I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
School is already scheduled around religious worship, thats why Saturday and Sunday have no classes.
Also, on a practical note, since we allow private religious schools, at least in Ontario, banning prayer by students in public schools won't actually do much to limit religious exposure of those individuals. They'll just be pulled from public schools and sent to more accommodating private ones.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
School is already scheduled around religious worship, thats why Saturday and Sunday have no classes.
Also, on a practical note, since we allow private religious schools, at least in Ontario, banning prayer by students in public schools won't actually do much to limit religious exposure of those individuals. They'll just be pulled from public schools and sent to more accommodating private ones.
Ironically, students will become less exposed to religious diversity and more set in their family's beliefs in that scenario.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
Saying that secularism on its own would lead to a better society is entirely ignorant, atheists who spread hateful beliefs and primarily express their atheism in aggression towards, say, Muslims are incredibly common. Atheists are just as unreasonable as theists because both groups are comprised of humans.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
So, this is why mandatory religious education should be a thing. Stating that religions exist primarily for the followers to have a reason to hate another group is insane and wildly off base. This line of reasoning is why we have random crazies claiming Islam is a religion of hate, and contributes to the hate motivated attacks against its followers.
If you are actually interested, this page has a couple tables that do a reasonable job at boiling down some of the major religions: Link
Although it is a little Christian-centric, given who wrote it and what I view as a misinterpretation of Satan in Judaism. By the way, I grew up Athiest and attended public school, I have never really attended church beyond Christmas services with grandparents and friend's weddings. Being Athiest and secular does not magically negate the importance of religion in our world.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
Saying that secularism on its own would lead to a better society is entirely ignorant, atheists who spread hateful beliefs and primarily express their atheism in aggression towards, say, Muslims are incredibly common. Atheists are just as unreasonable as theists because both groups are comprised of humans.
I do want to live in a country where decisions are made purely on reason and not because a book said so 2000 years ago.
So yes I do believe secularism should be what we are moving towards. I would also say that a large majority of hate crimes have a religiously motivated background. Not many atheist groups promoting violence towards gays or other faiths on a pulpit a few times a week.
Just look at the worst aspect of the right here or down in the south. I don't think you can hear Leitch, pence or Cruz speak on a subject without bringing the Lord into it.
While there are definitely militant atheist I wholeheartedly disagree that it's a common thing.
If you look deeper at the original article I posted that started this debate the group opposing the prayer exemption are headed by the local Hindu organization that is staunchly anti Muslim and an organization of local churches not some collective of violent atheist.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
Saying that secularism on its own would lead to a better society is entirely ignorant, atheists who spread hateful beliefs and primarily express their atheism in aggression towards, say, Muslims are incredibly common. Atheists are just as unreasonable as theists because both groups are comprised of humans.
I do want to live in a country where decisions are made purely on reason and not because a book said so 2000 years ago.
So yes I do believe secularism should be what we are moving towards. I would also say that a large majority of hate crimes have a religiously motivated background. Not many atheist groups promoting violence towards gays or other faiths on a pulpit a few times a week.
Just look at the worst aspect of the right here or down in the south. I don't think you can hear Leitch, pence or Cruz speak on a subject without bringing the Lord into it.
While there are definitely militant atheist I wholeheartedly disagree that it's a common thing.
If you look deeper at the original article I posted that started this debate the group opposing the prayer exemption are headed by the local Hindu organization that is staunchly anti Muslim and an organization of local churches not some collective of violent atheist.
Educating people about religioin isn't advocating for fucking theocracies, holy shit. And it's entirely possible to be religious and legislate effectively, just as it's possible to be atheist and make idiotic decisions.
I'm I guess agnostic? But I have studied most religions extensively. The main thing you learn learning about religion is that very few actual religious people have ever read more than 5% of their respective religious texts.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
Saying that secularism on its own would lead to a better society is entirely ignorant, atheists who spread hateful beliefs and primarily express their atheism in aggression towards, say, Muslims are incredibly common. Atheists are just as unreasonable as theists because both groups are comprised of humans.
I do want to live in a country where decisions are made purely on reason and not because a book said so 2000 years ago.
So yes I do believe secularism should be what we are moving towards. I would also say that a large majority of hate crimes have a religiously motivated background. Not many atheist groups promoting violence towards gays or other faiths on a pulpit a few times a week.
Just look at the worst aspect of the right here or down in the south. I don't think you can hear Leitch, pence or Cruz speak on a subject without bringing the Lord into it.
While there are definitely militant atheist I wholeheartedly disagree that it's a common thing.
If you look deeper at the original article I posted that started this debate the group opposing the prayer exemption are headed by the local Hindu organization that is staunchly anti Muslim and an organization of local churches not some collective of violent atheist.
Educating people about religioin isn't advocating for fucking theocracies, holy shit. And it's entirely possible to be religious and legislate effectively, just as it's possible to be atheist and make idiotic decisions.
