I work for a big (very big) company. I used to consult for similar very big companies. I know exactly what you mean when you say that big companies don't have endless pockets and that there is everything from bureaucracy to contractual obligations to plain ol' office politics that come into play.
But "waste" is only "antithetical to good business sense" if you assume that the Sunk Cost Fallacy isn't a thing. Iron Fist likely only had a few contracts to fulfill, and those probably could've been renegotiated. The only timeline that show was on was an internally-enforced one that was entirely arbitrary. They could've skipped the standalone show, dedicated just as much screentime to Danny Rand as they did to Colleen Wing in Defenders, and avoided the entire IF fiasco.
The Inhumans thing I will agree was likely a much tougher call. But I'm certain there were points during production when they should've made the decision to shut it down and renegotiate, rather than bite the bullet and continue. They continued to kick that can down the road until it was "too late".
My point is, business decisions aren't cut and dry and rarely have to do only with what looks best. Sometimes it's better to poop out a dud and move on, than to not deliver anything at all, or invest even more into a failing project.
My point is exactly the same. You can try to account for this in terms of pure dollars and cents, sure, but brand value is a thing, as is customer perception. These same companies spend billions of dollars a year in marketing and what-have-you trying to get exactly what Marvel has accomplished. There's that old saying about how one failure is a mistake, while two mistakes is a trend. I'm pretty sure they managed to death-march themselves into "trend" territory.
Yep, I agree with everything you're saying. Fans usually don't realize that there is far more involved in productions of content than the creative side, but sadly that is not the case at all.
I work for a big (very big) company. I used to consult for similar very big companies. I know exactly what you mean when you say that big companies don't have endless pockets and that there is everything from bureaucracy to contractual obligations to plain ol' office politics that come into play.
But "waste" is only "antithetical to good business sense" if you assume that the Sunk Cost Fallacy isn't a thing. Iron Fist likely only had a few contracts to fulfill, and those probably could've been renegotiated. The only timeline that show was on was an internally-enforced one that was entirely arbitrary. They could've skipped the standalone show, dedicated just as much screentime to Danny Rand as they did to Colleen Wing in Defenders, and avoided the entire IF fiasco.
The Inhumans thing I will agree was likely a much tougher call. But I'm certain there were points during production when they should've made the decision to shut it down and renegotiate, rather than bite the bullet and continue. They continued to kick that can down the road until it was "too late".
My point is, business decisions aren't cut and dry and rarely have to do only with what looks best. Sometimes it's better to poop out a dud and move on, than to not deliver anything at all, or invest even more into a failing project.
My point is exactly the same. You can try to account for this in terms of pure dollars and cents, sure, but brand value is a thing, as is customer perception. These same companies spend billions of dollars a year in marketing and what-have-you trying to get exactly what Marvel has accomplished. There's that old saying about how one failure is a mistake, while two mistakes is a trend. I'm pretty sure they managed to death-march themselves into "trend" territory.
Yep, I agree with everything you're saying. Fans usually don't realize that there is far more involved in productions of content than the creative side, but sadly that is not the case at all.
Who's been doing that?
Many people in many corners of the internet, wasn't thinking of anyone in particular.
I will say that if it doesn't improve, I'm not going to like it very much. But as far as a pilot/premiere, I've definitely seen worse. And those shows got picked up for full/second seasons.
edit: And I do think that the trailers did the show no favors at all.
The IMAX thing seemed like a really really bad idea
That was Marvel being cheap
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Personally I think the IMAX part was a winning combination of face-saving after having an Inhumans film on the slate for years that continually got pushed back and IMAX rolling up with some funding for promotional purposes. Unfortunately it sounds like it's not gone well in any respect other than it's over with and can be quietly dropped now.
I think Internet Hyperbole got ahold of The Inhumans. The premiere wasn't even bad; it was a pilot, not a trash fire of infinite proportions.
It suffers from the problem I was talking about. Even if it's just "mediocre", it's now seen as part of a larger trend that started with Iron Fist and continued on through Defenders, even though the latter was largely just "meh" as opposed to "holy shit this is bad".
This happens all the time in media, in both directions. If a season of something is particularly good or notable, that season in and of itself may not actually get the ratings bump - it will be the season afterwards that sees the increase. We saw this with The Dark Knight trilogy (with the third movie seeing the highest totals even though it was arguably the weakest of the three).
And, if you believe the third-party metrics, Iron Fist managed similar release numbers to its predecessors, but Defenders saw a huge decrease in viewership even though it should've been an Avengers-level event for the various Netflix franchises. I mean, that was the whole reason they shoved IF down our throats in the first place.
