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The Russian/Trump Investigation - Sessions' stonewalling session

ElkiElki get busyModerator, ClubPA mod
edited June 2017 in Debate and/or Discourse
Kicking off the new week with a combination of previous threads. Now that we're out of the craziest week of non-stop stories so far - maybe. *starts a countdown clock*

This thread is for talking about:

The election interference and collusion investigation, both in the FBI and congress.
The firing of James Comey, and continuing fallout of it.
The search for a new FBI director.
The special counsel, Robert Mueller.
Any further claims about wiretapping of Donald Trump.

Things we will not be talking about:

Impeachment, until further notice. So far this includes a lot of speculation with the investigation itself remaining unresolved, so we're leaving it off the table until a notable event happens.
The media.


Official prevention of cross contamination post.

Trump's foreign trip and other foreign policy issues: Foreign Policy Thread
Trump admin/family corruption and grift not related to Russia: Corruption/Grift/Ethics Violations in the Trump Administration
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Trump admin/government's treatment of the press: Freedom of the Press Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread

Reminder: Watergate comparison/discussion is on topic here, but don't get too into the weeds on it.

/straps in for another week

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So It Goes on
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    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    I'm a little terrified at another week that might have as many reveals as last week. I've never seen anything like it. I dunno if my heart can take it.

    Aside from Spicer's comments, have we gotten any reaction from Trump himself? Seeing as he was flying when Friday's news hit.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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    LabelLabel Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    I just want to take a second and reflect on the fact that Trump was in a meeting in the Whitehouse, bragging to the Russian diplomats, about firing his chief counter-intelligence officer because that officer was investigating Trump for colluding with Russia. And then saying the heat was going to be off of him now.



    Because holy shit. Let's try not to get totally numb to everything. I know I'm forgetting to do that.

    Label on
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    HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017
    I can only imagine the indignities that await us as a nation in the coming months weeks days, that will largely, I'm sure, pour forth from Trump's deeds speeches tweets.

    EDIT: Also the notion that Trump and co. want us to believe that firing the director of the FBI should be regarded as some kind of savvy political quid pro quo is fucking hilarious in a "I'm laughing because the downfall of American global hegemony has at last arrived" kind of way.

    Hacksaw on
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    SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    So is this now a unified thread for Comey Firing / US + Russia stuff? The part of my brain that likes things to be organised is tipping it's hat.

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Now that the weekend has passed, I feel like the general American populace is probably just gonna shrug and forget about it. Investigations take long so real developments aren't likely to happen for months.

    Dracil on
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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Dracil wrote: »
    Now that the weekend has passed, I feel like the general American populace is probably just gonna shrug and forget about it. Investigations take long so real developments aren't likely to happen for months.

    Things will pick up when the investigation digs up an interesting morsel, then Trump's admin reacts making it worse - keeping it in two cycles rather than one etc.

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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    I'm guessing Trump will be too busy with his trip this week to make it as crazy as last week.

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    He's been fairly quiet for a few days now. I think he might actually be rattled.

    Listening to the radio, a special counsel will likely lead to things quieting for a bit too as people are going to wait to hear what Mueller finds.

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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Scooter wrote: »
    I'm guessing Trump will be too busy with his trip this week to make it as crazy as last week.

    Supposedly he's very tired. The demands of the trip are exhausting him.

    Shadowhope on
    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »
    I'm guessing Trump will be too busy with his trip this week to make it as crazy as last week.

    Supposedly he's very tired. The demands of the trip are exhausting him.

    Low energy. Sad.
    I wonder if he'll get back and be convinced to just stop talking about it, as the furore about it is going to die down (at least publicly) without him bumping it back up with every tweet.
    I hope he doesn't learn that lesson, a huge part of his self-destruction is going to be from him sending people out to liedefend him when he's been slighted, if he learns to ignore it, it's going to be harder to pin him to the wall.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Did a bit of quick Googling to try to get my timeline straight, and someone was way ahead of me:

    Fairly detailed timeline up until last Thursday. It is missing the stuff that broke on Friday, which was fairly major.

