Considering population, I think me being the only one from Yellowknife makes Yellowknife the most PA populated city.
I had to look it up and according to the 2016 census the population was 19,569 which is way lower than I would have guessed if that kind of trivia question had come up.
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GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
The really weird thing is that I was recently thinking how cool the weather has been so far in Victoria. Our place can get bloody fuckin' toasty during a heat wave, and I think it did for a day or two back in late May/early June. But we're already into July and it's been surprisingly comfortable so far. Plenty of days left in summer for that to change, of course.
All the fires also make me remember a fews years back when they were happening then as well. And how they kicked up so much smoke and soot that it affected nearly all of the island. Like for instance the one day in Victoria where the sky was burnt orange all day. Literally as if somebody put an orange filter over reality. It was actually really cool to see, in a "Something really bad and horrific is going on elsewhere to create this, not to mention the obvious meteorological damage this must be doing". ...The entire city smelled faintly of woodsmoke too, which I kind of liked.
I was up in Cowichan when that happened and it was really surreal.
Also, just how many god damned victorians are on here!?
We were supposed to have a meetup!
+1
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Considering population, I think me being the only one from Yellowknife makes Yellowknife the most PA populated city.
I had to look it up and according to the 2016 census the population was 19,569 which is way lower than I would have guessed if that kind of trivia question had come up.
Yep. The PA membership rate in YK is 1 per 20,000.
How does that fare campared to Victoria or Thunder Bay?
Considering population, I think me being the only one from Yellowknife makes Yellowknife the most PA populated city.
I had to look it up and according to the 2016 census the population was 19,569 which is way lower than I would have guessed if that kind of trivia question had come up.
Yep. The PA membership rate in YK is 1 per 20,000.
How does that fare campared to Victoria or Thunder Bay?
Well, if there are 4 Victorians or 5 Thunder BayansThunder BayersThundians people from Thunder Bay here, we'll match your pro rata.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Considering population, I think me being the only one from Yellowknife makes Yellowknife the most PA populated city.
I had to look it up and according to the 2016 census the population was 19,569 which is way lower than I would have guessed if that kind of trivia question had come up.
Yep. The PA membership rate in YK is 1 per 20,000.
How does that fare campared to Victoria or Thunder Bay?
Well, if there are 4 Victorians or 5 Thunder BayansThunder BayersThundians people from Thunder Bay here, we'll match your pro rata.
Sure, but Yellowknife is poised to DOUBLE our PA membership rate!
I just need one person to move here. >.>
0
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Considering population, I think me being the only one from Yellowknife makes Yellowknife the most PA populated city.
I had to look it up and according to the 2016 census the population was 19,569 which is way lower than I would have guessed if that kind of trivia question had come up.
Yep. The PA membership rate in YK is 1 per 20,000.
How does that fare campared to Victoria or Thunder Bay?
Well, if there are 4 Victorians or 5 Thunder BayansThunder BayersThundians people from Thunder Bay here, we'll match your pro rata.
Sure, but Yellowknife is poised to DOUBLE our PA membership rate!
I just need one person to move here. >.>
I moved from Yellowknife to Victoria at one point , apparently just to skew forum population census.
(over in Kelowna now tho)
Nah, I'm here from YYC as well, and I think at least one other person is, too. I'd post Stampede breakfast photos but they look just like everyone else's stampede breakfast photos, I reckon.
(edit: you're welcome to keep on being the sheriff, though, I don't want that sort of responsibility.. )
Nah, I'm here from YYC as well, and I think at least one other person is, too. I'd post Stampede breakfast photos but they look just like everyone else's stampede breakfast photos, I reckon.
(edit: you're welcome to keep on being the sheriff, though, I don't want that sort of responsibility.. )
Nah, I'm here from YYC as well, and I think at least one other person is, too. I'd post Stampede breakfast photos but they look just like everyone else's stampede breakfast photos, I reckon.
(edit: you're welcome to keep on being the sheriff, though, I don't want that sort of responsibility.. )
*BANG*
Anyone else want to be a hero?
*waves gun*
thought not
:P
Oh those wacky Calgarians.
