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The End of an Era -- Asheron's Call 11/2/1999 - 01/31/2017

RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazedby the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
A few hours ago the servers were shut off for the last time on Asheron's Call, one of the original 3D MMOs in existence.

kara_quiet.jpg

Back in the day, this was my motherfucking jam. Everquest was the big popular game, but AC was so, so different. Unique world lore, magic system, creatures, skill systems. Completely open world. You could run from one side of the main map to the other, which would take hours and hours to do, and never hit a loading screen. Built-in patron/vassal system for guilds.

911vigil.jpg

For about four years, this was my obsession. I lived in AC. Living in Eastham on the Frostfell server, running up to the portals to Arwic to hit the subway. The Shadow Wars. Portal Tie exploits allowing me to power-level in the Focusing Stone dungeon. Doing the Towers run over and over again to farm the chests. Creating my Hollow Hunting suit by collecting marble and buffing up the bludgeoning resistance to farm keys from virindi.

51D93Z90B9L.jpg

This game was something special, and it was around for a long, long time. It's longevity is remarkable, but now it's gone.

Pouring one out tonight for a very special game.

8406wWN.png
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    The first MMO I ever played.

    Holy shit that was a long time ago.

    It's only now going offline?

    I do believe I quit forever after I kept dying while trying to corpse run and I ended up losing basically all of my gear. I was in the...9th grade at the time? Maybe 10th?

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    It's always sad to me when one of the old mmos dies.

    I'll never understand why they don't just release the server code to the wild once they decide they don't want to support anymore. There's still people who play these games and the old mmo communities were always very strong.

    https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/the-74-year-old-grandpa-who-doesnt-want-asherons-call-to-shut-down

    Let this old man play his game :(

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Asheron's what?

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    Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    But what of City of Heroes? Who mourns its death? Who prays for its dammed soul?

    Serious though. I had no idea Asherons Call was still around. That's some Damm longevity!

    Macro9 on
    58pwo4vxupcr.png
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    jaziekjaziek Bad at everything And mad about it.Registered User regular
    rhylith wrote: »
    It's always sad to me when one of the old mmos dies.

    I'll never understand why they don't just release the server code to the wild once they decide they don't want to support anymore. There's still people who play these games and the old mmo communities were always very strong.

    https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/the-74-year-old-grandpa-who-doesnt-want-asherons-call-to-shut-down

    Let this old man play his game :(

    I get the feeling that's probably gonna be quite a lot of people with WoW at some point.

    Steam ||| SC2 - Jaziek.377 on EU & NA. ||| Twitch Stream
  • Options
    rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    jaziek wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    It's always sad to me when one of the old mmos dies.

    I'll never understand why they don't just release the server code to the wild once they decide they don't want to support anymore. There's still people who play these games and the old mmo communities were always very strong.

    https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/the-74-year-old-grandpa-who-doesnt-want-asherons-call-to-shut-down

    Let this old man play his game :(

    I get the feeling that's probably gonna be quite a lot of people with WoW at some point.

    Wow still has more subscribers than most mmos combined. It ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Macro9 wrote: »
    But what of City of Heroes? Who mourns its death? Who prays for its dammed soul?

    Serious though. I had no idea Asherons Call was still around. That's some Damm longevity!

    lots of people complain about city of heroes being dead constantly around here

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    Aren't there tons of private servers for WoW. I think those filthy thieves will be fine.

    58pwo4vxupcr.png
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Macro9 wrote: »
    But what of City of Heroes? Who mourns its death? Who prays for its dammed soul?

    Serious though. I had no idea Asherons Call was still around. That's some Damm longevity!

    lots of people complain about city of heroes being dead constantly around here

    That's just @The Geebs That Knows Everything About Animorphs and his hundreds of alt accounts

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    Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    Macro9 wrote: »
    But what of City of Heroes? Who mourns its death? Who prays for its dammed soul?

    Serious though. I had no idea Asherons Call was still around. That's some Damm longevity!

    lots of people complain about city of heroes being dead constantly around here

    I don't see it so it can't be real! I hope they do though. PA groups were the best groups! Seriously miss playing with so many of you goofballs.

    58pwo4vxupcr.png
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    RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2017
    I once spent months collecting scrap marble -- meaning finding high-value trophy items dropping randomly off of creatures that were made of marble and scrapping them -- to customize my armor set. This was a tedious and dangerous process -- every time you customize your armor, the more likely it is to break and disappear permanently.

