I'm really curious how all the timeline stuff is ultimately going to get sorted
theoretically they've totally upended at least the first couple seasons of the show by snatching Garrett out of the timeline and killing all the Afterlife characters.
I hadn't considered the idea that Ward would end up good because Garrett isn't around, I was actually thinking that maybe Sybil/Malick could grab (evil) Ward from the timeline to mess with the agents just in time for the finale. Either way this is all a perfect excuse to bring Ward back one last time and I'll be pretty disappointed if they don't/didn't take advantage of it.
Any excuse for more Ward is great, but without Garrett, doesn't he just end up in and out of prison forever after his initial delinquency? He's not really likely to catch the attention of Victoria Hand or somebody like that who can elevate him and channel his crazy for good. Ward is already pretty damaged before Garrett gets there. Not sure he would be able to correct himself on his own.
Hand is the one that recruiting him in the Framework version, so the groundwork is there for it to happen in the alternate timelines.
ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
They would need to get to a more recent timeline before they could use Ward, unless they're going to introduce him as like a 10 year old.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
All this talk about Ward reminds me that he still has his younger brother Thomas out there...somewhere. Likely never to be seen again.
They would need to get to a more recent timeline before they could use Ward, unless they're going to introduce him as like a 10 year old.
So they save little tyke Ward(I don't think he is supposed to be that much older than Daisy) go forward again. And get new timeline's good guy Ward. They take him on the ship and go back to the original timeline, saving the WarDaisy ship.
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kaceypwe stayed bright as lightningwe sang loud as thunderRegistered Userregular
I don't think I would ever want that ship saved, just because the way the show took people's Season 1 complaints/expectations about SkyWard and totally blew them out of the water was very satisfying.
All this talk about Ward reminds me that he still has his younger brother Thomas out there...somewhere. Likely never to be seen again.
On a related note, I've been watching this entire season thinking that Nathaniel was created just for this season, and then suddenly in my head yesterday I went "waaaait...was he...." and remembered that he was actually introduced back in Season 3 (with a different actor).
They're going to make it so that the cop Enver Gjokaj played in the first Avengers actually was Sousa.
I doubt it!
Anyway, roughly two hours of the show left! Not looking forward to Hulu cutting out on me during the finale at least 4 times. It cut out on me twice tonight! Definitely kicking that streaming service to the curb when this is over.
I'm guessing the bloodwork is a fakeout. It's actually not Fitz's bloodwork, but Simmons. She's pregnant and they raised a child together in whereever they were. Though I'm not sure where this leads to in the horrible revelation department. Unless they had to put the kid in an orphanage somewhere while they pulled their time bullshit and aren't able to ever get them out.
Absolutely loved a lot of the little character moments this episode.
Yeah, the Mac/Sousa and Daisy/Sousa stuff, the callbacks for May about the little girl, Coulson being a computer genius now, plus some FitzSimmons and Enoch. All good stuff.
Also noted how they did go ahead and address the question of how Ward would turn out without Garrett -- even worse, if you believe Cora, though the others disagreed that it was inevitable. I liked the shoutout to Framework Ward and the mentions of Lincoln, Rosalind, and I forget who else.
I also got a big kick out of how Daisy just immediately peaced out on Cora when she remembered Simmons.
I'm guessing the bloodwork is a fakeout. It's actually not Fitz's bloodwork, but Simmons. She's pregnant and they raised a child together in whereever they were. Though I'm not sure where this leads to in the horrible revelation department. Unless they had to put the kid in an orphanage somewhere while they pulled their time bullshit and aren't able to ever get them out.
Theory:
Fitz is definitely alive and they had a kid together. Because Simmons' neural implant is named Diana, I'm guessing they named the kid Diana so they would always be together.
Now that she's completely forgotten Fitz, I wonder if the series ends with those two "meeting" each other for the first time (like in The Notebook or 50 First Dates).
I'm guessing the bloodwork is a fakeout. It's actually not Fitz's bloodwork, but Simmons. She's pregnant and they raised a child together in whereever they were. Though I'm not sure where this leads to in the horrible revelation department. Unless they had to put the kid in an orphanage somewhere while they pulled their time bullshit and aren't able to ever get them out.
