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[XCOM] XCOM 2.5 is XCOPS

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    WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    I put my first reflex grip on Verge's rifle. That plus slam, crowdsource, the motile wotsit, a laser sight, and talon rounds made Verge wayyyy more useful in the end game. For the mid-game I found him underwhelming because fights just didn't go on long enough to make good use of mindflay, but that setup would enable him to rapidly get perfect accuracy guaranteed crits with extra extra critical damage on top of the usual suite of crowd control abilities.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Fighting a mission in a water reclamation facility. Finish an enemy with subdue, unconscious enemy ragdolls over the ledge and falls into a reclamation vat.


    Uh... I should probably just go ahead and count that one as a kill.

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    WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Fighting a mission in a water reclamation facility. Finish an enemy with subdue, unconscious enemy ragdolls over the ledge and falls into a reclamation vat.


    Uh... I should probably just go ahead and count that one as a kill.

    He's just resting.

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    YerMumYerMum Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Fighting a mission in a water reclamation facility. Finish an enemy with subdue, unconscious enemy ragdolls over the ledge and falls into a reclamation vat.


    Uh... I should probably just go ahead and count that one as a kill.

    He's just resting.

    Pining for the fjords

    Rugged individualist
    Destiny Profile : http://www.bungie.net/en/Profile/254/7028016
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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Great, you created a super villain

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    TIL Tongue Pull sets off Overwatch, and in a particularly amazing way. Had a breach bonus that automatically set everyone in Overwatch after the breach. Torque pulled a Sorcerer who had two enemies enslaved, which set off Overwatch on two other teammates, who proceeded to blast the Sorcerer who redirected the damage to her slaves before Torque finished her off with a bind, effectively netting me three kills in one pull.

    good snekko

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    PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    There's an update out
    Today's patch includes fixes for the following issues:

    Performance
    • Improved stability/performance while loading.
    • Improved stability in Tactical.

    Tactical
    • Fixed a bug that could cause units to sometimes float above the ground.
    • Fixed a bug allowing conflicting modifiers on breach points.
    • Fixed a bug causing breach items to display incorrect usage text.
    • Fixed a bug allowing Psi-Zombies to attack from too far away.
    • Fixed a bug causing Shrapnel Grenade targeting to display incorrectly.
    • Fixed a bug causing an inaccurate Encounter count in multi-map missions.
    • Fixed a bug allowing a Sectopod to spawn too early in the Gray Phoenix Takedown.
    • Fixed a bug that could allow Patchwork to take infinite actions.
    • Fixed a bug preventing hit/miss VO from playing.
    • Fixed a bug that could prevent Cherub from moving.
    • Rebalanced the Sacred Coil Takedown and fixed a Gatekeeper bug during the Takedown.

    Strategy
    • Fixed a bug that could cause equipment to disappear from the Armory.
    • Fixed a bug preventing Scavenger Market NPCs from showing up.
    • Rebalanced Mach Weave.

    Miscellaneous
    • Fixed a bug causing the end-of-game stats to disappear on lower resolutions.
    • Fixed a bug causing game audio to end before game credits.
    • Updated the audio listings in the game credits.

    Launcher Update

    We have released a new update for the 2K Launcher today. The update should download automatically; if you are having trouble, restart your Steam client and it should download automatically.

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    Mr FuzzbuttMr Fuzzbutt Registered User regular
    welp, got level 3 in all districts

    time to put the big bullets in all my guns and get to killin' now that intel is much less useful

    broken image link
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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Goodbye slippery snek

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    "Sweet, new patch! Guess it's time to take a break from Anno 1800 and finish that second run of Chimera Squad!"

    First mission in:
    "What the hell? My guys are taking a lot more damage than I expected..."

    Second mission in:
    "Hmm...wasn't expecting to get battle scars, but I guess it's manageable."

    Third mission in:
    "WTF is this bullshit there's no way this fucker eats THAT much damage."

    *reads patch notes more closely, squints at 'Rebalanced Mach Weave'*

    "Oooooohhhh..."

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    How rebalanced is rebalanced? Is it 25 dodge rather than 50 now? or worse?

    7qmGNt5.png
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
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    scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    it is +30 dodge now

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    ah that's pretty fair tbh

    7qmGNt5.png
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
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    scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    yeah imho it still beats out the alternatives

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    CatalaseCatalase Registered User regular
    Regeneration weave is probably the next best

    "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
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    Ark EvensongArk Evensong The NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    Oooh, patch. Good. Should start up my second run soonish, then.

    Hrmm, no mention of improved controller support? Place of the "cursor" isn't always very visible when navigating menus. There's no visual feedback for the ability bar in tactical mode at all, even. (Yes, there's the description of the currently selected ability above, so not unworkable, but I felt like I was searching for the reload option almost every time, instead of just "tap-tap-tap, that's the one - reload".)