Well, if Inhumans does keep the trend that the first two episodes had, then I would suggest that they pull something like what the CW did with Legends of Tomorrow. Do something close to a soft reboot, and change the focus of the show.
I think Internet Hyperbole got ahold of The Inhumans. The premiere wasn't even bad; it was a pilot, not a trash fire of infinite proportions.
I mean, it all depends on your standards and expectations. If the standard is "the typical tripe that gets shoveled onto network TV day in and day out" then sure, it's no worse than lots of other things on TV. The thing is that Marvel has built a brand that has come to represent standards much higher than that. They have a reputation that everything they touch turns to gold.
I know there's a whole complicated mess between Marvel TV and Marvel Studios, but we are told that it's all one connected universe and the audience is mostly unaware of the behind-the-scenes politics. Up until now, the Marvel TV shows have done a mostly pretty good job of presenting something that feels like it fits into the MCU. The scale of the shows and characters are proportionate to the budgets and it works. Inhumans, however, is in no way believable as being part of the same world. I expect a secret city on the moon in the MCU to be beautiful and amazing, not to look like it was shot a couple blocks away in front of a local government building.
By the standards of typical network TV, the Inhumans pilot might be merely mediocre. But by the standards of Marvel, it was baaaaaaaaaad! Like really hilariously bad in so many ways. And coming off of Iron Fist and Defenders, it just makes me lose trust in the Marvel brand. Something is really wrong inside the company and I hope the brass over at Disney/Marvel Studios finally decides something has to be done about it.
Personally I think the IMAX part was a winning combination of face-saving after having an Inhumans film on the slate for years that continually got pushed back and IMAX rolling up with some funding for promotional purposes. Unfortunately it sounds like it's not gone well in any respect other than it's over with and can be quietly dropped now.
It also gave the show the smell of week old fish coming into it's TV premiere.
It really feels like Maximus’ skeevy moments (sexuality harassing Medusa, cutting her hair (even though it’s a smart tactical move given her powers, it’s an act totally steeped in a history misogyny and abuse), not so subtly hinting that Crystal would suffer an accident, etc.) are there solely to counterbalance that he’s actually right regarding how bullshit the caste system is, and that Attilan’s future is at a crossroads. The way it’s done just feels really sloppy, like the writers are going “Oh shit, he’s making a lot of sense... let’s do something blatant to remind the audience he’s the villain.”
The whole surfer thing just hurt my brain. Like, how the fuck do surfers think they’re going to contend with assassins from the moon? These assassins obviously think they can handle Gorgon, so why do you think you stand a chance? And if Gorgon actually cares about their well-being, then why doesn’t he simply move to a different location? And why tell Maximus that you’re leaving your comm link on?
Why didn’t Karnak use his ability while climbing down the mountain? I mean, we saw him dissect a confrontation with armed guards mere moments before, but a stationary mountain is too complex for him to figure out?
The actor portraying Crystal is terrible. Maybe it’s the direction/director, but it’s really noticeable. It’s Star Wars prequels bad.
I think the surfers don't entirely believe dude is from the moon. Inhuman stuff has been around for a couple years by now, so they're "used" to a dude with hooves for feet, but it's probably a bridge too far to think said dude is from outer space. Also, isn't the stereotype that surfers are super-chill? They're probably under-thinking it. Or they're all secret military badasses on leave or something.
Dude can't navigate a mountain because he has a concussion. Which may be outside of his experience since he's (almost) royalty and probably wins any sparring match (not fight, since apparently that doesn't happen) anyway.
Everything else, yeah I agree.
You know, I don't want this to be the hill I die on, but apparently it is? GODDAMNIT.
I think the surfers don't entirely believe dude is from the moon. Inhuman stuff has been around for a couple years by now, so they're "used" to a dude with hooves for feet, but it's probably a bridge too far to think said dude is from outer space. Also, isn't the stereotype that surfers are super-chill? They're probably under-thinking it. Or they're all secret military badasses on leave or something.
Dude can't navigate a mountain because he has a concussion. Which may be outside of his experience since he's (almost) royalty and probably wins any sparring match (not fight, since apparently that doesn't happen) anyway.
Everything else, yeah I agree.
You know, I don't want this to be the hill I die on, but apparently it is? GODDAMNIT.
Karnak
Karnak got his concussion from falling off the mountain. Because he misstepped and hit a loose rock and it caused him to fall. It really threw me for a loop as well; I expected to get another Oops rewind scene when he fell. But nope, this time his power didn't work for reason so he can fall and be delivered for plot.
Well, if Inhumans does keep the trend that the first two episodes had, then I would suggest that they pull something like what the CW did with Legends of Tomorrow. Do something close to a soft reboot, and change the focus of the show.