If anything, wouldn't educating people about the plethora of religions out there tend to promote secularism? It did for me, at least, as I came to understood that Christians actually believed all sorts of different crap, that these supposedly organized religions were just ontological constructs of fragmented belief systems lumped together for in convenient abstractions. It revealed to me the flaw of Pascal's Wager - though I hadn't learned about that formally yet - that to believe or not to believe wasn't a binary choice, but rather we also had to choose what to believe, and since I could not ascertain any particular rational reason people would choose to believe one set of religious beliefs over another set - and, if anything, people's beliefs tended to correlate much more strongly with parental beliefs and socio-geographical context - that was one of the key factors that pushed me away from organized religion.
TL;DR: Learning about different religious beliefs convinced me that none of their individual claims to correctness/primacy were trustworthy and that religion was a humanist phenomenon more than a divine one.
---
More broadly, I am bemused at how quickly the West has lost faith in the compelling quality of its culture. It didn't seem that long ago that Coca-Cola, McDonald's and Wonderbra were considered key players in the defeat of Communism and the Warsaw Pact, that there was exceeding confidence that Western consumer culture would transform communist China and the rest of the world, and that immigrants - or their children - would inevitably integrate under the sheer pressure of our popular culture.
And now, cultural anxiety amongst white folk is higher than I've ever observed in my lifetime, a fact made all the stranger given that social media and the Internet seem to have increased the reach of Western cultural media into our everyday lives and have subsumed individuals in socio-commercial networks of influence. Where once I saw a somewhat uncritical, unstrategic overconfidence in Western cultural supremacy, now I see a foolish anxiety leading to self-sabotage. Concerted anti-Muslim sentiments are, if anything, driving Muslim youth back into their own circles, isolating them from broader multicultural society. The more people rant and rave about the niqab, the more Muslim girls are donning them. Instead of letting them find their own identities, and trusting - perhaps overconfidently - that they'll find those within the broader Canadian/Western social milieu, we deny them any option other than the brown, Muslim outsider identity.
So yeah. I mean. Sure. Forbid Muslim students from praying in public schools. Then they go to Muslim private schools, with only other Muslim students. Cut out religious classes in school, then they only learn about religion from biased proselytizing organizations. (Just like with sex ed. If they don't learn it in school from responsible sources, they'll learn it elsewhere.) Tell Muslim youth that they'll never be anything but suspiciously brown foreigners, then they'll never aspire to find acceptance. Insist that the right to free speech protects Islamophobic rants, and they'll never respect our principles and philosophies. Protest against mosques or halal businesses in your neighbourhood, and Muslims will just congregate into isolated enclaves of their own creation.
Conservative, Islamophobic, anti-immigrant, white, Christian Canadians are operating from such a siege mentality... it's like a winning sports team intent on throwing the game, playing from a position of weakness when they're in a position of strength. Just... an utterly abject failure to identify their own situation and circumstances. Too busy staving off their not-actually-imminent extinction to take advantage of their strengths and power. Throwing away those rhetorical constructs of multiculturalism and the "melting pot," exchanging them for exclusion and cultural ghettoization and demonization, losing sight of how this is a multi-generational endeavour out of fear of the imminent collapse of Canadian society. (Not that the other socio-ethnic demos prominently involved in this movement aren't also foolish, like the Hindus who fail to recognize its racist component or the Zionists allying with the white nationalists. Sigh.)
Damn, I had this excellent article on how Chinese students are failing to integrate into American universities, because their local communities are screwing up the outreach, leaving them isolated within Chinese student organizations often masterminded by Chinese government officials. But I can't find it now. I thought it was quite illuminating on how people who think we're in a "culture war" fail to understand the very "culture war" they claim is occurring, fail to identify their "enemy", fail to identify their objectives or winning conditions, fail to develop a strategy for it, essentially abandoning the battlefield before even firing a shot. Ironically, the article highlighted Christian groups as the only ones making significant efforts/inroads in outreach to Chinese students, but I guess it's easier not to think of Confucist Chinese nationalism as an "enemy" than Islam.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
Saying that secularism on its own would lead to a better society is entirely ignorant, atheists who spread hateful beliefs and primarily express their atheism in aggression towards, say, Muslims are incredibly common. Atheists are just as unreasonable as theists because both groups are comprised of humans.
I do want to live in a country where decisions are made purely on reason and not because a book said so 2000 years ago.
So yes I do believe secularism should be what we are moving towards. I would also say that a large majority of hate crimes have a religiously motivated background. Not many atheist groups promoting violence towards gays or other faiths on a pulpit a few times a week.
Just look at the worst aspect of the right here or down in the south. I don't think you can hear Leitch, pence or Cruz speak on a subject without bringing the Lord into it.
While there are definitely militant atheist I wholeheartedly disagree that it's a common thing.
If you look deeper at the original article I posted that started this debate the group opposing the prayer exemption are headed by the local Hindu organization that is staunchly anti Muslim and an organization of local churches not some collective of violent atheist.
Educating people about religioin isn't advocating for fucking theocracies, holy shit. And it's entirely possible to be religious and legislate effectively, just as it's possible to be atheist and make idiotic decisions.
Never said the opposite?
Learning about religion in a social science class can and should happen.
I'm I guess agnostic? But I have studied most religions extensively. The main thing you learn learning about religion is that very few actual religious people have ever read more than 5% of their respective religious texts.
We had mandatory religion classes at my Catholic High School like every year and I would hazard 95% of the people coming out of them learned nothing about their own religion.
