Marvel Studios’ Thor: Ragnarok and Warner Bros.’ DC film Justice League is bigger than just the box office. It’s a fight for comic supremacy.
On the Warners/DC side, the mood is about as jovial as a party thrown by the Joker. While Ragnarok is just the latest in a string of film hits for the Kevin Feige-led Marvel Studios, Warner Bros. is desperately hoping to continue the momentum from its first big success, this summer’s Wonder Woman ($821 million worldwide).
"If a B character from Marvel shut downs and outperforms the A team from DC, that’s an embarrassment," a Justice League insider tells The Hollywood Reporter, adding, "It’s going to be a stressful weekend for some [Warners] execs."
For Warner Bros., Justice League is tracking for a $110 million debut, dramatically behind the massive $166 million Batman v. Superman grossed in March 2016. And inside Warners, expectations are muted for Justice League, which has received very mixed reviews from top critics. The film's tumultuous shoot included Zack Snyder exiting following a family tragedy and Joss Whedon stepping in to oversee extensive reshoots that cost millions. Sources say the studio has higher hopes for the solo movie Aquaman, which hits theaters Dec. 21, 2018.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
The really stupid part in all of this is that literally everyone saw this coming. Everyone. Even Ben Affleck saw it coming.
The only people who didn't see this coming are the people who greenlit and made this whole fiasco.
The really stupid part in all of this is that literally everyone saw this coming. Everyone. Even Ben Affleck saw it coming.
The only people who didn't see this coming are the people who greenlit and made this whole fiasco.
It's times like this that I wonder whether these people watch movies, including ones they make. Despite going to screenings of their own movies it's like they've never seen a movie in its natural habitat, and then they wonder why their movies end up getting wrecked by Thor.
It's a shame too, they maybe could've righted the ship with good word of mouth but I'm hearing "fun but hollow" which isn't much better than "dreary and not fun."
I'll do the same as I did for Suicide Squad and watch it later on Redbox, with friends willing to MST3K commentary our way through it
I generally think execs watch and enjoy, but don't understand how to make movies. It's the only reason why you would give Whedon £25m plus for reshoots, and only afterwards lay down the law that the film has to be under two hours.
I generally think execs watch and enjoy, but don't understand how to make movies. It's the only reason why you would give Whedon £25m plus for reshoots, and only afterwards lay down the law that the film has to be under two hours.
That's definitely part of it, they're gamblers and bureaucrats not artists.
edit: At least they had good sense to hire Whedon for Justice League, they needed the safest of bets to get this far. I'm intrigued what the train wreck would have looked like had Snyder been in total control. IIRC WW's screen time ballooned with Whedon. He might have made Flash murder people at super speed.
I don't think this was a better overall movie than Wonder Woman, however this is the most excited I've ever been leaving the theater from a DC movie. Wonder Woman hit its paces better from start to finish, but I think Justice League had a higher ceiling and showed DC can do the team-up thing well - color me surprised.
Good and bad thoughts:
Act 1 = zzzzz. I really didn't care about the big bad in this. It didn't help that his mo-cap face was probably worse than Apoc in X-Men, but he was also just generic and bland and the Unity story is a convoluted mess. Seriously, all that stuff with the boxes just felt like gibberish to me, and I'm a nerd that watches all this stuff and reads some comics like Infinite Crisis. It almost felt like DC was trying to beat Marvel to the punch with Thanos, which is a huge mistake that I think leads to the other issues...
As much as Marvel rightfully gets crap for re-telling a lot of the same general arcs over and over, they do it because it sets up the characters. It's not about the stories, it's about the characters. DC should've set up its characters better. Flash should've had his own movie before JL. Probably Cyborg and Aquaman too, but definitely Flash. He holds this movie together. Without him, it would've been another dreary Snyder film.
Act 2 = awesome. This is the best the DC movies have ever felt, and it's a shame that it was rushed into 45 minutes. The Flash coming to terms with being a real hero and not just pushing people. Cyborg doing... stuff? Aquaman using his power, the one time in the entire movie. Batman being a jerk. And most importantly, Superman fucking everyone up. I know we already had a movie about whether Superman was a villain to Earthlings or not, but I think the first JL movie should've been entirely about them bringing Pet Cemetery Superman back and trying to corral him. Yeah, the ending of that movie would be super predictable with Lois talking him into normalcy again, but still... seeing him unnerved and the damage he can do to other super heroes is awesome. Plus it feels like there should have been a more residual negative effect from being brought back, than just 15 minutes of memory loss. JL vs Superman was the best part of the movie, imo and I wish it'd been fleshed out more.
It also had some interesting thoughts, like Batman calling out Wonder Woman for not being an active leader. And the Cyborg-Flash bromance over being accidents was good and deserved more time.
Act 3 = mixed, but mostly good. The fighting was certainly better than Doomsday, and I like that the fear bug humanoid dudes turned on Classic Rock Band villain. But again, still don't care that much about him or the mother boxes. Plus it was kind of like LotR-lite.
And about the mother boxes... I know I'm an immature 12 year old at heart and they're called mother boxes in the comics, but they really should've changed the name for the movie. I think I heard 3 or 4 other chuckles in the theater when they talked about everyone coming to the mother box.
So yeah, it was like a B. Like I stated above, I don't understand DC's strategy with the EU because it felt like there were movies that should've come before this one. But I am glad they could mostly pull off an exciting movie. This is my conjecture, but it did feel like you could tell which parts Zach Snyder worked closely on and which parts were during his break from the movie. The first act, especially, was riddled with overdramatic shots and really stupid dialog that you could tell were meant to seem cool, but actually made no sense or were really superficial - a lot of people looking back over their shoulder saying dramatic one-liners.
As for the box office discussion, I asked the ticket seller and she said they had only sold 11%. That's abysmal. It's a little bit apples and oranges, but when I saw Thor the theater was mostly packed. This really did look like an 11% turnout by the time the movie started.
What was the "reactionary" terrorists deal? I didn't know message they were trying to send or goal they were trying accomplish by blowing up that building.
Other than that that scene was a high light , Wonder Woman kicking ass like a traditional super-hero.
It was
Uhhh
Very obvious at times that Gal Gadot was pregnant during the filming of this
Hmm, pregnant during the reshoots, I assume?
If so, you'd think Whedon could deal with that better. Wasn’t ScarJo pregnant during AoU filming?
Gadot hadn't told anyone.
They all knew (constantly rushing off between takes to throw up would have raised some suspicions, and they were sure to always have something conveniently around to use as a bucket if needed), but if the actress doesn't want you to acknowledge it, it's hard to suggest ways to film around something.
Cut and paste post from Spoonyman, of SuperHeroHype on which director shot which scenes for Justice League.
Snyder Cut Vs. Whedon Cut.
-superman in the cell phone footage is Whedon
- intro with Batman was Whedon, same with Batman in the plane talking to Alfred
- World without Hope montage was Snyder. The Lois bit with the empty bed next to her is actually from a later point in the movie repurposed for this
- Snyder original cut had the World without Hope montage go straight into Batman meeting with Aquaman in the village which went on longer as well. Same with their conversation after as Aquaman swims off
- Deleted Snyder scene with Martha and Lois talking in the apartment.
