Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Cat peeing where she shouldn't

CambiataCambiata Commander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
I have three cats, two boys and a girl, seen here:

iLT2K2j.jpg

The girl cat is the one we're having problems with, Cassandra. She's the black cat in the center of that photo. For some reason, she keeps finding places to pee that we don't want her to pee. Initially, I thought the problem was not enough boxes in places where she wants to have her smell, so we added some boxes and moved them all around downstairs to the areas she likes to pee. (We have four total litter boxes for three cats, which is the recommended amount of boxes) That didn't fix the problem, so we thought next that the issue was that she doesn't like covered boxes, so we removed the covers from all boxes and it actually seemed for a little while that that had fixed it, except that last night I found a cardboard box full of electronic parts that she had been using as a pee spot, despite the four boxes. I removed that box, cleaned the electronic parts and put them in a new box, then put that box in the garage where she can't get at it. Only to find this morning that she peed in that corner where the box had been (not two steps away from where the actual litter box was).

As far as we can tell she's not having any medical bathroom issues. She never poops in these spots, only pees, so it seems that spreading her scent is the goal. The other two cats, Garak and Alistair, are not having problems with where to pee, even though Alistair is our cat that has the most anxiety issues personality-wise. We have not had any other animals in our yard our house recently, although about two months ago some puppies from our next door neighbor did get into our yard. They haven't broken in again since and Cassie did not seem to mind them at the time.

As far as cat furniture, we have two large cat trees (the one in the picture is the downstairs one), as well as two smaller cat trees that are basically just cat beds, seen here with Alistair:

LkuSUO6.png

I'll also admit that I have a lot of boxes still around from when I moved from my apartment to this house. That box of electronics was one of them that I finally emptied out and put everything in a proper place, with the goal to clear out a corner for an armoire that we bought. I have been slowly trying to remove these boxes and put stuff away or sell it, and each time I remove a block I find a new place that Cassie has been peeing that we didn't know about.

I'm at my wits' end trying to figure out what Cassie's issue is. She doesn't behave as if she feels anxious or insecure. She is the boldest of our three cats and seems to feel free to go where she wants. Her favorite way to lay is belly-up.

aGT4i3W.jpg

She does tend to scratch at doors that we close on her, but only when we are on the other side of those doors. We do have rooms that we close off to the cats, and one is notably a back storage room that we closed off permanently to her because it now smells so strongly of cat urine that I don't know how to get it out aside from removing the carpeting.

Cassie seems like she's had a peeing problem since we've had her. We got her as a 6 month old at the same time we got Alistair. @Strikor was not living with me then, so I had to leave both kitties alone during the day in my bedroom, and I wonder if that being left alone is part of her insecurity. Though that was the entire reason I got two cats, so that they wouldn't be lonely during the day. Strikor did move in about a month after I brought them home, so I'm not sure that being left alone during their kitten-hood is having an impact a year and a half later. I added our third cat, Garak, around July of last year. Cassie gets annoyed with Garak for attacking her when she doesn't want to play, but she seems happy with him otherwise. She will groom both Alistair and Garak.

Between us two humans, Cassie is most strongly bonded to me, though she does love Strikor too and lets him pet her. I considered whether it was the fact that I go to work during the week that bothers her, but Strikor pointed out that she does her morning "bad pee" whether I'm here or not.

So, I feel like we have covered the bases as far as what internet cat lore suggets: Plenty of cat furniture for her to rub against and leave her scent in an acceptable way, plenty of litter boxes for her to pee in and leave her scent that way, plenty of interaction with both humans and cats so she feels secure. What are we missing?

Sometimes I think she dislikes how many boxes of stuff I still have around that need to be emptied, but then it always seems like she has an episode once I clean something out (like the aforementioned box). She's our mystery kitty.


Zilla360
«1

Posts

  • SiskaSiska Shorty Registered User regular
    Are you using clumping clay litter now? She may just have decided that she doesn't like peeing on that. Perhaps try using wood pellet bedding in one box. Feline Pine is a common for cats brand and there's cheaper alternatives made for rabbits, horses or even furnaces (just make sure there are no harmful chemicals) that are pretty much the same thing. This litter doesn't clump so you just empty it out twice a week.

    Izuela.png
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Siska wrote: »
    Are you using clumping clay litter now? She may just have decided that she doesn't like peeing on that. Perhaps try using wood pellet bedding in one box. Feline Pine is a common for cats brand and there's cheaper alternatives made for rabbits, horses or even furnaces (just make sure there are no harmful chemicals) that are pretty much the same thing. This litter doesn't clump so you just empty it out twice a week.