Got canceled, which is impressive - Iron Fist got a second season for a soft reboot.
I think the surfers don't entirely believe dude is from the moon. Inhuman stuff has been around for a couple years by now, so they're "used" to a dude with hooves for feet, but it's probably a bridge too far to think said dude is from outer space. Also, isn't the stereotype that surfers are super-chill? They're probably under-thinking it. Or they're all secret military badasses on leave or something.
Dude can't navigate a mountain because he has a concussion. Which may be outside of his experience since he's (almost) royalty and probably wins any sparring match (not fight, since apparently that doesn't happen) anyway.
Everything else, yeah I agree.
You know, I don't want this to be the hill I die on, but apparently it is? GODDAMNIT.
Karnak
Karnak got his concussion from falling off the mountain. Because he misstepped and hit a loose rock and it caused him to fall. It really threw me for a loop as well; I expected to get another Oops rewind scene when he fell. But nope, this time his power didn't work for reason so he can fall and be delivered for plot.
Well, if Inhumans does keep the trend that the first two episodes had, then I would suggest that they pull something like what the CW did with Legends of Tomorrow. Do something close to a soft reboot, and change the focus of the show.
Got canceled, which is impressive - Iron Fist got a second season for a soft reboot.
Wow, already cancelled? That sucks.
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
Well, if Inhumans does keep the trend that the first two episodes had, then I would suggest that they pull something like what the CW did with Legends of Tomorrow. Do something close to a soft reboot, and change the focus of the show.
Got canceled, which is impressive - Iron Fist got a second season for a soft reboot.
Thought for a second you meant Legends of Tomorrow got canceled. Whew!
I think the surfers don't entirely believe dude is from the moon. Inhuman stuff has been around for a couple years by now, so they're "used" to a dude with hooves for feet, but it's probably a bridge too far to think said dude is from outer space. Also, isn't the stereotype that surfers are super-chill? They're probably under-thinking it. Or they're all secret military badasses on leave or something.
Dude can't navigate a mountain because he has a concussion. Which may be outside of his experience since he's (almost) royalty and probably wins any sparring match (not fight, since apparently that doesn't happen) anyway.
Everything else, yeah I agree.
You know, I don't want this to be the hill I die on, but apparently it is? GODDAMNIT.
Karnak
Karnak got his concussion from falling off the mountain. Because he misstepped and hit a loose rock and it caused him to fall. It really threw me for a loop as well; I expected to get another Oops rewind scene when he fell. But nope, this time his power didn't work for reason so he can fall and be delivered for plot.
Yeah.
Even if the guy had never seen a mountain before, you'd think he'd enable his Sands of Time before attempting to climb it, not after failing. I mean, why wouldn't he use that power at every turn? There doesn't seem to be a limit to it.
Does cancelled mean that they're not even going to show the rest of the miniseries, or just that there's no Inhumans show after the miniseries?
Bit early to be calling thank god, not like we're getting a good Inhumans show to replace it. Maybe this one would have improved. Even possible it will end good (I am an optimist).
Bit early to be calling thank god, not like we're getting a good Inhumans show to replace it. Maybe this one would have improved. Even possible it will end good (I am an optimist).
If any good comes of it, the characters who aren't awful can be ported into a season or two of SHIELD... If it lasts another season now that it's moved to the Friday night killbox.
Bit early to be calling thank god, not like we're getting a good Inhumans show to replace it. Maybe this one would have improved. Even possible it will end good (I am an optimist).
Agents of Shield is a good Inhumans show to replace it.
Bit early to be calling thank god, not like we're getting a good Inhumans show to replace it. Maybe this one would have improved. Even possible it will end good (I am an optimist).
If any good comes of it, the characters who aren't awful can be ported into a season or two of SHIELD... If it lasts another season now that it's moved to the Friday night killbox.
If they do that they need to start from scratch, take the show out of continuity completely.
It's interesting to me both in a "so bad, it's somewhat funny" kind of way, but also as an example of how not to write. Prediction:
Because the Inhumans are slumming it on earth, they'll see the error of their ways regarding the caste system through their interactions with humans, and implement what Maximus has wanted all along, except he won't be able to enjoy it for whatever reason (exiled, killed, turned brainless as a result of his scheme to have a second Terrigenesis, etc.).
It's interesting to me both in a "so bad, it's somewhat funny" kind of way, but also as an example of how not to write. Prediction:
Because the Inhumans are slumming it on earth, they'll see the error of their ways regarding the caste system through their interactions with humans, and implement what Maximus has wanted all along, except he won't be able to enjoy it for whatever reason (exiled, killed, turned brainless as a result of his scheme to have a second Terrigenesis, etc.).
