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Women's advice needed - how to deal with chatty men at the gym
hanbybambi
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I've recently moved to a new area and have been going to a 24 hour gym for about a month (memberships are required). A gentlemen there approached me a few weeks back, complimenting me on my workout outfit. He continued to explain he has autism and is "an empty soul". I remained polite, introduced myself and then continued with my workout. Now, I've discovered that this man is at the gym A LOT. I've ran into him on the weekends and in the early mornings. Every time I see him I say hello. Every time, he continues to comment on my attire and sometimes on my physique - "you look like a warrior", "you're looking ripped", etc. I never know what to do except say thank you and continue on my way. I want to be polite and I hate confrontation. Today, he progressed to a hug (which I didn't know how to deny) and said "we are good friends now." He's asked that we hang out outside the gym. I explained I have plans this weekend and then I threw it out there that I have a boyfriend (which I do, but he doesn't live in my town so he does not accompany me to the gym) and he responded that "I could see that you are complete and content - as long as he doesn't hurt you though". Then he went on about how his family wasn't there for him and he found family in gangs, ran away from home and now he is homeless... I don't know what to make of all this. He also added "let's just say you have a secret admirer" - to which I responded, "then it's not really a secret, is it?"
I've seen him speaking with other women now and then and I've only seen him exercising once. I'm certain he is doing all this intentionally - speaking only to women, complimenting them, adding remarks about his disability and his hard life, making them feel obligated to be polite, etc. All I want is to go to the gym and be ignored. Don't talk to me, don't interrupt my workout and don't make me uncomfortable. How do I say "we are acquaintances and that's all we are going to be" while being polite? Like I said, I hate confrontation and I hate feeling uncomfortable. I don't want to be insensitive, but I also don't owe this guy anything. I'm really interested in what other women out there have to say about this. I know the easy answer is to change my routine times or change gyms. But I'm really tired of running away from these awkward situations and I need to learn how to deal with it. I've spoken with gym personnel - they recommend I file an "anonymous report" about the "incident".
I've seen him speaking with other women now and then and I've only seen him exercising once. I'm certain he is doing all this intentionally - speaking only to women, complimenting them, adding remarks about his disability and his hard life, making them feel obligated to be polite, etc. All I want is to go to the gym and be ignored. Don't talk to me, don't interrupt my workout and don't make me uncomfortable. How do I say "we are acquaintances and that's all we are going to be" while being polite? Like I said, I hate confrontation and I hate feeling uncomfortable. I don't want to be insensitive, but I also don't owe this guy anything. I'm really interested in what other women out there have to say about this. I know the easy answer is to change my routine times or change gyms. But I'm really tired of running away from these awkward situations and I need to learn how to deal with it. I've spoken with gym personnel - they recommend I file an "anonymous report" about the "incident".
hanbybambi on
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Making the staff aware should help protect you if he doesn't take it too well.
Being on record with the gym ahead of that conversation would probably be wise.
Do you have a friend/family member/etc that can accompany you, at least for one visit? Having some direct support can be very helpful not only to you but it sends a very clear visual signal to the person doing this that you're not alone and therefore less of a 'target', for lack of a better word. They don't even have to participate really, just standing there and maintaining a presence can have a big effect.
Filing a report either way is a very good idea, you definitely want some sort of written record in case things escalate.
I do think it's very unlikely that they could get him to change this behaviour, but if they're know what they're doing, they're going to realize that there's no chance this person is making only you uncomfortable, and this one person wouldn't be worth the amount of people he'd drive away or the reputation he'd establish for that gym.
And then I'd push for him to get banned from the gym.
I suspect that the gym wouldn't want to do that without giving him a caution and a warning (if that hasn't happened already). Frankly, in your shoes, I wouldn't be comfortable with him being around at all, and would probably switch gyms if that was their position. I'm always super on edge about potential gym violence though, and wouldn't want to speak to him directly about the situation (that mention about being in gangs...)
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In future, when oddballs ask you awkward questions in public, don't engage. Whatever you give them will encourage them, because they don't understand normal social boundaries. Say something noncommittal and don't make eye contact. When you first met the guy, after his weird rant about being an "empty soul" the appropriate thing would have been to say something like "I need to get back to my workout now" (insert headphones) and blank him when he tries to engage again - not introduce yourself in a friendly fashion!