- Wonder Woman sequence in London is mostly all Snyder but trimmed down as the original had her taking out all the bad guys and additional slow-mo. Snyder loves his close up to convey information as there's a close up of the lead bad guy changing the gun from single to automatic mode after Wonder Woman stops the first bullet. Reshoots did add dialogue between Wonder Woman and lead bad guy before she stops all the bullets. This reshoot had everything finished to get it ready for the movie so I suspect this will be in extended version
- this cuts into the Amazonian which is Snyder and mostly not changed. A scene they removed was an Amazon being turned into a demon during Steppenwolf initial encounter. She kills herself before the transformation finishes. This shot was finished so maybe extended version
- anything with the russian family is Whedon
- Cyborgs dad talking to the janitor at Star Labs was Whedon
- Cyborg intro with his dad is a longer scene as well and Snyder . The scene starts with him looking at the people walking around the streets enjoying their lives as he looks on with envy.
- Wonder Woman meeting up with Batman while he repairs the jet was Snyder, them discussing the nature of the motherboxes on the Lake was Whedon.
- Thousand year battle is mostly the same in Snyder version, there was a back and forth between adding more focus on the Green Lantern or not. Darkseid actually showed up here as a visual stand in for Steppenwolf as one point the model wasn't quite ready yet.
- Flash scene filling out the forms and visiting his dad is Snyder
- Batman meeting Flash was Snyder. Whedon added 'people are slow, I'll try to keep up' bit
- Aquaman saving the man out in the sea was originally the end montage footage repurposed to here and it was Snyder. I believe the bits of him dumping the guy at the bar is Snyder as well
- Aquaman coming back as Steppenwolf tries and succeed in taking the motherbox is Snyder still. The only real change up is when Aquaman and Mera have a discussion which again went on longer and was a mix of both Snyder, Whedon and Wan as Aquaman was filming at the time
The discussion between Mera and Aquaman was deleted at some point and I believe someone fought hard for this to come back in the edit which I'm glad they kept in.
- janitor being taken by the demon is Snyder
- Woman on tv about her missing husband, Lois/Martha at the daily planet is Whedon
- Cyborg calling out to meet Wonder Woman and their meeting on the streets is mostly Snyder. There may be some minor bits with Cyborg as a reshoot but unsure. Alfred line about date night may have been ADR later
- Cyborg dad being kidnapped by demon to Gordon in the station to the gang meeting up on the roof and then heading to the sewers is Snyder but trimmed by a few seconds.
- Wonder Woman talking about 'doing this together as a team' and Cyborg 'didn't think you were real' were cut
- Flash panicking and Batman encouraging him to save one person is Whedon
- Cyborg saving his dad is mostly the same so Snyder.
- Wonder Woman openly taunts Steppenwolf was cut before shoving him through the wall. The fight is Snyder with added Whedon dialogue as Wonder Woman looks pissed Steppenwolf mentioned his axe having amazon blood on it.
- Flash interrupts Batman as he fights the demons, this is where the dodge sequence occurred and later cut. There was an attempt to keep it in for many versions with even a reshoot element of Flash saying 'I thought we were suppose to do this together!' Flash pushing the demon through the wall was later repurposed as Cyborg doing it. Most likely will not be extended version
- I believe Batman yells at Flash to ensure the Star Labs people are out with Cyborgs help as a demon starts to overpower Batman
- Scene with Cyborg getting people out as Flash looks on is cut
- the Flash getting people out one at a time is Whedon as is Cyborg dad explaining to him that they're after the box as Cyborg shoots a demon (repurposed from earlier)
- Batman fighting the demon on the higher level is Snyder with the WW fight still the same.
- Steppenwolf throws WW to the wall and then charges his axe at her which she dodges, this attack causes a chain reaction in which the building starts to crumble on the outside and there's now falling debris which leds towards a cut of the Star Labs people outside with the Flash. He see the debris falling so he uses his speed to punch the debris out of the way from the people but somehow misses the last big piece in which Cyborg shoots it out of the way. This was cut and in the original trailer:
This sequence had mostly finished VFX but I doubt you will see this in extended
- Batman saying 'my turn' is Snyder and is cut replaced with 'I didn't bring a sword' and 'he's tall' is Whedon.
- Cyborg asking Flash to go check on the others is cut. VFX was finished as well
- Flash helping WW with her sword is Snyder. Face plant joke after is Whedon
- Whedon reshoot of Flash replying with 'does he mean me?' when Steppenwolf mentions the Old Gods blood is cut
- WW doing her arm thing, Flash being taken by the demons, Cyborg taking over the vehicle and shooting at Steppenwolf and the flood is Snyder
- Reshot element from Wan of Aquaman emerging from the water to kick Steppenwolf before turning back to try to help slow down the flooding.
- 'did he just bail?' is ADR in, not part of Snyder original cut.
- Meeting up with Gordon and Cyborg coming back with the box is Snyder. Some scenes trimmed down
- Steppenwolf speech about finding the last box is mostly the same in Snyder.
- The gang going to the Batcave is Whedon, there was an extended scene with Flash and Alfred and Flash hugs Alfred some reason.
- The gang talking about the nature of the boxes and bringing back Superman is Whedon. Gal was not available during this time as she was doing press tour for Wonder Woman so her double was her stand in and even did some acting and that bit with her hitting Batman. In the wide shots if you look carefully you can still see that it's not Gal.
The footage of Gal was shot on a later date with green screen and composited in
- Batman talking to Alfred about Superman was Whedon
- Batman overlooking the ship is Snyder. Batman talking to Wonder Woman about the plan overlooking the kryptonian ship is Whedon
- the Lois shot from earlier in the opening montage movie was a part of this sequence as Alfred attempts to call her as well. Snyder
- break into the kryptonian ship was a longer, Cyborgs dad fakes a code red to get everyone out of the lab so the gang can get in without any major issues. There was some more additional dialogue with Flash and Aquaman. Snyder with a small chance that this may be in the extended
- preparing Superman body for the ship is Snyder.
- deleted scene - Cyborg having a premonition during his countdown. During the count of 'one' he starts to see things of possibly future events such as the end of the League, knightmare world and more importantly Darkseid.
- Superman resurrection and battle with the league members is mostly Snyder with bits trimmed down.
- Flash mentioning 'pet semenetary' is Whedon
- Flash actively tries to kick Superman during their fight which was cut
- Anytime Superman is talking during this is Whedon, even 'do you bleed?'
- Batman making a quip about if he's bleeding is Whedon
- Steppenwolf stealing the last box is the same in all versions
- Superman coming home to his farm with Lois is Snyder.
- Gang discussing their plan of attack now is Whedon
- Batman and Wonder Woman talking about leadership and her fixing his arm is all Whedon
- Superman talking about the ring is Snyder and cut. Superman talking to Lois in the field is Whedon. Not sure if Martha showing up to meet her son is Whedon or Snyder
- Steppenwolf preparing the unification is the same in all versions
- Cyborg finding the location is Whedon which leads to the gang getting on the ship is Snyder
- deleted scene of Superman coming back to the kryptonian ship and getting his suit back. VFX was finished so maybe extended version
- Aquaman with the lasso of Truth is all Whedon, Gal again wasn't here so body double in the wide shot with Gal elements being shot later
- Batman taking down the shield and the league helping each other out to reach Steppenwolf is Snyder. Close up of Wonder Woman smiling is a Whedon as well Batman making quips during this scene
- Deleted scenes - showing various people around the worlds reacting to the unification process as red skies and lightening start to happen (Martha/Lois, Cyborg Dad, Gordon, Aquaman village at the beginning, london and so forth)
- Trailer scene with Wonder Woman saying 'shall we?' with Aquaman and Cyborg was adjusted. 'Shall we' was cut and replaced with the new Whedon line
- Cyborg and Flash stuff here is mostly now all Whedon
- Batman telling Flash to get people to safety is Whedon
- lots of Wonder Woman and Aquaman fighting are adjusted or reordered but still Snyder
- Superman coming back is all Whedon. There was a wide shot of Superman during the 'I like truth' which was removed but the final edit of how it plays out is better in my opinion
- Superman with the slow mo punch dodge is Snyder. As before anything with Superman talking is Whedon during this finale
- Original previs was Wonder Woman cutting off Steppenwolf head but later changed. Steppenwolf demise was reworked a few times
- Steppenwolf fear demise through the boomtube is Whedon
- there was concept art showing the trinity looking through the end of the boomtube revealing Darkseid. Unsure if this element was ever filmed as the movie itself never had it in any version I saw.