I only did because the program I was in meant I only had them with a certain teacher who coincidentally was the best religion teacher in the school and not just one of the people who had connections and so instead of being let go during downsizing was transfered over to the religion department (basically the entire religion department was staffed this way from what I determined).
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
First, no, I don't paint every conservative in this country with the same brush. But sure, yell at me for something other people have said.
Second, my goose comment was more for when you advocated for eliminating all religion because it's all the same to you apparently. Literally your next line kind of demonstrates what I was talking about.
Third, how about we cut out the smug internet above the fray atheism, hmm? (The stuff about 'imaginary sky people' comes across like a middle schooler trying to be edgy). You're smart enough that you should know it's just going to detract from any kind of actual conversation. You can have a bit of self congratulatory catharsis, or you can actually have a civil discussion. I'm not even particularly religious, but that kind of attitude is exactly how you get people to knee-jerk in the opposite direction.
I will say, here in Nova Scotia, I can't remember religion ever being something that has really come up at all in education or politics, at least not in my experience, and I grew up around plenty of religious people. Though people around here tend to like their politics moderate and low key regardless of their personal views and circumstances, so it may just a coincidence.
When I graduated from university in 2005 clergy were directly involved in the ceremony, and it was only the year after that that provincial businesses were allowed without exception to operate on Sundays. We're not the deep-rural prairies or South Carolina, but this is a very, if mostly quietly, religious province.
Religion very much comes up in the province, but we're pretty monocultural compared to a lot of the country, which means it's taken for granted. It's only when people start running into different things that they begin reacting, because it's hard to see the default when you're part of it.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I will say, here in Nova Scotia, I can't remember religion ever being something that has really come up at all in education or politics, at least not in my experience, and I grew up around plenty of religious people. Though people around here tend to like their politics moderate and low key regardless of their personal views and circumstances, so it may just a coincidence.
When I graduated from university in 2005 clergy were directly involved in the ceremony, and it was only the year after that that provincial businesses were allowed without exception to operate on Sundays. We're not the deep-rural prairies or South Carolina, but this is a very, if mostly quietly, religious province.
Religion very much comes up in the province, but we're pretty monocultural compared to a lot of the country, which means it's taken for granted. It's only when people start running into different things that they begin reacting, because it's hard to see the default when you're part of it.
Yes.
It goes back to that saying: "Equality looks like oppression to those with privilege." Right now, in Canada, the people talking about a war on Christianity, or how Christians are persecuted, are saying that because they are being made to acknowledge other faiths' right to exist, not because anyone has anything against Christianity.
+7
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
I feel like I had a strange fortunate upbringing in a religious setting in an otherwise small town environment. Went to a Catholic grade school (because it was the best school in the town with only 1 other public school, plus all the Italian families sent their kids to the Catholic school and helped fund it/support it) but didn't really get overbearing religion in it. Religion class was there but viewed by everyone as an easy A. Only real coordination it had with the local Catholic church was helping all of the baptisms (less so, although we did have a baptism of a classmate when they had transferred over from the public school to our Catholic one), first communion, and confirmations (a lot more of this as it naturally happens later in grade school). But I've also played the piano for Churches and Church services growing up, which extended to whatever Church needed one (read: every church needs a new organist/pianist). So I got to see Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, & United church services on a regular basis. I learned more about the subtle differences between the Christian religions playing piano/organ for all of these Churches than I ever did in religion class in school.
And there were only ever I'd say a pair of negative experiences. The first was when I first branched out to help the United Church's services and the priest from the Catholic Church took me aside to go "It's great that you're helping, just don't accept communion since they're not Catholic." Which was like...okay, sure whatever, I guess? The other time was when the new pastor to the Lutheran Church was spreading talk about how Yoga was the work of the devil. He never said it openly, but since the Lutheran (and United) churches were like giant extended families in terms of how closeknit and community-oriented everyone was, rumour was spreading around and basically all of the church participants were wondering what the hell he was doing. That pastor didn't last long.
But like, actually managing to get out and witness a variety of Church practices did more for my personal understanding of both said Churches and the people that attend them, than religion class did. Probably would be more of a model for future religion classes in terms of approach.
De-clutter the courts - especially in the wake of the SCC ruling about speeding up things in an overburdened system! - and dropp nine or ten figures' worth of tax revenue into the national coffers?
I feel like I had a strange fortunate upbringing in a religious setting in an otherwise small town environment. Went to a Catholic grade school (because it was the best school in the town with only 1 other public school, plus all the Italian families sent their kids to the Catholic school and helped fund it/support it) but didn't really get overbearing religion in it. Religion class was there but viewed by everyone as an easy A. Only real coordination it had with the local Catholic church was helping all of the baptisms (less so, although we did have a baptism of a classmate when they had transferred over from the public school to our Catholic one), first communion, and confirmations (a lot more of this as it naturally happens later in grade school). But I've also played the piano for Churches and Church services growing up, which extended to whatever Church needed one (read: every church needs a new organist/pianist). So I got to see Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, & United church services on a regular basis. I learned more about the subtle differences between the Christian religions playing piano/organ for all of these Churches than I ever did in religion class in school.