    We use two different kinds of litter (two boxes for each). One is the Breeze litter box system which uses clay litter pellets. The other two use World's Best kitty litter and yeah, it does clump. Whether she pees in the box or pees two steps away from the box seems to happen regardless of which type of box is nearby. Cassandra does seem to prefer the clumping type, though.

  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Have you tried that Feliway cat pheromone stuff? It comes as a spray or a plug-in automatic diffuser, and they market it specifically for urine marking issues.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Yep, we've tried Feliway a couple of times, and as far as we could tell it had no effect on any of the cats.

    Though I should say the Feliway was gotten to help Alistair who does seem to have severe anxiety issues. I'll try Feliway downstairs where Cassie does the unwanted peeing and see if that helps.

    Cambiata on
  • GizzyGizzy <- girl PhoenixRegistered User regular
    Have you had her checked out for a urinary infection yet? Female cats develop them super easy and for some cats going outside of the litter box is one of the signs.

    3DS Friend Code 3282-2248-0453
    Gizzy's Amazon Xmas Wishlist
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Gizzy wrote: »
    Have you had her checked out for a urinary infection yet? Female cats develop them super easy and for some cats going outside of the litter box is one of the signs.

    We haven't had her checked for that, but she's not displaying any other symptoms. For example, one of the reasons we like the Breeze litter box is it allows us to see discoloration in the cats' urine. There is no blood in her urine or we would have seen it by now. She doesn't show signs of painful urination or straining. She just, in a ritual way, finds one of her spots in the morning and pees on it.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    A vet check at some point is probably a good idea, even if just to rule out UTI or other stuff going on that could be causing the behavior problem.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Well, she's been checked out for that in the last year, because we did have one of our kitties leaving brown pee and were narrowing it down to which one (it turned out the one with urinary problems is Alistair, though he never pees in inappropriate places). I'd say that was 6-8 months ago, but it's not like her propensity for inappropriate peeing has changed in all that time, it's just that now that we're removing boxes we're finding more of her presents and witnessing her try to re-consecrate the spots that we've cleaned out.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Huh dang. What are you using to clean up the pee areas?

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Hmm you might try this stuff:

    http://www.natures-miracle.com

    Been using it for years. Really seems to take the odor out, which reduces the chance of kitty smelling the previous pee and wanting to pee there again.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    We have some of that as well. We'll try using it only.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Natures Miracle and Fizzion work well. I've had more luck with Fizzion.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Natures Miracle and Fizzion work well. I've had more luck with Fizzion.

    Ok, I'm willing to try anything at this point. And I tried using the Nature's Miracle in that storage area that perpetually smells of pee and it did nothing. Ordering this now.

  • BasarBasar IstanbulRegistered User regular
    I prepared an homemade enzymatic cleaner and it has done wonders. It's made up of citrus so that also repels cats from where they shouldn't be.

    Another thing that comes to mind is maybe your cat is not happy with the presence of boxes? They all have their own weird quirks you know, maybe your's is an anti-box rebel? You should try to get all the boxes removed and see if the habit continues.

    i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Basar wrote: »
    I prepared an homemade enzymatic cleaner and it has done wonders. It's made up of citrus so that also repels cats from where they shouldn't be.

    Another thing that comes to mind is maybe your cat is not happy with the presence of boxes? They all have their own weird quirks you know, maybe your's is an anti-box rebel? You should try to get all the boxes removed and see if the habit continues.

    I would say it's the opposite - Cassie loves boxes far more than her siblings do. But I am getting the boxes cleared out as quickly as I can just the same, since the boxes give her the opportunity to pee where we can't see her.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Natures Miracle and Fizzion work well. I've had more luck with Fizzion.

    Ok, I'm willing to try anything at this point. And I tried using the Nature's Miracle in that storage area that perpetually smells of pee and it did nothing. Ordering this now.

    Really old pee stains/areas are gonna take multiple soakings with product, those are tough

    bowendispatch.oNobodyOnTheLastCastleZilla360
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    It's taken several applications to get the smell off a couch and out of a rug, but it does work. I adopted a male cat that had retained testicles. They said he was fixed, his balls just never dropped so he was all hopped up on hormones marking everything.

    Is the cat urinating on walls/in corners or in the middle of the room?

  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    Always on walls and/or in corners. Yesterday, I moved a box over to where she peed that day. Today, she went 3 feet from it (where the box was originally) and peed there instead.

    I was killing Thresher Maws on foot before I knew it was a Krogan rite of passage.
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    I've had to use cat attract when setting up a new box or switching apartments. Really though until you get the old pee smell gone there's not much you can do except limit access to the area entirely to break the habit.

    So It Goes
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Yeah it might be time to restrict her to one room on a temporary basis to try to break the habits.