    I made a full set of super high AC bludgeon-resistant armor for hunting Hollows. Hollows were creatures that would do bludgeoning damage, but their damage ignored magic buffs to bludgeoning resistance, meaning crafting was the only way to increase resistance.

    Eventually I ended up with one of the highest bludgeon resistance armor sets on the server. This was a big, big deal. Hunting hollows meant farming virindi keys, which were used to open virindi chests, which contained the best loot in the game at the time.

    One night, suuuuuper late, I was fighting some hollows and got myself in trouble. I quickly Lifestone Recalled (cast a spell to return myself safely to my respawn point), but was killed right as I was portalling out.

    When I spawned, my corpse was underneath the lifestone. Inaccessible.

    In Asheron's Call, when you died you dropped a number of your most valuable items. This meant most players kept a bunch of death items -- super valuable trophies, usually orbs, wands, gems, low weight/high value objects. Otherwise you risk dropping your weapons or armor and being in a shitload of trouble.

    I select my corpse and examine it. On it, of course, is my armor. My insanely, insanely valuable armor. I could have sold it for $500 or more, easily. I press the key to get my items and my character walks toward it, but can't get close enough to pick up the items.

    OH FUCK.

    No matter what I do, I cannot get ahold of a server mod. It's like 3 am or later. Nobody is on. I spam global channel. I start server hopping. People come from all around to see if they can get it, either to help or to try and steal some insanely valuable gear.

    After an hour, my corpse vanishes. Gone forever.

    I was broken hearted, and quit the game for months after that.

    Rankenphile on
    8406wWN.png
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    RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    I still have CoH installed on my home computer. Forever.

    8406wWN.png
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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    That is a heart wrenching story.

    I remember quitting games out of rage for losing an hour's worth of progress.

    I would have openly wept.

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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    It's interesting to me that newer MMOs have such a hard time getting traction, and how divisive sequels can be

    It's a very different and far more complex market than most other games are, and it's a shame that the only one I played a whole ton as a kid, Guild Wars, is basically dead - GW2 is one of the rare successful MMO sequels but I'm not a fan of it because it's such a differetn game to GW1

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    I once spent months collecting scrap marble -- meaning finding high-value trophy items dropping randomly off of creatures that were made of marble and scrapping them -- to customize my armor set. This was a tedious and dangerous process -- every time you customize your armor, the more likely it is to break and disappear permanently.

    I made a full set of super high AC bludgeon-resistant armor for hunting Hollows. Hollows were creatures that would do bludgeoning damage, but their damage ignored magic bugs to bludgeoning resistance, meaning crafting was the only way to increase resistance.

    Eventually I ended up with one of the highest bludgeon resistance armor sets on the server. This was a big, big deal. Hunting hollows meant farming virindi keys, which were used to open virindi chests, which contained the best loot in the game at the time.

    One night, suuuuuper late, I was fighting some hollows and got myself in trouble. I quickly Lifestone Recalled (cast a spell to return myself safely to my respawn point), but was killed right as I was portalling out.

    When I spawned, my corpse was underneath the lifestone. Inaccessible.

    In Asheron's Call, when you died you dropped a number of your most valuable items. This meant most players kept a bunch of death items -- super valuable trophies, usually orbs, wands, gems, low weight/high value objects. Otherwise you risk dropping your weapons or armor and being in a shitload of trouble.

    I select my corpse and examine it. On it, of course, is my armor. My insanely, insanely valuable armor. I could have sold it for $500 or more, easily. I press the key to get my items and my character walks toward it, but can't get close enough to pick up the items.

    OH FUCK.

    No matter what I do, I cannot get ahold of a server mod. It's like 3 am or later. Nobody is on. I spam global channel. I start server hopping. People come from all around to see if they can get it, either to help or to try and steal some insanely valuable gear.

    After an hour, my corpse vanishes. Gone forever.

    I was broken hearted, and quit the game for months after that.

    Hah, oh shit, that's fucking tragic.

  • Options
    Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    I once spent months collecting scrap marble -- meaning finding high-value trophy items dropping randomly off of creatures that were made of marble and scrapping them -- to customize my armor set. This was a tedious and dangerous process -- every time you customize your armor, the more likely it is to break and disappear permanently.

    I made a full set of super high AC bludgeon-resistant armor for hunting Hollows. Hollows were creatures that would do bludgeoning damage, but their damage ignored magic buffs to bludgeoning resistance, meaning crafting was the only way to increase resistance.