And there were only ever I'd say a pair of negative experiences. The first was when I first branched out to help the United Church's services and the priest from the Catholic Church took me aside to go "It's great that you're helping, just don't accept communion since they're not Catholic." Which was like...okay, sure whatever, I guess? The other time was when the new pastor to the Lutheran Church was spreading talk about how Yoga was the work of the devil. He never said it openly, but since the Lutheran (and United) churches were like giant extended families in terms of how closeknit and community-oriented everyone was, rumour was spreading around and basically all of the church participants were wondering what the hell he was doing. That pastor didn't last long.
But like, actually managing to get out and witness a variety of Church practices did more for my personal understanding of both said Churches and the people that attend them, than religion class did. Probably would be more of a model for future religion classes in terms of approach.
That's, like, that's kind of a big deal.
Like seriously, from a religious perspective that's really fucking important.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Like seriously, from a religious perspective that's really fucking important.
Doctrinely? Sure. But when the Lutheran, Anglican, and United Churches didn't give a shit, and the other Catholic Church run by the local Bishop for the entire Diocese also didn't give a shit, I'm liable to jot that particular incident down to slight overzealousness.
Like seriously, from a religious perspective that's really fucking important.
Doctrinely? Sure. But when the Lutheran, Anglican, and United Churches didn't give a shit, and the other Catholic Church run by the local Bishop for the entire Diocese also didn't give a shit, I'm liable to jot that particular incident down to slight overzealousness.
I doubt they give a shit about you playing piano. Taking communion would be a big deal though.
You might need to explain to the crowd why it's a big deal. I have no idea what that is or why, and in googling the word communion:
-The sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level.
-The service of Christian worship at which bread and wine are consecrated and shared.
I'm just more confused, because both of those scenarios make me think "Uh... so fucking what?".
edit: Rereading that, I should probably make it crystal clear I'm not trying to be antagonistic. Just genuinely curious. "Don't talk about God and don't break bread with the enemy" feel like silly restrictions.
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"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
You might need to explain to the crowd why it's a big deal. I have no idea what that is or why, and in googling the word communion:
-The sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level.
-The service of Christian worship at which bread and wine are consecrated and shared.
I'm just more confused, because both of those scenarios make me think "Uh... so fucking what?".
edit: Rereading that, I should probably make it crystal clear I'm not trying to be antagonistic. Just genuinely curious. "Don't talk about God and don't break bread with the enemy" feel like silly restrictions.
Communion is one of the 7 Sacraments in Catholicism. It's as important as, say, Baptism or Holy Orders (ie - becoming a priest). It's like saying "Don't go getting baptized as an Anglican" or "Don't become a Baptist Minister" or the like.
The only thing strange about the whole thing to me is that he thought it necessary to even say it. It's kinda obvious imo.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
Saying that secularism on its own would lead to a better society is entirely ignorant, atheists who spread hateful beliefs and primarily express their atheism in aggression towards, say, Muslims are incredibly common. Atheists are just as unreasonable as theists because both groups are comprised of humans.
I do want to live in a country where decisions are made purely on reason and not because a book said so 2000 years ago.
So yes I do believe secularism should be what we are moving towards. I would also say that a large majority of hate crimes have a religiously motivated background. Not many atheist groups promoting violence towards gays or other faiths on a pulpit a few times a week.
Just look at the worst aspect of the right here or down in the south. I don't think you can hear Leitch, pence or Cruz speak on a subject without bringing the Lord into it.
While there are definitely militant atheist I wholeheartedly disagree that it's a common thing.
If you look deeper at the original article I posted that started this debate the group opposing the prayer exemption are headed by the local Hindu organization that is staunchly anti Muslim and an organization of local churches not some collective of violent atheist.
I think if you are joining an atheist group you are doing atheism wrong.
my day to day atheist thoughts are "what should I make for dinner" , "Should I buy this game" or "who the fuck actually likes marmalade"
I don't smoke/use marijuana currently and only ever smoked randomly at a party or something but I think this is a good thing for pretty much everyone.
4 plants per household is probably the only thing I'd take advantage of
While that's great, am I crazy or wasn't this scheduled to happen April 20th of this year only a few months ago?
You are crazy.
You only really gave us a binary response on this one though. It was rumored to drop on the 20th but will take months to get the provincial rules setup.
I wouldn't be in favour of a mandatory course and it'd probably take an essay to poorly convey why I feel that way
I do agree with removing religious exemptions for sexual education classes and really for anything at all.
Your fake spirit person/belief is as real as Optimus Prime.
Whatever fairy stories you tell yourself and each other shouldn't be included in the progress of the nation (i.e. sex education has demonstrable public benefits).
Agree with Richy about the vaccine stuff too for the same reasons.
Your hatred of religion doesn't negate how important it is in the world. Being ignorant of such important and world shaping factors won't make them go away.
I would argue that paying it attention also feeds it.
I'm tired of so much of our politics, education and worldview being shaped by people that believe in sky wizards.
You can argue it, but it's fucking silly and wrong.
The religious massively outnumber the irreligious. Even just in Canada. And religion is a huge influence on culture/art/etc anyway. This shit is important to know about.
I don't disagree.
