The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Penny Arcade - PATV - DLC Podcast Show – Medley
Dog
Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
Penny Arcade - PATV - DLC Podcast Show – Medley
This week Gabe and Tycho create the comic Medley. Listen to the podcast here.
Unknown User on
0
Posts
Yes, Divx appearing at random is just a thing now.
This is why we can't have nice things. Why couldn't the people who didn't like it just... not watch it?
I don't know. I liked most episodes. I'll admit that I only ever really spoke up about the ones I didn't like, which definitely makes me part of the problem. I think the idea of "play a game for 15 minutes and then judge it accordingly" (not my description, it accompanies every video) is fundamentally flawed. I don't actually know how you can form an opinion in 15 minutes. Hell, I hated the first 8 hours of Destiny and it ended up becoming one of my top 5 games ever.
That's the entire point though. Judging a game on 15 minutes it's hard to tell anything but snap decisions. That's why it's very clearly nothing but entertainment. They are judging it. And that is fun for people. It tells what they are doing. If that concept isn't something that meshes with a person why would they keep coming back? The two sentences I bolded have nothing to do with the show and is kind of part of the problem. People kept treating it like some kind of review thing.
I hope you don't take this as an attack or something on your post it's not at all! I understand your point of view but I know tone can be rough on the internet.
The general issue is that people whose response was nothing but piles of negativity would keep watching and keep saying the same stuff. If something is giving a person that many negative feelings they really should stop doing that thing. Now what happened is a thing that people enjoyed is gone completely. Was that the end goal with the negativity? It really turned into a "I don't like this thing so NO ONE should get to like this thing" which is a horrible mentality to have.
Oh for sure. The whole reason I watched was for Mike and Jerry being Mike and Jerry. They were just being themselves. Two dudes who are close friends playing games together and reacting how they do. It was awesome.
To change how they were acting would make in no longer real. That was the whole thing, they weren't trying to be anything or do any sort of bit, it was just them being real and that's what made it the show it was.
As much as I like Jerry's insights, it's actually been much more educational to see how Mike reacts to games. Many people paint it as shallow, but it's just about how much artwork matters to him when it comes to games. That's how his brain processes things. Jerry is much more like me, though with him he makes it clear he doesn't give a shit about artwork. I'm more in between. More and more these days, though, with the plethora of games I don't have time to play, I feel my balance shifting towards the "I'm never going to be able to play all these fantastic games, so why don't I prioritize the ones with fantastic gameplay AND fantastic artwork" point of view.
I get why people feel it's tiresome, because Mike always has the same approach, and it doesn't fit them and they feel it detracts from their viewing pleasure. But he's just being consistent. And he isn't the one choosing the games. I think they could probably choose games that he'd love that are also fantastic games. But to some degree, I think they torture him on purpose. And I admit a certain glee in it. The results are often so wonderful.
My point with the Destiny comment was actually more about seeing it from Mikes side. I'd probably judge most games negatively in the first 15 minutes as well.
The only time I ever get upset with the show is when Mikes rants are just completely one note the whole time and maybe a little more time would help (probably not, this is just off the cuff). I actually thought the Nioh episode was mostly fine because, while Mike still went on a rant, he gave some actual reasons why he didn't like what was going on and I felt like he actually gave it somewhat of a chance from the start.
I think the only time I got annoyed enough to post about it was with that wizard game? It looked bad but he decided he didn't like it before he even played it. And he never really gave any reasons why other than "it's shit" "its bad" "it's a student project" etc. At that point I'm just kind of watching a guy be miserable. It seemed like nobody involved wanted to be there and was just sort of uncomfortable for me. Even Mike says on this podcast that he finds doing First 15 extremely stressful. I just don't want to watch a guy doing something he doesn't want to do and have his stress come through as anger.
But that's not every episode. There's a bunch where Mike seems delightfully surprised by what he's playing and they deconstruct what they like about it. Those are MY favorite episodes, and from Jerry's comment about trying to find the diamond in the rough (I think that was the phrase he used) it sounds like THAT is the actual intent of First 15. At least from Jerry's point of view.
If people don't like one episode out of ten, I don't think it's fair to tell those people to just stop watching all together. It's also not fair to imply that people are over-entitled jerks for going into a discussion formum about an episode and trying to discuss what they didn't like about said episode.
I don't think that's entirely fair. He pointed out over and over that the art design felt very lacking. Granted, not in those diplomatic terms. Also, he's stated over and over that roguelike/procedurally generated games are not his thing.
I think it's fair when you get comments like in that other thread where Mike wasn't on an episode and people still complained, because if he had been there, they knew he was just be saying things they didn't like. I don't think people can help feeling like maybe those people are over-entitled jerks.
And I know you thought I was attacking you on that, but I was trying to make it clear that I was asking THAT guy (well, the guy who chimed in an defended him) why he keeps watching. And even that wasn't an attack. I literally don't get why these people continue to watch. I get where you're coming from, even if I disagree that you're being entirely fair like in the above. I think you remember more the broad outline of Mike not liking something rather than where he did actually lay out a coherent reasoning.
