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  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    so Ontario is moving to a $15 minimum wage

    a guy i know from high school owns a landscaping business and is outraged. he thinks he might not be able to afford to stay in business. the current minimum wage is $11.40, which is $22,230 a year if you work 40-hour weeks with a half-hour unpaid break every day. that would go up to $29,250 at the new wage.

    multiple business organizations object to it, despite the Liberal government's claims that Ontario businesses are strong and can bear the increase

    I don't know enough about our economic situation or economics in general to make a judgement. It seems obvious that occasional minimum wage hikes are beneficial, as otherwise companies tend to exploit their workers, but it also seems trivially obvious that it is possible for a minimum wage to be too high and damage the economy (a min wage of $50/hour would obviously not work).

    is this hike too much? $3.60 is very significant, and the current provincial government has been plagued by problems so the argument that they're just trying to buy young and min-wage voters seems plausible.

    well it's a 31% wage hike which is perhaps a bit much all at once

    it's 31% only for people making minimum wage.
    This would only cause problems in a society with a smaller gap between rich and poor. Canada isn't as bad as the US in that respect (hell, the British Empire at it's worst wasn't as bad as the US in that respect) but still those making minimum wage make up too little of the economy (in terms of the amount of money flowing, not number of people) for this to cause problems.

    Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Colorado has dope food

    amazing Mexican due to a large Hispanic population. lots of Vietnamese and Thai immigrants so plenty of food there. Denver is a cosmopolitan metro area so you get other ethnic food scattered around (Ethiopian, Korean, etc)

    There's a lot of breweries that can't serve food due to zoning so food trucks have flourished to feed hungry drunks. There are lots of yuppies so Denver also has a thriving upscale restaurant scene. But not in the stuffy Michelin star kind of way, more in the pretentious hipster style.

    Lots of farm to table restaurants since CO has a ton of actual farms. Vegan and vegetarian options abound because Boulder. Plenty of great cheap food for students and stoners.

    There aren't many good bbq places which is maybe my biggest complaint. Also unless you're getting sushi there are not a ton of seafood options due to being landlocked. They're out there but they're pricey.

    So much good food in Denver. I put on 30 pounds in 3 years of living downtown.

    My favorite sushi place is still in Fort Collins. Nemo's is the bomb.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Quid wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    Watching The Keepers (which is horrifying, btw) and this Baltimore accent is gonna drive me insane.

    Every "oh" sound is pronounced like "eeeeeoh,"

    aghhhh

    wife is watching that and Handmaid's tale and I'm like why?

    Because Handmaid's Tale is phenomenal.

    It is the single most exquisite punch to the face I have ever experienced.

    Yeah it sounds great, even though I don't wanna be punched

  • AbdyAbdy Registered User regular
    because we have a system where it is not implemented unless an industry seems to need it, and then it is done via general application of tariff agreements - everybody in that industry gets paid according to the tariff agreements with the unions

    construction is one, for example. The minimum for unskilled workers without experience is $20.59 (with one year's experience, one dollar more)

    ftOqU21.png
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    our minimum wage is N/A

    you also have beautiful, oil-funded social safety nets, free college, free(ish) healthcare, workers protection that goes way beyond our own and a culture that favors the greater good over purely capitalist outcomes.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • permapensivepermapensive Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Colorado has dope food

    amazing Mexican due to a large Hispanic population. lots of Vietnamese and Thai immigrants so plenty of food there. Denver is a cosmopolitan metro area so you get other ethnic food scattered around (Ethiopian, Korean, etc)

    There's a lot of breweries that can't serve food due to zoning so food trucks have flourished to feed hungry drunks. There are lots of yuppies so Denver also has a thriving upscale restaurant scene. But not in the stuffy Michelin star kind of way, more in the pretentious hipster style.

    Lots of farm to table restaurants since CO has a ton of actual farms. Vegan and vegetarian options abound because Boulder. Plenty of great cheap food for students and stoners.

    There aren't many good bbq places which is maybe my biggest complaint. Also unless you're getting sushi there are not a ton of seafood options due to being landlocked. They're out there but they're pricey.

    So much good food in Denver. I put on 30 pounds in 3 years of living downtown.

    My favorite sushi place is still in Fort Collins. Nemo's is the bomb.

    Dude I went to Sushi Den for New Year's

    There's a reason everyone is hype about it. Best meal I've ever had.

    ex9pxyqoxf6e.png
  • AbdyAbdy Registered User regular
    it's going to be phased in for October 2018, which seems very soon

    my total layman's reaction is that a minimum wage hike could be good, but not one that big. it's just so much for a small business to absorb.

    oh it's for October 2018?

