[Xenoblade Chronicles] Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition coming to Switch in 2020

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    Madpoet wrote: »
    I bounced off of ACNH hard and needed a replacement, so I picked up the definitive edition. Really enjoying this so far! The setting is bizarre, but story and characters are fun and combat is deep enough to be interesting. Just peeking in here to see what the game is about has let me know there is some weirdness coming up, so I'm going to stay out until I'm done, but good to have something to make a positive post about!

    Glad to hear it. I think you'll like it. Xenoblade Chronicles is my second favorite RPG ever, right behind Chrono Trigger. Post here as you go through it. I'd love to hear what you think.

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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    So just starting this (putzing around doing all the Colony 9 quests). Is there any way you can screw up a character in terms of skill/arts growths, or can you just basically grind forever if you really had to if you for some reason didn't level up a critical skill/art?

    They really just throw everything and the kitchen sink at you to start in terms of stuff and skills it feels like, and then there's things popping off they don't even mention yet (affinity coins which I seem to get on level ups that don't even have a tutorial or menu for yet).

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Naphtali wrote: »
    So just starting this (putzing around doing all the Colony 9 quests). Is there any way you can screw up a character in terms of skill/arts growths, or can you just basically grind forever if you really had to if you for some reason didn't level up a critical skill/art?

    They really just throw everything and the kitchen sink at you to start in terms of stuff and skills it feels like, and then there's things popping off they don't even mention yet (affinity coins which I seem to get on level ups that don't even have a tutorial or menu for yet).

    You can grind out all your arts and skills.

    Affinity coins are used to link skills from other party members - each skill has a cost and your affinity coins serve as the maximum cost you can have linked at once.

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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Ugh why did I start the Ursula quest now. I'm too deep to stop.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Ok wait, so I want to keep Sharla and Riki at low affinity for the purposes of ether cylinder crafting? Is that right?

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Ok wait, so I want to keep Sharla and Riki at low affinity for the purposes of ether cylinder crafting? Is that right?

    No. The higher affinity between the characters, the more turns you get, which will translate into better results. And characters with high affinity for the characters doing the craft can add in extra bonuses during the process.

    What gave you the impression that you wanted low affinity?

    Enlong on
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Ok wait, so I want to keep Sharla and Riki at low affinity for the purposes of ether cylinder crafting? Is that right?

    No. The higher affinity between the characters, the more turns you get, which will translate into better results. And characters with high affinity for the characters doing the craft can add in extra bonuses during the process.

    What gave you the impression that you wanted low affinity?

    I believe this specific setup is to try and force 80%+ canisters without ever finishing a gem, because you then mix two of those and easily overheat to a tier VI gem.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Ok wait, so I want to keep Sharla and Riki at low affinity for the purposes of ether cylinder crafting? Is that right?

    No. The higher affinity between the characters, the more turns you get, which will translate into better results. And characters with high affinity for the characters doing the craft can add in extra bonuses during the process.

    What gave you the impression that you wanted low affinity?

    From what I understand, Sharla and Riki together make for a good pair for creating ether cylinders (not gems). Basically for stripping off undesired extra effects and making cylinders with one single effect.

    I just wanted to confirm with people here who might know more about it, but I think the idea is that if they have lower turns, the better chance they can end up with the cylinder just under 100%. If it goes over, it becomes a gem and you can't use it for crafting better gems then.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Ugh why did I start the Ursula quest now. I'm too deep to stop.

    I got Ursula early and spent most of the game on it, and ended up being nowhere near done. It's actively preventing me from either continuing to play (since I'd spend half my time spamming the quest instead of actually doing things) or starting a new game (since there's no way I'm redoing all of that from scratch again).

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Ok wait, so I want to keep Sharla and Riki at low affinity for the purposes of ether cylinder crafting? Is that right?

    No. The higher affinity between the characters, the more turns you get, which will translate into better results. And characters with high affinity for the characters doing the craft can add in extra bonuses during the process.

    What gave you the impression that you wanted low affinity?

    From what I understand, Sharla and Riki together make for a good pair for creating ether cylinders (not gems). Basically for stripping off undesired extra effects and making cylinders with one single effect.

    I just wanted to confirm with people here who might know more about it, but I think the idea is that if they have lower turns, the better chance they can end up with the cylinder just under 100%. If it goes over, it becomes a gem and you can't use it for crafting better gems then.

