The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
The Russian/Trump Investigation: good boys
Elki
get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
This thread is for talking about:
The election interference and collusion investigation, both in the FBI and congress.
The firing of James Comey, and continuing fallout of it.
The search for a new FBI director.
The special counsel, Robert Mueller and his investigation, et all.
Any further claims about wiretapping of Donald Trump.
Things we will not be talking about:
Impeachment, until further notice. So far this includes a lot of speculation with the investigation itself remaining unresolved, so we're leaving it off the table until a notable event happens.
The media.
Official prevention of cross contamination post.
Trump's foreign trip and other foreign policy issues: Foreign Policy Thread
Trump admin/family corruption and grift not related to Russia: Corruption/Grift/Ethics Violations in the Trump Administration
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Trump admin/government's treatment of the press: Freedom of the Press Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread
Reminder: Watergate comparison/discussion is on topic here, but don't get too into the weeds on it.
Two recent stories you might have missed if you weren't keeping up with the thread:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/special-counsel-is-investigating-trump-for-possible-obstruction-of-justice/2017/06/14/9ce02506-5131-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/mueller-trump-special-counsel-investigation.html
The election interference and collusion investigation, both in the FBI and congress.
The firing of James Comey, and continuing fallout of it.
The search for a new FBI director.
The special counsel, Robert Mueller and his investigation, et all.
Any further claims about wiretapping of Donald Trump.
Things we will not be talking about:
Impeachment, until further notice. So far this includes a lot of speculation with the investigation itself remaining unresolved, so we're leaving it off the table until a notable event happens.
The media.
Official prevention of cross contamination post.
Trump's foreign trip and other foreign policy issues: Foreign Policy Thread
Trump admin/family corruption and grift not related to Russia: Corruption/Grift/Ethics Violations in the Trump Administration
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Trump admin/government's treatment of the press: Freedom of the Press Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread
Reminder: Watergate comparison/discussion is on topic here, but don't get too into the weeds on it.
Two recent stories you might have missed if you weren't keeping up with the thread:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/special-counsel-is-investigating-trump-for-possible-obstruction-of-justice/2017/06/14/9ce02506-5131-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/mueller-trump-special-counsel-investigation.html
Elki on
+4
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
Back to the leaks being the real story!
Edit: also just because they're looking into obstruction doesn't mean the Russia investigation is over
"The apparent pivot of the investigation proves they struck out on collusion." Maybe, sure. We've got no way of proving otherwise based on publicly available information at this point. But it also means they're looking at the kind of things that Trump has been taken to court for literally hundreds of times in the past. So he's still pretty fucked.
"The President complained of "leaks" and "innuendo" in the 2016 campaign, here it is happening!" Uh huh. "I sure hope Russia hacks her servers and finds those emails," and "woo wikileaks Podesta emails" sure sounds like someone who hates leakers, right?
"AG Sessions just testified that firing Comey didn't harm the investigation, so there." Fuckin' seriously? Do we really need to even unpack this shit?
As long as the people talking about this on television who aren't straight up Trump shills don't remove their pants while the cameras are rolling, put them over their heads and re-tighten their belts, this stuff is at best a holding action on Trump's shakier-every-day base support. No one who isn't on a steady diet of campaign kool aide is buying this.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
When you mean we aren't talking about impeachment, do you mean discussion into the details into whether or not it will happen, or who would respond to it and how, and general intrigue around such speculation? Or do you mean that "impeachment" is a word from the black speech that shall not be uttered here?
Because a lot of the discussion of the legal ins and outs of the Trump Russian investigation some of the possibilities of various outcomes will have it ultimately come down to impeachment or something will ultimately depend on the Constitutional impeachment power of Congress. Because it makes sense to say that something will ultimately have to be dealt with or ignored on the grounds of impeachment, while it being verboten get real deep in the weeds speculating about if it will happen and how it will go.
This is dangerous conspiracy territory.
Talking points are just plain old propaganda. It's a shame that some people can't form their own opinion.
Let Bartlet be Bartlet.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Just realized something. Trump has zero understanding of Mueller. Trump thought Mueller wanted the job of special prosecutor. Like his goal was power and prestige. He has absolutely no idea how to go about negotiating/manipulating somebody like Mueller.
My Backloggery
Oh my god do they really still think Bleachbit is real bleach?
Said it in the old thread right before it closed...just because an investigation may be phony doesn't mean it's okay to obstruct.