Theory:
Fitz is definitely alive and they had a kid together. Because Simmons' neural implant is named Diana, I'm guessing they named the kid Diana so they would always be together.
Now that she's completely forgotten Fitz, I wonder if the series ends with those two "meeting" each other for the first time (like in The Notebook or 50 First Dates).
The implant is still in Simmons though, so I'm thinking that her memories will come back when it's removed. It's a hell of a data dam, but not impenetrable.
I get these guys are grateful for being "saved", but surely some dudes have to be questioning choices after Mallik murders a dude for calling him sir and they invite an alien species to attack earth. They live there, and all their stuff is there. A new world order, okay. Seeming to betray all of humanity might be a bit much. Also, why keep calling him sir if you have talked to Cybil and seen in the timeline calling him sir will get you killed?
Geddoe on
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
I get these guys are grateful for being "saved", but surely some dudes have to be questioning choices after Mallik murders a dude for calling him sir and they invite an alien species to attack earth. They live there, and all their stuff is there. A new world order, okay. Seeming to betray all of humanity might be a bit much. Also, why keep calling him sir if you have talked to Cybil and seen in the timeline calling him sir will get you killed?
I suspect that
whatever they see in the time stream is strictly controlled by Sybil, and she doesn't show them what happens after their "anarchy" or whatever the hell.
I get these guys are grateful for being "saved", but surely some dudes have to be questioning choices after Mallik murders a dude for calling him sir and they invite an alien species to attack earth. They live there, and all their stuff is there. A new world order, okay. Seeming to betray all of humanity might be a bit much. Also, why keep calling him sir if you have talked to Cybil and seen in the timeline calling him sir will get you killed?
I feel like Cora and Mallik are the weakest part of the season.
Okay, sure, you're glad you're not dead and you're resentful that your mom couldn't fix your problems. But for a girl who grew up completely sheltered her entire life, she turned into a murderer really fucking quickly! It doesn't feel like she's acting how any actual human being would act. It'd be one thing if she was just supposed to be a sociopath, but she can seem to show emotions for her family, so where are those emotions for those other people she's known her whole life and killed? Meanwhile Mallik seems to have the emotional maturity of a 16 year old boy. Which might have been fine in earlier periods but by this point it's not really working for him anymore.
I feel like both of their characterizations would have benefited from throwing them out and starting over in the draft stage.
I get these guys are grateful for being "saved", but surely some dudes have to be questioning choices after Mallik murders a dude for calling him sir and they invite an alien species to attack earth. They live there, and all their stuff is there. A new world order, okay. Seeming to betray all of humanity might be a bit much. Also, why keep calling him sir if you have talked to Cybil and seen in the timeline calling him sir will get you killed?
I feel like Cora and Mallik are the weakest part of the season.
Okay, sure, you're glad you're not dead and you're resentful that your mom couldn't fix your problems. But for a girl who grew up completely sheltered her entire life, she turned into a murderer really fucking quickly! It doesn't feel like she's acting how any actual human being would act. It'd be one thing if she was just supposed to be a sociopath, but she can seem to show emotions for her family, so where are those emotions for those other people she's known her whole life and killed? Meanwhile Mallik seems to have the emotional maturity of a 16 year old boy. Which might have been fine in earlier periods but by this point it's not really working for him anymore.
I feel like both of their characterizations would have benefited from throwing them out and starting over in the draft stage.
Also, the kiss felt so awkward to me that I suspected for a minute that she might have decided to switch sides after finding out about her mom. Which would be less disappointing than Nathaniel dickmatizing her.
Once someone pointed out that Nathaniel was actually in an episode before, I went back to look him up to refresh my memory, and his story/motivation makes way more sense now.
Of course, the problem is they couldn't just show a clip from that episode in the 'previously on' section. Because they recast him. And, with how fast it's going in the second half, doesn't seem like they have time to reshoot those scenes or anything.
Once someone pointed out that Nathaniel was actually in an episode before, I went back to look him up to refresh my memory, and his story/motivation makes way more sense now.
