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American Foreign Policy

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Posts

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Also, non-proliferation is likely dead since a very possible outcome of the NK situation is SK, Japan and even Taiwan deciding that they want some nukes too.

    Don't see Japan, though they will definitely up their breakout capacity if that changes. But South Korea probably.

    I think it was in the Asia thread the conservative parties (the one in power, and one even more stream quickly gaining power) were able to move on this the first time in decades. Not sure whether they'll pull it off, but there is movement there on this subject.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    BTW, Trump is already increasing the amount of military hardware being sold to SK and Japan.

    Which is why I think that a possible next step is the US selling them nukes. As I've said, this is the new Cold War, but one side (China) lost control over their proxies so is more likely that it gets hot.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    BTW, Trump is already increasing the amount of military hardware being sold to SK and Japan.

    Which is why I think that a possible next step is the US selling them nukes. As I've said, this is the new Cold War, but one side (China) lost control over their proxies so is more likely that it gets hot.

    The other side lost control over itself...

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    I'm going to put it out there; US foreign policy on Iran has comprehensively failed at this point

    They tested a new missile recently and I think it's fair to say that Iran feels US credibility in any deal is barely existent.

    Unless there was a nuke in the mix, I'd say our policy regarding Iran is still holding up.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I'm going to put it out there; US foreign policy on Iran has comprehensively failed at this point

    They tested a new missile recently and I think it's fair to say that Iran feels US credibility in any deal is barely existent.

    Unless there was a nuke in the mix, I'd say our policy regarding Iran is still holding up.

    It's also not just U.S. policy at that point.

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    "Dotard" means senile old man. Nice English skills, North Korea.

    To be fair, Un probably has a whole Ministry of Shade dedicted to coming up with comebacks that he can personally deliver to the inmates in the jerks-were-are-mean-to-me prison block.

    So I'm not overly impressed, but I do like an obscure zing.
    Also he did go study abroad so while he's still an evil monster, he is probably fairly proficient at English.

  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Also, non-proliferation is likely dead since a very possible outcome of the NK situation is SK, Japan and even Taiwan deciding that they want some nukes too.

    Don't see Japan, though they will definitely up their breakout capacity if that changes. But South Korea probably.

    Japan's pretty much at optimum breakout capacity without having an active program. They're sitting on piles of potential fuel due to how their nuclear plants work.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Couscous wrote: »
    Iran is still not violating the deal.

    We're going to solve that problem for them by the end of the year.

    As long as the rest of the JPoA holds, Iran isn't going to give a fuck about American sanctions, because they basically can't do business with us anyways. This is about the european markets for them, and the Europeans have made clear that Iran is abiding.

    Edit: Now, Trump moght try to sanction our allies doing business with Iran, but I forsee a Russian sanctions style bill if that happens.

    Fencingsax on
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Gundi wrote: »
    "Dotard" means senile old man. Nice English skills, North Korea.

    To be fair, Un probably has a whole Ministry of Shade dedicted to coming up with comebacks that he can personally deliver to the inmates in the jerks-were-are-mean-to-me prison block.

    So I'm not overly impressed, but I do like an obscure zing.
    Also he did go study abroad so while he's still an evil monster, he is probably fairly proficient at English.

    Unlike the President of the United States.

    Nyysjan on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Iran is still not violating the deal.

    We're going to solve that problem for them by the end of the year.

    As long as the rest of the JPoA holds, Iran isn't going to give a fuck about American sanctions, because they basically can't do business with us anyways. This is about the european markets for them, and the Europeans have made clear that Iran is abiding.

    Edit: Now, Trump moght try to sanction our allies doing business with Iran, but I forsee a Russian sanctions style bill if that happens.

    Yeah, no one really knows wtf Trump is even gonna do to the deal. Just that it'll be bad because fucking with the deal has zero upsides.

    A bigger issue though is that Trump is killing American credibility on these kinds of deals which means doing something about North Korea becomes way way harder because why would the Chinese or the Russians get on board with any kind of North Korean strategy when the US is just completely unreliable.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    BBC are reporting that Trump had several US bombers fly close to North Korea's border to "prove that he has many military options to deal with any threat"

    Desktop Hippie on
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Considering they're directly threatening Guam, flying B2s out from there for a show of force would be somewhat pointed if Trump wasn't just saying "look at all the toys the last dozen presidents left me!".

    Though, no, this kind of thing isn't much different than before. Show of force along the NK border is somewhat normal. They do a show of force, the SK and US military do one back.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Never really understood the whole 'show of force' thing. Everybody knows we have bombers. What does flying them around really do?