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    I volunteer with a couple of crusty old ladies (meant entirely as a compliment) who foster difficult dogs until they're calm enough to go to less experienced foster parents. They both swear by My Pet Peed.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    OK, since I last checked in, we've:

    1) Put 2 Feliway diffuses in the two corners she likes to do her urination
    2) Used Nature's Way and Fizzon to clean her messes
    3) Sprayed Fizzon in the areas and let it dry (per directions from Fizzon)

    None of this has had an effect. Her peeing seems to be very ritualistic and not related to anything that's actually happening to her.

    Next step will be for us to physically bar her from her favorite pee areas. For one of those two areas, we have actually already purchased an armoire to go there, but we won't get it until this upcoming Saturday. However once it's in place I expect that she won't pee in that area anymore; she's never shown a proclivity for peeing on furniture. The other one is down our front hallway, so we should be able to get a pressure gate to keep her our.

    Cambiata on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    Is it always literally the same spot(s)?

    They make absorbent pee mats for dogs: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DZITJNC?psc=1

    She might just pee around them, I'm not sure. But I would lay these down in the spots anyway after cleaning the carpet below. If shes been peeing in those spots without you noticing, its possibly soaked into the padding below, and that's not super easy to spot treat. At a certain level of smell, ripping out the carpet is your best bet.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Iruka wrote: »
    Is it always literally the same spot(s)?

    They make absorbent pee mats for dogs: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DZITJNC?psc=1

    She might just pee around them, I'm not sure. But I would lay these down in the spots anyway after cleaning the carpet below. If shes been peeing in those spots without you noticing, its possibly soaked into the padding below, and that's not super easy to spot treat. At a certain level of smell, ripping out the carpet is your best bet.

    It's always in the same general area. Also she doesn't pee on the floor, she's actually peeing on the walls.

    Edit: Just now I took the Frizzon and actually soaked the walls all around her favorite corners. Before I just did some perfunctory sprays. Should be dry by the time she gets down there tomorrow, we'll see if it does anything.

    Edit again: I asked @Strikor about her pee locations, he says she pretty much does the exact same spot each time.

    Cambiata on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    tape and the mats could still cover the walls. Once you get the scent out I would cover the spot up to keep her from re-marking it. If the mat isnt completely obliterated with pee, you can also try moving a soiled one near the desired litter box to get the scent in the right area, while re-matting the walls to protect the old spot.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    It sounds a lot like marking behavior. If the house isn't brand-new, it may very well be that a previous resident also had cats, and she's reacting to a latent scent or something along those lines. It could also be that something inside or on the other side of the walls are causing her to react that way.

    Three things in human life are important: the first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind.
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    It sounds a lot like marking behavior. If the house isn't brand-new, it may very well be that a previous resident also had cats, and she's reacting to a latent scent or something along those lines. It could also be that something inside or on the other side of the walls are causing her to react that way.

    Well, see my post at the top of this thread. There haven't been other animals around that we've seen, except the dogs that one time and she had no reaction to them. As far as previous animals, I'd buy that if it weren't for the fact that the walls got newly painted as part of the other owner's selling the house. I mean maybe the laminate smells of something, but that would surprise me, especially with how often we've cleaned it since she started doing this.

    I'll also add that we've never seen her, or any of the cats, react to seeing something outside. Even thunder they ignore 99% of the time, unless it's really loud. There are kids who play in our neighborhood and the times that we've left our windows open during the day, the cats have all acted curious rather than nervous of the kids.

    Cambiata on
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    My cats are pretty well behaved. One of them tried to poop on me the other day while I was in bed. I thought he wanted under the covers because it gets cold... nope. He was digging a pooping trench in my blankets by my feet.

    What I mean to say is, cats are assholes and kind of strange. If you can't figure out why she's doing it, you're best off trying to simply prevent the behavior or make it not something she wants to do.

    I've known people who used double-sided tape or plastic wrap on the countertops to break their cats habit of jumping up. I wonder if you could do that with the baseboards and carpet line of that room so she no longer wants to walk up to the walls to spray them?

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    So this morning, it seems that Cassie... did not pee inappropriately?! At least I couldn't find any when I checked later. Strikor hasn't found any either (yet). So maybe soaking the walls with Frizzon worked? Time will tell. I already ordered a pressure gate, but that'll be useful anyway when we want to keep them from going downstairs.

    Ha ha, NOPE, she still peed. She just waited for later in the afternoon. Maybe it's her internal clock, we do tend to sleep in until late afternoon and so that's when she waited to do her peeing. Sigh.

    Cambiata on
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    @dispatch.o If your cat does weird behavior such as acting like it's going to go to the bathroom then doesn't, that can be it trying to tell you that there is some sort of blockage.