    Eventually I ended up with one of the highest bludgeon resistance armor sets on the server. This was a big, big deal. Hunting hollows meant farming virindi keys, which were used to open virindi chests, which contained the best loot in the game at the time.

    One night, suuuuuper late, I was fighting some hollows and got myself in trouble. I quickly Lifestone Recalled (cast a spell to return myself safely to my respawn point), but was killed right as I was portalling out.

    When I spawned, my corpse was underneath the lifestone. Inaccessible.

    In Asheron's Call, when you died you dropped a number of your most valuable items. This meant most players kept a bunch of death items -- super valuable trophies, usually orbs, wands, gems, low weight/high value objects. Otherwise you risk dropping your weapons or armor and being in a shitload of trouble.

    I select my corpse and examine it. On it, of course, is my armor. My insanely, insanely valuable armor. I could have sold it for $500 or more, easily. I press the key to get my items and my character walks toward it, but can't get close enough to pick up the items.

    OH FUCK.

    No matter what I do, I cannot get ahold of a server mod. It's like 3 am or later. Nobody is on. I spam global channel. I start server hopping. People come from all around to see if they can get it, either to help or to try and steal some insanely valuable gear.

    After an hour, my corpse vanishes. Gone forever.

    I was broken hearted, and quit the game for months after that.

    Holy shit! I don't know if could even deal with that.
    I still have CoH installed on my home computer. Forever.

    I don't have it installed but I still have a ton of boxes and cds maps and other stuff. I would snatch up cheap box copies whenever I saw them for the time codes and to support the game further. Don't think I'll throw those away.

    Macro9 on
    58pwo4vxupcr.png
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    The only MMO I really got into at all was Ultima Online

    and that's mostly for the fact that you could goof around and do weird shit and not actually fight monsters

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    L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    I played it back in the day, but I never had the maturity to really enjoy it.

    I think I may have made it into the mid teens as far as levels, every time I tried.

    Stupid materials and spellcasting was the worst. Just the worst. Attack, fizzle, burn a mat. Always being encumbered and broke because everything had to be spent on mats. All the time.

    I am kind of sad to see it go, but it hasn't really been relevant to me for a long time.
    I do have friends who I'm sure were playing it up until it finally went down.

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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    I played EVE for a little while but lord knows that game is like a second job and I just did not have time to stay into it

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    rhylith wrote: »
    jaziek wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    It's always sad to me when one of the old mmos dies.

    I'll never understand why they don't just release the server code to the wild once they decide they don't want to support anymore. There's still people who play these games and the old mmo communities were always very strong.

    https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/the-74-year-old-grandpa-who-doesnt-want-asherons-call-to-shut-down

    Let this old man play his game :(

    I get the feeling that's probably gonna be quite a lot of people with WoW at some point.

    Wow still has more subscribers than most mmos combined. It ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

    Wow is a whopping five years older than Asheron's Call.

    Five Years.

    Five years.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Everquest is somehow still going.

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    TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    bring back warhammer online.

    I want to get the choppiest choppers.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I never played AC myself but my friend always raved about it, he loved the vast, seamless open world, that shit was a big deal back then.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    I just looked up an other old MMO to see if it's still around, and I'll be damned but it is. Anyone else remember Second Life? That game had a lot of really cool stuff in it, I should reinstall it soon

    JtgVX0H.png
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    jgeisjgeis Registered User regular
    Despite being a huge geek that lives on the internet, I haven't ever played an MMO. None of them really struck me in strong enough way to pay a monthly fee or whatever.

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    The idea of MMOs always appealed to me, but in practice it's never worked out.

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    jaziekjaziek Bad at everything And mad about it.Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Darmak wrote: »
    I just looked up an other old MMO to see if it's still around, and I'll be damned but it is. Anyone else remember Second Life? That game had a lot of really cool stuff in it, I should reinstall it soon

    One of those things that I'm very happy to experience at a distance.

    And that distance is YouTube videos making fun of it.

    jaziek on
    Steam ||| SC2 - Jaziek.377 on EU & NA. ||| Twitch Stream
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    rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    bring back warhammer online.

    I want to get the choppiest choppers.

    Warhammer online tried to implement too many things from WoW rather than borrow heavily from the fantastic MMO they had already developed, all to the detriment of the PvP that was supposed to be the centerpiece of the game.

    The things it did well, like separate offense/defense targets so healers could more easily participate in combat while still healing, should totally be borrowed by other MMOs.