    Like, having a carrier group go through the straits of Taiwan to call a bluff at least kind of demonstrates something. Same with war games. But this? Those planes we have aren't just cardboard and duct tape, if you thought that.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Never really understood the whole 'show of force' thing. Everybody knows we have bombers. What does flying them around really do?


    Like, having a carrier group go through the straits of Taiwan to call a bluff at least kind of demonstrates something. Same with war games. But this? Those planes we have aren't just cardboard and duct tape, if you thought that.

    Sometimes they'll have them beeline for something the other side thinks is secret, just to say, "We know where that is, how much else do we know?" If NK overreacts and moves something we didn't know about, were most likely to detect it when they move it than if they leave it alone.

    You can also figure out where their radar is, and judging from response how far out they detect you and from where.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Actually this is the furthest north of the DMZ American bombers have flown in international waters in a long time.

    Which is supposed to signal something but, eh?

    The rest of the story wasn't posted until after my post, and if they're flying B-1s then they're signalling something a whole lot different than if they're flying the B-2s.

    The B-1s were brought to Guam this year as an expeditionary force to supplement the B-2s that are regularly stationed there at Anderson. The B-1s are the workhorse bombers of the air force. They're faster than the B52s and can carry the largest tonnage of the fleet.
    Using B2s means "We're already ready for you", using B-1s means "We're building up our forces to come after you".
    moniker wrote: »
    Never really understood the whole 'show of force' thing. Everybody knows we have bombers. What does flying them around really do?


    Like, having a carrier group go through the straits of Taiwan to call a bluff at least kind of demonstrates something. Same with war games. But this? Those planes we have aren't just cardboard and duct tape, if you thought that.

    In Iraq/Afghanistan they would fly B-1s over an isolated target, slow down, spread the wings, go in for a bombing run, open both bomb bays, close the doors, sweep the wings back and fly off without dropping a bomb. It would sometimes work to convince someone to give up a position without having to send ground pounders out there to do it and without blowing up the position.
    The majority of war isn't killing people, it's convincing them that it's not worth it to continue to fight.

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Iran is still not violating the deal.

    We're going to solve that problem for them by the end of the year.

    I'm betting that someone in the EU is frantically reassuring someone in Iran that the EU's word is still good, and as long as it is the US can just go screw itself. It feels like the sort of message that might resonate with the Iranians.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Meanwhile:

    Withney Hurst is a producer for Al Jazeera English.
    So that's fun.

  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Iran is still not violating the deal.

    We're going to solve that problem for them by the end of the year.

    As long as the rest of the JPoA holds, Iran isn't going to give a fuck about American sanctions, because they basically can't do business with us anyways. This is about the european markets for them, and the Europeans have made clear that Iran is abiding.

    Edit: Now, Trump moght try to sanction our allies doing business with Iran, but I forsee a Russian sanctions style bill if that happens.

    Yeah, no one really knows wtf Trump is even gonna do to the deal. Just that it'll be bad because fucking with the deal has zero upsides.

    A bigger issue though is that Trump is killing American credibility on these kinds of deals which means doing something about North Korea becomes way way harder because why would the Chinese or the Russians get on board with any kind of North Korean strategy when the US is just completely unreliable.

    This is going to be Trump's lasting legacy, I think. We can elect the most statesmany person to the presidency, Obama 2.0, and foreign nations will still not trust us because we may elect a madman in 4 years.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Iran is still not violating the deal.

    We're going to solve that problem for them by the end of the year.

    As long as the rest of the JPoA holds, Iran isn't going to give a fuck about American sanctions, because they basically can't do business with us anyways. This is about the european markets for them, and the Europeans have made clear that Iran is abiding.

    Edit: Now, Trump moght try to sanction our allies doing business with Iran, but I forsee a Russian sanctions style bill if that happens.

    Yeah, no one really knows wtf Trump is even gonna do to the deal. Just that it'll be bad because fucking with the deal has zero upsides.

    A bigger issue though is that Trump is killing American credibility on these kinds of deals which means doing something about North Korea becomes way way harder because why would the Chinese or the Russians get on board with any kind of North Korean strategy when the US is just completely unreliable.

    This is going to be Trump's lasting legacy, I think. We can elect the most statesmany person to the presidency, Obama 2.0, and foreign nations will still not trust us because we may elect a madman in 4 years.

    Obama 2.0 won't even be enough. Obama did a great job of fixing American credibility, but Bush hadn't set out to burn it to the ground, and if we could have deflated his warboner for Iraq the damage might not even have been that serious.