Also, he's not calling the obstruction phony.
It's a bad idea to ask them stop investigating your friend while implying their job is on the line.
It's a bad idea to fire them after they ignore your ask about their friend.
It's a bad idea to threaten the guy who was hired to investigate the first firing with a new firing.
It's bad ideas all the way down.
Of course he has no idea how to interact with Mueller. Nobody like Mueller would have ever voluntarily entered Trump's circle. 100% of his experience with personal interactions is with people ambitious and corrupt to directly associate with them with the idea that they had something to gain out of it.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I bet they predunked those in bleach already
You forgot how it's a bad idea to brag about getting the people investigating you fired. Which they've done at least twice that I can recall.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I had to stop at three because I don't want to be here all day.
Oh my god, this is such stupid rhetorical trickery but I want somebody to do it to them so badly.
"Trump implied their were tapes but now I guess he bleached them!"
Make Trump prove a negative.
Because it's a sure bet.
Why defend yourself when you are either:
Obviously guilty.
Laughably incompetent of effectively defending yourself.
Some combination of both.
When you can simply just tell your base that the other guys are part of some conspiracy or witch hunt from "the left". It doesn't matter that Occam's razor clearly points to shenanigans. The Trump base and hard line GoP will go through incredible feats of gold medal worthy mental gymnastics to ensure that Trump/Gop's message is the sensible truth to them.
That it will create doubt and confusion on what's real in some others is a bonus.
I really do hope there's some SERIOUS bombshells found out in this investigation. But I have a feeling it's just going to confirm a lot of crap people already know about Trump and have very little effect on his standing.
If he were a private citizen it would be incredibly damaging, but as the Pres? This all still comes down on needing enough of the GoP to do the right thing for anything to happen.
And I'm just incredibly cynical about that happening without some hard evidence of some truly destructive things coming to light.
No fucko i live next to a memorial to the victims of the greatest witch hunt in our history. It was in 1692.
There are some nasty possibilities out there, at least. If he's complicit in the use of his properties for money laundering, that stands a good chance of taking him down.
If this is what people are advising Trump to do, I expect him to fire Mueller over Twitter by the end of the week (without realizing he can't actually do that).
To use the words "Tip of the deep state spear" in light of yesterday's events is a new level of something I don't even have the words for. Is inciting violence some kind of illegal?
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
That's a Republican senator actively pushing back against at least one part of the White House framing. In a public venue that at least used to be directly monitored by POTUS.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
"Yes, we will take all intelligence assets. Come to Russia, enjoy relaxing bath, speak to self about intelligence job into mirror in your room."
2nd greatest would probably be the McCarthy Red Scare era.
He keeps wanting to make sure everyone believes there's been no proof found for a story that is supposedly a complete fabrication.
Why even pick nits like that? An investigation of collision with a foreign power will take months, hell it could take years. It's not Mueller hasn't found anything, it's that he's barely started. The obstruction investigation is just part of the broad powers Congress and DOJ gave him. It doesn't mean the other investigation is over.
This is just more smoke and mirrors to rile up his base and certainly it works for them. And yet his disapproval numbers continue to climb.
Imply that Trump not having tapes means he destroyed them, which would be illegal.
Which leads to Trump actually making tapes in the future, and of course bragging about making them, which leads to the tapes being subpoenaed.
I felt that way right after the election.
And now I feel that way again for different reasons, but the feeling is roughly the same.
Is this how it felt for people living through all the Nixon revelations?
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I do increasingly understand the general acceptance of pardoning Nixon by the general public (Ford backlash notwithstanding). This is exhausting. Going back to normal would be a huge victory.
I'm not ready to settle for that at all, but I can see how a lot of people would be.
I'm pretty sure that's about the best possible scenario. Rich guys like Trump don't go to jail. He has enough money to draw out proceedings for the rest of his natural life, at worst for him.
Yeah, the investigation into collusion didn't end. It expanded.
Because he either dictated those disjointed, repetitive, and highly misleading talking points, or believes them.
Given the typos, I'm super curious to know if his lawyer wrote them.
I'm still convinced that within Trump's inner circle Bannon, Kushner, and an undisclosed third party are still devouring each other in order to continue having the President's ear. With the exception of maybe Steve Bannon, the rest of his inner circle are contaminated with collusion, and the slow leaks are these individual's way of putting the other groups down for a week before those groups leak to reclaim their spot on the throne next to Trumps.