    E: Which is to say, the news that Trump bragged to the Russians in his meeting that he fired Comey to get the pressure off of himself. Also the news that one of the WH senior staff was a "person of interest" in a Russia-related investigation (speculated to be Kushner).

    silence1186 on
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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    White House Moves to Block Ethics Inquiry Into Ex-Lobbyists on Payroll
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/us/politics/trump-white-house-government-ethics-lobbyists.html?smid=tw-share

    While not directly linked to the Russia issue, it does probably offer a preview into the defense methods of the White House. And I think it indicates they're willing to use legal loopholes to stymie the investigation. Which should be fun.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Mueller has enough power that he likely isn't going to give a shit.

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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Same thing with the trick they're trying to pull to keep Kushner from being investigated. It's not going to work.

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    silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Also similar to the trick DoJ is using to stop lawyers from representing asylum cases.

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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Mueller has enough power that he likely isn't going to give a shit.

    They will invoke a conflict of interest clause within the US Department of Government Ethics that states that Mueller cannot investigate persons that the law firms he previously worked for represented. The White House will claim that it doesn't matter that he didn't personally work to represent Trump or his associates.

    In normal conditions, I could see some validity to that claim as Mueller could have garnered inside information that could be used against Trump. However, in this case, I am confident that the USDoGE will recognize that there's more than enough Trump corruption to invalidate the need to use any potentially tainted information in the investigation.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Trump managed to ride out the headlines pretty well through this past weekend. Now that he's on an international trip, literally all of the news headlines have moved away from the investigation and onto fairly normal-ish evaluations of international policy.

    Mueller probably isn't going to give periodic updates, so unless someone leaks something out of the White House this week this'll probably get buried for awhile.

    What is this I don't even.
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Trump managed to ride out the headlines pretty well through this past weekend. Now that he's on an international trip, literally all of the news headlines have moved away from the investigation and onto fairly normal-ish evaluations of international policy.

    Mueller probably isn't going to give periodic updates, so unless someone leaks something out of the White House this week this'll probably get buried for awhile.

    I attribute that to him being in a metal can with very limited external access. NPR's message this morning was how he had managed to stay on message, but how he was very bat at remaining on-message over time. He's going to explode about this at some point.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Whoa


    BREAKING: AP Source says Michael Flynn to decline Senate Intel committee subpoena, invoke 5th Amendment later today.

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    TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    What does it mean to decline a subpoena? Is that even possible?

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    mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    What does it mean to decline a subpoena? Is that even possible?

    Yes ? You say "I cannot answer those questions, as it would be self-incrimination".
    In a Canadian context, the committee then says "ok, it's going to be a confidential closed door meeting. Start talking."
    I don't know what the US equivalent is.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I thought you had to show up regardless and then just plead the fifth.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I thought you had to show up regardless and then just plead the fifth.

    Contempt of Congress isn't as big a thing as Contempt of Court. Contempt of Court you can potentially spend forever in jail (and since you hold your own key this is legal), but the worst I've heard of from Contempt of Congress is a fine that nobody involved here would think twice of.

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    It certainly looks bad though!

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Whoa


    BREAKING: AP Source says Michael Flynn to decline Senate Intel committee subpoena, invoke 5th Amendment later today.

    Is it possible he thinks they mean to make him testify that has a sub-standard peen?

    Ok, so as dumb as they (Trump's runnin' crew) are, I know they know what a subpoena is.

    But I also know that if it really were a subpoena to address their sub peenas, it would make them really mad and unnecessarily defensive.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I don't think you can invoke the 5th to avoid a subpoena. You have to show up and invoke the 5th to specific questions.

    What is this I don't even.
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Trump managed to ride out the headlines pretty well through this past weekend. Now that he's on an international trip, literally all of the news headlines have moved away from the investigation and onto fairly normal-ish evaluations of international policy.