    Trump's INTENTION is to destroy American credibility, and his incompetence in getting that done is only making it worse, not mitigating it.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Well. President Trump shat this out around 11:00PM Eastern.


    Just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at U.N. If he echoes thoughts of Little Rocket Man, they won't be around much longer!

    And neither will millions of innocent people you ignoramous. But don't let that get in the way of your name calling and flippant threats.

    Viskod on
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Actually this is the furthest north of the DMZ American bombers have flown in international waters in a long time.

    Which is supposed to signal something but, eh?

    The rest of the story wasn't posted until after my post, and if they're flying B-1s then they're signalling something a whole lot different than if they're flying the B-2s.

    The B-1s were brought to Guam this year as an expeditionary force to supplement the B-2s that are regularly stationed there at Anderson. The B-1s are the workhorse bombers of the air force. They're faster than the B52s and can carry the largest tonnage of the fleet.
    Using B2s means "We're already ready for you", using B-1s means "We're building up our forces to come after you".

    Does Trump know that, though, or did he just pick B-1s because B-1 sounds cooler than B-2 (second place, low energy, sad!)?

  • ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Well. President Trump shat this out around 11:00PM Eastern.


    Just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at U.N. If he echoes thoughts of Little Rocket Man, they won't be around much longer!

    And neither will millions of innocent people you ignoramous. But don't let that get in the way of your name calling and flippant threats.

    Twitter needs to fucking ban him already. This shit isn't safe.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Hevach wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Iran is still not violating the deal.

    We're going to solve that problem for them by the end of the year.

    As long as the rest of the JPoA holds, Iran isn't going to give a fuck about American sanctions, because they basically can't do business with us anyways. This is about the european markets for them, and the Europeans have made clear that Iran is abiding.

    Edit: Now, Trump moght try to sanction our allies doing business with Iran, but I forsee a Russian sanctions style bill if that happens.

    Yeah, no one really knows wtf Trump is even gonna do to the deal. Just that it'll be bad because fucking with the deal has zero upsides.

    A bigger issue though is that Trump is killing American credibility on these kinds of deals which means doing something about North Korea becomes way way harder because why would the Chinese or the Russians get on board with any kind of North Korean strategy when the US is just completely unreliable.

    This is going to be Trump's lasting legacy, I think. We can elect the most statesmany person to the presidency, Obama 2.0, and foreign nations will still not trust us because we may elect a madman in 4 years.

    Obama 2.0 won't even be enough. Obama did a great job of fixing American credibility, but Bush hadn't set out to burn it to the ground, and if we could have deflated his warboner for Iraq the damage might not even have been that serious.

    Trump's INTENTION is to destroy American credibility, and his incompetence in getting that done is only making it worse, not mitigating it.

    His admin never had a good relationship with the UN, and while it wasn't this severe having John "disband the UN" Bolton as America's UN ambassador was a clear signal of the government's intentions of what they thought of the organization. They may not have deliberately tried to destroy the UN from within like Trump is, but that's not being friendly to the group, either.

    edit: And they were more than happy to gaslight and ignore the UN when they felt like it, as well.

    Harry Dresden on
  • Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    Ardol wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    Well. President Trump shat this out around 11:00PM Eastern.


    Just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at U.N. If he echoes thoughts of Little Rocket Man, they won't be around much longer!

    And neither will millions of innocent people you ignoramous. But don't let that get in the way of your name calling and flippant threats.

    Twitter needs to fucking ban him already. This shit isn't safe.

    That is 100% a threat of violence, which is a bannable offense.

    Any way to force Twitter's hand towards kicking him off the service?

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    There's nothing for it outside of Twitter making the call. It's the right thing to do but, their own role in this whole ordeal aside, I honestly wouldn't blame them for being terrified of the consequences.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    There's nothing for it outside of Twitter making the call. It's the right thing to do but, their own role in this whole ordeal aside, I honestly wouldn't blame them for being terrified of the consequences.

    They're in a tough bind, on the one hand Trump twitter may start wars, or cause international incidents etc - on the other, it's vital evidence concerning Mueller's investigation and making him look like a moron/hypocrite on the internet.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    There's evidence aplenty. They should have banned him some time back. It's even more obvious now that Trump's using it to make death threats with geopolitical consequences. But if/when they do it will be a massive shit storm directed right at them.

  • Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    There's evidence aplenty. They should have banned him some time back. It's even more obvious now that Trump's using it to make death threats with geopolitical consequences. But if/when they do it will be a massive shit storm directed right at them.

