when someone gives odds like 1 in 50 BJILLION it's not backed up by science, it's just scaremongering, or some guy who half-understands the theory going "oh man, what if..."
there is no evidence that the LHC poses any risk, and there is plenty of evidence that it poses zero risk, since the situation being created inside the collider is duplicated within observable range all the time, and we have yet to be apocalypted.
Granted.
Are you saying that because it's observable and nothing bad has happened yet that it can't happen ever? Just wondering. I know that claiming this is going to rip a hole in the universe is completely retarded, it's just as retarded as sticking your finger in your ears and going "LALALA never will happen evar because something I don't know everything about is something I understand completely." Same scale of retardedness, opposite ends of the spectrum.
|people who are wrong---------------------|------------------------you-----me|
there is about as much chance that the LHC will kill us all as there is a chance that I will spontaneously fall through the floor because of quantum.
So, how do you know? If the purpose of the experiment was to prove, hopefully, the existence of the higgs boson -- then they are trying things and proving things in which the knowledge is lacking.
But if you blindly trust everything someone tells you, or if you skeptically trust everything someone tells you based of research from the same group of people, then whatever.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
|people who are wrong---------------------|------------------------you-----me|
there is about as much chance that the LHC will kill us all as there is a chance that I will spontaneously fall through the floor because of quantum.
So, how do you know? If the purpose of the experiment was to prove, hopefully, the existence of the higgs boson -- then they are trying things and proving things in which the knowledge is lacking.
But if you blindly trust everything someone tells you, or if you skeptically trust everything someone tells you based of research from the same group of people, then whatever.
the LHC collisions happen every day in our atmosphere. no ill effects. therefore, we're safe.
|people who are wrong---------------------|------------------------you-----me|
there is about as much chance that the LHC will kill us all as there is a chance that I will spontaneously fall through the floor because of quantum.
So, how do you know? If the purpose of the experiment was to prove, hopefully, the existence of the higgs boson -- then they are trying things and proving things in which the knowledge is lacking.
But if you blindly trust everything someone tells you, or if you skeptically trust everything someone tells you based of research from the same group of people, then whatever.
the LHC collisions happen every day in our atmosphere. no ill effects. therefore, we're safe.
So, that is to say, that no bad things have ever happened from those types of collisions?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
Has there ever been an observable cataclysmic reaction to these collisions that were under certain specific conditions? Just because they happen in the atmosphere all the time, doesn't mean that with a large enough scale, colliding them in seclusion in a gigantic magnetic tube might not have some bad side effect.
What I'm looking for is there "Has there ever been anything bad happening from these collisions ever."
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
Has there ever been an observable cataclysmic reaction to these collisions that were under certain specific conditions? Just because they happen in the atmosphere all the time, doesn't mean that with a large enough scale, colliding them in seclusion in a gigantic magnetic tube might not have some bad side effect.
What I'm looking for is there "Has there ever been anything bad happening from these collisions ever."
I guess the physics in Switzerland are pretty different to the physics in the atmosphere.
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
Has there ever been an observable cataclysmic reaction to these collisions that were under certain specific conditions? Just because they happen in the atmosphere all the time, doesn't mean that with a large enough scale, colliding them in seclusion in a gigantic magnetic tube might not have some bad side effect.
What I'm looking for is there "Has there ever been anything bad happening from these collisions ever."
I guess the physics in Switzerland are pretty different to the physics in the atmosphere.
Generally our atmosphere isn't an atom-less(?), magnetic tube.
Let me ask it again. Has there ever been a situation where these types of collisions has resulted in a very odd/bad/cataclysmic reaction?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
Has there ever been an observable cataclysmic reaction to these collisions that were under certain specific conditions? Just because they happen in the atmosphere all the time, doesn't mean that with a large enough scale, colliding them in seclusion in a gigantic magnetic tube might not have some bad side effect.
What I'm looking for is there "Has there ever been anything bad happening from these collisions ever."
I don't think there has.
If you're really looking for bad things that have "happened" due to cosmic rays, you could hit up some moon landing hoax sites, they'll have plenty for you.
At that point you should really take a step back though.
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
Has there ever been an observable cataclysmic reaction to these collisions that were under certain specific conditions? Just because they happen in the atmosphere all the time, doesn't mean that with a large enough scale, colliding them in seclusion in a gigantic magnetic tube might not have some bad side effect.