:whistle:
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited July 2017
Angus Reid has a poll out of Canadian opinions on Omar Khadr, the apology, and compensation. You can find the Full Article, Polls, Poll Questions, Background Information, etc. here. Fair warning: if you were having a good day, and would like to continue having a good day, do not click that link. With that said, a snippet:
(Global News' chief correspondent including one of the poll questions involved)
THE COURTS ALREADY DECIDED MULTIPLE TIMES, WHAT EVEN IS THAT QUESTION
Edit: Things that the survey respondents simultaneously believe:
* 64% believe Omar Khadr is still a radicalized threat, despite having publicly renounced the radicalized worldview of his father. This is up from 55% in 2015.
* 42% are unsure whether Omar Khadr was treated unfairly & 34% believe he's been treated as fairly as possible, despite 74% believing that he was in fact a child soldier at the time. Apparently "child soldier" is a title that conveys no meaningful import.
* 65% disagree with the notion that the government had no choice but to settle and apologize, and among those who disagree with the decision, that rises to 85% who believe the government had a choice in the matter.
Keep in mind, 2/3s of Canadians apparently were in favour of Omar Khadr's repatriation back to Canada in 2009, so apparently we're happy to fight for the right of imprisoned, tortured Canadians to come back home, provided we never admit fault or pay compensation* when we're complicit along the way.
* Half of what he was even asking for and we'd have to pay when he would have won his lawsuit, had we not settled.
Angus Reid has a poll out of Canadian opinions on Omar Khadr, the apology, and compensation. You can find the Full Article, Polls, Poll Questions, Background Information, etc. here. Fair warning: if you were having a good day, and would like to continue having a good day, do not click that link. With that said, a snippet:
(Global News' chief correspondent including one of the poll questions involved)
THE COURTS ALREADY DECIDED MULTIPLE TIMES, WHAT EVEN IS THAT QUESTION
Edit: Things that the survey respondents simultaneously believe:
* 64% believe Omar Khadr is still a radicalized threat, despite having publicly renounced the radicalized worldview of his father. This is up from 55% in 2015.
* 42% are unsure whether Omar Khadr was treated unfairly & 34% believe he's been treated as fairly as possible, despite 74% believing that he was in fact a child soldier at the time. Apparently "child soldier" is a title that conveys no meaningful import.
* 65% disagree with the notion that the government had no choice but to settle and apologize, and among those who disagree with the decision, that rises to 85% who believe the government had a choice in the matter.
Keep in mind, 2/3s of Canadians apparently were in favour of Omar Khadr's repatriation back to Canada in 2009, so apparently we're happy to fight for the right of imprisoned, tortured Canadians to come back home, provided we never admit fault or pay compensation* when we're complicit along the way.
* Half of what he was even asking for and we'd have to pay when he would have won his lawsuit, had we not settled.
The first thing to understand about this result is that like 99% of Canadians know nothing about the case at all.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited July 2017
They were provided with the background information as part of the questionnaire in the run up to the questions asked, including his age, his history of imprisonment, the 2010 Supreme Court ruling that the government acted unconstitutionally, and his current status.
The survey found that knowledge about the case had no correlation:
Support does not appear to be affected by awareness of Omar Khadr and his story, or by gender (see comprehensive tables for more detail) but political affiliation plays a major role.
Heard it framed today while at work as "Wish I could get 10 million for committing a crime". I just simply said "I disagree". After the first customer left, the second customer said "I would stay away from that conversation but I am glad you said something, its an important conversation"*
(* I'm paraphrasing, there was more said but that was the jist of it)
I simply think its a mix of ignorance, jealousy, and bigotry - whoever frames the story for the viewer first impacts how they view the settlement, unfortunately not a lot of people are going to go to the effort of doing much research on poor Khadr's fucked up life.
I see a lot of similar things show up whenever first nations and their hopes, dreams, and flaws implementing those get brought up and similarly I think you would find many Liberal and NDP supporters just as guilty as the CPC supporters of holding harmful legal opinions in those matters as well, even as things like first nations blockades that invoke certain fears and prejudices fade from the national spot light while the masked funding cuts of the Cons being in power continue to linger and fester as not helping the poorest among Canada.