- The slow mo shot of all of them with Flash fist bumping Cyborg is Snyder
- close up with the trinity is three different elements composited together as the actors were not available at the same time.
- the end montage is Snyder (yes, even that weird run Flash does) with Whedon element being Wonder Woman stopping the robbery in London
THE END
Flash doing the race with Superman = Whedon
Lex discussing forming their own league = Snyder
My main thought which was a better version:
- I believe that Snyder original version was more leading towards a UC style edit like BvS as I felt there was a lot of moments for the movie to breath but with some wtf ness in characters moments (flash basically standing around and doing nothing when he could do stuff) where as I feel Whedon had a lot more character beats and dialogue between them to punch it up.
- I'm not too sure if there will be an extended version but if there was I can easily see an additional 10-20 minutes.
Thought the opening scene with Superman with the cell phone was Whedon.
What is it with Snyder and having Superman mute in every scene? He doesn't do this with any other character.
The Whedon stuff is easy to tell because of the bad CGI moustache removal.
A lot of the Whedon stuff in there is as bad as the Snyder stuff, especially htat "I didn't bring a sword" quip.
I agree it's not his best work, but without it the film would have suffered more than it already did. His scenes bought some levity, humanity and badly needed dialogue.
His first scene alone with Superman in the intro was more like Superman has been like in the movies for years.
The movie just came out. I know we’re talking small snippets of lines here, but how about we keep to spoilers for movie content at least a little longer?
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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WearingglassesOf the friendly neighborhood varietyRegistered Userregular
Just saw it.
It was a fun romp, but yeah, "fun but hollow" seems apt - story was pretty boilerplate, there wasn't much of an ongoing theme running besides "bad guy must be stopped" (that I noticed, at least), the villain was as bad (maybe even worse) than Marvel's bad villains. There are a lot of cool bits though!
It was a fun romp, but yeah, "fun but hollow" seems apt - story was pretty boilerplate, there wasn't much of an ongoing theme running besides "bad guy must be stopped" (that I noticed, at least), the villain was as bad (maybe even worse) than Marvel's bad villains. There are a lot of cool bits though!
Unfortunatly, with the current glut of superhero media, "occasional cool bits" doesnt cut it. Had it come out back in the early 2000's with all those mediocre superhero movies, we'd be crapping our pants over it. As it is, it's not nearly good enough for the property.
The DCEU is running at a loss, so even good movies like WW aren't going to be enough to salvage it.
I'm betting they go for a soft-reboot with Flashpoint to cut the parts that don't work and justify the things they want to change (like replacing Batman).
I generally think execs watch and enjoy, but don't understand how to make movies. It's the only reason why you would give Whedon £25m plus for reshoots, and only afterwards lay down the law that the film has to be under two hours.
Executives don't care about making movies, they care about making money. And nobody knows how to make money - not Whedon, not the executives, not anyone else (except James Cameron). The executives are at least trying, though. Pointing out that they don't have a clue how to make movies is neither here nor there. Suicide Squad was one of the top 5 shittiest films I've seen in my entire life, and that thing made hella money. Executives love that movie, and for good reason, from their point of view.
The nepotism doesn't help. No one who had earned their position based on talent would have looked at Zach Snyder's filmography and said "This guy. That's the guy to anchor a cinematic universe based on some of our most valuable IPs."
Well except his wife.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
"If a B character from Marvel shut downs and outperforms the A team from DC, that’s an embarrassment," a Justice League insider tells The Hollywood Reporter, adding, "It’s going to be a stressful weekend for some [Warners] execs."
I was about to go all "Hey! Thor's not..." and then I realized "Well, yeah, if only because his movies have been kinda meh."
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
"If a B character from Marvel shut downs and outperforms the A team from DC, that’s an embarrassment," a Justice League insider tells The Hollywood Reporter, adding, "It’s going to be a stressful weekend for some [Warners] execs."
I was about to go all "Hey! Thor's not..." and then I realized "Well, yeah, if only because his movies have been kinda meh."
Which is why Thor Ragnarok was so good. That outperformed all of his previous movies in quality and profits (taking a guess on that last part)
Really surprised Justice League isn't doing that well. Like, I didn't plan to see it in theaters and saw it took a ratings it, but I didn't expect to see it doing this bad.
The nepotism doesn't help. No one who had earned their position based on talent would have looked at Zach Snyder's filmography and said "This guy. That's the guy to anchor a cinematic universe based on some of our most valuable IPs."
Well except his wife.
I dunno. I think there's an IP or style out there that Snyder is good at.
The Justice League - Superman - ain't it though.
This really looks like a guy who directed Watchmen and seriously thought he was making a straight laced hero movie rather than a deconstruction. And I liked Watchmen.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Calling Thor a B character and being worried about being outearned by a “this guy” by Warner Brothers is just another reason that studio and Snyder just doesn’t get it.
Thor 3 isn’t just Thor 3.
It’s “what happened to Hulk?” “Will Hela have an Infinity Gem!?” “Are they gonna meet the Guardians of the Galaxy?” and then Thor films specifically “What happened between Odin and Loki?” “ What’s going to happen with Odin and Loki” and of course “OH Fuck! She broke the hammer in the trailer!”
There’s a lot of expectation and excitement built up for this film from everything that’s come before it building up to the infinity war. It’s not just “a Thor movie” it’s the next link in a chain.
Which isn’t to say they couldn’t have made a good Justice League movie without lots of lead in.
But it would have been a hell of a lot easier if everyone was a known character and we’d had more background on Apokolips, Darkseid, and maybe some kind of you know plot beyond “Me invade earth now, because reasons.”
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Justice League on the whole was good. It was DC's the Avengers, only with better fights, on the whole better cinematography, with generic villain and end of world plot combined with bad forced Marvel humor and wonky CGI. It wasn't as jarring as was I expecting. Henry Cavill's weird face (I just chalk it up to him being british a boom rekt like what) is Justice League's version of Captain America's shitty Avengers 1 costume; you try to look around or hope it goes away or your eyes will adjust but it just doesn't.
Liked:
-Aquaman worked, and setting him up as lost between two worlds was quick and to the point in setting up his movie. If they're never going to bring in Hawkman just make him the more savage character of the team. He should have stabbed more things
-the Themyscria scenes were really good, highlight of the movie. I particularly liked the keep away scene, it was something new, from the Amazons collapsing the mountain onward. Plus the flashback (talk about fake twitter outrage over the amazon dress holy shit was that nothing) with the Green Lantern and the old league, that worked well to lightly establish other roots in the DCEU.
-Cyborg: they're basically mixing him with John Stewart to be a bit more stoic but I liked how he wasn't really mopey about being a robot, he was trying to get a hold of it. The actor was nothing worthwhile and the CGI with him outside of wearing the hoodie was bad but I can live with him and this direction.