Of course, the problem is they couldn't just show a clip from that episode in the 'previously on' section. Because they recast him. And, with how fast it's going in the second half, doesn't seem like they have time to reshoot those scenes or anything.
I liked that they kept with the "Nathaniel loves wearing black trenchcoats" theme, in case you weren't sure he was an edgelord.
Really, I was hoping that they'd name drop a few other Avengers at that point.
"Well, there's Thor...
"You mean like the Greek god?
"Norse, and no, not like the Norse god, literally the Norse god. Also Iron Man
"Iron Man...?
"And War Machine, but he changed his name to Iron Patriot, politics you know, better for the crowds. The Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Can't forget Captain America..
"Wait, Captain America? Peggy told me he died at the end of the War.
"Nope, turns out he was frozen in the arctic. A few decades on ice but he was as good as new once we got him thawed out...
Figure that with the assorted time fuckery in the MCU and this season of SHIELD they won't even have to worry about that whole Infinity Stone crisis, since they're definitely in different universes now, and who knows if this Thanos is even going to be collecting them?
Really, I was hoping that they'd name drop a few other Avengers at that point.
"Well, there's Thor...
"You mean like the Greek god?
"Norse, and no, not like the Norse god, literally the Norse god. Also Iron Man
"Iron Man...?
"And War Machine, but he changed his name to Iron Patriot, politics you know, better for the crowds. The Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Can't forget Captain America..
"Wait, Captain America? Peggy told me he died at the end of the War.
"Nope, turns out he was frozen in the arctic. A few decades on ice but he was as good as new once we got him thawed out...
Figure that with the assorted time fuckery in the MCU and this season of SHIELD they won't even have to worry about that whole Infinity Stone crisis, since they're definitely in different universes now, and who knows if this Thanos is even going to be collecting them?
Who knows if the Avengers even exist after everything that's happened.
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Really, I was hoping that they'd name drop a few other Avengers at that point.
"Well, there's Thor...
"You mean like the Greek god?
"Norse, and no, not like the Norse god, literally the Norse god. Also Iron Man
"Iron Man...?
"And War Machine, but he changed his name to Iron Patriot, politics you know, better for the crowds. The Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Can't forget Captain America..
"Wait, Captain America? Peggy told me he died at the end of the War.
"Nope, turns out he was frozen in the arctic. A few decades on ice but he was as good as new once we got him thawed out...
Figure that with the assorted time fuckery in the MCU and this season of SHIELD they won't even have to worry about that whole Infinity Stone crisis, since they're definitely in different universes now, and who knows if this Thanos is even going to be collecting them?
Why wouldn't he? It was always his plan to do so. The existence of the Avengers might change the timetable, but other than that he was always going to do it.
Really, I was hoping that they'd name drop a few other Avengers at that point.
"Well, there's Thor...
"You mean like the Greek god?
"Norse, and no, not like the Norse god, literally the Norse god. Also Iron Man
"Iron Man...?
"And War Machine, but he changed his name to Iron Patriot, politics you know, better for the crowds. The Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Can't forget Captain America..
"Wait, Captain America? Peggy told me he died at the end of the War.
"Nope, turns out he was frozen in the arctic. A few decades on ice but he was as good as new once we got him thawed out...
Figure that with the assorted time fuckery in the MCU and this season of SHIELD they won't even have to worry about that whole Infinity Stone crisis, since they're definitely in different universes now, and who knows if this Thanos is even going to be collecting them?
Why wouldn't he? It was always his plan to do so. The existence of the Avengers might change the timetable, but other than that he was always going to do it.
We still don't know what finally prompted Thanos to start the Infinity War when he did and not, you know, a year or more prior. (Though I suspect the destruction of Asgard might of played into it.)
Really, I was hoping that they'd name drop a few other Avengers at that point.
"Well, there's Thor...
"You mean like the Greek god?
"Norse, and no, not like the Norse god, literally the Norse god. Also Iron Man
"Iron Man...?
"And War Machine, but he changed his name to Iron Patriot, politics you know, better for the crowds. The Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Can't forget Captain America..
"Wait, Captain America? Peggy told me he died at the end of the War.