What I'm looking for is there "Has there ever been anything bad happening from these collisions ever."
I don't think there has.
If you're really looking for bad things that have "happened" due to cosmic rays, you could hit up some moon landing hoax sites, they'll have plenty for you.
At that point you should really take a step back though.
odd/bad/cataclysmic? no.
That's all I was wondering. At a risk of venturing off-topic. What has "happened" due to cosmic rays? This has peaked my interest in bullshit theories.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
Has there ever been an observable cataclysmic reaction to these collisions that were under certain specific conditions? Just because they happen in the atmosphere all the time, doesn't mean that with a large enough scale, colliding them in seclusion in a gigantic magnetic tube might not have some bad side effect.
What I'm looking for is there "Has there ever been anything bad happening from these collisions ever."
I guess the physics in Switzerland are pretty different to the physics in the atmosphere.
Generally our atmosphere isn't an atom-less(?), magnetic tube.
There's plenty of atom-less points in the atmosphere though. Which is where the collisions would happen.
These collisions have happened multiple times a second (as I understand it) for the entirety of the atmosphere's lifespan, about 5 billion years. Plus they've been happening in the atmospheres of the other planets in our solar system for at least that, and they're all still here. I' think that's a large enough number of repeats to scientifically say that nothing bad can happen ever.
moon hoaxers claim that there was no way the shuttle would have been properly insulated against cosmic rays or a radiation belt around the earth or what have you, and thus they would have died on their way to the moon rather than actually land. or something like that.
mostly they are there to be punched in the face by badass old astronauts, not to be listened to.
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
Has there ever been an observable cataclysmic reaction to these collisions that were under certain specific conditions? Just because they happen in the atmosphere all the time, doesn't mean that with a large enough scale, colliding them in seclusion in a gigantic magnetic tube might not have some bad side effect.
What I'm looking for is there "Has there ever been anything bad happening from these collisions ever."
I don't think there has.
If you're really looking for bad things that have "happened" due to cosmic rays, you could hit up some moon landing hoax sites, they'll have plenty for you.
At that point you should really take a step back though.
odd/bad/cataclysmic? no.
That's all I was wondering. At a risk of venturing off-topic. What has "happened" due to cosmic rays? This has peaked my interest in bullshit theories.
Well, they helped us to discover neutrino oscillation, which is kind of interesting.
moon hoaxers claim that there was no way the shuttle would have been properly insulated against cosmic rays or a radiation belt around the earth or what have you, and thus they would have died on their way to the moon rather than actually land. or something like that.
mostly they are there to be punched in the face by badass old astronauts, not to be listened to.
moon hoaxers claim that there was no way the shuttle would have been properly insulated against cosmic rays or a radiation belt around the earth or what have you, and thus they would have died on their way to the moon rather than actually land. or something like that.
mostly they are there to be punched in the face by badass old astronauts, not to be listened to.
I've heard that, but isn't most of the cosmic radiation stoppable by a piece of paper? Also, the thing that protects us here is the magnetic field, which surrounds the moon as well, doesn't it? Man, what?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Pretty much proves everyones point. Aldrin can't take criticism or argument, and has to resort to violence like a common, hick thug. He has no knowledge of language or decency. Punch first, ask questions later. Remind anyone of Iraq?
moon hoaxers claim that there was no way the shuttle would have been properly insulated against cosmic rays or a radiation belt around the earth or what have you, and thus they would have died on their way to the moon rather than actually land. or something like that.
mostly they are there to be punched in the face by badass old astronauts, not to be listened to.
I've heard that, but isn't most of the cosmic radiation stoppable by a piece of paper? Also, the thing that protects us here is the magnetic field, which surrounds the moon as well, doesn't it? Man, what?
moon hoaxers claim that there was no way the shuttle would have been properly insulated against cosmic rays or a radiation belt around the earth or what have you, and thus they would have died on their way to the moon rather than actually land. or something like that.
mostly they are there to be punched in the face by badass old astronauts, not to be listened to.
I've heard that, but isn't most of the cosmic radiation stoppable by a piece of paper? Also, the thing that protects us here is the magnetic field, which surrounds the moon as well, doesn't it? Man, what?
moon hoaxers claim that there was no way the shuttle would have been properly insulated against cosmic rays or a radiation belt around the earth or what have you, and thus they would have died on their way to the moon rather than actually land. or something like that.
mostly they are there to be punched in the face by badass old astronauts, not to be listened to.