-hinting at Batman/WW OTP is best option yay Batman/WW :heartbeat:
-How they brought Superman back worked well enough by incorporating the Mother Box. It's a simple enough plot and having Vic be an example of what it can do showed at least something good enough compared to what I was expecting, which was Star Labs dug him up and tinkered with him. What I did like was the subtle use of him not responding to simmer down when he was called Kal-El but being called Clark before Lois got in there as the big gun. Considering how much the previous movies tried to alienate (lolz) this aspect, it's a good way to go back to more TexiKen approach to Superman.
-the team's conflict with each other was better than The Avengers and "the gem made them bicker" setup. It felt more natural and didn't require the team to fight each other outside of some snark. I sort of count fighting Superman in a different light because he was dead and out of it and the 5 did a good job of being a good team before plot required Superman.
-I actually liked the mid-credit and end-credits here, it was the first time outside of GotG that it felt like something worth waiting for. Especially the Flash/Superman race setup.
-Jack Kirby getting a solid call out in the credits away from other creators for creating the Fourth World, I just liked that. DC's always better about credit.
Didn't like:
-it needed to be done but the complete handwave away of the style of the past movies with regards to the heroes was pretty obvious. I'm glad we're to the part where the heroes are appreciated in the DC world, because they are supposed to be more revered than in Marvel's, but the only way it could have been more apparent was to up the color saturation on Superman's suit to 500%.
-Steppenwolf was find but generic, the voice was good, the look reminded me of the BFG and Count Olad put together.
-the rather apparent Watchmen callbacks in the opening credit song, things are bad, get it?
-forced humor. It ruined the good parts like Aquaman sitting on the lasso or Superman seeing Flash when he's fighting the league. Batman doesn't need to be super brooding but he also doesn't need to wisecrack. Who does that guy think he is, Holden McNeill? Hell, he hardly did that in the bwa-ha-ha league. Plus Cyborg and Superman laughing after separating the boxes was just cringey, complete with the "I work with children" line.
-Barry was 75% annoying. He would have an occasional good joke ("I hope this is East", the mid credit race), and he had a good hook in not knowing how to fight, but he looked too young and too naive and too much running his mouth. If it was Wally, it would work better, but someone like Zach Levi would have been better and at least carried the non humor parts better. Even someone like Taylor Kitsch just being boilerplate would have worked better.
-bad CGI in places. The weird almost hair lip Cavill speaks for itself, but it looked like the Snyder choreographed fights were fine, but it was stuff like Batman looking over the Star Labs as Diana showed up behind him, or
-the third (human) mother box kind of just shows up out of nowhere (and gets taken away after Superman is resurrected), especially since if Vic's dad had it at their home why didn't the Parademon get it when he was lurking around, double especially since he had already used it to save Vic.
the movie also had KPop which was a plus. You were in Korea, Avengers 2, and you did nothing with the opportunity. Should have used Boombayah but whatevs. a win's a win.
Justice League on the whole was good. It was DC's the Avengers, only with better fights, on the whole better cinematography, with generic villain and end of world plot combined with bad forced Marvel humor and wonky CGI. It wasn't as jarring as was I expecting. Henry Cavill's weird face (I just chalk it up to him being british a boom rekt like what) is Justice League's version of Captain America's shitty Avengers 1 costume; you try to look around or hope it goes away or your eyes will adjust but it just doesn't.
Liked:
-Aquaman worked, and setting him up as lost between two worlds was quick and to the point in setting up his movie. If they're never going to bring in Hawkman just make him the more savage character of the team. He should have stabbed more things
-the Themyscria scenes were really good, highlight of the movie. I particularly liked the keep away scene, it was something new, from the Amazons collapsing the mountain onward. Plus the flashback (talk about fake twitter outrage over the amazon dress holy shit was that nothing) with the Green Lantern and the old league, that worked well to lightly establish other roots in the DCEU.
-Cyborg: they're basically mixing him with John Stewart to be a bit more stoic but I liked how he wasn't really mopey about being a robot, he was trying to get a hold of it. The actor was nothing worthwhile and the CGI with him outside of wearing the hoodie was bad but I can live with him and this direction.
-hinting at Batman/WW OTP is best option yay Batman/WW :heartbeat:
-How they brought Superman back worked well enough by incorporating the Mother Box. It's a simple enough plot and having Vic be an example of what it can do showed at least something good enough compared to what I was expecting, which was Star Labs dug him up and tinkered with him. What I did like was the subtle use of him not responding to simmer down when he was called Kal-El but being called Clark before Lois got in there as the big gun. Considering how much the previous movies tried to alienate (lolz) this aspect, it's a good way to go back to more TexiKen approach to Superman.
-the team's conflict with each other was better than The Avengers and "the gem made them bicker" setup. It felt more natural and didn't require the team to fight each other outside of some snark. I sort of count fighting Superman in a different light because he was dead and out of it and the 5 did a good job of being a good team before plot required Superman.
-I actually liked the mid-credit and end-credits here, it was the first time outside of GotG that it felt like something worth waiting for. Especially the Flash/Superman race setup.
-Jack Kirby getting a solid call out in the credits away from other creators for creating the Fourth World, I just liked that. DC's always better about credit.
Didn't like:
-it needed to be done but the complete handwave away of the style of the past movies with regards to the heroes was pretty obvious. I'm glad we're to the part where the heroes are appreciated in the DC world, because they are supposed to be more revered than in Marvel's, but the only way it could have been more apparent was to up the color saturation on Superman's suit to 500%.
-Steppenwolf was find but generic, the voice was good, the look reminded me of the BFG and Count Olad put together.
-the rather apparent Watchmen callbacks in the opening credit song, things are bad, get it?
-forced humor. It ruined the good parts like Aquaman sitting on the lasso or Superman seeing Flash when he's fighting the league. Batman doesn't need to be super brooding but he also doesn't need to wisecrack. Who does that guy think he is, Holden McNeill? Hell, he hardly did that in the bwa-ha-ha league. Plus Cyborg and Superman laughing after separating the boxes was just cringey, complete with the "I work with children" line.
-Barry was 75% annoying. He would have an occasional good joke ("I hope this is East", the mid credit race), and he had a good hook in not knowing how to fight, but he looked too young and too naive and too much running his mouth. If it was Wally, it would work better, but someone like Zach Levi would have been better and at least carried the non humor parts better. Even someone like Taylor Kitsch just being boilerplate would have worked better.
-bad CGI in places. The weird almost hair lip Cavill speaks for itself, but it looked like the Snyder choreographed fights were fine, but it was stuff like Batman looking over the Star Labs as Diana showed up behind him, or
-the third (human) mother box kind of just shows up out of nowhere (and gets taken away after Superman is resurrected), especially since if Vic's dad had it at their home why didn't the Parademon get it when he was lurking around, double especially since he had already used it to save Vic.
the movie also had KPop which was a plus. You were in Korea, Avengers 2, and you did nothing with the opportunity. Should have used Boombayah but whatevs. a win's a win.
How does she even know he's called
Kal-El? Did she know him that long in BvS?
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Justice League on the whole was good. It was DC's the Avengers, only with better fights, on the whole better cinematography, with generic villain and end of world plot combined with bad forced Marvel humor and wonky CGI. It wasn't as jarring as was I expecting. Henry Cavill's weird face (I just chalk it up to him being british a boom rekt like what) is Justice League's version of Captain America's shitty Avengers 1 costume; you try to look around or hope it goes away or your eyes will adjust but it just doesn't.