They were provided with the background information as part of the questionnaire in the run up to the questions asked, including his age, his history of imprisonment, the 2010 Supreme Court ruling that the government acted unconstitutionally, and his current status.
The survey found that knowledge about the case had no correlation:
Support does not appear to be affected by awareness of Omar Khadr and his story, or by gender (see comprehensive tables for more detail) but political affiliation plays a major role.
They say it found no correlation but I don't see any crosstabs in the poll on that. I'm deeply suspicious of self-reporting on how familiar people are with the issues. And reading the questionnaire they say they used, it really doesn't provide much of any background at all on the issues relevant to the topline question there. So I'm not inclined to take it at face value.
Frankly, my first read on the situation is most people don't know anything about the situation and are cranky about the issue because they don't want the government paying out money to him.
Small sample size but my family is in the same misguided boat as those respondents.
1. Don't know Fuck all about the case
2. Don't know the court has already weighed in
3. Don't even know how long he was held
All they hear is some terrorist got given 10 million bucks by Trudeau.
Its a stupidly small amount of money for the country to pay and will affect no one but him in any way.
But, it's a good reminder that Canadians can be uninformed knee jerk idiots and we shouldn't be quite so smug
Nah, I'm here from YYC as well, and I think at least one other person is, too. I'd post Stampede breakfast photos but they look just like everyone else's stampede breakfast photos, I reckon.
(edit: you're welcome to keep on being the sheriff, though, I don't want that sort of responsibility.. )
I don't think any of us CAN form an informed opinion about the Khadr case as a whole. There are so many conflicting accounts and changed stories about what happened during the firefight that nobody (including Khadr, who says he doesn't remember) even knows if he threw the damn grenade in the first place. At this point, there have been so many violations of international law surrounding the man, and so many possible lies on all sides, that every single article I read tells a slightly different story.
Which is why he's getting a settlement. Canada's government done fucked up his file, making it impossible for him to get a fair trial, and the courts have agreed 100% with that assessment. People are never happy when somebody they think may have committed a crime goes free or gets a settlement because of some kind of miscarriage in the justice system... and many of those cases are far more black and white than this one. So tough titties, Canadians. You might not like it, but you're gonna have to lump it.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
Regardless of what he did during the firefight, our Government's treatment, and the condoning of the Americans treatment of him for possible (and unproven) crimes committed as a (possible) child soldier are pretty clearly in the wrong.
Seems to me the judiciary not only could form an informed opinion about the whole situation, but did so repeatedly.
I wish I could tell whether the howling from most of the country over this was a sign of the extent to which Alternative Facts have infested Canadian discourse, the extent to which the previous government has trained the populace on anything involving terrorism or the judiciary in general, or simply the usual obnoxiously-intense Dunning-Kruger effect most members of the general public have whenever any kind of controversial legal matters are involved.
(That said, I'm really not looking forward to the CPC treating this as the country's Benghazi moment or whatever and howling about it nonstop for years.)
Nah, I'm here from YYC as well, and I think at least one other person is, too. I'd post Stampede breakfast photos but they look just like everyone else's stampede breakfast photos, I reckon.
(edit: you're welcome to keep on being the sheriff, though, I don't want that sort of responsibility.. )
I've not had to bring breakfast or lunch so far this week. It's stampede bbq's all down the area I work.
Nah, I'm here from YYC as well, and I think at least one other person is, too. I'd post Stampede breakfast photos but they look just like everyone else's stampede breakfast photos, I reckon.
(edit: you're welcome to keep on being the sheriff, though, I don't want that sort of responsibility.. )
I've not had to bring breakfast or lunch so far this week. It's stampede bbq's all down the area I work.
Just did the one stampede breakfast on Friday (Palliser.. woo woo) I try to avoid most of the stampede, though will be doing a work stampede party on Thursday, may or may not be messy.
Nah, I'm here from YYC as well, and I think at least one other person is, too. I'd post Stampede breakfast photos but they look just like everyone else's stampede breakfast photos, I reckon.