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Macro9 wrote: »
    But what of City of Heroes? Who mourns its death? Who prays for its dammed soul?

    Serious though. I had no idea Asherons Call was still around. That's some Damm longevity!

    lots of people complain about city of heroes being dead constantly around here

    That's just @The Geebs That Knows Everything About Animorphs and his hundreds of alt accounts

    really it's me and the entire mod staff, basically

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I managed WoW way back before any expansions but I never leveled higher than 35.

    I played FFXI in the old G&T linkshell but again... Never made it far.

    Once it starts taking FOREVER to accomplish things I lose interest.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I played FFXI before I got into WoW.

    Going from AC to FFXI was utterly mindblowing.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    A brilliant thing about Asheron's Call, when it first came out, was the Spell Economy.

    Magic worked differently in Ac than it did in any other game I've ever played. Spells required components. You only knew a couple of spells, based on what magic schools you trained on character creation, but you could spam attempts at casting a spell all you wanted to try to cast them. If you did so successfully, you got XP in that skill and it went up a little. You put them in a certain order in your spell tab, and if you were high enough level in that school of magic and had them in the right order, you could cast a spell.

    It's been a long time, but here's what I recall:

    SCARAB: Metal object, determined level of spell.
    HERB: Various flowers and plants
    GEMS: Powdered gemstones. Can be purchased or made by grinding up stones.
    ALCHEMICAL: Quicksilver, brimstone, etc. From what I recall, these determined the element of the spell
    TALISMANS: I believe these determined the form of the spell (cone, bolt, wall, etc)
    TAPER: Colored candles. These were the real kicker.

    See, you didn't know that many spells to begin with. Depending on the components combination, you could cast all kinds of different spells. Buffs, attack spells, you name it. You could use War Magic to cast ranged attack spells in various forms (walls, bolts, volleys, etc) in each of the seven elements (Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, Piercing, Bludgeoning and Slashing). You could use Creature Magic to buff or debuff every skill in the game. You can use life to heal or harm or cast protection or vulnerability spells to every element in the game. You can cast Item Spells to buff stats to be stronger or weaker to every item in the game on nearly any item, and also Item Magic meant portal spells for some reason.

    But the formula for each spell was the same for every caster -- when you cast Fireball, it always had the same components, regardless of level, except for the Scarab. With me so far? You could even get a hint at what that spell combination was from the "magic words". You see, casting a spell meant you said those words in chat. That meant that, if you figured out the combination you could learn any spell in the game.

    Except for tapers.

    Each spell required a taper for level 1, and 2 tapers for level two or higher. And those tapers were unique to each player. What tapers I used for Lighting Bolt 3 were different from what you would use. That meant that you had to try combinations over and over, hoping you had enough skill in that school, to successfully learn that spell. Once you cast it, you could keep it in your spellbook and cast it whenever you wanted.

    The order of the tapers was the biggest mystery in the game when it launched. It was a huge, huge deal. And if you figured it out, you were incentivized to keep it to yourself.

    How? Spell Economy.

    For the first six months to a year, from what I recall, there was a Spell Economy. That meant that the more people were using a specific spell, the less powerful it would become. Magic secrets were jealously hoarded, and people would learn high-level spells that were totally unknown and protect them at all costs. It was brilliant.

    I remember spending an entire three day weekend with two friends, huddled around notebooks, working together to figure out the combination. Eventually we cracked it, and it was incredible. We were gods.

    Eventually the combination was cracked. It turns out the seed for the randomizer was your account login. A tool was created called SweetPea, and you enter your account name into it, it tells you the exact combination for every spell in the game. Once that cat was out of the bag it didn't take long for the spell economy to no longer make sense and it was removed. But for a while? Magic felt arcane. You literally studied your craft, working out bizarre combinations of obscure elements, cracking the code of a magic language, studied how other casters were able to weave these spells together so that you could harness the secret power for yourself. It was brilliant.

    8406wWN.png
  • Options
    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    A brilliant thing about Asheron's Call, when it first came out, was the Spell Economy.

    Magic worked differently in Ac than it did in any other game I've ever played. Spells required components. You only knew a couple of spells, based on what magic schools you trained on character creation, but you could spam attempts at casting a spell all you wanted to try to cast them. If you did so successfully, you got XP in that skill and it went up a little. You put them in a certain order in your spell tab, and if you were high enough level in that school of magic and had them in the right order, you could cast a spell.