Liked:
-Aquaman worked, and setting him up as lost between two worlds was quick and to the point in setting up his movie. If they're never going to bring in Hawkman just make him the more savage character of the team. He should have stabbed more things
-the Themyscria scenes were really good, highlight of the movie. I particularly liked the keep away scene, it was something new, from the Amazons collapsing the mountain onward. Plus the flashback (talk about fake twitter outrage over the amazon dress holy shit was that nothing) with the Green Lantern and the old league, that worked well to lightly establish other roots in the DCEU.
-Cyborg: they're basically mixing him with John Stewart to be a bit more stoic but I liked how he wasn't really mopey about being a robot, he was trying to get a hold of it. The actor was nothing worthwhile and the CGI with him outside of wearing the hoodie was bad but I can live with him and this direction.
-hinting at Batman/WW OTP is best option yay Batman/WW :heartbeat:
-How they brought Superman back worked well enough by incorporating the Mother Box. It's a simple enough plot and having Vic be an example of what it can do showed at least something good enough compared to what I was expecting, which was Star Labs dug him up and tinkered with him. What I did like was the subtle use of him not responding to simmer down when he was called Kal-El but being called Clark before Lois got in there as the big gun. Considering how much the previous movies tried to alienate (lolz) this aspect, it's a good way to go back to more TexiKen approach to Superman.
-the team's conflict with each other was better than The Avengers and "the gem made them bicker" setup. It felt more natural and didn't require the team to fight each other outside of some snark. I sort of count fighting Superman in a different light because he was dead and out of it and the 5 did a good job of being a good team before plot required Superman.
-I actually liked the mid-credit and end-credits here, it was the first time outside of GotG that it felt like something worth waiting for. Especially the Flash/Superman race setup.
-Jack Kirby getting a solid call out in the credits away from other creators for creating the Fourth World, I just liked that. DC's always better about credit.
Didn't like:
-it needed to be done but the complete handwave away of the style of the past movies with regards to the heroes was pretty obvious. I'm glad we're to the part where the heroes are appreciated in the DC world, because they are supposed to be more revered than in Marvel's, but the only way it could have been more apparent was to up the color saturation on Superman's suit to 500%.
-Steppenwolf was find but generic, the voice was good, the look reminded me of the BFG and Count Olad put together.
-the rather apparent Watchmen callbacks in the opening credit song, things are bad, get it?
-forced humor. It ruined the good parts like Aquaman sitting on the lasso or Superman seeing Flash when he's fighting the league. Batman doesn't need to be super brooding but he also doesn't need to wisecrack. Who does that guy think he is, Holden McNeill? Hell, he hardly did that in the bwa-ha-ha league. Plus Cyborg and Superman laughing after separating the boxes was just cringey, complete with the "I work with children" line.
-Barry was 75% annoying. He would have an occasional good joke ("I hope this is East", the mid credit race), and he had a good hook in not knowing how to fight, but he looked too young and too naive and too much running his mouth. If it was Wally, it would work better, but someone like Zach Levi would have been better and at least carried the non humor parts better. Even someone like Taylor Kitsch just being boilerplate would have worked better.
-bad CGI in places. The weird almost hair lip Cavill speaks for itself, but it looked like the Snyder choreographed fights were fine, but it was stuff like Batman looking over the Star Labs as Diana showed up behind him, or
-the third (human) mother box kind of just shows up out of nowhere (and gets taken away after Superman is resurrected), especially since if Vic's dad had it at their home why didn't the Parademon get it when he was lurking around, double especially since he had already used it to save Vic.
the movie also had KPop which was a plus. You were in Korea, Avengers 2, and you did nothing with the opportunity. Should have used Boombayah but whatevs. a win's a win.
How does she even know he's called
Kal-El? Did she know him that long in BvS?
I believe it was mentioned in BvS with the Capitol hearing? At the very least Man of Steel with the Kryptonians looking for the other Kryptonian. It could be a holdover from the comics for me because Clark uses Kal-El when addressing people in a formal manner as Superman, so in a way he's not just lying to them about his name or identity.
Justice League on the whole was good. It was DC's the Avengers, only with better fights, on the whole better cinematography, with generic villain and end of world plot combined with bad forced Marvel humor and wonky CGI. It wasn't as jarring as was I expecting. Henry Cavill's weird face (I just chalk it up to him being british a boom rekt like what) is Justice League's version of Captain America's shitty Avengers 1 costume; you try to look around or hope it goes away or your eyes will adjust but it just doesn't.
Liked:
-Aquaman worked, and setting him up as lost between two worlds was quick and to the point in setting up his movie. If they're never going to bring in Hawkman just make him the more savage character of the team. He should have stabbed more things
-the Themyscria scenes were really good, highlight of the movie. I particularly liked the keep away scene, it was something new, from the Amazons collapsing the mountain onward. Plus the flashback (talk about fake twitter outrage over the amazon dress holy shit was that nothing) with the Green Lantern and the old league, that worked well to lightly establish other roots in the DCEU.
-Cyborg: they're basically mixing him with John Stewart to be a bit more stoic but I liked how he wasn't really mopey about being a robot, he was trying to get a hold of it. The actor was nothing worthwhile and the CGI with him outside of wearing the hoodie was bad but I can live with him and this direction.
-hinting at Batman/WW OTP is best option yay Batman/WW :heartbeat:
-How they brought Superman back worked well enough by incorporating the Mother Box. It's a simple enough plot and having Vic be an example of what it can do showed at least something good enough compared to what I was expecting, which was Star Labs dug him up and tinkered with him. What I did like was the subtle use of him not responding to simmer down when he was called Kal-El but being called Clark before Lois got in there as the big gun. Considering how much the previous movies tried to alienate (lolz) this aspect, it's a good way to go back to more TexiKen approach to Superman.
-the team's conflict with each other was better than The Avengers and "the gem made them bicker" setup. It felt more natural and didn't require the team to fight each other outside of some snark. I sort of count fighting Superman in a different light because he was dead and out of it and the 5 did a good job of being a good team before plot required Superman.
-I actually liked the mid-credit and end-credits here, it was the first time outside of GotG that it felt like something worth waiting for. Especially the Flash/Superman race setup.
-Jack Kirby getting a solid call out in the credits away from other creators for creating the Fourth World, I just liked that. DC's always better about credit.
Didn't like:
-it needed to be done but the complete handwave away of the style of the past movies with regards to the heroes was pretty obvious. I'm glad we're to the part where the heroes are appreciated in the DC world, because they are supposed to be more revered than in Marvel's, but the only way it could have been more apparent was to up the color saturation on Superman's suit to 500%.
-Steppenwolf was find but generic, the voice was good, the look reminded me of the BFG and Count Olad put together.
-the rather apparent Watchmen callbacks in the opening credit song, things are bad, get it?
-forced humor. It ruined the good parts like Aquaman sitting on the lasso or Superman seeing Flash when he's fighting the league. Batman doesn't need to be super brooding but he also doesn't need to wisecrack. Who does that guy think he is, Holden McNeill? Hell, he hardly did that in the bwa-ha-ha league. Plus Cyborg and Superman laughing after separating the boxes was just cringey, complete with the "I work with children" line.
-Barry was 75% annoying. He would have an occasional good joke ("I hope this is East", the mid credit race), and he had a good hook in not knowing how to fight, but he looked too young and too naive and too much running his mouth. If it was Wally, it would work better, but someone like Zach Levi would have been better and at least carried the non humor parts better. Even someone like Taylor Kitsch just being boilerplate would have worked better.