    You don't need to, but it helps. You'll notice that when you craft, anything that doesn't hit 100% turns into a cylinder. The general idea for high level gem crafting is that you want two cylinders in the range of 70-99, then mix them together with Shulk/Reyn to easily get 300%, where it'll upgrade in rank and make two gems. The problem with high affinity and more turns is that this is more chances for that effect to hit 100%. A classic case of "Stop helping me damnit!!!".

    Again, you don't need them at low affinity. Sharla gives a bonus to gentle flames, Riki specializes in gentle flames, and gentle flames raise the cylinder gauge instead of increasing the overall gem percentage. If they're both maxed out in affinity, then if you start with a percentage of around 50%, it most likely won't go over 100%. Lower affinity, you can start higher. And any cylinder at 70% or higher is good enough. Just save before you do it. Because... yeah, "Stop helping me damnit!!!".

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Higher affinity just saves time because you can pile on the gems and the gauge will get pretty high so you can make lots of cylinders at once.

  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I'll just add having cleared all content recently. I used a bunch of Agility V gems from the Challenge Mode for most of the fights with no issue at all. I'd rather just clear those fights than hope to get something out of an Ether Mine. Night Vision, Critical Up and Spike Defense are dropped from super bosses directly so I just got enough to get Heat with Shulk and Reyn. I mean, for super broken builds with Double Attack VI, I guess going the Cylinder route helps but imho you really don't need to go out of your way for them. Oh, and Haste VI you'll want from Glory Gauntlets either way instead of on your weapon so don't go out of your way for that one.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    The level 12 versions of a lot of arts make it so easy to do ridiculous damage. In some cases its the extra damage they do, but in a lot of cases its the reduced cooldowns.

  • navgoosenavgoose Registered User regular
    Learning how to mega heat and crack gems is a valuable skill. That extra gem helps alot on the rarer stuff and things like debuff resist 100% in one gem are awesome.

    You can do it fairly early in the game with effort (but it is tedious) compared to late game where Shulk and Reyn and mega heat even mediocre cylinders.

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I will add that getting to 300% and getting the two gems is nice, but it's also just a nice bonus that saves you time. Getting to 200% is much more important, and also easier to do overall.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Having recently played some of the older Phantasy Star games, this game gives me a vague sense of similarity to some of the themes and the general style, especially later on. Like if Xenoblade had just been called Phantasy Star Gaiden and added some easter eggs referencing other games, I don't think too many people would object.

    On an unrelated note, I've been using checklists to keep track of what I have and haven't done, and just now having spoken to Bozatrox, I have now talked with every named NPC in the game except for a guy named Dulland who only shows up later mid-questline of some sort. Crazy to look at the affinity chart with all the characters.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    I really wish they would have trimmed out a lot of the nonsense sidequests because there are a lot of good quests in each area that have multiple outcomes and significantly change relationships between people. Some aren't even available unless you take the time to talk to everyone and find out what's going on in the community or catch someone at the start of or the end of their day.

    But all of these get lost in the shuffle of KILL THIS AND FIND THIS.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Speaking of, I think I'm a bit lost for where I should go?
    Late-game spoilers:
    I've had the hour of various people shouting "Brother!", and Mechonis is gone and Shulk was dead all along, Dickson finally stabbed me in the back like I've been expecting since he started talking like someone who was going to stab me in the back in Satorl Marsh, etc.
    Now I'm back at Colony 6, and all the new quests I'm picking up are telling me to go fight enemies in their 80/90s, and I'm at 75. Where can I go to kill things at close to my level?

    Taking Junks and flying inside the Bionis sounds like a final dungeon thing, do I want to avoid that, or is that my next grinding spot?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • navgoosenavgoose Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Speaking of, I think I'm a bit lost for where I should go?
    Late-game spoilers:
    I've had the hour of various people shouting "Brother!", and Mechonis is gone and Shulk was dead all along, Dickson finally stabbed me in the back like I've been expecting since he started talking like someone who was going to stab me in the back in Satorl Marsh, etc.
    Now I'm back at Colony 6, and all the new quests I'm picking up are telling me to go fight enemies in their 80/90s, and I'm at 75. Where can I go to kill things at close to my level?