What you want is a gym with a fee. Doesn't have to be big. There are plenty of $20 a month gyms. Since you are a paying customer, the staff tend to care more about dealing with issues than free places, and to be quite callous, homeless people can't afford them.
But do file that report. He's going to keep doing this unless they get enough complaints to ban him.
If he is hanging out at the gym and not working out that could be a problem in itself. I know some gyms in my town have community outreach programs, so be aware that if that is the reason hes there, the process of getting the employess to intervine might be more difficult. If he poses any sort of physical threat (which I would say an un solicites hug is the start of escalating), make the staff aware of that from your first report. Dont downplay the severity of the situation, or the employees might be happy to not deal with it.
I think its important to note, that you arent even obligated to be polite or say hi to this guy. Its a difficult reflex to turn off, but his inability to read social queues is going to mean you need a clean break. If he responds poorly to what you say, report that too, immediately. If at any point he approaches you outside the gym, immediately walk back into the gym and call the cops.
Hes possibly at a disadvantage that is totally outside of his control, which really really sucks. At the same time, it doesnt change your right to feel safe and go to the gym undisturbed.
Ive been harassed by a different people who at varied levels used those sort of small, but escalating behaviors to try and manipulate me. A guy in my old apartment complex tried to corner me in the elevator and blamed a language issue/ missunder standing after I pushed him off of me in an "unsolicited hug". I reported it immediately, dont feel bad for doing the same.
If its a membership gym, complain to the manager. Sounds like this oddball is driving off a lot of women customers. Don't let lazy workers dismiss your concerns. This isn't a moment for slipping a piece of paper in the complaints box - that's for things like "Why are there never any towels in the showers?" not genuine safety concerns.
I hate to say this, but having had to report escalations quite a few times myself, chances are the first question they're going to ask you is if you've tried telling him that it makes you uncomfortable. It sucks, but it's likely. If you say no, the whole conversation becomes more difficult and awkward. Vocalizing it to him somehow, even gently, will likely convince the person you speak with to take it more seriously.
If you get someone who says anything at all about these actions and women's attire, run from that gym forever because possibly-autistic-guy is the least of your worries.
Again, this is from experience. You shouldn't have to take the risk by saying anything to him before you make someone else aware of the situation and it's awful that you probably do, but it will make it much, much more likely that you'll get followup.
"Who can I email or speak to on the phone who will take this seriously."
"I dont feel this individual is stable or coherent enough to talk to alone, and I dont want interact any further. You need to understand that you are asking me to put myself at risk. I need to file some sort of report"
Dont walk it back. Start in writing if its easier.
If he's correct about his diagnosis, he has some sort of high-functioning autism, which means that any subtlety is absolutely lost on him. Autistic people have extreme difficulty in picking up on subtle social cues that would be "clear signs" to the average person. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that he will take plain language like "Please go away, I'm not interested, please stop bothering me" well either, because he seems unbalanced in some other way on top of the autism. Normally autistic people welcome plain language, so they know where they stand, but he sounds like he has a screw loose somewhere.
I don't know how well it would work in this situation, with CelestialBadger's take on things, but as a general indicator, I used to work out in a gym with a someone who would wear headphones and a shirt that said "I'm not here to talk."
It sucks that you have to put up fences instead of people respecting your space, but if fences are needed, this was a pretty good one.
If the manager does not take your complaint seriously and seek to address it, I would hope that you'd have other gym options, one of which would provide a better atmosphere for you to comfortably work out in.
My advice may not be useful since I haven't experienced this directly and don't know your options.
But that's from a guy's perspective. Good luck, I hope you'll let us know if you're able to resolve it somehow.
I will file a complaint as well. I'm sure it will have a somewhat insignificant effect... but maybe personnel can help discourage the behavior or maybe other complaints have been filed. I'm sure they must keep an eye on someone who is at the gym for hours but never works out... right? Or do they turn a blind eye to someone who may be disabled?