-bad CGI in places. The weird almost hair lip Cavill speaks for itself, but it looked like the Snyder choreographed fights were fine, but it was stuff like Batman looking over the Star Labs as Diana showed up behind him, or
-the third (human) mother box kind of just shows up out of nowhere (and gets taken away after Superman is resurrected), especially since if Vic's dad had it at their home why didn't the Parademon get it when he was lurking around, double especially since he had already used it to save Vic.
the movie also had KPop which was a plus. You were in Korea, Avengers 2, and you did nothing with the opportunity. Should have used Boombayah but whatevs. a win's a win.
How does she even know he's called
Kal-El? Did she know him that long in BvS?
I believe it was mentioned in BvS with the Capitol hearing? At the very least Man of Steel with the Kryptonians looking for the other Kryptonian. It could be a holdover from the comics for me because Clark uses Kal-El when addressing people in a formal manner as Superman, so in a way he's not just lying to them about his name or identity.
Fair enough, just seemed a weird way for her
to address him. But I guess at the same time she wasn't trying to out his identity. Which I'm pretty sure Lois did in front of the cops two seconds later. I wonder if Clark Kent is alive now or he stays dead.
I generally think execs watch and enjoy, but don't understand how to make movies. It's the only reason why you would give Whedon £25m plus for reshoots, and only afterwards lay down the law that the film has to be under two hours.
Executives don't care about making movies, they care about making money. And nobody knows how to make money - not Whedon, not the executives, not anyone else (except James Cameron). The executives are at least trying, though. Pointing out that they don't have a clue how to make movies is neither here nor there. Suicide Squad was one of the top 5 shittiest films I've seen in my entire life, and that thing made hella money. Executives love that movie, and for good reason, from their point of view.
That is the reason movies like this get made, and worse ones like B vs S get in theaters, they don't care about the craft and they take the wrong lessons when they fuck up because the quality fails. Because they're not artists, and don't care about what is in script.
The nepotism doesn't help. No one who had earned their position based on talent would have looked at Zach Snyder's filmography and said "This guy. That's the guy to anchor a cinematic universe based on some of our most valuable IPs."
Well except his wife.
I dunno. I think there's an IP or style out there that Snyder is good at.
The Justice League - Superman - ain't it though.
This really looks like a guy who directed Watchmen and seriously thought he was making a straight laced hero movie rather than a deconstruction. And I liked Watchmen.
some of Blue Beetle's character arc. Alien language in his head. The robotic side might be controlling him. His system's defense system forcing him to do something really stupid. Next time, he'll be talking about how the meat is crashing the mode.
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I meant more that her boobs kept changing sizes
Wonderbra Woman?
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/justice-league-dc-hopes-land-a-punch-marvel-1058409
The only people who didn't see this coming are the people who greenlit and made this whole fiasco.
It's times like this that I wonder whether these people watch movies, including ones they make. Despite going to screenings of their own movies it's like they've never seen a movie in its natural habitat, and then they wonder why their movies end up getting wrecked by Thor.
I'll do the same as I did for Suicide Squad and watch it later on Redbox, with friends willing to MST3K commentary our way through it
That's definitely part of it, they're gamblers and bureaucrats not artists.
edit: At least they had good sense to hire Whedon for Justice League, they needed the safest of bets to get this far. I'm intrigued what the train wreck would have looked like had Snyder been in total control. IIRC WW's screen time ballooned with Whedon. He might have made Flash murder people at super speed.
Good and bad thoughts:
As much as Marvel rightfully gets crap for re-telling a lot of the same general arcs over and over, they do it because it sets up the characters. It's not about the stories, it's about the characters. DC should've set up its characters better. Flash should've had his own movie before JL. Probably Cyborg and Aquaman too, but definitely Flash. He holds this movie together. Without him, it would've been another dreary Snyder film.
Act 2 = awesome. This is the best the DC movies have ever felt, and it's a shame that it was rushed into 45 minutes. The Flash coming to terms with being a real hero and not just pushing people. Cyborg doing... stuff? Aquaman using his power, the one time in the entire movie. Batman being a jerk. And most importantly, Superman fucking everyone up. I know we already had a movie about whether Superman was a villain to Earthlings or not, but I think the first JL movie should've been entirely about them bringing Pet Cemetery Superman back and trying to corral him. Yeah, the ending of that movie would be super predictable with Lois talking him into normalcy again, but still... seeing him unnerved and the damage he can do to other super heroes is awesome. Plus it feels like there should have been a more residual negative effect from being brought back, than just 15 minutes of memory loss. JL vs Superman was the best part of the movie, imo and I wish it'd been fleshed out more.
It also had some interesting thoughts, like Batman calling out Wonder Woman for not being an active leader. And the Cyborg-Flash bromance over being accidents was good and deserved more time.
Act 3 = mixed, but mostly good. The fighting was certainly better than Doomsday, and I like that the fear bug humanoid dudes turned on Classic Rock Band villain. But again, still don't care that much about him or the mother boxes. Plus it was kind of like LotR-lite.
And about the mother boxes... I know I'm an immature 12 year old at heart and they're called mother boxes in the comics, but they really should've changed the name for the movie. I think I heard 3 or 4 other chuckles in the theater when they talked about everyone coming to the mother box.
So yeah, it was like a B. Like I stated above, I don't understand DC's strategy with the EU because it felt like there were movies that should've come before this one. But I am glad they could mostly pull off an exciting movie. This is my conjecture, but it did feel like you could tell which parts Zach Snyder worked closely on and which parts were during his break from the movie. The first act, especially, was riddled with overdramatic shots and really stupid dialog that you could tell were meant to seem cool, but actually made no sense or were really superficial - a lot of people looking back over their shoulder saying dramatic one-liners.
As for the box office discussion, I asked the ticket seller and she said they had only sold 11%. That's abysmal. It's a little bit apples and oranges, but when I saw Thor the theater was mostly packed. This really did look like an 11% turnout by the time the movie started.
Other than that that scene was a high light , Wonder Woman kicking ass like a traditional super-hero.
They all knew (constantly rushing off between takes to throw up would have raised some suspicions, and they were sure to always have something conveniently around to use as a bucket if needed), but if the actress doesn't want you to acknowledge it, it's hard to suggest ways to film around something.
-superman in the cell phone footage is Whedon
- intro with Batman was Whedon, same with Batman in the plane talking to Alfred
- World without Hope montage was Snyder. The Lois bit with the empty bed next to her is actually from a later point in the movie repurposed for this
- Snyder original cut had the World without Hope montage go straight into Batman meeting with Aquaman in the village which went on longer as well. Same with their conversation after as Aquaman swims off
- Deleted Snyder scene with Martha and Lois talking in the apartment.
- Wonder Woman sequence in London is mostly all Snyder but trimmed down as the original had her taking out all the bad guys and additional slow-mo. Snyder loves his close up to convey information as there's a close up of the lead bad guy changing the gun from single to automatic mode after Wonder Woman stops the first bullet. Reshoots did add dialogue between Wonder Woman and lead bad guy before she stops all the bullets. This reshoot had everything finished to get it ready for the movie so I suspect this will be in extended version
- this cuts into the Amazonian which is Snyder and mostly not changed. A scene they removed was an Amazon being turned into a demon during Steppenwolf initial encounter. She kills herself before the transformation finishes. This shot was finished so maybe extended version
- anything with the russian family is Whedon
- Cyborgs dad talking to the janitor at Star Labs was Whedon
- Cyborg intro with his dad is a longer scene as well and Snyder . The scene starts with him looking at the people walking around the streets enjoying their lives as he looks on with envy.
- Wonder Woman meeting up with Batman while he repairs the jet was Snyder, them discussing the nature of the motherboxes on the Lake was Whedon.