    Then they can shut up. That's plenty of time to rework your business model.

    ftOqU21.png
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    so Ontario is moving to a $15 minimum wage

    a guy i know from high school owns a landscaping business and is outraged. he thinks he might not be able to afford to stay in business. the current minimum wage is $11.40, which is $22,230 a year if you work 40-hour weeks with a half-hour unpaid break every day. that would go up to $29,250 at the new wage.

    multiple business organizations object to it, despite the Liberal government's claims that Ontario businesses are strong and can bear the increase

    I don't know enough about our economic situation or economics in general to make a judgement. It seems obvious that occasional minimum wage hikes are beneficial, as otherwise companies tend to exploit their workers, but it also seems trivially obvious that it is possible for a minimum wage to be too high and damage the economy (a min wage of $50/hour would obviously not work).

    is this hike too much? $3.60 is very significant, and the current provincial government has been plagued by problems so the argument that they're just trying to buy young and min-wage voters seems plausible.

    "I can only stay in business if my employees are exclusively making too little to afford the cost of living" doesn't seem like the kind of argument that a savvy businessman should be making

    well, that depends on what the cost of living is, and largely on housing availability/costs. $1850 a month means you'd want to spend about $400 to $600 a month on rent, ideally, which is completely plausible with a roommate or two in my city--but maybe not so much in Toronto, where many more people in the province live.

    again, it might just be that the increase is too large in too short a period of time.

  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    it's going to be phased in for October 2018, which seems very soon

    my total layman's reaction is that a minimum wage hike could be good, but not one that big. it's just so much for a small business to absorb.

    Unfortunately its bad for small business but its needed cause rent is skyrocketing and cost of living keeps going up with the weakening dollar.

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    it's going to be phased in for October 2018, which seems very soon

    my total layman's reaction is that a minimum wage hike could be good, but not one that big. it's just so much for a small business to absorb.

    Unfortunately its bad for small business but its needed cause rent is skyrocketing and cost of living keeps going up with the weakening dollar.

    this is the thing, I don't think it's really that necessary in Ottawa (where this guy is) but in Toronto and its environs the argument seems much stronger

    and I believe a solid majority of the province's inhabitants are in Toronto and its environs

  • TavTav Irish Minister for DefenceRegistered User regular
    I went to go see Swans

    They play too loudly and my ears are ringing

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    Tav wrote: »
    I went to go see Swans

    They play too loudly and my ears are ringing

    I am generally not an earbuds-at-the-concert guy, but there are definitely some acts that warrant it.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    another point to remember is that small business are an anomaly. They only exist either as temporary inefficiencies waiting to be "smoothed over" or because of rigorous government protection. The more free the markets are the more efficiently they produce monopolies that ruthlessly absorb or stamp out any smaller companies.

    "you didn't build that" was a rare moment of truth-telling

    Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    Okay, stream is back up.

    https://twitch.tv/visiblehowl

    vRyue2p.png
  • AbdyAbdy Registered User regular
    so Ontario is moving to a $15 minimum wage

    a guy i know from high school owns a landscaping business and is outraged. he thinks he might not be able to afford to stay in business. the current minimum wage is $11.40, which is $22,230 a year if you work 40-hour weeks with a half-hour unpaid break every day. that would go up to $29,250 at the new wage.

    multiple business organizations object to it, despite the Liberal government's claims that Ontario businesses are strong and can bear the increase

    I don't know enough about our economic situation or economics in general to make a judgement. It seems obvious that occasional minimum wage hikes are beneficial, as otherwise companies tend to exploit their workers, but it also seems trivially obvious that it is possible for a minimum wage to be too high and damage the economy (a min wage of $50/hour would obviously not work).

    is this hike too much? $3.60 is very significant, and the current provincial government has been plagued by problems so the argument that they're just trying to buy young and min-wage voters seems plausible.

    "I can only stay in business if my employees are exclusively making too little to afford the cost of living" doesn't seem like the kind of argument that a savvy businessman should be making

    it can very well be the absolute truth

    ftOqU21.png
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    apparently New York and California plan to go up to $15, but in 2021 and 2022

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    so Ontario is moving to a $15 minimum wage

    a guy i know from high school owns a landscaping business and is outraged. he thinks he might not be able to afford to stay in business. the current minimum wage is $11.40, which is $22,230 a year if you work 40-hour weeks with a half-hour unpaid break every day. that would go up to $29,250 at the new wage.

    multiple business organizations object to it, despite the Liberal government's claims that Ontario businesses are strong and can bear the increase

    I don't know enough about our economic situation or economics in general to make a judgement. It seems obvious that occasional minimum wage hikes are beneficial, as otherwise companies tend to exploit their workers, but it also seems trivially obvious that it is possible for a minimum wage to be too high and damage the economy (a min wage of $50/hour would obviously not work).

    is this hike too much? $3.60 is very significant, and the current provincial government has been plagued by problems so the argument that they're just trying to buy young and min-wage voters seems plausible.