    Mueller probably isn't going to give periodic updates, so unless someone leaks something out of the White House this week this'll probably get buried for awhile.

    he'll come back and start tweeting again and make it all headlines once more

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    JoeUser wrote: »
    It certainly looks bad though!

    For Flynn how it looks doesn't matter. He's political poison with legal problems that have the potential for many years in jail. He's not running for anything and this is time for him to find a good lawyer and say absolutely nothing; how it looks is the least of his problems.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    It certainly looks bad though!

    For Flynn how it looks doesn't matter. He's political poison with legal problems that have the potential for many years in jail. He's not running for anything and this is time for him to find a good lawyer and say absolutely nothing; how it looks is the least of his problems.

    Yeah, I think the only thing that would really change anything here is how Trump reacts to this shit. He's previously demonstrated an extreme willingness to defend Flynn.

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    CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    It certainly looks bad though!

    For Flynn how it looks doesn't matter. He's political poison with legal problems that have the potential for many years in jail. He's not running for anything and this is time for him to find a good lawyer and say absolutely nothing; how it looks is the least of his problems.

    He's the most likely person to end up in jail from this administration.

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    dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Even though he's been denied immunity, he may still end out wanting to talk about some stuff for the benefit of cooperation reducing the charges if any are filed right?

    Flynn is a dumpster human being, but I'd rather see him cooperate and get a deal if it means more people are caught up in this thing who deserve to be.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    It certainly looks bad though!

    For Flynn how it looks doesn't matter. He's political poison with legal problems that have the potential for many years in jail. He's not running for anything and this is time for him to find a good lawyer and say absolutely nothing; how it looks is the least of his problems.

    Yeah, I think the only thing that would really change anything here is how Trump reacts to this shit. He's previously demonstrated an extreme willingness to defend Flynn.

    But what if he takes the 5th? Remember in the debates he slammed Hilary for her and her aides taking the 5th, because only mobsters take the 5th.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-pleading-the-fifth_us_57ed79dee4b024a52d2de46d

    Oh, right. I forgot.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    I think he's trying to force that deal.
    "I plead the Fifth; you want me to say anything, you have to give me immunity."

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    It certainly looks bad though!

    For Flynn how it looks doesn't matter. He's political poison with legal problems that have the potential for many years in jail. He's not running for anything and this is time for him to find a good lawyer and say absolutely nothing; how it looks is the least of his problems.

    I meant it looks bad for Trump. This was his National Security Advisor!

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I think he's trying to force that deal.
    "I plead the Fifth; you want me to say anything, you have to give me immunity."

    There is a fairly strong legal argument that if he is compelled to say anything in front of Congress then he gets a de facto grant of immunity. If you want Flynn in prison then you probably do not want his testimony compelled.

    If you want Trump in prison on the other hand...

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    It certainly looks bad though!

    For Flynn how it looks doesn't matter. He's political poison with legal problems that have the potential for many years in jail. He's not running for anything and this is time for him to find a good lawyer and say absolutely nothing; how it looks is the least of his problems.

    I meant it looks bad for Trump. This was his National Security Advisor!

    I'm pretty sure that Flynn has realized that Trump is more than willing to let Flynn sink for Trump's wrongdoing.

    And I personally don't think that anyone should give Flynn an immunity deal or even a generous one. The Trump ship is full of leaks and is sinking. I think that the same information can be garnered from other resources.

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Congress should not give him immunity, because that screws with the criminal investigation

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    PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    It certainly looks bad though!

    For Flynn how it looks doesn't matter. He's political poison with legal problems that have the potential for many years in jail. He's not running for anything and this is time for him to find a good lawyer and say absolutely nothing; how it looks is the least of his problems.

    I meant it looks bad for TrumpObama! This was his National Security Advisor!

    Remember Flynn was just an associate of the campaign. Maybe an intern? Didn't even trust him to get coffee. Unlike obama who gave him clearance!

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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Are we sure of this? Trump's been incredibly loyal to Flynn, it seems, even going so far as to say he'd like to have him back on his team once this all calms over.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
This discussion has been closed.