In any case, I think Mike will probably eventually bow out due to both the high level and low level criticism. It's not like people are criticizing something he likes to do. Either that, or he'll start wanting to pre-screen the games better.
Those aren't the people I'm calling the issue though. If that's your only issue I'm not saying you are one of those people. That's why I tried to clarify above that I was not attacking you or your viewpoint. However you seem to be lumping all of the people that didn't like an episode or discussed an episode with the people complaining about the same thing every episode including episodes where that thing didn't happen but they still seemingly wanted to complain about something.
What you are defending and the ones being spoken about are not the same thing.
I'm not talking about "you" in any of this. I don't know you! You don't need to make a defense against all of this.
Even with the review example above, people were constantly talking about it from a review point. If you weren't, then good! There's no reason for you to make a defense for your side there because you are specifically not side that's being discussed. But that doesn't change that it was an issue and there were other people on that side of things who kept harping on how 15 minutes isn't enough time to be coming to the conclusions they were coming to when that was the ENTIRE point of the format!
In that case I very definitely got lumped into one group with people who were uninterested in an actual conversation and made to feel like an asshole for having an opinion and expressing it in the exact place I should be able to constructively express that opinion.
Anyway, one of you brought up an interesting note about pre-screening games. It made me wonder about who actually is choosing these games. Are Mike and Jerry choosing at random or is someone deciding for them? If it's the latter, than that person may be a secret evil villain because they're definitely trying to get Mike riled up with their choices.
I'm not sure how much time he's given to cultivate them. Or he might actually be trying to kill Mike, as Mike has speculated. I hope he doesn't edit out the part where he eats Mike's heart to gain his power.
Note on this: In the video above he specifically says he doesn't want to do it any more and they will try something else. That's where the conversation came from in this thread. It wasn't even a maybe sort of thing.
It has sounded like Josh does some of the picking because they usually ask him about the games and stuff.
Man when this whole fiasco started weeks ago I said something along the lines of "this is just Mike being Mike, this is the Mike he has always been if you watched/read a lot of the behind the scenes stuff and followed what he does"
And a bunch of people kept telling me that it wasn't and it must've been him feeling some way because of his surgery.
Like, they have gotten into all sorts of fiascos over the years specifically because Mike says what he feels and shits on stuff he doesn't like at an instant. Hell how many comics do they have where they completely shit on how something looks? You know where that comes from? Real conversations they have where Mike takes a look at something, goes off on it and then it becomes a comic. That's been him forever!
So it was kinda nice in a way to hear him say in this that that's just how he is.
I don't know where this other idea came from that he wasn't acting like himself though.
Man, a fascinating thing would be if Jerry absolutely hated a game and Mike tried to understand why.
*Edit*
Man, I just imagined Jerry going off on a game like Mike does, and I think I just got a glimpse of your side of the fence. That sounds incredible.
Edit: Oh, and Mike and Jerry also sometimes play games on there, just not First 15 games. Or not just the First 15 of the games. They played Snipperclips all the way through.
Edit2: And if you want to see a REALLY brutal one, you can watch the aborted First 15 for Monster Slayers: https://twitch.tv/videos/137154370
And holy shit, you're not kidding. That was rough. You know when Mike looked at Jerry, and he was like "HOW CAN YOU LIKE THIS?" Imagine that's how I'm looking at you right now, haha. Is this the stream he was referring to in the podcast? I thought he mentioned the dev was in the stream at the time. I hope the poor guy is ok.
Now I've been able to make better choices about which games to buy; gameplay is important but so are visuals, and I'm more likely to spend money on something like Horizon, which kept me riveted all the way through.
Watching them recording is no different than watching the youtube vids for first 15. First 15 is actually just one section cut out of those videos. So if you watched that you were already watching just the recorded version of those sessions.
Hey, I'm not saying it's a logical thing on my part. It just feels like watching a sports game a day late. Everyone else already knows what happened. At least I assume thats how sports watching works for people who enjoy sports watching.
And I actually hadn't realized First 15 was recorded live.
Haha, I understand ya we all have some weird things like that.
But yea they would do a live session of like 4-5 different first 15s then pick the one they thought would make the best video and post that one. So there are actually a bunch of first 15s you probably haven't seen yet. So for those at least I'd suggest checking the twitch VODs. They are labelled as first 15 live streams. a few have Jerry with other people as well.
Oddly enough, I know what you mean. I'm a bit that way with some of their episodes where there's a lot of chat going on and they're responding to it. But I have found those are nice to put on in the background sometimes.
Nah, the dev was totally cool about it. He said something like, "I think I broke Mike." He also said he totally understood why his game wasn't for Mike. He could have just been playing it cool, but he seemed to be happy that his game was getting lots of play and exposure. They had already done another stream of Jerry and Mike Beuland (sp? Sorry, Mike. If you're reading this correct me!) playing Monster Slayers for literally 2 hours STRAIGHT: https://twitch.tv/videos/136722201
Anyway, but yeah I get not wanting to be "that guy" or whatever. Just wanted to say I enjoyed it and valued it and will miss it.