    That is 11.40 USD and not much higher than Washington's and Massachusett's minimum wage so I don't see the big deal.

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017
    so Ontario is moving to a $15 minimum wage

    a guy i know from high school owns a landscaping business and is outraged. he thinks he might not be able to afford to stay in business. the current minimum wage is $11.40, which is $22,230 a year if you work 40-hour weeks with a half-hour unpaid break every day. that would go up to $29,250 at the new wage.

    multiple business organizations object to it, despite the Liberal government's claims that Ontario businesses are strong and can bear the increase

    I don't know enough about our economic situation or economics in general to make a judgement. It seems obvious that occasional minimum wage hikes are beneficial, as otherwise companies tend to exploit their workers, but it also seems trivially obvious that it is possible for a minimum wage to be too high and damage the economy (a min wage of $50/hour would obviously not work).

    is this hike too much? $3.60 is very significant, and the current provincial government has been plagued by problems so the argument that they're just trying to buy young and min-wage voters seems plausible.

    Those questsions are fair, but keep in mind businesses will complain about everything that effects their bottom line, no matter how trivial.

    I had to listen to several months worth of adds paid for by service stations about how switching to a 12 month WoF system will literally kill children.

    And I'm sure Labour's new policy of restricting mortage tax breaks to businesses will also kill children.

    Mortious on
    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    Los Angeles has begun ramping up to a $15 minimum wage; the final increase is set for July 1, 2020

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    DC I think is heading that way too.

    Most though are over 5 year periods to allow for adjustment.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    another point to remember is that small business are an anomaly. They only exist either as temporary inefficiencies waiting to be "smoothed over" or because of rigorous government protection. The more free the markets are the more efficiently they produce monopolies that ruthlessly absorb or stamp out any smaller companies.

    "you didn't build that" was a rare moment of truth-telling

    Minor point of contention: or in niche industries.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    And small businesses do not have to comply with the final rate until a year later

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    apparently there was already a long-term plan for gradual min wage increases in place for Ontario, as well, so this seems v much like election posturing given a lot of the premier's unpopular decisions recently

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    apparently New York and California plan to go up to $15, but in 2021 and 2022

    It's always pathetic how much terrible is gotten in giving people so little more than they already have.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    tumblr_oareltiR9x1uk5x82o1_540.jpg

  • simonwolfsimonwolf i can feel a difference today, a differenceRegistered User regular
    Okay but what if instead of raising the minimum wage we abolished the capitalist state

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    Yeah, if you want to hike it by double digit percentages, you need to do that over a few years.

    Good businesses can be built on a 10% profit margin, and that could be decimated if the business is labor-heavy by something like this.

    Give them time to adjust, slowly adjust their prices to reflect the changing market and let their customers ease into the higher price as well...

    Adding 3.40 over 4 years with a guaranteed .82/83c tick every year would be sustainable.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • AbdyAbdy Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    another point to remember is that small business are an anomaly. They only exist either as temporary inefficiencies waiting to be "smoothed over" or because of rigorous government protection. The more free the markets are the more efficiently they produce monopolies that ruthlessly absorb or stamp out any smaller companies.

    "you didn't build that" was a rare moment of truth-telling

    yeah, take landscaping, because that's a good example of an industry where you'll have a lot of minimum wage-based businesses

    price of it will go up, since all the landscaping actors need unskilled labour to some degree. But not by an equivalent amount, because willingness to pay for landscaping doesn't change.

    So the smaller ones, with the smallest margins, will need to either get less labour intensive - investing into more machinery, etc - or if they cannot, close down or get acquired by a larger actor

    which is not a big deal, since we're talking about the smallest firms here which matter little overall. And as for the small business owners, well, there never was any guarantee that their business would stay viable.


    for the rest of you it's like, well, landscaping gets a bit pricier, which was obviously considered to be worth it.


    Like here, of course we could collectively save money if the construction industry could exploit cheap foreign labour. But we'd rather not.

    EDIT: that said, doing it so quickly will mean that a bunch more businesses will close rather than survive, which is pointless, but then again, it's not a big deal

    Abdy on
    ftOqU21.png
  • permapensivepermapensive Registered User regular
    it's going to be phased in for October 2018, which seems very soon

    my total layman's reaction is that a minimum wage hike could be good, but not one that big. it's just so much for a small business to absorb.

    Unfortunately its bad for small business but its needed cause rent is skyrocketing and cost of living keeps going up with the weakening dollar.

    this is the thing, I don't think it's really that necessary in Ottawa (where this guy is) but in Toronto and its environs the argument seems much stronger

    and I believe a solid majority of the province's inhabitants are in Toronto and its environs

    I get what you're saying. The thing is over a longer term it'll self correct as small businesses adapt to having a larger client base with more disposable income

    in the short term it means business owners who can only turn a profit by exploiting an unsustainable wage will fold. This sucks for them

    There's a large net benefit to society to ensuring that work does more than just meet your minimum cost of living. That money gets back into the economy via spending, and people making minimum wage spend proportionately more of their income within their own communities than people making a middle class income. They don't save as much, they don't invest as much, they don't travel as much.