    It's been a long time, but here's what I recall:

    SCARAB: Metal object, determined level of spell.
    HERB: Various flowers and plants
    GEMS: Powdered gemstones. Can be purchased or made by grinding up stones.
    ALCHEMICAL: Quicksilver, brimstone, etc. From what I recall, these determined the element of the spell
    TALISMANS: I believe these determined the form of the spell (cone, bolt, wall, etc)
    TAPER: Colored candles. These were the real kicker.

    See, you didn't know that many spells to begin with. Depending on the components combination, you could cast all kinds of different spells. Buffs, attack spells, you name it. You could use War Magic to cast ranged attack spells in various forms (walls, bolts, volleys, etc) in each of the seven elements (Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, Piercing, Bludgeoning and Slashing). You could use Creature Magic to buff or debuff every skill in the game. You can use life to heal or harm or cast protection or vulnerability spells to every element in the game. You can cast Item Spells to buff stats to be stronger or weaker to every item in the game on nearly any item, and also Item Magic meant portal spells for some reason.

    But the formula for each spell was the same for every caster -- when you cast Fireball, it always had the same components, regardless of level, except for the Scarab. With me so far? You could even get a hint at what that spell combination was from the "magic words". You see, casting a spell meant you said those words in chat. That meant that, if you figured out the combination you could learn any spell in the game.

    Except for tapers.

    Each spell required a taper for level 1, and 2 tapers for level two or higher. And those tapers were unique to each player. What tapers I used for Lighting Bolt 3 were different from what you would use. That meant that you had to try combinations over and over, hoping you had enough skill in that school, to successfully learn that spell. Once you cast it, you could keep it in your spellbook and cast it whenever you wanted.

    The order of the tapers was the biggest mystery in the game when it launched. It was a huge, huge deal. And if you figured it out, you were incentivized to keep it to yourself.

    How? Spell Economy.

    For the first six months to a year, from what I recall, there was a Spell Economy. That meant that the more people were using a specific spell, the less powerful it would become. Magic secrets were jealously hoarded, and people would learn high-level spells that were totally unknown and protect them at all costs. It was brilliant.

    I remember spending an entire three day weekend with two friends, huddled around notebooks, working together to figure out the combination. Eventually we cracked it, and it was incredible. We were gods.

    Eventually the combination was cracked. It turns out the seed for the randomizer was your account login. A tool was created called SweetPea, and you enter your account name into it, it tells you the exact combination for every spell in the game. Once that cat was out of the bag it didn't take long for the spell economy to no longer make sense and it was removed. But for a while? Magic felt arcane. You literally studied your craft, working out bizarre combinations of obscure elements, cracking the code of a magic language, studied how other casters were able to weave these spells together so that you could harness the secret power for yourself. It was brilliant.

    It was called SplitPea

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    TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    Rank that sounds agonizingly cool.

    Cooler than anything anyone would do in an mmorpg today... :(

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    While that makes a great story that is absolutely horrible game design.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Gennenalyse RuebenGennenalyse Rueben The Prettiest Boy is Ridiculously Pretty Registered User regular
    I feel kinship with those who lose long-running MMOs they enjoyed. Something special is gone forever whenever one of these go away.

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    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    I dunno, that sounds fucking awesome, and I would love to see something like that implemented in an Elder Scrolls game or something.

    Make those Mages Guilds useful

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    While that makes a great story that is absolutely horrible game design.

    I dunno it depends on how essential it is to the gameplay to know specific spells, it obviously doesn't make sense in a class-based game where you have your wizards and your clerics decided at character creation but it would have been rad to have a system like that in a game with freestyle character development game like ultima online.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2017
    While that makes a great story that is absolutely horrible game design.

    I dunno it depends on how essential it is to the gameplay to know specific spells, it obviously doesn't make sense in a class-based game where you have your wizards and your clerics decided at character creation but it would have been rad to have a system like that in a game with freestyle character development game like ultima online.

    I'm more looking at the Spell Economy and things that incentivize your community based game to not act like a community, and to have to worry that their spell that they have been relying on suddenly lose distinct effectiveness because too many people on the server were using it.

    That and reagent based spellcasting is just the worst in MMOs.

    EDIT: I don't mean to harp on AC too hard or anything. It was a pioneer at the time it came out. I just got two distinct feelings when I read Rank's story (because I remember some of those aspects he mentioned even). Those were:

    "Wow, that's a fucking awesome story!" and
    *shudder* "Oh, God, I am glad that we have made advancements past that period."

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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