    Taking Junks and flying inside the Bionis sounds like a final dungeon thing, do I want to avoid that, or is that my next grinding spot?

    You are perfectly fine doing the thing in spoilers.

    There is a stereotypical
    point of no return
    later on and the game is very obvious about it with very clear language.

  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    klemming wrote: »
    Late-game spoilers:
    Dickson finally stabbed me in the back like I've been expecting since he started talking like someone who was going to stab me in the back in Satorl Marsh, etc.

    Speaking of this specific spoiler:
    I wish they didn't feel the need to telegraph this, among other things. There is only one line in the game that indicates this, it's "sure feels bad, deceiving these kids..." "What did you say?" "Oh it's nothing..." Leave that one line out and you could still say that signs are there, but it'd be more of a surprise.

    At the point I'm at, there was just a moment where he said "I'm counting on you, Shulk..." Without the context of the other ominous line, this would be perfect to look back on in hindsight or in a second playthrough and reinterpret. But being able to guess in advance, it's just ominous on its own and loses that element.

    UncleSporky on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Late-game spoilers:
    Dickson finally stabbed me in the back like I've been expecting since he started talking like someone who was going to stab me in the back in Satorl Marsh, etc.

    Speaking of this specific spoiler:
    I wish they didn't feel the need to telegraph this, among other things. There is only one line in the game that indicates this, it's "sure feels bad, deceiving these kids..." "What did you say?" "Oh it's nothing..." Leave that one line out and you could still say that signs are there, but it'd be more of a surprise.

    At the point I'm at, there was just a moment where he said "I'm counting on you, Shulk..." Without the context of the other ominous line, this would be perfect to look back on in hindsight or in a second playthrough and reinterpret. But being able to guess in advance, it's just ominous on its own and loses that element.
    Hard disagree on that. The marsh is the first obvious point, but all three of them have their moments of 'ah, our master plan is proceeding'. Nope of them being bad guys surprised me, although I'm leaving room for Alvis to turn out to maybe not be a complete dick?

    Also, I just confronted a Nopon crimeboss. Best music for that fight, and I think he's the guy I got a monster egg for him to train, so this is really a boss of my own making.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    I really wish they would have trimmed out a lot of the nonsense sidequests because there are a lot of good quests in each area that have multiple outcomes and significantly change relationships between people. Some aren't even available unless you take the time to talk to everyone and find out what's going on in the community or catch someone at the start of or the end of their day.

    But all of these get lost in the shuffle of KILL THIS AND FIND THIS.

    Eh, I'm ok with those earlier, interchangeable quests. They're a decent excuse to go to the various areas of a given map early on, when you're still doing some main story. Then the more unique quests you do after you've familiarized yourself a bit with the area.

  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Enlong wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    I really wish they would have trimmed out a lot of the nonsense sidequests because there are a lot of good quests in each area that have multiple outcomes and significantly change relationships between people. Some aren't even available unless you take the time to talk to everyone and find out what's going on in the community or catch someone at the start of or the end of their day.

    But all of these get lost in the shuffle of KILL THIS AND FIND THIS.

    Eh, I'm ok with those earlier, interchangeable quests. They're a decent excuse to go to the various areas of a given map early on, when you're still doing some main story. Then the more unique quests you do after you've familiarized yourself a bit with the area.

    Also, there's a decent chunk of the fanbase that loves doing all of the quests. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, but I appreciate where they're coming from and am totally cool with them having their crazy completionist dream. Having the extra "fat" of the more grindy sidequests does not detract from my experience at all, and lets them experience the game in the way they want to as well. If the main story required you to grind a ton in the absence of doing sidequests it would be pretty lame, but it doesn't.

    Fiatil on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So someone said you can buy some materials with Noponstone? Does that only open up at the end of the game or am I missing something?
    I can get armor and gems, but I'm not seeing any materials options.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    I really wish they would have trimmed out a lot of the nonsense sidequests because there are a lot of good quests in each area that have multiple outcomes and significantly change relationships between people. Some aren't even available unless you take the time to talk to everyone and find out what's going on in the community or catch someone at the start of or the end of their day.

    But all of these get lost in the shuffle of KILL THIS AND FIND THIS.

    Eh, I'm ok with those earlier, interchangeable quests. They're a decent excuse to go to the various areas of a given map early on, when you're still doing some main story. Then the more unique quests you do after you've familiarized yourself a bit with the area.

