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The Spider-Man 3 Discussion Thread
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I went to a preview showing of XMen3, I swear the was people in there jerking off over Wolverine everytime he was on the screen
It's your money. If you want to go, then do it.
I've had the same problem with virtually every comic movie to come out, but I usually cave to the fanboy within and go see them. I'm STILL trying to wipe "Elektra" from my brain.
I ended up having to see Elektra as a trade off to getting a ride to see The Incredibles. Never before has the dichotomy between good and bad superhero films been more evident.
Well, I guess I didn't read the tag line on the poster, cause it was obviously 'Spider-Man 3: Everybody Cries'
It was one seriously bad movie (i'm so evil!you don't understand me! time to emo my hair...ohhh!), but I think eventually it will actually slip into the 'so-bad it's good' category, mainly due to the strutting / dance scenes that can't possibly taken seriously, nor watched while sober and in large due to a certain French waiters scene.
spoilers I guess...
The CONCEPTS of the movie, on PAPER, would seem great...but when watching, it seemed like a train wreck. (Anyone else bothered with Parker forgiving Sandman, both having a good cry together...even the one made of sand!, and just letting him go, though anyone with half a brain knows he will just commit more robberies for his daughter?)
oh..and fuck the butler! "I care for you guys alot.....oh by the way, I totally forgot to tell you the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER about your fathers death when it happened...my bad, i guess that would have cleared some stuff up."
Seriously...
Venom..oh, oh Venom. I think since people saw the Dock Ock/Spiderman fight in the second one, people have been wanting to see Venom and Spiderman go at it, but we only got a small sample of it here. I undestand the need of the construction setting because of Sadman, but can you imagine an all out battle between Venom and Spidey that goes through the whole city, with them webswinging? And what the fuck is up with them so soundly killing them off at the end?
The butlet scene is not an overblown nitpick. It's lazy, lazy writing. Same goes for the meteor. And people aren't bitching about Venom being in there for only half an hour because they're comic book geeks, they're bitching because he is completely underutilized and brings nothing to the story. And Peter's hair is stupid, because again, it's the laziest possible way to show he's changed. You can not tell me the moment he's walking out of that alley, stops and looks at a mirror, and pulls down his hair is a good scene.
I agree completely.
Circle gets the square.
But to say they ruined a two and a half hour movie is pretty stupid.
Incidentally, I didn't have a problem with the meteor thing, because as I said in an earlier post, I thought it tied in pretty well to the duality of Peter's "fate" that we get a lot in the comic books. And honestly, I was kind of glad that they didn't spend an hour explaining what the symbiote was and where it came from.
I honestly thought the entire reason they brought JJ's son in on the second movie was to use him as the reason for the symbiote getting to Earth, similar to the story in the 90s animated series. As it is now though, it kind of brings back a nagging pet peeve that I was willing to let go from 2 back to light, while irritating me about how lazy the introduction of the suit in 3 is.
Why didn't they use that story? It would have made a lot more sense than the movie version. As long as no one turns into a wolf because of a moon crystal or something...
That's the fault of the writing too thought. They did exactly what the old Batman movies did, especially later on. Too god damned many bad guys to be able to center in on any one for very long. Jesus, all three of these villains could have held their own in a movie. Two of them MIGHT have been doable without it feeling like too much. But three? That just reeks of Raimi wanting to stuff too much into the movie because he wasn't planning on doing anymore and still wanted to work with those characters.
edit: also, did you guys really think that raimi was taking himself seriously?? like...really? throughout all these "terrible" scenes, all i could think was "goddamn fucking raimi..." but in a good way. in a "oh yeah, he directed army of darkness, he's a silly bitch" kinda way. plot holes aside (those are pretty good nit picks), raimi went over the top for a reason. i really do think it's one of those "so bad-it's good" things he was attempting and in the end, while a little too overdone, i didn't mind it half as much as anyone technically "should."
Actually, I think it's been said a number of times in interviews that Venom was pretty much pushed on Raimi. Raimi is much more interest in the classic villains, and he had to be convinced that Venom would work. I see it as pretty much the higher ups telling him that he had to put Venom in the movie, hence the way he's used. Compare him to Dock Ock or Sandman, and Venom pales in comparison. Shame too, because I think Topher Grace nailed the character, and the overall look of Venom I liked.
I know it was pretty much Hollywood speak, but he did say a year or so ago that it was partially because of fan outcry, and partially because "he looked more into the character and found the depth of Peter's duality within it". The thing is,
Yea, I didn't get that either. And did we really see much of a duality between both characters? We saw the duality that existed between Peter himself, but there really wasn't enough interaction between Parker and Brock to catch a glimpse into it.
while topher should definitely have had more time on screen, once we get to the point to where he becomes venom i think we have enough insight into his character to see what choices he would make with all that power.
also
An extra 20 minutes to an already overblown movie? i could go for it if they cut other scenes down. But I think it was more of a budget thing. This movie's already costing Sony in the neighborhood of $350 million to produce and market ($250M for production, $100M for marketing), so I can't see Raimi coming to them saying "Yeah, I'm gonna need another $10-$15 million..."