    Also, every now and then the selection gets stuck in a different/invisible menu. About half the time when I got to choose a new teammate it was entirely unresponsive, only being able to "Accept", choosing the leftmost character. (Workaround: just use the mouse instead at that point.)

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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    XCOM EU had great controller support and was my preferred way to play. It's a shame they moved away from that.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Hah, patch comes out the day after I finish my second run.

    Eh, it's five days until the Age of Wonders:Planetfall expansion comes out. I can go without starting another XCOPS.

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    FremFrem Registered User regular
    TheStig wrote: »
    XCOM EU had great controller support and was my preferred way to play. It's a shame they moved away from that.

    The only controller XCOM 2 supported at launch was the Steam Controller, and they went back and fixed things up when the console releases happened. Hopefully it's a similar situation here, assuming that console support is on the road map.

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Now that Chimera's mostly fixed I'm going for the Impossible (not Ironman because why would I risk a softlock when there isn't even an achievement) and I'm sure some people have made it without using Terminal early but I sure can't. I'm excited to see if the rebalanced Sacred Coil boss will end my campaign because I went all in on Patchwork and Coil first to build momentum. Also it makes me happy for some reason having the Gremlin Gals on missions together. It's weird design how I really don't want to do the optional purple missions now, seems like it should be the other way around.

    Coinage on
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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Well I made it through Sacred Coil fine even with Blue Blood getting ganked at the beginning of the last encounter, so it's definitely more fair. I'm not sure I would have been able to manage without Patchwork, though. Unlike my first campaign I actually got a Reflex Grip and Motile Inducer so it became the Blue Blood/Godmother walks into a bar, everybody dies show which was pretty helpful.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Terminal was 100% essential for me my entire campaign, except for the tail end when I finally got regen weave for everybody that needed it (which was everybody except Verge, who could recharge health via the neural network). Then she became a little less essential, but was still essential for keeping characters on their feet after taking focused fire. There's simply too much unavoidable damage to go without her unless you want to pack medkits on EVERYBODY (plus probably take a medpatch or two).

    The character balance seems pretty crappy, to be honest. If a character doesn't have abilities with significant AoE or multi-attack potential, they're pretty much junk. The exception is Terminal, because her having the only heal ability means she's basically the single most important squad member. But every time I was forced to pull Claymore or Verge off my squad, it was a fucking pain in the ass because of the huge loss of ability to keep the action economy in my favor. Axiom in particular seems a complete waste of a squad spot; he's built wholly around melee, his melee is decent only after you juice him up with rage, using said rage can easily turn him against you, and it has really really crappy multi-attack potential.

    To that end, the length of training was pretty irritating. No way to speed it up, you're just straight hosed on taking a given character for 2-5 missions. That's a fuckload of missions in the late game when the high-powered enemies really start piling on, and does NOT combine well with certain characters being immensely more useful than others. Further, the way the game forces you down the path to completion does not please me; you MUST do the critical missions and the critical missions are on a time limit, so you can definitely reach a point where you don't want to pull anybody important for training because they'll be out for at least one major mission, maybe more. It actually becomes a detriment to take missions that knock time off investigating critical missions, since that gives you less time to prep.

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    You don't melee with Axiom, what's good about him is Shrug It Off, the breach panic, and that he's holding a shotgun. Terminal is kind of essential for the multi-encounter missions, which isn't great, but otherwise I think the balance is fine. I just did an Impossible campaign without Verge or Claymore at all. The training times definitely are a pain in the ass, I never did Terminal and Blue Blood's final one because they weren't worth it.

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    WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    Having taken Terminal on the vast majority of missions in my first playthrough, I decided I would just enable full-heal between encounters on subsequent ones and skip her for the sake of variety.

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    WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    You don't melee with Axiom, what's good about him is Shrug It Off, the breach panic, and that he's holding a shotgun. Terminal is kind of essential for the multi-encounter missions, which isn't great, but otherwise I think the balance is fine. I just did an Impossible campaign without Verge or Claymore at all. The training times definitely are a pain in the ass, I never did Terminal and Blue Blood's final one because they weren't worth it.

    Man, agree to disagree. Ain't nothing better than having him enter the room first to panic some rando, then using whatever that ability's called to let him psych up all the way and do a deep run into the room to beat some ass. He'll almost always go berserk and give you another free attack, and the attacks frequently knock out/panic those poor bastards.

    The Hulk Smash tactic can be devastating if used properly.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    The problem with his melee is that it can miss, the debuff results are random, and even when you succeed in the kill you'd much rather have an incapacitate for your troubles (which is guaranteed damage + Intel). So you really don't want to use it until he gets the ability to survive getting shot in the face repeatedly, which doesn't happen until late game.

    The Beserk is nice but it's really just another charge-up mechanic that basically means "in 3-4 turns, you get a free shot at someone". And again, because it can't be controlled and the results are so inconsistent, you have no idea whether it's worth all the bother.

    To be fair, by the time he gets to the late game, he's pretty good. But it's getting him there that's the troublesome part. And it's an open question as to whether he's worth the bother given characters like Godmother and Claymore are great early-game and just as good late-game.