    Also, there's a decent chunk of the fanbase that loves doing all of the quests. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, but I appreciate where they're coming from and am totally cool with them having their crazy completionist dream. Having the extra "fat" of the more grindy sidequests does not detract from my experience at all, and lets them experience the game in the way they want to as well. If the main story required you to grind a ton in the absence of doing sidequests it would be pretty lame, but it doesn't.

    Granted, doing no sidequests will tend to result in needing a bit of grind; I had a hell of a time in Sword Valley the first time I played the game. But I guess that's what those throwaway quests are for; you'll be fighting those monsters on your way to the next story beat as a matter of course, so accepting those quests when you first enter a new area will be a bonus chunk of EXP later.

  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Late-game spoilers:
    Dickson finally stabbed me in the back like I've been expecting since he started talking like someone who was going to stab me in the back in Satorl Marsh, etc.

    Speaking of this specific spoiler:
    I wish they didn't feel the need to telegraph this, among other things. There is only one line in the game that indicates this, it's "sure feels bad, deceiving these kids..." "What did you say?" "Oh it's nothing..." Leave that one line out and you could still say that signs are there, but it'd be more of a surprise.

    At the point I'm at, there was just a moment where he said "I'm counting on you, Shulk..." Without the context of the other ominous line, this would be perfect to look back on in hindsight or in a second playthrough and reinterpret. But being able to guess in advance, it's just ominous on its own and loses that element.
    Hard disagree on that. The marsh is the first obvious point, but all three of them have their moments of 'ah, our master plan is proceeding'. Nope of them being bad guys surprised me, although I'm leaving room for Alvis to turn out to maybe not be a complete dick?

    Also, I just confronted a Nopon crimeboss. Best music for that fight, and I think he's the guy I got a monster egg for him to train, so this is really a boss of my own making.
    I played the game with the thought in the back of my head that he eventually stabs you in the back, and that was the only time that he says or does anything questionable. The whole rest of the game he's showing up randomly to help you, to craft Dunban an anti-mechon sword, to give you some supplies for Sword Valley, etc.

    What moments are you thinking of where he was doing ominous foreshadowing?

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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Man how can I word this.. XB2 is a better game than XB1 mechanically but.. I think XB1 is just better overall due to having less mechanics. I hope that for XB3 or X2 they trim down things a bit.

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  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Man how can I word this.. XB2 is a better game than XB1 mechanically but.. I think XB1 is just better overall due to having less mechanics. I hope that for XB3 or X2 they trim down things a bit.

    I absolutely get what you're saying. It's something I've had trouble with in basically every Xenoblade game... character growth happens on seven or eight different axes, and no individual step feels that significant, but in aggregate they all have a tangible effect. In Xenoblade 1, for instance, you have equipment stats, gem assignments, skills (affected by how many and which sidequests you choose to do), party affinity, and skill links. They're all comparatively minor, but if you neglect them all it feels terrible. And then XCX and XC2 go even further with that sort of multidirectional expansion.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    I think I like the story and characters of XB2 more. Every character is much more significant, well-rounded, and have more back story that gets slowly revealed as you go. XB1 is pretty much a story about a sword.

    Again, this doesn't mean I don't love XB1. But revisiting it I'm noticing the lack of character development.

    Xenoblade X was even worse on that front though. :P
    Kupi wrote: »
    Man how can I word this.. XB2 is a better game than XB1 mechanically but.. I think XB1 is just better overall due to having less mechanics. I hope that for XB3 or X2 they trim down things a bit.

    I absolutely get what you're saying. It's something I've had trouble with in basically every Xenoblade game... character growth happens on seven or eight different axes, and no individual step feels that significant, but in aggregate they all have a tangible effect. In Xenoblade 1, for instance, you have equipment stats, gem assignments, skills (affected by how many and which sidequests you choose to do), party affinity, and skill links. They're all comparatively minor, but if you neglect them all it feels terrible. And then XCX and XC2 go even further with that sort of multidirectional expansion.

    And at the same time, some of those dimensions of growth can be more safely ignored than others. Like everyone says that weapons and armor with more slots are always better over fewer slots, due to how much of an impact gems have. The minor amount of defense and ether defense fluctuation really doesn't matter, as long as you dig through your inventory to update once every 5-10 hours.