- Thousand year battle is mostly the same in Snyder version, there was a back and forth between adding more focus on the Green Lantern or not. Darkseid actually showed up here as a visual stand in for Steppenwolf as one point the model wasn't quite ready yet.
- Flash scene filling out the forms and visiting his dad is Snyder
- Batman meeting Flash was Snyder. Whedon added 'people are slow, I'll try to keep up' bit
- Aquaman saving the man out in the sea was originally the end montage footage repurposed to here and it was Snyder. I believe the bits of him dumping the guy at the bar is Snyder as well
- Aquaman coming back as Steppenwolf tries and succeed in taking the motherbox is Snyder still. The only real change up is when Aquaman and Mera have a discussion which again went on longer and was a mix of both Snyder, Whedon and Wan as Aquaman was filming at the time
The discussion between Mera and Aquaman was deleted at some point and I believe someone fought hard for this to come back in the edit which I'm glad they kept in.
- janitor being taken by the demon is Snyder
- Woman on tv about her missing husband, Lois/Martha at the daily planet is Whedon
- Cyborg calling out to meet Wonder Woman and their meeting on the streets is mostly Snyder. There may be some minor bits with Cyborg as a reshoot but unsure. Alfred line about date night may have been ADR later
- Cyborg dad being kidnapped by demon to Gordon in the station to the gang meeting up on the roof and then heading to the sewers is Snyder but trimmed by a few seconds.
- Wonder Woman talking about 'doing this together as a team' and Cyborg 'didn't think you were real' were cut
- Flash panicking and Batman encouraging him to save one person is Whedon
- Cyborg saving his dad is mostly the same so Snyder.
- Wonder Woman openly taunts Steppenwolf was cut before shoving him through the wall. The fight is Snyder with added Whedon dialogue as Wonder Woman looks pissed Steppenwolf mentioned his axe having amazon blood on it.
- Flash interrupts Batman as he fights the demons, this is where the dodge sequence occurred and later cut. There was an attempt to keep it in for many versions with even a reshoot element of Flash saying 'I thought we were suppose to do this together!' Flash pushing the demon through the wall was later repurposed as Cyborg doing it. Most likely will not be extended version
- I believe Batman yells at Flash to ensure the Star Labs people are out with Cyborgs help as a demon starts to overpower Batman
- Scene with Cyborg getting people out as Flash looks on is cut
- the Flash getting people out one at a time is Whedon as is Cyborg dad explaining to him that they're after the box as Cyborg shoots a demon (repurposed from earlier)
- Batman fighting the demon on the higher level is Snyder with the WW fight still the same.
- Steppenwolf throws WW to the wall and then charges his axe at her which she dodges, this attack causes a chain reaction in which the building starts to crumble on the outside and there's now falling debris which leds towards a cut of the Star Labs people outside with the Flash. He see the debris falling so he uses his speed to punch the debris out of the way from the people but somehow misses the last big piece in which Cyborg shoots it out of the way. This was cut and in the original trailer:
This sequence had mostly finished VFX but I doubt you will see this in extended
- Batman saying 'my turn' is Snyder and is cut replaced with 'I didn't bring a sword' and 'he's tall' is Whedon.
- Cyborg asking Flash to go check on the others is cut. VFX was finished as well
- Flash helping WW with her sword is Snyder. Face plant joke after is Whedon
- Whedon reshoot of Flash replying with 'does he mean me?' when Steppenwolf mentions the Old Gods blood is cut
- WW doing her arm thing, Flash being taken by the demons, Cyborg taking over the vehicle and shooting at Steppenwolf and the flood is Snyder
- Reshot element from Wan of Aquaman emerging from the water to kick Steppenwolf before turning back to try to help slow down the flooding.
- 'did he just bail?' is ADR in, not part of Snyder original cut.
- Meeting up with Gordon and Cyborg coming back with the box is Snyder. Some scenes trimmed down
- Steppenwolf speech about finding the last box is mostly the same in Snyder.
- The gang going to the Batcave is Whedon, there was an extended scene with Flash and Alfred and Flash hugs Alfred some reason.
- The gang talking about the nature of the boxes and bringing back Superman is Whedon. Gal was not available during this time as she was doing press tour for Wonder Woman so her double was her stand in and even did some acting and that bit with her hitting Batman. In the wide shots if you look carefully you can still see that it's not Gal.
The footage of Gal was shot on a later date with green screen and composited in
- Batman talking to Alfred about Superman was Whedon
- Batman overlooking the ship is Snyder. Batman talking to Wonder Woman about the plan overlooking the kryptonian ship is Whedon
- the Lois shot from earlier in the opening montage movie was a part of this sequence as Alfred attempts to call her as well. Snyder
- break into the kryptonian ship was a longer, Cyborgs dad fakes a code red to get everyone out of the lab so the gang can get in without any major issues. There was some more additional dialogue with Flash and Aquaman. Snyder with a small chance that this may be in the extended
- preparing Superman body for the ship is Snyder.
- deleted scene - Cyborg having a premonition during his countdown. During the count of 'one' he starts to see things of possibly future events such as the end of the League, knightmare world and more importantly Darkseid.
- Superman resurrection and battle with the league members is mostly Snyder with bits trimmed down.
- Flash mentioning 'pet semenetary' is Whedon
- Flash actively tries to kick Superman during their fight which was cut
- Anytime Superman is talking during this is Whedon, even 'do you bleed?'
- Batman making a quip about if he's bleeding is Whedon
- Steppenwolf stealing the last box is the same in all versions
- Superman coming home to his farm with Lois is Snyder.
- Gang discussing their plan of attack now is Whedon
- Batman and Wonder Woman talking about leadership and her fixing his arm is all Whedon
- Superman talking about the ring is Snyder and cut. Superman talking to Lois in the field is Whedon. Not sure if Martha showing up to meet her son is Whedon or Snyder
- Steppenwolf preparing the unification is the same in all versions
- Cyborg finding the location is Whedon which leads to the gang getting on the ship is Snyder
- deleted scene of Superman coming back to the kryptonian ship and getting his suit back. VFX was finished so maybe extended version
- Aquaman with the lasso of Truth is all Whedon, Gal again wasn't here so body double in the wide shot with Gal elements being shot later
- Batman taking down the shield and the league helping each other out to reach Steppenwolf is Snyder. Close up of Wonder Woman smiling is a Whedon as well Batman making quips during this scene
- Deleted scenes - showing various people around the worlds reacting to the unification process as red skies and lightening start to happen (Martha/Lois, Cyborg Dad, Gordon, Aquaman village at the beginning, london and so forth)
- Trailer scene with Wonder Woman saying 'shall we?' with Aquaman and Cyborg was adjusted. 'Shall we' was cut and replaced with the new Whedon line
- Cyborg and Flash stuff here is mostly now all Whedon
- Batman telling Flash to get people to safety is Whedon
- lots of Wonder Woman and Aquaman fighting are adjusted or reordered but still Snyder
- Superman coming back is all Whedon. There was a wide shot of Superman during the 'I like truth' which was removed but the final edit of how it plays out is better in my opinion
- Superman with the slow mo punch dodge is Snyder. As before anything with Superman talking is Whedon during this finale
- Original previs was Wonder Woman cutting off Steppenwolf head but later changed. Steppenwolf demise was reworked a few times
- Steppenwolf fear demise through the boomtube is Whedon
- there was concept art showing the trinity looking through the end of the boomtube revealing Darkseid. Unsure if this element was ever filmed as the movie itself never had it in any version I saw.