(edit: you're welcome to keep on being the sheriff, though, I don't want that sort of responsibility.. )
I've not had to bring breakfast or lunch so far this week. It's stampede bbq's all down the area I work.
Just did the one stampede breakfast on Friday (Palliser.. woo woo) I try to avoid most of the stampede, though will be doing a work stampede party on Thursday, may or may not be messy.
A good friend of mine drives charter buses and does a lot of corporate stampede parties... They all get messy.
The company to the left of mine did one yesterday and the one to the right is doing a rainy one today. I won't go out of my way for them but if I can see pancakes from my office...
We went to the CBC one, which was crowded as always but still pretty relaxed, and the one at a park in our neighborhood which is mostly kids running around; that's about enough for us these days.
Seems to me the judiciary not only could form an informed opinion about the whole situation, but did so repeatedly.
I wish I could tell whether the howling from most of the country over this was a sign of the extent to which Alternative Facts have infested Canadian discourse, the extent to which the previous government has trained the populace on anything involving terrorism or the judiciary in general, or simply the usual obnoxiously-intense Dunning-Kruger effect most members of the general public have whenever any kind of controversial legal matters are involved.
(That said, I'm really not looking forward to the CPC treating this as the country's Benghazi moment or whatever and howling about it nonstop for years.)
Unfortunately, doing the right thing economically and even morally can fuck you over politically. The Tories will never shut up about this. They'll be talking about how the Liberals are soft on terrorism for the next forty years (not that they weren't already).
The situations aren't the same, but Maher Arar got basically the same deal ten years ago: citynews.ca/2007/01/26/maher-arar-accepts-ottawas-apology-and-10-5-million-compensation/ so there's little doubt that Khadr was going to wind up with a good chunk of change at some point, and in all likelihood settling the case saved money. The Liberals' best bet now is to just steal a line from Harper and change the names:
I know to some Canadians that will sound like an awful lot of money. But I can tell you that the reality is, given the findings of the O’Connor commission and the unjust treatment that Mr. Arar received, that figure is within this government’s realistic assessment of what Mr. Arar would have won in a lawsuit and that is the basis on which we concluded this settlement.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
I would just stick to the line that the Tories would apparently want you to keep paying legal fees (which at that point were already $5 million), in a losing battle so that taxpayers could pay $20 million, if not more, down the line when they lost, again.
If the money angle is the only thing that resonates, anyway.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Something interesting has happened - all the people that I have chosen to surround myself with have come out in defense of Khadr, and the Facebook posts decrying the settlement that I see are because my friends are combating that sentiment.
I wonder if there's correlation between tacitly approving of torturing a child and some aspect of personality that I pick up on and avoid. Like the kind of social aggression that some people do that is basically a quiet bullying? Or something? I dunno.
But with 70% of the country torture friendly, and me not getting into any arguments about it with the people I hang out with, I'm interested.
Something interesting has happened - all the people that I have chosen to surround myself with have come out in defense of Khadr, and the Facebook posts decrying the settlement that I see are because my friends are combating that sentiment.
I wonder if there's correlation between tacitly approving of torturing a child and some aspect of personality that I pick up on and avoid. Like the kind of social aggression that some people do that is basically a quiet bullying? Or something? I dunno.
But with 70% of the country torture friendly, and me not getting into any arguments about it with the people I hang out with, I'm interested.
I'm the same. Even without bringing up torture I'm not cool with treating child soldiers as enemy combatants.
I would not describe people coming out against the Khadr sentiment as "torture friendly".
That ascribes far far too much coherence, thought and information to people's views on these kind of issues. It's not really how people work.
The confession is the only real evidence given that Khadr was an active participant in the fight in which Speer was killed, and no one denies that confession was given under torture, torture in which the Canadian government was complicit. Saying the settlement is wrong is saying that the Canadian government was right to help the US torture Khadr.
I would not describe people coming out against the Khadr sentiment as "torture friendly".
That ascribes far far too much coherence, thought and information to people's views on these kind of issues. It's not really how people work.