    But yeah, cats ARE assholes. At least I don't have to worry about a blockage in Cassandra's case, although I would prefer her to not be quite so messy about letting us know.

    Strikor on
    I was killing Thresher Maws on foot before I knew it was a Krogan rite of passage.
    Cambiata
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Well I would like to update that seemingly she hasn't peed inappropriately today. We had two near misses, but she ultimately didn't leave any spots. So maybe the Fizzon worked after all. I think I'll soak the walls again today just in case.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Just going to update on this situation: she's still peeing in extra spots around the house, even after we blocked her off from some favorite spots. It's only once per day and it's very ritualistic. Even though we've used every "urine eraser" formula that's been recommended it doesn't stop her. What we think at this point is that it happens because of her history. Unlike our other two cats, she didn't come to the SPCA direct from a city shelter as a kitten, she came from what sounds like a hoarding situation - "inhumane conditions with too many animals", her paperwork says. She lived in that situation until she was 6 months old. So it may be this was her way of controlling her environment and it may be so ingrained at this point that there's no way to train it out. At least as of right now she's limiting her peeing to tile and veneer areas, not any carpeted spots, so I think it'll just be something we live with.

  • PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    The general assumption I had heard of was one litterbox per cat per floor +1, but even then my cat's had problems peeing outside her litterbox as well.

    Sometimes it may be that cassandra smelled, heard or saw something she didn't like when she went to the litterbox and peed elsewhere, or it could be that she smelled something she didn't like in the area where she is peeing, and wanting to mark it.

    My cat's big problem was surprisingly simple to solve - I already cleaned her litterboxes every morning and evening, but I found that when I finished cleaning the litterboxes, if I shook the litterboxes to fully level the litter, she started peeing in them almost immediately. Her being able to see that the litter was super flat apparently signaled to her that the litter boxes were available to be used again.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    I've had to go through periods where my cat would pee outside the box. My solution ended out being setting him in the box every morning and evening and babysitting him to make sure the other cat didn't walk up and spook him.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    The thing is, she's not getting spooked by anything, and other than her single morning bad pee ritual she pees in the litter boxes just fine. Even if we sit and watch her and stop her in the morning, she'll do it secretly later when we're not looking.

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Just going to update on this situation: she's still peeing in extra spots around the house, even after we blocked her off from some favorite spots. It's only once per day and it's very ritualistic. Even though we've used every "urine eraser" formula that's been recommended it doesn't stop her. What we think at this point is that it happens because of her history. Unlike our other two cats, she didn't come to the SPCA direct from a city shelter as a kitten, she came from what sounds like a hoarding situation - "inhumane conditions with too many animals", her paperwork says. She lived in that situation until she was 6 months old. So it may be this was her way of controlling her environment and it may be so ingrained at this point that there's no way to train it out. At least as of right now she's limiting her peeing to tile and veneer areas, not any carpeted spots, so I think it'll just be something we live with.

    You're a good person, @Cambiata.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
    Bliss 101dispatch.o
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Just going to update on this situation: she's still peeing in extra spots around the house, even after we blocked her off from some favorite spots. It's only once per day and it's very ritualistic. Even though we've used every "urine eraser" formula that's been recommended it doesn't stop her. What we think at this point is that it happens because of her history. Unlike our other two cats, she didn't come to the SPCA direct from a city shelter as a kitten, she came from what sounds like a hoarding situation - "inhumane conditions with too many animals", her paperwork says. She lived in that situation until she was 6 months old. So it may be this was her way of controlling her environment and it may be so ingrained at this point that there's no way to train it out. At least as of right now she's limiting her peeing to tile and veneer areas, not any carpeted spots, so I think it'll just be something we live with.

    You're a good person, Cambiata.

    She's my baby girl, c'mon! I'm not gonna get rid of my baby just because she has a peeing problem. At least she limits herself to once per day as far as we can tell.

    Strikor
  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    I've been trying my hardest to figure out any other contributing factors, but alas.

    The fact that her demeaner seems to indicate an otherwise content kitty does point to some ingrained behaviour of which the initial trigger for development may be long gone.

    w98zzq.jpg
    Cambiata
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    She'll even sometimes do her "bad pee" in the bathtub while @Strikor is right there next to her. That reminds me, the very first time we caught her doing this behavior (not the first time she had done it, just the first time we knew she was doing it), she seemed to make a point of doing it in front of Strikor, in a box or something I think it was. Something that struck us both as very oddly ceremonial - "here is my special pee now, please watch."

    Her physical stance when she does it definitely looks like marking behavior and not like bathroom problems/kidney problems/litter box isn't satisfactory.

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.