I just personally want my society to move as quickly possible way to being purely secular.
While I can certainly understand where this attitude comes from (there are certainly prominent examples of people using religion for bad and regressive purposes), maybe you want to stop short of painting all followers of religion with the same brush. Criticism is fine, but you're being a bit of a goose.
This is still the same thread where anyone who votes conservative is called out and painted with that same brush, yes?
I don't think schools should be a place where religious worship happens. Not sure how that makes me a goose?
My personal beliefs are that religions (choose your flavor) primary reason for existence is allowing its followers to hate another group. I don't think such activities should be allowed on government ground and especially not where we teach reasoned thought.
Are all followers of religion unreasonable? Probably not but if you are spending time in your day praying to an imaginary person in the sky it makes it very hard for me to think otherwise....
Saying that secularism on its own would lead to a better society is entirely ignorant, atheists who spread hateful beliefs and primarily express their atheism in aggression towards, say, Muslims are incredibly common. Atheists are just as unreasonable as theists because both groups are comprised of humans.
I do want to live in a country where decisions are made purely on reason and not because a book said so 2000 years ago.
So yes I do believe secularism should be what we are moving towards. I would also say that a large majority of hate crimes have a religiously motivated background. Not many atheist groups promoting violence towards gays or other faiths on a pulpit a few times a week.
Just look at the worst aspect of the right here or down in the south. I don't think you can hear Leitch, pence or Cruz speak on a subject without bringing the Lord into it.
While there are definitely militant atheist I wholeheartedly disagree that it's a common thing.
If you look deeper at the original article I posted that started this debate the group opposing the prayer exemption are headed by the local Hindu organization that is staunchly anti Muslim and an organization of local churches not some collective of violent atheist.
I think if you are joining an atheist group you are doing atheism wrong.
my day to day atheist thoughts are "what should I make for dinner" , "Should I buy this game" or "who the fuck actually likes marmalade"
only time it really matters is when I vote.
Totally agree.
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BouwsTWanna come to a super soft birthday party?Registered Userregular
edited March 2017
Removed post: Was so far behind on the times, that I myself was WAY off topic. My bad.
BouwsT on
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
Out west? This conversation started with an article about a school board meeting in Toronto.
You know what? I apologize. That was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction on my part. I am working on doing that less often.
I will say, here in Nova Scotia, I can't remember religion ever being something that has really come up at all in education or politics, at least not in my experience, and I grew up around plenty of religious people. Though people around here tend to like their politics moderate and low key regardless of their personal views and circumstances, so it may just a coincidence.
This may be a generational thing. I can think of a few issues with it that came to a head.
1) Separate Catholic education - Nova Scotia never had a constitutionally mandated separate Catholic school system but did have a "gentleman's agreement" between Sir Charles Tupper and the Archbishop of Halifax that allowed for publicly funded Catholic schools with (for decades) Catholic religious as instructors. An example - before Citadel High, there used to be two high schools kitty corner from each other at the corner of Quinpool and Robie in Halifax (QEII and St. Pat's). From the 1930s (when it was built) until the late 1960s (IIRC) St. Pat's was the "Catholic high school" complete with Catholic clergy as instructors. This pattern was repeated in other towns throughout the province as well (my home town had the Catholic school literally next door to one of the Catholic church's and a five minute walk from the secular/non-denominational school). This was a major political issue involving the church and the NSTU (most of the Catholic teachers at the time were nuns and not represented by the union; when they got the religious out of teaching positions, a lot of these nuns left their orders and simply came back as secular teachers). This in itself is one of the biggest kettles of fish as there was an enormous amount of duplication in schools (these were largely replaced with more modern schools in the 1980s or the P3 schools of the 1990s).
2) Up until Charter challenge in (IIRC) 1984, there was literally mandatory Christian prayer in NS schools.
3) Several of the universities (IIRC - St. Mary's, St. F.X., MSVU) have appointed Catholic clergy on the board of governors or similar body.
4) When the sex ed curriculum was revised in the 1990s (this was the revision that introduced things like "homosexuality is a thing that exists") there was a deeply religious Liberal MP named Roseanne Skoke (she had defeated Peter McKAy's dad, Elmer, in the election where the PCs were wiped out) who threw a very public conniption fit over the proposed changes, the the extent that she tried to run for the leadership of the NS Liberal party on a socially conservative platform. IIRC this all fell apart when Frank Magazine had an issue about her teenage daughter's unplanned pregnancy, which Skoke deemed an "immaculate conception".
2) Up until Charter challenge in (IIRC) 1984, there was literally mandatory Christian prayer in NS schools.
Now I remember being in elementary school in Alberta and saying the Lords Prayer, I cant remember when we stopped reciting it, I dont recall saying it all the way through. Was that the same as mandatory Christian prayer or was it more than that in NS?
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
2) Up until Charter challenge in (IIRC) 1984, there was literally mandatory Christian prayer in NS schools.
Now I remember being in elementary school in Alberta and saying the Lords Prayer, I cant remember when we stopped reciting it, I dont recall saying it all the way through. Was that the same as mandatory Christian prayer or was it more than that in NS?
I don't remember ever saying the lords prayer in school. When were you in elementary school? I was '84-'90.