The confession is the only real evidence given that Khadr was an active participant in the fight in which Speer was killed, and no one denies that confession was given under torture, torture in which the Canadian government was complicit. Saying the settlement is wrong is saying that the Canadian government was right to help the US torture Khadr.
You are entirely missing the point. What makes you think the people angry about the settlement know anything about this? Or even connect one to the other?
I mean, the largest group in the survey linked above is "Not sure" on whether or not he was treated fairly and like 74% think he was a child soldier and should have been dealt with accordingly (which would involve not-torture). They don't directly ask about the torture there but that gives you an idea of the complexity of how people's opinions work on these subjects.
Calling the people against the settlement "torture friendly" is silly and ignores both nuance and how people's opinions on these things work.
Frankly, I'd bet most of the people against it are just salty Canada decided to voluntarily pay someone money, period. People be dumb like that.
Posts
It's pretty cool actually. You can see the size difference between the start of the Festival to the end. They get HUGE.
I had to look it up and according to the 2016 census the population was 19,569 which is way lower than I would have guessed if that kind of trivia question had come up.
We were supposed to have a meetup!
Yep. The PA membership rate in YK is 1 per 20,000.
How does that fare campared to Victoria or Thunder Bay?
Well, if there are 4 Victorians or 5 Thunder Bayans Thunder Bayers Thundians people from Thunder Bay here, we'll match your pro rata.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Sure, but Yellowknife is poised to DOUBLE our PA membership rate!
I just need one person to move here. >.>
I have 549 Rock Band Drum and 305 Pro Drum FC's
REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS
I moved from Yellowknife to Victoria at one point , apparently just to skew forum population census.
(over in Kelowna now tho)
T-Bayers?
Fuck you, Toronto thunder!
You can suck my dick.
I never finish anyth
Only room for one sheriff in this town
(edit: you're welcome to keep on being the sheriff, though, I don't want that sort of responsibility..
*BANG*
Anyone else want to be a hero?
*waves gun*
thought not
:P
Oh those wacky Calgarians.
:whistle:
*deep breath*
(Global News' chief correspondent including one of the poll questions involved)
THE COURTS ALREADY DECIDED MULTIPLE TIMES, WHAT EVEN IS THAT QUESTION
Edit: Things that the survey respondents simultaneously believe:
* 64% believe Omar Khadr is still a radicalized threat, despite having publicly renounced the radicalized worldview of his father. This is up from 55% in 2015.
* 42% are unsure whether Omar Khadr was treated unfairly & 34% believe he's been treated as fairly as possible, despite 74% believing that he was in fact a child soldier at the time. Apparently "child soldier" is a title that conveys no meaningful import.
* 65% disagree with the notion that the government had no choice but to settle and apologize, and among those who disagree with the decision, that rises to 85% who believe the government had a choice in the matter.
Keep in mind, 2/3s of Canadians apparently were in favour of Omar Khadr's repatriation back to Canada in 2009, so apparently we're happy to fight for the right of imprisoned, tortured Canadians to come back home, provided we never admit fault or pay compensation* when we're complicit along the way.
* Half of what he was even asking for and we'd have to pay when he would have won his lawsuit, had we not settled.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
The first thing to understand about this result is that like 99% of Canadians know nothing about the case at all.
The survey found that knowledge about the case had no correlation:
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
(* I'm paraphrasing, there was more said but that was the jist of it)
I simply think its a mix of ignorance, jealousy, and bigotry - whoever frames the story for the viewer first impacts how they view the settlement, unfortunately not a lot of people are going to go to the effort of doing much research on poor Khadr's fucked up life.
I see a lot of similar things show up whenever first nations and their hopes, dreams, and flaws implementing those get brought up and similarly I think you would find many Liberal and NDP supporters just as guilty as the CPC supporters of holding harmful legal opinions in those matters as well, even as things like first nations blockades that invoke certain fears and prejudices fade from the national spot light while the masked funding cuts of the Cons being in power continue to linger and fester as not helping the poorest among Canada.