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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I think it's that Agi is such a strong Stat that investing in anything else feels bad.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think XC2 definitely has more character growth. XC1 has a good story, but the characters do remain somewhat static.

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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    I think it's that Agi is such a strong Stat that investing in anything else feels bad.

    Is there an explanation of stats anywhere? There doesn't seem to be a tutorial covering them as far as Gaur Plain.

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  • Road BlockRoad Block Registered User regular
    It took some Skilling up but Dunban is officially a beast. The shenanigans he can pull of with crit healing, Heat Haze and Soaring Tempest make him a offensive nightmare who is really hard to take down. Also being able to pull away enemies that lock onto my squishier teammates then dump the agro with Heat Haze onto Riki makes for an engaging balancing act.

    But what's going to be really nuts is Skill linking crit heals to Seven. Things are gonna die.

  • navgoosenavgoose Registered User regular
    Road Block wrote: »
    It took some Skilling up but Dunban is officially a beast. The shenanigans he can pull of with crit healing, Heat Haze and Soaring Tempest make him a offensive nightmare who is really hard to take down. Also being able to pull away enemies that lock onto my squishier teammates then dump the agro with Heat Haze onto Riki makes for an engaging balancing act.

    But what's going to be really nuts is Skill linking crit heals to Seven. Things are gonna die.

    Then you skill link her double attack = auto crit skill back to herohom.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Naphtali wrote: »
    I think it's that Agi is such a strong Stat that investing in anything else feels bad.

    Is there an explanation of stats anywhere? There doesn't seem to be a tutorial covering them as far as Gaur Plain.

    Agi is accuracy/evasion and is pretty much 1=1% iirc. The rest are pretty self explanatory, strength is +1 min/max damage, ether is +1 ether damage, all arts are just % multipliers I think from stats/weapon?

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  • navgoosenavgoose Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Naphtali wrote: »
    I think it's that Agi is such a strong Stat that investing in anything else feels bad.

    Is there an explanation of stats anywhere? There doesn't seem to be a tutorial covering them as far as Gaur Plain.

    Agi is accuracy/evasion and is pretty much 1=1% iirc. The rest are pretty self explanatory, strength is +1 min/max damage, ether is +1 ether damage, all arts are just % multipliers I think from stats/weapon?

    Also tension!

    High tension will increase crit, and some damage effects/party gauge boosts.

    Low drops your agility and crit a lot!

    navgoose on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Wow, apparently I missed out on an incredibly obscure and easily-missed easter egg item. But it does nothing so it's no big deal. :P

    UncleSporky on
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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    I've been kind of walking on eggshells in this game recently, worried I'd miss something. I'm at the last of a series of major cutoffs/points of no return. I think I've done everything. I nearly missed a quest called History of the Capital which I noticed on a whim when I happened to be at the right place at the right time.

    It'll be nice to not have to think about that soon here and just be able to go around hunting bosses, heart-to-hearts, remaining quests etc.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    I've been kind of walking on eggshells in this game recently, worried I'd miss something. I'm at the last of a series of major cutoffs/points of no return. I think I've done everything. I nearly missed a quest called History of the Capital which I noticed on a whim when I happened to be at the right place at the right time.

    It'll be nice to not have to think about that soon here and just be able to go around hunting bosses, heart-to-hearts, remaining quests etc.

    Yeah, I'm in the last zone before the big cutoff/endgame areas opening. Need to go back to check some certain locations to be sure they're done - I don't currently have any expiring quests but I may have missed one or two.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Ok, wait, what?

    I just did the events at the last big cutoff point for stuff. Pretty late in the game. Yes it was awesome and brings a lot of stuff together.

    However I have a really minor...complaint? Thing I noticed, equipment-wise? I've searched online and I can't find any mention of it anywhere.
    Prior to the battle (I just loaded my save) Fiora has 3 slot Jack Daggers equipped with Double Attack 5, Double Attack 4, and Attack Stability 5.

    After the battle, Fiora now has 2 slot Jack Daggers with nothing in the slots.

    It looks like I retained the gems. So I guess that's good.

    Is this just because of the stuff with Meyneth and her weapons? The game randomly decided to have some verisimilitude that Fiora actually lost her weapons due to what happened? ...Why?

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