    On the plus side, it would force him to actually hold a conference to rant, since he'd lack his precious 140 characters every ten minutes platform.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Twitter are spineless fucks about 99.9% of the hideous abuse, harassment, fake news and so on which happens on their platform

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Which means that Donald Trump can escalate international tensions on twitter if he wants and they won't stop him

    They should, and so should the White House, but they won't

    The whole NK situation is still sabre rattling to me. What happens when NK successfully does a nuke missile test, that's the important moment. Of course at that point, you know, too late isn't it really?

  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Blight on Discourse Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Never really understood the whole 'show of force' thing. Everybody knows we have bombers. What does flying them around really do?


    Like, having a carrier group go through the straits of Taiwan to call a bluff at least kind of demonstrates something. Same with war games. But this? Those planes we have aren't just cardboard and duct tape, if you thought that.

    Sometimes they'll have them beeline for something the other side thinks is secret, just to say, "We know where that is, how much else do we know?" If NK overreacts and moves something we didn't know about, were most likely to detect it when they move it than if they leave it alone.

    You can also figure out where their radar is, and judging from response how far out they detect you and from where.

    No way playing made you flinch with nukes can backfire. Glad I'm moving away from the West Coast. :(

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Which means that Donald Trump can escalate international tensions on twitter if he wants and they won't stop him

    They should, and so should the White House, but they won't

    The whole NK situation is still sabre rattling to me. What happens when NK successfully does a nuke missile test, that's the important moment. Of course at that point, you know, too late isn't it really?

    Can? This is past tense.

  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Iran is still not violating the deal.

    We're going to solve that problem for them by the end of the year.

    As long as the rest of the JPoA holds, Iran isn't going to give a fuck about American sanctions, because they basically can't do business with us anyways. This is about the european markets for them, and the Europeans have made clear that Iran is abiding.

    Edit: Now, Trump moght try to sanction our allies doing business with Iran, but I forsee a Russian sanctions style bill if that happens.

    Yeah, no one really knows wtf Trump is even gonna do to the deal. Just that it'll be bad because fucking with the deal has zero upsides.

    A bigger issue though is that Trump is killing American credibility on these kinds of deals which means doing something about North Korea becomes way way harder because why would the Chinese or the Russians get on board with any kind of North Korean strategy when the US is just completely unreliable.

    This is going to be Trump's lasting legacy, I think. We can elect the most statesmany person to the presidency, Obama 2.0, and foreign nations will still not trust us because we may elect a madman in 4 years.

    Obama 2.0 won't even be enough. Obama did a great job of fixing American credibility, but Bush hadn't set out to burn it to the ground, and if we could have deflated his warboner for Iraq the damage might not even have been that serious.

    Trump's INTENTION is to destroy American credibility, and his incompetence in getting that done is only making it worse, not mitigating it.

    I disagree. Trump doesn't care about foreign policy. He's looking for two things, quite desperately, right now.

    Firstly, he needs a win. Practically everything he's tried to do has gotten shut down and/or gone wrong.
    Secondly, he needs a distraction. As with many previous Republican presidents, a foreign war supplies a good distraction to domestic troubles.

    In Trump's mind, North Korea addresses both of those in a neat little package.

  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    There's evidence aplenty. They should have banned him some time back. It's even more obvious now that Trump's using it to make death threats with geopolitical consequences. But if/when they do it will be a massive shit storm directed right at them.

    How would the world know Trump was mad at twitter, or anything, if he was banned on twitter?

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    There's evidence aplenty. They should have banned him some time back. It's even more obvious now that Trump's using it to make death threats with geopolitical consequences. But if/when they do it will be a massive shit storm directed right at them.

    How would the world know Trump was mad at twitter, or anything, if he was banned on twitter?

    He'll hold a rally.
    "Press conference."

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Which means that Donald Trump can escalate international tensions on twitter if he wants and they won't stop him

    They should, and so should the White House, but they won't

    The whole NK situation is still sabre rattling to me. What happens when NK successfully does a nuke missile test, that's the important moment. Of course at that point, you know, too late isn't it really?

    Can? This is past tense.

    He can, as in, it's a thing he can do (and does do)

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    I'm ok with him holding press conferences. Is he going to hold one every 5 minutes and every weekend morning and rant like a jackass? Sure go for it.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    I'm ok with him holding press conferences. Is he going to hold one every 5 minutes and every weekend morning and rant like a jackass? Sure go for it.

    If the media have to actually go, it'll get old quick for them.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
This discussion has been closed.