They say it found no correlation but I don't see any crosstabs in the poll on that. I'm deeply suspicious of self-reporting on how familiar people are with the issues. And reading the questionnaire they say they used, it really doesn't provide much of any background at all on the issues relevant to the topline question there. So I'm not inclined to take it at face value.
Frankly, my first read on the situation is most people don't know anything about the situation and are cranky about the issue because they don't want the government paying out money to him.
1. Don't know Fuck all about the case
2. Don't know the court has already weighed in
3. Don't even know how long he was held
All they hear is some terrorist got given 10 million bucks by Trudeau.
Its a stupidly small amount of money for the country to pay and will affect no one but him in any way.
But, it's a good reminder that Canadians can be uninformed knee jerk idiots and we shouldn't be quite so smug
Yes...crazy...
I never finish anyth
Which is why he's getting a settlement. Canada's government done fucked up his file, making it impossible for him to get a fair trial, and the courts have agreed 100% with that assessment. People are never happy when somebody they think may have committed a crime goes free or gets a settlement because of some kind of miscarriage in the justice system... and many of those cases are far more black and white than this one. So tough titties, Canadians. You might not like it, but you're gonna have to lump it.
Either we're a nation of laws or we're not.
I wish I could tell whether the howling from most of the country over this was a sign of the extent to which Alternative Facts have infested Canadian discourse, the extent to which the previous government has trained the populace on anything involving terrorism or the judiciary in general, or simply the usual obnoxiously-intense Dunning-Kruger effect most members of the general public have whenever any kind of controversial legal matters are involved.
(That said, I'm really not looking forward to the CPC treating this as the country's Benghazi moment or whatever and howling about it nonstop for years.)
I've not had to bring breakfast or lunch so far this week. It's stampede bbq's all down the area I work.
Just did the one stampede breakfast on Friday (Palliser.. woo woo) I try to avoid most of the stampede, though will be doing a work stampede party on Thursday, may or may not be messy.
A good friend of mine drives charter buses and does a lot of corporate stampede parties... They all get messy.
The company to the left of mine did one yesterday and the one to the right is doing a rainy one today. I won't go out of my way for them but if I can see pancakes from my office...
Unfortunately, doing the right thing economically and even morally can fuck you over politically. The Tories will never shut up about this. They'll be talking about how the Liberals are soft on terrorism for the next forty years (not that they weren't already).
The situations aren't the same, but Maher Arar got basically the same deal ten years ago: citynews.ca/2007/01/26/maher-arar-accepts-ottawas-apology-and-10-5-million-compensation/ so there's little doubt that Khadr was going to wind up with a good chunk of change at some point, and in all likelihood settling the case saved money. The Liberals' best bet now is to just steal a line from Harper and change the names:
If the money angle is the only thing that resonates, anyway.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I wonder if there's correlation between tacitly approving of torturing a child and some aspect of personality that I pick up on and avoid. Like the kind of social aggression that some people do that is basically a quiet bullying? Or something? I dunno.
But with 70% of the country torture friendly, and me not getting into any arguments about it with the people I hang out with, I'm interested.
I'm the same. Even without bringing up torture I'm not cool with treating child soldiers as enemy combatants.
That ascribes far far too much coherence, thought and information to people's views on these kind of issues. It's not really how people work.
The confession is the only real evidence given that Khadr was an active participant in the fight in which Speer was killed, and no one denies that confession was given under torture, torture in which the Canadian government was complicit. Saying the settlement is wrong is saying that the Canadian government was right to help the US torture Khadr.
You are entirely missing the point. What makes you think the people angry about the settlement know anything about this? Or even connect one to the other?
I mean, the largest group in the survey linked above is "Not sure" on whether or not he was treated fairly and like 74% think he was a child soldier and should have been dealt with accordingly (which would involve not-torture). They don't directly ask about the torture there but that gives you an idea of the complexity of how people's opinions work on these subjects.
Calling the people against the settlement "torture friendly" is silly and ignores both nuance and how people's opinions on these things work.
Frankly, I'd bet most of the people against it are just salty Canada decided to voluntarily pay someone money, period. People be dumb like that.