Concussion dude plot is wasting screen time and going to some OOOK places to do it (both the developments of it make little sense, I have yet to see the newest ep, though).
Posts
Who's been doing that?
Many people in many corners of the internet, wasn't thinking of anyone in particular.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
Disagree respectfully.
Surfers.
Bad Haircuts.
Worse Effects.
Bad Editing.
edit: And I do think that the trailers did the show no favors at all.
That was Marvel being cheap
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
It suffers from the problem I was talking about. Even if it's just "mediocre", it's now seen as part of a larger trend that started with Iron Fist and continued on through Defenders, even though the latter was largely just "meh" as opposed to "holy shit this is bad".
This happens all the time in media, in both directions. If a season of something is particularly good or notable, that season in and of itself may not actually get the ratings bump - it will be the season afterwards that sees the increase. We saw this with The Dark Knight trilogy (with the third movie seeing the highest totals even though it was arguably the weakest of the three).
And, if you believe the third-party metrics, Iron Fist managed similar release numbers to its predecessors, but Defenders saw a huge decrease in viewership even though it should've been an Avengers-level event for the various Netflix franchises. I mean, that was the whole reason they shoved IF down our throats in the first place.
I mean, it all depends on your standards and expectations. If the standard is "the typical tripe that gets shoveled onto network TV day in and day out" then sure, it's no worse than lots of other things on TV. The thing is that Marvel has built a brand that has come to represent standards much higher than that. They have a reputation that everything they touch turns to gold.
I know there's a whole complicated mess between Marvel TV and Marvel Studios, but we are told that it's all one connected universe and the audience is mostly unaware of the behind-the-scenes politics. Up until now, the Marvel TV shows have done a mostly pretty good job of presenting something that feels like it fits into the MCU. The scale of the shows and characters are proportionate to the budgets and it works. Inhumans, however, is in no way believable as being part of the same world. I expect a secret city on the moon in the MCU to be beautiful and amazing, not to look like it was shot a couple blocks away in front of a local government building.
By the standards of typical network TV, the Inhumans pilot might be merely mediocre. But by the standards of Marvel, it was baaaaaaaaaad! Like really hilariously bad in so many ways. And coming off of Iron Fist and Defenders, it just makes me lose trust in the Marvel brand. Something is really wrong inside the company and I hope the brass over at Disney/Marvel Studios finally decides something has to be done about it.
Don't forget about poorly written characters and plot.
*nods furiously*
It also gave the show the smell of week old fish coming into it's TV premiere.
The whole surfer thing just hurt my brain. Like, how the fuck do surfers think they’re going to contend with assassins from the moon? These assassins obviously think they can handle Gorgon, so why do you think you stand a chance? And if Gorgon actually cares about their well-being, then why doesn’t he simply move to a different location? And why tell Maximus that you’re leaving your comm link on?
Why didn’t Karnak use his ability while climbing down the mountain? I mean, we saw him dissect a confrontation with armed guards mere moments before, but a stationary mountain is too complex for him to figure out?
The actor portraying Crystal is terrible. Maybe it’s the direction/director, but it’s really noticeable. It’s Star Wars prequels bad.
Dude can't navigate a mountain because he has a concussion. Which may be outside of his experience since he's (almost) royalty and probably wins any sparring match (not fight, since apparently that doesn't happen) anyway.
Everything else, yeah I agree.
You know, I don't want this to be the hill I die on, but apparently it is? GODDAMNIT.
Karnak
Got canceled, which is impressive - Iron Fist got a second season for a soft reboot.
Thought for a second you meant Legends of Tomorrow got canceled. Whew!
Yeah.
Does cancelled mean that they're not even going to show the rest of the miniseries, or just that there's no Inhumans show after the miniseries?
It's done, no new seasons in the pipeline.
If any good comes of it, the characters who aren't awful can be ported into a season or two of SHIELD... If it lasts another season now that it's moved to the Friday night killbox.
Also totally called
Agents of Shield is a good Inhumans show to replace it.
Brett Dalton gets to continue playing Ward as a completely different character every season as it is intended.
If they do that they need to start from scratch, take the show out of continuity completely.
It's interesting to me both in a "so bad, it's somewhat funny" kind of way, but also as an example of how not to write. Prediction:
I do, reluctantly, and late.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
I hope Medusa gets her damn hair back!
(Concussion Dude's thread is still somehow better than Hoof Man and the Surfer Army.)
The show has a pretty solid cast, jury's out on the Crystal actress - maybe she'll improve with a better script and more acting experience?