    Wages aren't money that gets set on fire never to be seen again. Wages get spent and go to someone else. A landlord, a grocery store, a utility company. Raising the minimum wage is, alongside food stamps, one of the most effective policies a government can enact in non-recession times to generate economic growth

    ex9pxyqoxf6e.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Like I'm fine with phasing in minimum wage increases, but 15 an hour in major cities over sometimes in excess of five years is ridiculously weak as is.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    The FPS issue appears to be resolved!

    vRyue2p.png
  • descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    do my homies got hobbies? sure / buying ferraris out the Robb Report

  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    Oh this Marvel Vs Capcom new "leak" is terrible Capcom plz
    Arthur
    Chris
    Chun-Li
    Dante
    Firebrand
    Jedah
    Monster Hunter
    Morrigan
    Nemesis
    Ryu
    Spencer
    Strider Hiryu
    X

    Ant-Man
    Captain America
    Captain Marvel
    Doctor Strange
    Gamora
    Hawkeye
    Hulk
    Iron Man
    Nova
    Rocket/Groot (this is how the character was named to me; I’m not sure if it’s just Rocket Raccoon with Groot assists or a redesigned character actually called Rocket/Groot)
    Spider-Man
    Thanos
    Thor
    Ultron

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    Oh this Marvel Vs Capcom new "leak" is terrible Capcom plz
    Arthur
    Chris
    Chun-Li
    Dante
    Firebrand
    Jedah
    Monster Hunter
    Morrigan
    Nemesis
    Ryu
    Spencer
    Strider Hiryu
    X

    Ant-Man
    Captain America
    Captain Marvel
    Doctor Strange
    Gamora
    Hawkeye
    Hulk
    Iron Man
    Nova
    Rocket/Groot (this is how the character was named to me; I’m not sure if it’s just Rocket Raccoon with Groot assists or a redesigned character actually called Rocket/Groot)
    Spider-Man
    Thanos
    Thor
    Ultron

    I mean, they are going to lean hard on the MCU because of licensing.

    I wouldn't have your fingers crossed for wolverine or juggernaut.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • BowenBowen Sup? Registered User regular
    If everyone didn't wait fucking 50 years to raise minimum wage it wouldn't have been a problem. If they just locked it to CoL and never touched it again everything would probably be hunky dory.

    Nope they sat on $5 for practically 20 years, then were like "oh shit this is not feasible" and put it to $7. Then were like "no wait this is still not really good" and not they're scrambling to put it where it should be.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Oh this Marvel Vs Capcom new "leak" is terrible Capcom plz
    Arthur
    Chris
    Chun-Li
    Dante
    Firebrand
    Jedah
    Monster Hunter
    Morrigan
    Nemesis
    Ryu
    Spencer
    Strider Hiryu
    X

    Ant-Man
    Captain America
    Captain Marvel
    Doctor Strange
    Gamora
    Hawkeye
    Hulk
    Iron Man
    Nova
    Rocket/Groot (this is how the character was named to me; I’m not sure if it’s just Rocket Raccoon with Groot assists or a redesigned character actually called Rocket/Groot)
    Spider-Man
    Thanos
    Thor
    Ultron

    I mean, they are going to lean hard on the MCU because of licensing.

    I wouldn't have your fingers crossed for wolverine or juggernaut.

    No the Marvel stuff is 100% expected and accepted by me. its the Capcom side I think is ass.

    Firebrand
    Nemesis
    Arthur
    Spencer

    no please no dig into the catalog more, dont recycle those scrubs

  • ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderator mod
    guys something is wrong with me

    i didn't do anything today

    like at all

    and i feel guilty about it

    like i should have made constructive use of my time

    i don't even know who i am anymore

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    belatedly re: 40k aesthetics

    tumblr_oqedlbMBzV1sicb5ko1_540.jpg

    duomo di milano

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    *zephiance turns on tv Return of the Jedi is playing.*
    Zephiance:"This is dumb I'm changing the channel."
    *turns on WWE smackdown*
    Zepherin: ?

  • TavTav Irish Minister for DefenceRegistered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    I went to go see Swans

    They play too loudly and my ears are ringing

    I am generally not an earbuds-at-the-concert guy, but there are definitely some acts that warrant it.

    I am usually an earplugs guy but I left mine at home accidentally

    I've been at enough festivals and seen enough bands like Sleep that I'd be bordering on deaf without them

This discussion has been closed.