- The slow mo shot of all of them with Flash fist bumping Cyborg is Snyder
- close up with the trinity is three different elements composited together as the actors were not available at the same time.
- the end montage is Snyder (yes, even that weird run Flash does) with Whedon element being Wonder Woman stopping the robbery in London
THE END
Flash doing the race with Superman = Whedon
Lex discussing forming their own league = Snyder
My main thought which was a better version:
- I believe that Snyder original version was more leading towards a UC style edit like BvS as I felt there was a lot of moments for the movie to breath but with some wtf ness in characters moments (flash basically standing around and doing nothing when he could do stuff) where as I feel Whedon had a lot more character beats and dialogue between them to punch it up.
- I'm not too sure if there will be an extended version but if there was I can easily see an additional 10-20 minutes.
What is it with Snyder and having Superman mute in every scene? He doesn't do this with any other character.
A lot of the Whedon stuff in there is as bad as the Snyder stuff, especially htat "I didn't bring a sword" quip.
I agree it's not his best work, but without it the film would have suffered more than it already did. His scenes bought some levity, humanity and badly needed dialogue.
I've forgotten what they asked, can you remind me what it was?
I don't believe it's answered.
I don't think it's as bad. "I didn't bring a sword" is at least more original than "My turn." Dumb lines are not as bad as dumb, predictable lines.
Going through that list, it seems like Whedon was responsible for almost all of the bright spots I saw in the movie.
It sounds like a Snyder-led Flash would've been a disappointment, whereas this version was great because of Whedon.
It was a fun romp, but yeah, "fun but hollow" seems apt - story was pretty boilerplate, there wasn't much of an ongoing theme running besides "bad guy must be stopped" (that I noticed, at least), the villain was as bad (maybe even worse) than Marvel's bad villains. There are a lot of cool bits though!
JL is on track to not break $100 million.
Unfortunatly, with the current glut of superhero media, "occasional cool bits" doesnt cut it. Had it come out back in the early 2000's with all those mediocre superhero movies, we'd be crapping our pants over it. As it is, it's not nearly good enough for the property.
I'm betting they go for a soft-reboot with Flashpoint to cut the parts that don't work and justify the things they want to change (like replacing Batman).
Well except his wife.
I was about to go all "Hey! Thor's not..." and then I realized "Well, yeah, if only because his movies have been kinda meh."
Which is why Thor Ragnarok was so good. That outperformed all of his previous movies in quality and profits (taking a guess on that last part)
Really surprised Justice League isn't doing that well. Like, I didn't plan to see it in theaters and saw it took a ratings it, but I didn't expect to see it doing this bad.
I dunno. I think there's an IP or style out there that Snyder is good at.
The Justice League - Superman - ain't it though.
This really looks like a guy who directed Watchmen and seriously thought he was making a straight laced hero movie rather than a deconstruction. And I liked Watchmen.
Thor 3 isn’t just Thor 3.
It’s “what happened to Hulk?” “Will Hela have an Infinity Gem!?” “Are they gonna meet the Guardians of the Galaxy?” and then Thor films specifically “What happened between Odin and Loki?” “ What’s going to happen with Odin and Loki” and of course “OH Fuck! She broke the hammer in the trailer!”
There’s a lot of expectation and excitement built up for this film from everything that’s come before it building up to the infinity war. It’s not just “a Thor movie” it’s the next link in a chain.
Which isn’t to say they couldn’t have made a good Justice League movie without lots of lead in.
But it would have been a hell of a lot easier if everyone was a known character and we’d had more background on Apokolips, Darkseid, and maybe some kind of you know plot beyond “Me invade earth now, because reasons.”
Liked:
-Aquaman worked, and setting him up as lost between two worlds was quick and to the point in setting up his movie. If they're never going to bring in Hawkman just make him the more savage character of the team. He should have stabbed more things
-the Themyscria scenes were really good, highlight of the movie. I particularly liked the keep away scene, it was something new, from the Amazons collapsing the mountain onward. Plus the flashback (talk about fake twitter outrage over the amazon dress holy shit was that nothing) with the Green Lantern and the old league, that worked well to lightly establish other roots in the DCEU.
-Cyborg: they're basically mixing him with John Stewart to be a bit more stoic but I liked how he wasn't really mopey about being a robot, he was trying to get a hold of it. The actor was nothing worthwhile and the CGI with him outside of wearing the hoodie was bad but I can live with him and this direction.
-hinting at Batman/WW OTP is best option yay Batman/WW :heartbeat:
-How they brought Superman back worked well enough by incorporating the Mother Box. It's a simple enough plot and having Vic be an example of what it can do showed at least something good enough compared to what I was expecting, which was Star Labs dug him up and tinkered with him. What I did like was the subtle use of him not responding to simmer down when he was called Kal-El but being called Clark before Lois got in there as the big gun. Considering how much the previous movies tried to alienate (lolz) this aspect, it's a good way to go back to more TexiKen approach to Superman.
-the team's conflict with each other was better than The Avengers and "the gem made them bicker" setup. It felt more natural and didn't require the team to fight each other outside of some snark. I sort of count fighting Superman in a different light because he was dead and out of it and the 5 did a good job of being a good team before plot required Superman.
-I actually liked the mid-credit and end-credits here, it was the first time outside of GotG that it felt like something worth waiting for. Especially the Flash/Superman race setup.
-Jack Kirby getting a solid call out in the credits away from other creators for creating the Fourth World, I just liked that. DC's always better about credit.
Didn't like:
-it needed to be done but the complete handwave away of the style of the past movies with regards to the heroes was pretty obvious. I'm glad we're to the part where the heroes are appreciated in the DC world, because they are supposed to be more revered than in Marvel's, but the only way it could have been more apparent was to up the color saturation on Superman's suit to 500%.
-Steppenwolf was find but generic, the voice was good, the look reminded me of the BFG and Count Olad put together.
-the rather apparent Watchmen callbacks in the opening credit song, things are bad, get it?
-forced humor. It ruined the good parts like Aquaman sitting on the lasso or Superman seeing Flash when he's fighting the league. Batman doesn't need to be super brooding but he also doesn't need to wisecrack. Who does that guy think he is, Holden McNeill? Hell, he hardly did that in the bwa-ha-ha league. Plus Cyborg and Superman laughing after separating the boxes was just cringey, complete with the "I work with children" line.
-Barry was 75% annoying. He would have an occasional good joke ("I hope this is East", the mid credit race), and he had a good hook in not knowing how to fight, but he looked too young and too naive and too much running his mouth. If it was Wally, it would work better, but someone like Zach Levi would have been better and at least carried the non humor parts better. Even someone like Taylor Kitsch just being boilerplate would have worked better.
-bad CGI in places. The weird almost hair lip Cavill speaks for itself, but it looked like the Snyder choreographed fights were fine, but it was stuff like Batman looking over the Star Labs as Diana showed up behind him, or
-the third (human) mother box kind of just shows up out of nowhere (and gets taken away after Superman is resurrected), especially since if Vic's dad had it at their home why didn't the Parademon get it when he was lurking around, double especially since he had already used it to save Vic.
the movie also had KPop which was a plus. You were in Korea, Avengers 2, and you did nothing with the opportunity. Should have used Boombayah but whatevs. a win's a win.
How does she even know he's called
Fair enough, just seemed a weird way for her
That is the reason movies like this get made, and worse ones like B vs S get in theaters, they don't care about the craft and they take the wrong lessons when they fuck up because the quality fails. Because they're not artists, and don't care about what is in script.
Injustice.