If he has an impairment or is on the spectrum then it's in your best interest to be direct and give an opportunity for him to change his behavior. Being polite or subtle isn't a style of communication that is doing him any favors, because he either doesn't process your cues as indicative of you wanting to be left alone or doesn't care that it's making you uncomfortable.
"You seem nice, but I come here to exercise and try to wind down from my day. I don't want to be rude, but I don't have time to talk and being hugged makes me uncomfortable. "
If that doesn't work, escalate to management at the gym for not providing a safe environment that you can work out in and be prepared to demand a refund.
I'm going to allow that he is actually a high functioning autistic, and suggest that the next time he moves within hug range, you place one hand in front of you, palm out, and say "Look, I'm not a hugger. I don't want a hug." Preface it with "I don't mean to be rude, but," if you must. He may even appreciate that you're being clear! (Probably not, but he needs to stop smooshing his body on strangers, so fuck him)
Homeless people commonly use gyms to have a place to shower and chill out in a climate controlled space. They may not mind it if they dont perceive it to be bothering other people. It's a life hack for people who have a little money, but not enough for rent, or living out of a car.
I'd caution.. not to take his illness too much into account here. The report is less about the gym people doing something initially, and more about you having a back up if he does escalate. You're trying to protect yourself with a bit of preemptive concern. Think of it as a smoke test, would the staff be concerned and helpful if you start to feel unsafe at a higher level? If they respond nonchalantly to this, I would probably ask to terminate my membership.
You maybe past the point where he will accept the basic ignoring him sort of response. It works better when you dont engage from the onset, unfortunately. That means to disengage some sort of poor interaction is probably going to occur.
What leaps out to me:
- Despite the fact that he's saying outright that he's socially awkward, all of his comments so far are pretty explicitly about your body or being romantically/sexually interested. He may think not being vulgar it is more polite, it's not. You dont have to deal with it. If he were just truly being nice to you, it would not have this element to it. He might not be able to tell the difference, but that's still not really your problem.
- Seriously, unsolicited hugs are not super easy to initiate, and he's pretty much just a stranger at the gym. It shows a willingness to bridge into making physical contact with you. Thats a big red flag for me.
- He asked to extend this outside of the gym, and he was sure to mention that he used to be in gangs.
I used to live in a city where not being careful about these things could be dangerous. I had friends who worked with the homeless, and it took time, energy, and expertise to navigate the risks associated with those kinds of behaviors and illness combined. At some point early on I realized that my empathy was not going to do magic, and being constantly scared or in danger helped no one.
I'm just reiterating this because, its going to be a lot easier for the dudes in this thread who wouldn't need to be actually afraid in this situation to say "Well, talk to him first!". I've been in the situation where I "say something plain first" and the dude plainly also starts following me to my car (thanks baltimore). Do not feel like you have to confront him without someone else being aware there is an issue. His position on the spectrum does not mitigate this risk to the point where you have to feel like a bad person for just reporting him.
Talk to management, let them know you're not comfortable and you'll be finding another gym and ask for a pro-rated refund of any dues. Even if you or the facility change his behavior or have him removed, he's homeless and will still be around. If he's unstable he's already demonstrated a lack of respect for boundaries.
Maybe I'm being too cautious but if this were a laundromat or swimming pool or basically anywhere else it would be still be creepy guy rapey vibe to me. It's probably not a fair reading of the situation, but if you feel unsafe or uncomfortable act accordingly and remove yourself.
Edit: I've known some people on the spectrum and I've never seen them decide to just hug people like that. I'm sure it happens but in my experience it's always been avoidance of contact and such. Not that he does not have something going on, but that feels off.
If you see him again after you complain, find a new gym.
Well, that's the thing. There often are people like that in all those other places. If you stop going to them just because you see a creepy dude then sooner or later you'll find yourself with very few whitelisted places. I've run into a lot of people who are.. not shy, I guess. That's where I'm coming from. I couldn't tell you how many people think nothing of walking over and putting their arm around a complete stranger. Maybe it's just because I'm short. :P
if he approaches you be unequivocal: "I'm here for the workout, leave me alone" or similar. You aren't acquaintances, this is a person you'd prefer not to talk to. You don't need to be mean to the guy but you don't need to accommodate his BS either. If he continues to talk to you after that you'll have an even stronger argument that the facility should intervene on your behalf.
if it helps you get over the awkwardness hump, remember that this guy is probably giving lots of other people an unpleasant experience too. You can be the everyday hero who gets it dealt with.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
This has never, ever happened to me as a short woman who goes to gyms. It is *not* normal. It's OK to change gyms if you are being stalked.