2) Up until Charter challenge in (IIRC) 1984, there was literally mandatory Christian prayer in NS schools.
Now I remember being in elementary school in Alberta and saying the Lords Prayer, I cant remember when we stopped reciting it, I dont recall saying it all the way through. Was that the same as mandatory Christian prayer or was it more than that in NS?
Admittedly this is before my time. However, I have relatives who were in the public school system in NS prior to 1984, and no, they never had anything like that. I can't say that it never happened anywhere, but I feel like it may have been "technically on the books but not actually in practice" in a lot of situations.
2) Up until Charter challenge in (IIRC) 1984, there was literally mandatory Christian prayer in NS schools.
Now I remember being in elementary school in Alberta and saying the Lords Prayer, I cant remember when we stopped reciting it, I dont recall saying it all the way through. Was that the same as mandatory Christian prayer or was it more than that in NS?
I don't remember ever saying the lords prayer in school. When were you in elementary school? I was '84-'90.
Yea that's about right for me, I went to Vincent Massey in Medicine Hat.
2) Up until Charter challenge in (IIRC) 1984, there was literally mandatory Christian prayer in NS schools.
Now I remember being in elementary school in Alberta and saying the Lords Prayer, I cant remember when we stopped reciting it, I dont recall saying it all the way through. Was that the same as mandatory Christian prayer or was it more than that in NS?
I don't remember ever saying the lords prayer in school. When were you in elementary school? I was '84-'90.
I did in kindergarten... Think it died out in Grade 1 for me... which would have been 1992ish?
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Glenbow Elementary in Cochrane.
Huh. Rocky View School Division #41. Can't believe I remember that.
Wonder if it was school division specific or actually school specific.
I would assume district would control that. Its interesting looking back at it as a kid. It was just some words, it was short and not as cool as O'Canada cause at least you sang that. I am going to assume that the successful ruling in 88 kaiboshed the Lords prayer or at least got the folks in the district to rethink having it. I dont recall saying it in grade 6.
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GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
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Also, on a practical note, since we allow private religious schools, at least in Ontario, banning prayer by students in public schools won't actually do much to limit religious exposure of those individuals. They'll just be pulled from public schools and sent to more accommodating private ones.
I am the one you are quoting and that's not what that sentence means considering, again, we've been talking about it this whole time.
Ironically, students will become less exposed to religious diversity and more set in their family's beliefs in that scenario.
Saying that secularism on its own would lead to a better society is entirely ignorant, atheists who spread hateful beliefs and primarily express their atheism in aggression towards, say, Muslims are incredibly common. Atheists are just as unreasonable as theists because both groups are comprised of humans.
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So, this is why mandatory religious education should be a thing. Stating that religions exist primarily for the followers to have a reason to hate another group is insane and wildly off base. This line of reasoning is why we have random crazies claiming Islam is a religion of hate, and contributes to the hate motivated attacks against its followers.
If you are actually interested, this page has a couple tables that do a reasonable job at boiling down some of the major religions: Link
Although it is a little Christian-centric, given who wrote it and what I view as a misinterpretation of Satan in Judaism. By the way, I grew up Athiest and attended public school, I have never really attended church beyond Christmas services with grandparents and friend's weddings. Being Athiest and secular does not magically negate the importance of religion in our world.
I do want to live in a country where decisions are made purely on reason and not because a book said so 2000 years ago.
So yes I do believe secularism should be what we are moving towards. I would also say that a large majority of hate crimes have a religiously motivated background. Not many atheist groups promoting violence towards gays or other faiths on a pulpit a few times a week.
Just look at the worst aspect of the right here or down in the south. I don't think you can hear Leitch, pence or Cruz speak on a subject without bringing the Lord into it.
While there are definitely militant atheist I wholeheartedly disagree that it's a common thing.
If you look deeper at the original article I posted that started this debate the group opposing the prayer exemption are headed by the local Hindu organization that is staunchly anti Muslim and an organization of local churches not some collective of violent atheist.
Educating people about religioin isn't advocating for fucking theocracies, holy shit. And it's entirely possible to be religious and legislate effectively, just as it's possible to be atheist and make idiotic decisions.
If anything, wouldn't educating people about the plethora of religions out there tend to promote secularism? It did for me, at least, as I came to understood that Christians actually believed all sorts of different crap, that these supposedly organized religions were just ontological constructs of fragmented belief systems lumped together for in convenient abstractions. It revealed to me the flaw of Pascal's Wager - though I hadn't learned about that formally yet - that to believe or not to believe wasn't a binary choice, but rather we also had to choose what to believe, and since I could not ascertain any particular rational reason people would choose to believe one set of religious beliefs over another set - and, if anything, people's beliefs tended to correlate much more strongly with parental beliefs and socio-geographical context - that was one of the key factors that pushed me away from organized religion.
TL;DR: Learning about different religious beliefs convinced me that none of their individual claims to correctness/primacy were trustworthy and that religion was a humanist phenomenon more than a divine one.