"Nope, turns out he was frozen in the arctic. A few decades on ice but he was as good as new once we got him thawed out...
Figure that with the assorted time fuckery in the MCU and this season of SHIELD they won't even have to worry about that whole Infinity Stone crisis, since they're definitely in different universes now, and who knows if this Thanos is even going to be collecting them?
Why wouldn't he? It was always his plan to do so. The existence of the Avengers might change the timetable, but other than that he was always going to do it.
We still don't know what finally prompted Thanos to start the Infinity War when he did and not, you know, a year or more prior. (Though I suspect the destruction of Asgard might of played into it.)
We actually do. It was Nebula attempting to assassinate him after GOTG2, and when he was torturing her finding out that Gamora knew the location of the Soul Stone. So the real trick is, what events in SHIELD would have altered the GOTG storylines to change things?
Really, I was hoping that they'd name drop a few other Avengers at that point.
"Well, there's Thor...
"You mean like the Greek god?
"Norse, and no, not like the Norse god, literally the Norse god. Also Iron Man
"Iron Man...?
"And War Machine, but he changed his name to Iron Patriot, politics you know, better for the crowds. The Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Can't forget Captain America..
"Wait, Captain America? Peggy told me he died at the end of the War.
"Nope, turns out he was frozen in the arctic. A few decades on ice but he was as good as new once we got him thawed out...
Figure that with the assorted time fuckery in the MCU and this season of SHIELD they won't even have to worry about that whole Infinity Stone crisis, since they're definitely in different universes now, and who knows if this Thanos is even going to be collecting them?
Why wouldn't he? It was always his plan to do so. The existence of the Avengers might change the timetable, but other than that he was always going to do it.
We still don't know what finally prompted Thanos to start the Infinity War when he did and not, you know, a year or more prior. (Though I suspect the destruction of Asgard might of played into it.)
I initially thought it was independent of humanity, because the first time we see a stone that Thanos has knowledge of, it's the Mind Stone which he already has, meaning he's aware and already collecting.
But the revised chronology makes that argument shaky, because Danvers/Lawson were experimenting in '89 with the Power Stone, and Korath was a known entity to Thanos at the start of GotG1 when he's trying to get the Power Stone before Quill. The Collector had the Reality Stone before that, and was apparently seeking the others.
So.... it seems like it's possible that the use of the Power Stone by Lawson with an effect noted by Korath, coupled with the Collector seeking them after getting one because Jane Foster was a plot device.
So, as usual, the universe was imperiled because humanity can't keep their fingers to themselves. Thanos probably should have snapped us all.
Deke stole all the 80's music, meaning Starlord's Walkman is filled with knockoff versions of his Mom's favorite songs. Obviously, this means he never becomes a hero, causing a domino effect through Gamora, Nebula, and the soul stone. Changing the 80's changes the universe.
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kaceypwe stayed bright as lightningwe sang loud as thunderRegistered Userregular
Once someone pointed out that Nathaniel was actually in an episode before, I went back to look him up to refresh my memory, and his story/motivation makes way more sense now.
Of course, the problem is they couldn't just show a clip from that episode in the 'previously on' section. Because they recast him. And, with how fast it's going in the second half, doesn't seem like they have time to reshoot those scenes or anything.
When I was thinking he was a brand new character introduced this season, I kept thinking "Huh, I wonder why he doesn't get his brother Gideon involved in all this stuff he's doing."
Then when I remembered the character might have already existed and looked at the wiki to refresh my memory on him I was like "Oh. That's probably why."
Damn. What a great ending. Marvel absolutely did this whole production dirty by not integrating them better.
I think the show got infinitely better when they weren’t shackled by the movies. Having it just be their own thing was a lot of fun when they were free to do mostly anything so long as it didn’t totally fuck with the MCU timeline and universe.
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My Backloggery
So they save little tyke Ward(I don't think he is supposed to be that much older than Daisy) go forward again. And get new timeline's good guy Ward. They take him on the ship and go back to the original timeline, saving the WarDaisy ship.
On a related note, I've been watching this entire season thinking that Nathaniel was created just for this season, and then suddenly in my head yesterday I went "waaaait...was he...." and remembered that he was actually introduced back in Season 3 (with a different actor).