The OP needs to be more assertive in her next gym. Shut down all pleasantries as soon as someone starts giving an odd vibe - no guilt.
You can turn someone down/enforce your boundaries/brush someone off in ways that are still more or less friendly and polite. If someone comes up to you while you're in the middle of something you can still smile and acknowledge them, and then say "I'm focusing on my workout. I don't want to talk," or something of that nature. If someone comes up to you while you're on your way to something or in between doing things, you can just say "hey, I have to get going/back to it" and then move on. No interaction that involves turning someone away is going to feel completely polite, because politeness is constructed as being appropriately deferential, and when you turn someone away you are not being deferential. You will probably agree, though, that as long as you're pleasant about it, you can politely tell someone to leave you alone. They are not entitled to your time and attention, as you've correctly pointed out. If you turn someone away politely and they persist in trying to get your attention, proceed immediately to the nearest employee, and tell them that you're being harassed.
Just a loud "no," arms out. Report them to the gym.
Anything like, "I'm focusing on my workout. I don't want to talk." leaves the option for them to harass you after your workout.
Just have to not be afraid to have established authorities for the setting enforce your space.
Although again, that's not always viable for women either.
Saying that it is not viable for someone to enforce their personal space basically puts them in an untenable position, because if you do not say something or do something to make it clear that you do not want to be touched, then that leaves an ambiguous situation where the other person can argue that they didn't know. It also disempowers the victim, making them feel as they they cannot or should not enforce their own personal space in the first place - that they have to go get someone else to do it for them.
You are 100% allowed to say, "I do not want to be touched" and expect to have that statement respected by other people. You are 100% allowed to use physical means (such as pushing or blocking) to defend your personal space if someone attempts to touch you without your consent. Period. There are no social situations in which these are not reasonable behaviors, and the expectation should be that if you say something like this and your wishes are not respected, then the other people are at fault. Period.
This is what made me rethink a bit of my response as well as consider leaving the gym a viable option. It isn't fair in the least to assume that a firm no would be taken appropriately by someone with apparent issues.
Reporting him will help future women perhaps if the gym takes action, but may not help the op today.
Congratulations, you've touched upon the reality of womanhood in the year 2017.
You're assuming I'm saying that's not always viable because women shouldn't be allowed to express their desires or defend their personal space.
I'm saying that it's not always viable because men have a history of not taking rejection in a reasonable or thoughtful way, and it's not even remotely unheard of for women to be assaulted for doing so.
OP needs to get as many authority figures as possible aware of the situation.
If the gym people brush it off, bark up the chain of command.. but worst case scenario OP might have to stop going which is garbage and I hope it doesn't come to that.
My post was meant to reinforce the idea that it is well within hanbybambi's rights to want to be left alone. How to do so, and whether it is appropriate to do so face-to-face in this case, are separate questions. hanbybambi has expressed issues with any type of confrontation whatsoever, including in apparently innocuous situations, which is what I was trying to speak to. Oftentimes people who have those kinds of issues are not coming from a place of fear so much as a place of insecurity. But the default position should absolutely be that you have a right to your own personal space and you have a right to simply be left alone. You should not feel like you are "not entitled" to those things in the first place.
I get what you are trying to say here, but my experience is that what men perceive as women being insecure is outright fear.
These insecurities manifest because women are taught to be afraid but to never express it. Its disingenuous to treat this specific situation like a confidence problem when there can be massive repercussions in every facet of a woman's life for assertiveness on any level. Especially when accusing someone of inappropriate sexual advances.
Maybe she also has trouble asking for a normal things, and I get that's what you mean, but emphasizing the severity of the situation helps women report things and not think its any fault of their own for not speaking up.