Yeah, but again, Venom is a big enough fan favorite that he could have carried a movie on his own. They didn't need three villains in one movie. Hell, it's been shown over and over again that too many baddies in one flick is a bad thing, unless some of them are supposed to be rather one sided (like say, The Brotherhood in Xmen 1. The only one that really really mattered was Magneto and maybe Mystique). In this one though, Venom, Sandman, and Harry? Would anyone consider any of those characters throw away? (Well okay, maybe some would consider Sandman...).
Edit: I guess the problem is in the actual structure of the movie itself. It forced rushing stories by introducing too many characters. The answer wouldn't have been more money, it would have been concentrating on less characters with the time given.
The Venom aspect just gives me flashes of Bane in Batman And Robin. Not quite as shallow, but close.
I guess what irritates me is that they've done a decent job at forshadowing future characters in this. Well, not forshadowing so much as simply showing or telling you they exist. Mentioning Doc Connors in 1, then showing him in 2 and 3, giving you a nice little Lizard wink. Mentioning Brock in 1 (or was it 2?) then introducing him in three. Introducing JJ's son in 2 that I THOUGHT was going to be foreshadowing to the symbiote for 3. Harry seeing Spidey with Norman's body at the end of 1, simply feeding that plotline in 2, and having the full on New Goblin in 3. It seems Almost X3 like. They give you the feeling that certain things are coming, they do a decent job pacing things out with the first two movies, then they just rush all these aspects into the third.
I can definitely understand if they thought that a second Spidey/Goblin only movie would have been a bit much, but three baddies was still just overkill. The scene in the church really should have been at the end of 3 if they were following the same pacing as the other movies.
I'm not hating on the movie BTW. In a way, it's like X3 for me. I see the flaws, and the flaws are big, yet I was still able to enjoy.
i guess what cinches it for me is how much i really loved the ending. as a 3rd and final instalment, it is excellent. unlike with the other 2 movies, i'd be satisfied now if they stopped making them. one of the bigger problems with X3 was that there wasn't a whole lot leading up to its plot. there's a lot of relavent back story to spiderman 3, unlike X3.
or...eh...maybe i'm just a sap for those happy-feely moments.
Hehe, I wasn't comparing the actual flicks themselves
And damn it, no. Connors has either been in or mentioned in all three movies. They can NOT stop making them until I get a Lizard movie.
I was kind of surprised by no Lizard too. It always seemed like Raimi was leading up to him.
I think there was probably some fear of seeming redundant, what with gobbly and doc ock both being scientists that experiment on themselves and have something horrible happen to them.
Fair enough point. Though it would keep with the whole emo thing. Throw in problems with Doc Connors family when he changes, etc. Ya know, as much as I'm wowed by the movies visually... Jesus I'm sick of emo Peter. There was always this nagging feeling with Burton's Batman movies that he didn't quite get the character. I get the same nagging feeling with Raimi's Spider-Man.
Thinking about it, has there been a super hero movie (that also doesn't suck), that the writer/director/whomever hasn't attempted to "reach deep down into the soul of the characters to bring about their own interpretation of their universe", and just tried to make a nifty movie about the god damned source material? I'm having a hard time thinking of one... Hellboy maybe?
...Hmm? A Spider-Man thread you say?
fantastic four is not :P
That's why I said an example of a good adaptation.
*Cough* I guess this should probably go to the movie thread, eh?
So erm... Hows about that Spider-Man?
This, a thousand times this. All of the emo stuff was entirely tongue in cheek. At the showing I went to, the crowd was perfect. Everyone got all the jokes, everyone laughed when he swept his hair aside, people clapped when he wrecked people's shit, it was awesome. You have to remember a few things:
1. Spider-Man is directed by the same guy that did Army of Darkness. Bruce Campbell is a good friend of his.
2. Spider-Man is a cheesy kind of guy in the first place.
3. Comics are not ivory towers of artistic greatness, and I think it's cool Raimi didn't take himself too seriously with the film.
I mean, jesus, anyone remember when May got engaged to Doc Ock? Or when Peter made a bat out of webbing to freak out Johnny (That can actually glide)? Or maybe when he had the spider-mobile? Anyway, it wasn't a perfect movie, and it wasn't as good as 2, because of the forced and speedy ending, but i really liked it.
But all in all I liked it pretty well.
It would be hard to explain Connors becoming the Lizard in the movies, considering Movie Connors is a physicist, not a geneticist.
I am not complaining overall, loved the black suit and Venom, altough that seemed to be completely overshadow by Sandman. I mean, I think Sandman was just covering the entire thing, even "New Goblin"'s grudge with Spidey.
Bruce Campbell=genius by the way. Jona Jameson was just as funny as he was in the first two films.
But at least it wasn't Elektra bad. I am looking forward IF Toby Maguire resumes his role as Spidey in the next film.
Assuming there will be one.
I think The Lizard appearing in the 3rd movie would feel way too early. But that's just me.
I loved the Spider-man/Human Torch Spider-mobile, how Pete explains he can't drive.
Also: If "all" of his powers failed, why is he visibly damaging the wall? That takes a bit of superstrength.
Could someone explain this to me... I mean I'm going to read it, but WTF?!?