They're going to do it, aren't they? wrt Sousa
I doubt it!
Anyway, roughly two hours of the show left! Not looking forward to Hulu cutting out on me during the finale at least 4 times. It cut out on me twice tonight! Definitely kicking that streaming service to the curb when this is over.
My Backloggery
PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
Also noted how they did go ahead and address the question of how Ward would turn out without Garrett -- even worse, if you believe Cora, though the others disagreed that it was inevitable. I liked the shoutout to Framework Ward and the mentions of Lincoln, Rosalind, and I forget who else.
I also got a big kick out of how Daisy just immediately peaced out on Cora when she remembered Simmons.
Theory:
Now that she's completely forgotten Fitz, I wonder if the series ends with those two "meeting" each other for the first time (like in The Notebook or 50 First Dates).
Coran Attack!
I suspect that
My Backloggery
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I feel like Cora and Mallik are the weakest part of the season.
I feel like both of their characterizations would have benefited from throwing them out and starting over in the draft stage.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Yeah. Once they got to the 80s, it felt a bit rushed.
My Backloggery
I don't know what they are, so I can't (and wouldn't want to anyway) be more specific, but I'm passing along the warning.
Yeah, I've heard this too. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to avoid Agents of SHIELD spoilers these days.
My Backloggery
Of course, the problem is they couldn't just show a clip from that episode in the 'previously on' section. Because they recast him. And, with how fast it's going in the second half, doesn't seem like they have time to reshoot those scenes or anything.
Really, I was hoping that they'd name drop a few other Avengers at that point.
"You mean like the Greek god?
"Norse, and no, not like the Norse god, literally the Norse god. Also Iron Man
"Iron Man...?
"And War Machine, but he changed his name to Iron Patriot, politics you know, better for the crowds. The Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Can't forget Captain America..
"Wait, Captain America? Peggy told me he died at the end of the War.
"Nope, turns out he was frozen in the arctic. A few decades on ice but he was as good as new once we got him thawed out...
Figure that with the assorted time fuckery in the MCU and this season of SHIELD they won't even have to worry about that whole Infinity Stone crisis, since they're definitely in different universes now, and who knows if this Thanos is even going to be collecting them?
Who knows if the Avengers even exist after everything that's happened.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Why wouldn't he? It was always his plan to do so. The existence of the Avengers might change the timetable, but other than that he was always going to do it.
We still don't know what finally prompted Thanos to start the Infinity War when he did and not, you know, a year or more prior. (Though I suspect the destruction of Asgard might of played into it.)
We actually do. It was Nebula attempting to assassinate him after GOTG2, and when he was torturing her finding out that Gamora knew the location of the Soul Stone. So the real trick is, what events in SHIELD would have altered the GOTG storylines to change things?
My Backloggery
I initially thought it was independent of humanity, because the first time we see a stone that Thanos has knowledge of, it's the Mind Stone which he already has, meaning he's aware and already collecting.
But the revised chronology makes that argument shaky, because Danvers/Lawson were experimenting in '89 with the Power Stone, and Korath was a known entity to Thanos at the start of GotG1 when he's trying to get the Power Stone before Quill. The Collector had the Reality Stone before that, and was apparently seeking the others.
So.... it seems like it's possible that the use of the Power Stone by Lawson with an effect noted by Korath, coupled with the Collector seeking them after getting one because Jane Foster was a plot device.
So, as usual, the universe was imperiled because humanity can't keep their fingers to themselves. Thanos probably should have snapped us all.
When I was thinking he was a brand new character introduced this season, I kept thinking "Huh, I wonder why he doesn't get his brother Gideon involved in all this stuff he's doing."
Then when I remembered the character might have already existed and looked at the wiki to refresh my memory on him I was like "Oh. That's probably why."
I'm going to miss this.
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PM Me if you add me!
I think the show got infinitely better when they weren’t shackled by the movies. Having it just be their own thing was a lot of fun when they were free to do mostly anything so long as it didn’t totally fuck with the MCU timeline and universe.
Coran Attack!