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More broadly, I am bemused at how quickly the West has lost faith in the compelling quality of its culture. It didn't seem that long ago that Coca-Cola, McDonald's and Wonderbra were considered key players in the defeat of Communism and the Warsaw Pact, that there was exceeding confidence that Western consumer culture would transform communist China and the rest of the world, and that immigrants - or their children - would inevitably integrate under the sheer pressure of our popular culture.
And now, cultural anxiety amongst white folk is higher than I've ever observed in my lifetime, a fact made all the stranger given that social media and the Internet seem to have increased the reach of Western cultural media into our everyday lives and have subsumed individuals in socio-commercial networks of influence. Where once I saw a somewhat uncritical, unstrategic overconfidence in Western cultural supremacy, now I see a foolish anxiety leading to self-sabotage. Concerted anti-Muslim sentiments are, if anything, driving Muslim youth back into their own circles, isolating them from broader multicultural society. The more people rant and rave about the niqab, the more Muslim girls are donning them. Instead of letting them find their own identities, and trusting - perhaps overconfidently - that they'll find those within the broader Canadian/Western social milieu, we deny them any option other than the brown, Muslim outsider identity.
So yeah. I mean. Sure. Forbid Muslim students from praying in public schools. Then they go to Muslim private schools, with only other Muslim students. Cut out religious classes in school, then they only learn about religion from biased proselytizing organizations. (Just like with sex ed. If they don't learn it in school from responsible sources, they'll learn it elsewhere.) Tell Muslim youth that they'll never be anything but suspiciously brown foreigners, then they'll never aspire to find acceptance. Insist that the right to free speech protects Islamophobic rants, and they'll never respect our principles and philosophies. Protest against mosques or halal businesses in your neighbourhood, and Muslims will just congregate into isolated enclaves of their own creation.
Conservative, Islamophobic, anti-immigrant, white, Christian Canadians are operating from such a siege mentality... it's like a winning sports team intent on throwing the game, playing from a position of weakness when they're in a position of strength. Just... an utterly abject failure to identify their own situation and circumstances. Too busy staving off their not-actually-imminent extinction to take advantage of their strengths and power. Throwing away those rhetorical constructs of multiculturalism and the "melting pot," exchanging them for exclusion and cultural ghettoization and demonization, losing sight of how this is a multi-generational endeavour out of fear of the imminent collapse of Canadian society. (Not that the other socio-ethnic demos prominently involved in this movement aren't also foolish, like the Hindus who fail to recognize its racist component or the Zionists allying with the white nationalists. Sigh.)
Damn, I had this excellent article on how Chinese students are failing to integrate into American universities, because their local communities are screwing up the outreach, leaving them isolated within Chinese student organizations often masterminded by Chinese government officials. But I can't find it now. I thought it was quite illuminating on how people who think we're in a "culture war" fail to understand the very "culture war" they claim is occurring, fail to identify their "enemy", fail to identify their objectives or winning conditions, fail to develop a strategy for it, essentially abandoning the battlefield before even firing a shot. Ironically, the article highlighted Christian groups as the only ones making significant efforts/inroads in outreach to Chinese students, but I guess it's easier not to think of Confucist Chinese nationalism as an "enemy" than Islam.
Never said the opposite?
Learning about religion in a social science class can and should happen.
We had mandatory religion classes at my Catholic High School like every year and I would hazard 95% of the people coming out of them learned nothing about their own religion.
I only did because the program I was in meant I only had them with a certain teacher who coincidentally was the best religion teacher in the school and not just one of the people who had connections and so instead of being let go during downsizing was transfered over to the religion department (basically the entire religion department was staffed this way from what I determined).
First, no, I don't paint every conservative in this country with the same brush. But sure, yell at me for something other people have said.
Second, my goose comment was more for when you advocated for eliminating all religion because it's all the same to you apparently. Literally your next line kind of demonstrates what I was talking about.
Third, how about we cut out the smug internet above the fray atheism, hmm? (The stuff about 'imaginary sky people' comes across like a middle schooler trying to be edgy). You're smart enough that you should know it's just going to detract from any kind of actual conversation. You can have a bit of self congratulatory catharsis, or you can actually have a civil discussion. I'm not even particularly religious, but that kind of attitude is exactly how you get people to knee-jerk in the opposite direction.
I do wonder if he realizes that this will disproportionately affect his side of the isle?
When I graduated from university in 2005 clergy were directly involved in the ceremony, and it was only the year after that that provincial businesses were allowed without exception to operate on Sundays. We're not the deep-rural prairies or South Carolina, but this is a very, if mostly quietly, religious province.
Religion very much comes up in the province, but we're pretty monocultural compared to a lot of the country, which means it's taken for granted. It's only when people start running into different things that they begin reacting, because it's hard to see the default when you're part of it.
Yes.
It goes back to that saying: "Equality looks like oppression to those with privilege." Right now, in Canada, the people talking about a war on Christianity, or how Christians are persecuted, are saying that because they are being made to acknowledge other faiths' right to exist, not because anyone has anything against Christianity.
And there were only ever I'd say a pair of negative experiences. The first was when I first branched out to help the United Church's services and the priest from the Catholic Church took me aside to go "It's great that you're helping, just don't accept communion since they're not Catholic." Which was like...okay, sure whatever, I guess? The other time was when the new pastor to the Lutheran Church was spreading talk about how Yoga was the work of the devil. He never said it openly, but since the Lutheran (and United) churches were like giant extended families in terms of how closeknit and community-oriented everyone was, rumour was spreading around and basically all of the church participants were wondering what the hell he was doing. That pastor didn't last long.