I've heard that, but isn't most of the cosmic radiation stoppable by a piece of paper? Also, the thing that protects us here is the magnetic field, which surrounds the moon as well, doesn't it? Man, what?
moon hoaxers claim that there was no way the shuttle would have been properly insulated against cosmic rays or a radiation belt around the earth or what have you, and thus they would have died on their way to the moon rather than actually land. or something like that.
mostly they are there to be punched in the face by badass old astronauts, not to be listened to.
I've heard that, but isn't most of the cosmic radiation stoppable by a piece of paper? Also, the thing that protects us here is the magnetic field, which surrounds the moon as well, doesn't it? Man, what?
Hang on, why are the van Allen belts not a problem for the astronauts on the moon missions? Is the deal that they're actually not intense enough for the time you spend in them, or are they predominantly particles you deflected by dense things like metals?
EDIT: Oh the answer is right there in the wiki article - 3mm Al foil will do it. So the rule is "not intense enough to be a problem".
I do not think that the LHC is going to kill anybody, unless a large piece of it falls off while someone is underneath it. I most certainly do not believe it will destroy the universe, or the world for that matter.
I have only brought up any of the so-called "doomsday-scenarios" so that I could see them debunked. Call it playing Devil's Advocate, if you will. I knew there were people who knew what they were talking about in here and I wanted to know how to tell the panic-mongers they were wrong.
I believe that there is a difference between something being entirely statistically impossible and something being incredibly near-impossibly improbable, and I believe that it is irresponsible to say that something is the former when it is, in fact, the latter.
I think the human race does a lot of things on a daily basis that are far more damaging to us as a whole than anything the LHC has a statistically insignificant chance of doing, and that the grand majority of those things have nowhere near the beneficial potential that the experiments that will be taking place inside the LHC have. In other words, the practically indisputable rewards far outweigh the unimaginably unlikely risks.
And, when I talk about waveform probability, I am not talking about physics. I am talking about the concept that human observation and decision-making narrows a universe of infinite possibilities all existing simultaneously into a singular, linear progression. It has nothing to do with the movement of particles or mathematics, though I believe the origin of the concept is intertwined with those things. I made an incorrect assumption, and I apologized for it and corrected myself. I have no desire to understand the math behind these things, and I have no desire to be "right" in any case.
That said, there seems to be some disconnect between what I am trying to relate and the way the discussion is progressing, and I have been unable to resolve it. Also, I have brought up every alarmist point and had it thoroughly debunked to my satisfaction, which was my goal in becoming involved in the discussion in the first place. In light of those two factors, I am removing myself from the discussion.
I sincerely hope the CERN crew gets the LHC up and colliding as soon as possible, so the scientific community can get to finding some answers and, perhaps more importantly, finding the next set of questions.
Carpe Noctem.
Glorph on
Everything I Need to Know, I Learned from the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon:
- Endure. In enduring, grow strong.
- Balance, in all things.
- There cannot be two skies.
Posts
Granted.
Are you saying that because it's observable and nothing bad has happened yet that it can't happen ever? Just wondering. I know that claiming this is going to rip a hole in the universe is completely retarded, it's just as retarded as sticking your finger in your ears and going "LALALA never will happen evar because something I don't know everything about is something I understand completely." Same scale of retardedness, opposite ends of the spectrum.
I'm at the V. But then I approach everything from a skeptical angle.
But you know. What if...
there is about as much chance that the LHC will kill us all as there is a chance that I will spontaneously fall through the floor because of quantum.
So, how do you know? If the purpose of the experiment was to prove, hopefully, the existence of the higgs boson -- then they are trying things and proving things in which the knowledge is lacking.
But if you blindly trust everything someone tells you, or if you skeptically trust everything someone tells you based of research from the same group of people, then whatever.
the LHC collisions happen every day in our atmosphere. no ill effects. therefore, we're safe.
So, that is to say, that no bad things have ever happened from those types of collisions?
so i'm thinking it's fairly unlikely that the world will blow up when we observe one closely
now if you're suggesting someone might get cancer from sitting on a magnet while protons blow up under his scrotum, sure, maybe? but it is not an apocalyptic machine. it doesn't have the chutzpah.
