.
In the High Court case, The Government tried to argue (unsuccessfully) that because the Acts that legitimised treaties into UK law had not clearly specified that Government could not use its prerogative powers to withdraw from said treaties, the Government could act as it saw fit and not seek the approval of Parliament. Using that thought process, Article 50 does not expressly restrict the exiting country from withdrawing their notification to leave the European Union at any point during the negotiations. Therefore, the Government could argue that because it doesn't explicitly rule this out, it must be an option.
Now, should the Government take that stance and make that argument (which I have 0% experience in assuming they will), then it could all really depend on whatever precedent(s) exist. If they do take that stance, it must be because they believe such reasonable precedent exists that supports their argument.
Again, not an expert!
The guy who actually wrote article 50 is of this opinion, and it seems like that should count for something.
But - sorry, Americans - it does feel kind of good to no longer be responsible for the biggest political fuck up of 2016.
There's a daily mash article that is probably the best I've read that says the same thing
It's funny because I actually feel this way
Brexit seems fucking quaint at this point.
Of course this is not ideal from the uk's point of view. The decision rests entirely with the eu, so they could decide to vote yes anyway and britain would be left holding the bag.
wonder if they'll update it to include Robert Vaugh's death as one of the reasons.
Oh what the fuck
Can we finally put to bed the idea that the tories are the party of economic stability and responsibility?