But like, actually managing to get out and witness a variety of Church practices did more for my personal understanding of both said Churches and the people that attend them, than religion class did. Probably would be more of a model for future religion classes in terms of approach.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-legal-marijuana-pot-1.4041902
That's gonna be a good Canada day
I don't smoke/use marijuana currently and only ever smoked randomly at a party or something but I think this is a good thing for pretty much everyone.
4 plants per household is probably the only thing I'd take advantage of
Hey, works for me.
That's, like, that's kind of a big deal.
Like seriously, from a religious perspective that's really fucking important.
Doctrinely? Sure. But when the Lutheran, Anglican, and United Churches didn't give a shit, and the other Catholic Church run by the local Bishop for the entire Diocese also didn't give a shit, I'm liable to jot that particular incident down to slight overzealousness.
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I doubt they give a shit about you playing piano. Taking communion would be a big deal though.
I'm just more confused, because both of those scenarios make me think "Uh... so fucking what?".
edit: Rereading that, I should probably make it crystal clear I'm not trying to be antagonistic. Just genuinely curious. "Don't talk about God and don't break bread with the enemy" feel like silly restrictions.
Communion is one of the 7 Sacraments in Catholicism. It's as important as, say, Baptism or Holy Orders (ie - becoming a priest). It's like saying "Don't go getting baptized as an Anglican" or "Don't become a Baptist Minister" or the like.
The only thing strange about the whole thing to me is that he thought it necessary to even say it. It's kinda obvious imo.
I think if you are joining an atheist group you are doing atheism wrong.
my day to day atheist thoughts are "what should I make for dinner" , "Should I buy this game" or "who the fuck actually likes marmalade"
only time it really matters is when I vote.
Would you say it's against atheism orthodoxy? :P
While that's great, am I crazy or wasn't this scheduled to happen April 20th of this year only a few months ago?
You are crazy.
You only really gave us a binary response on this one though. It was rumored to drop on the 20th but will take months to get the provincial rules setup.
Totally agree.
This may be a generational thing. I can think of a few issues with it that came to a head.
1) Separate Catholic education - Nova Scotia never had a constitutionally mandated separate Catholic school system but did have a "gentleman's agreement" between Sir Charles Tupper and the Archbishop of Halifax that allowed for publicly funded Catholic schools with (for decades) Catholic religious as instructors. An example - before Citadel High, there used to be two high schools kitty corner from each other at the corner of Quinpool and Robie in Halifax (QEII and St. Pat's). From the 1930s (when it was built) until the late 1960s (IIRC) St. Pat's was the "Catholic high school" complete with Catholic clergy as instructors. This pattern was repeated in other towns throughout the province as well (my home town had the Catholic school literally next door to one of the Catholic church's and a five minute walk from the secular/non-denominational school). This was a major political issue involving the church and the NSTU (most of the Catholic teachers at the time were nuns and not represented by the union; when they got the religious out of teaching positions, a lot of these nuns left their orders and simply came back as secular teachers). This in itself is one of the biggest kettles of fish as there was an enormous amount of duplication in schools (these were largely replaced with more modern schools in the 1980s or the P3 schools of the 1990s).
2) Up until Charter challenge in (IIRC) 1984, there was literally mandatory Christian prayer in NS schools.
3) Several of the universities (IIRC - St. Mary's, St. F.X., MSVU) have appointed Catholic clergy on the board of governors or similar body.
4) When the sex ed curriculum was revised in the 1990s (this was the revision that introduced things like "homosexuality is a thing that exists") there was a deeply religious Liberal MP named Roseanne Skoke (she had defeated Peter McKAy's dad, Elmer, in the election where the PCs were wiped out) who threw a very public conniption fit over the proposed changes, the the extent that she tried to run for the leadership of the NS Liberal party on a socially conservative platform. IIRC this all fell apart when Frank Magazine had an issue about her teenage daughter's unplanned pregnancy, which Skoke deemed an "immaculate conception".
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Now I remember being in elementary school in Alberta and saying the Lords Prayer, I cant remember when we stopped reciting it, I dont recall saying it all the way through. Was that the same as mandatory Christian prayer or was it more than that in NS?
I don't remember ever saying the lords prayer in school. When were you in elementary school? I was '84-'90.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
Admittedly this is before my time. However, I have relatives who were in the public school system in NS prior to 1984, and no, they never had anything like that. I can't say that it never happened anywhere, but I feel like it may have been "technically on the books but not actually in practice" in a lot of situations.
Yea that's about right for me, I went to Vincent Massey in Medicine Hat.
I did in kindergarten... Think it died out in Grade 1 for me... which would have been 1992ish?
Huh. Rocky View School Division #41. Can't believe I remember that.
Wonder if it was school division specific or actually school specific.
I was at Penson in Grovedale in the 80's and it wasn't there. Just the national anthem.
Wait, they did prayer at Glenbow Elementary? I went there '96-'00 and we never did that.