Has there ever been an observable cataclysmic reaction to these collisions that were under certain specific conditions? Just because they happen in the atmosphere all the time, doesn't mean that with a large enough scale, colliding them in seclusion in a gigantic magnetic tube might not have some bad side effect.
What I'm looking for is there "Has there ever been anything bad happening from these collisions ever."
I guess the physics in Switzerland are pretty different to the physics in the atmosphere.
Generally our atmosphere isn't an atom-less(?), magnetic tube.
Let me ask it again. Has there ever been a situation where these types of collisions has resulted in a very odd/bad/cataclysmic reaction?
I don't think there has.
If you're really looking for bad things that have "happened" due to cosmic rays, you could hit up some moon landing hoax sites, they'll have plenty for you.
At that point you should really take a step back though.
odd/bad/cataclysmic? no.
That's all I was wondering. At a risk of venturing off-topic. What has "happened" due to cosmic rays? This has peaked my interest in bullshit theories.
There's plenty of atom-less points in the atmosphere though. Which is where the collisions would happen.
These collisions have happened multiple times a second (as I understand it) for the entirety of the atmosphere's lifespan, about 5 billion years. Plus they've been happening in the atmospheres of the other planets in our solar system for at least that, and they're all still here. I' think that's a large enough number of repeats to scientifically say that nothing bad can happen ever.
mostly they are there to be punched in the face by badass old astronauts, not to be listened to.
Well, they helped us to discover neutrino oscillation, which is kind of interesting.
Hmm, these sound interesting too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-energy_cosmic_ray
Dude's pretty strong for his age
I've heard that, but isn't most of the cosmic radiation stoppable by a piece of paper? Also, the thing that protects us here is the magnetic field, which surrounds the moon as well, doesn't it? Man, what?
That was a cool video.
Edit: God.. youtube comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_belt#Impact_on_space_travel
I don't remember the moon having somebodies face on it.
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
More importantly who is he talking to on the phone?
Flying spaghetti monster?
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
EDIT: Oh the answer is right there in the wiki article - 3mm Al foil will do it. So the rule is "not intense enough to be a problem".
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
I do not think that the LHC is going to kill anybody, unless a large piece of it falls off while someone is underneath it. I most certainly do not believe it will destroy the universe, or the world for that matter.
I have only brought up any of the so-called "doomsday-scenarios" so that I could see them debunked. Call it playing Devil's Advocate, if you will. I knew there were people who knew what they were talking about in here and I wanted to know how to tell the panic-mongers they were wrong.
I believe that there is a difference between something being entirely statistically impossible and something being incredibly near-impossibly improbable, and I believe that it is irresponsible to say that something is the former when it is, in fact, the latter.
I think the human race does a lot of things on a daily basis that are far more damaging to us as a whole than anything the LHC has a statistically insignificant chance of doing, and that the grand majority of those things have nowhere near the beneficial potential that the experiments that will be taking place inside the LHC have. In other words, the practically indisputable rewards far outweigh the unimaginably unlikely risks.
And, when I talk about waveform probability, I am not talking about physics. I am talking about the concept that human observation and decision-making narrows a universe of infinite possibilities all existing simultaneously into a singular, linear progression. It has nothing to do with the movement of particles or mathematics, though I believe the origin of the concept is intertwined with those things. I made an incorrect assumption, and I apologized for it and corrected myself. I have no desire to understand the math behind these things, and I have no desire to be "right" in any case.
That said, there seems to be some disconnect between what I am trying to relate and the way the discussion is progressing, and I have been unable to resolve it. Also, I have brought up every alarmist point and had it thoroughly debunked to my satisfaction, which was my goal in becoming involved in the discussion in the first place. In light of those two factors, I am removing myself from the discussion.
I sincerely hope the CERN crew gets the LHC up and colliding as soon as possible, so the scientific community can get to finding some answers and, perhaps more importantly, finding the next set of questions.
Carpe Noctem.
- Endure. In enduring, grow strong.
- Balance, in all things.
- There cannot be two skies.
Article here
Oh good, at least we get to have another Christmas before the apocalypse!
Ha chachacha!
http://www.neatorama.com/2008/10/05/the-man-who-stuck-his-head-inside-a-particle-accelerator/
So this won't be happening now? Bummer. Guess I should cancel the t-shirts.
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