    This goes back to the whole thing with this game where the characters are clearly balanced with early vs. late game in mind, in addition to their specific strengths/weaknesses against particular factions. How successful that balance has been is an open question...

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Axiom is a fixture on both of my playthroughs. There were a few missions where he dropped three guys on the first round of an encounter. Yeah, it can be random, but it feels good.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    I tried Axiom for a couple missions, then immediately ditched him after a round where he went for a melee, missed the guy, raged, hit the second guy, neither were disabled or killed, and Axiom ended up stuck outside of cover and in a lousy position. He's got basically nothing that actually works with his shotgun and shotguns in general are HUGELY less useful in Chimera Squad than the main games (they just don't have the massive potential damage output), so it's not really worth taking him at all for that. It's also pretty easy to pile the team with breach gadgets of equal or greater usefulness than maybe applying panic on Breach.

    In comparison, Zephyr's melee attacks never miss, she gets a free move after melee, can completely nullify a shot targeting her, gets a big AoE version of her melee, gets free melee against approaching enemies (which can be pretty great when the chryssalids show up), and tops it all off with Reaper.

    Basically, everything Axiom does is done a lot better by somebody else and without the random chance of having him turn on you or berserk into a vulnerable position.

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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Axiom is almost unkillable with the right gear and abilities, and shotguns are easy to get to 100% hit early on, which is the magic number

    Godmother is flat-out better than Axiom, though, I don't think that's a question

    His melee attacks having such poor hit % is a bummer, but they act as an inherent run and gun ability with the upgrade that lets them be used as free actions. Quake is also extremely good. Axiom is a very effective character late game, while Zephyr is super strong early on and tapers off

    Evil Multifarious on
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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    The most confusing thing to me is that Patchwork has a fake gremlin Stasis instead of Shelter. His quote is literally I can be your shield...

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    MorranMorran Registered User regular
    Late to the party, but have finally started playing xcom2.

    Great fun so far, but i find myself confused and overwhelmed by the strategic map - timers, boxes and resources everywhere. The tutorial does not really do a great job explaining it all either.

    Is there any good resource to read up on his this work? I'm getting anxious that I'm missing something important in all of the data and options available to me ...

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    On the lower difficulties the Avatar project timer is not a big deal. The game unhelpfully doesn't tell you this, but you have a 2 week grace period after it maxes out to bring it back down before game over. Story missions also bring it down. Also, you can get alien facility leads to research that let you attack one of the alien facilities even if you don't have contact with its region so it's okay if they build a facility really far away. The resources lying around that you can scan are really just for time passing, you can pick whichever one has the resource you need most right now, they repeat all the time. You also don't need to rush contacting more regions, you do need to do it but your soldiers getting gear they need to survive early is much more important.

    X2 does try to stress you out by giving you all this stuff to look at, but the strategy map is actually much more forgiving than X1. As long as your soldiers aren't dying too much and you're not completely ignoring the doom clock you really can't screw yourself into an unwinnable position. It's been quite a while since I played the game the first time but I think the biggest trap is the retaliation missions, which aren't even on the damn map. If you click the dark events tab on the map it will give you the estimated time until the next one (unless you haven't done the first one yet), and you definitely want your A team ready for each of those because they can go south fast.

    Oh and do bluescreen protocol in the proving grounds as soon as you're able and give everyone you can bluescreen rounds. Absolute livesavers against some of the most annoying enemies.

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    I found Verge and Zephyr to be pretty worthless late-game. Axiom did good.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Verge was pretty OP for me the whole game. He starts out average in any fight, then quickly ramps up to "can't miss anything" after maybe a turn and then can mind control multiple enemies at once following that. The longer any fight gets, the better he gets, particularly with regen health from his neural network and enemies on his neural network only ever getting knocked out. I'm appreciating having Axiom for dealing with robots but honestly, the biggest benefit I see from her is being able to put a permanent +15 to accuracy on all enemies in an encounter. She rarely gets to chain her lightning attack, her close-range defensive zap is worthless for damage, and she's only average with the assault rifle while Verge is a monster with it.

    Zephyr definitely drops off, since her damage doesn't scale. Not terrible for taking down multiple weakened enemies, but Blueblood is massively better for the same role since he can fire anywhere from two times up to as many rounds as he has in a magazine, can attack multiple enemies from a much longer range, and the pistol is crazy strong in Chimera Squad. It is very possible to kick in a door, weaken everything with Claymore grenades, push Blueblood up the timeline to act next, and then just clear the room with Faceoff. And that can be against on the order of 8-9 enemies present, including andromedons and mechs.

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Verge was pretty OP for me the whole game. He starts out average in any fight, then quickly ramps up to "can't miss anything" after maybe a turn and then can mind control multiple enemies at once following that. The longer any fight gets, the better he gets, particularly with regen health from his neural network and enemies on his neural network only ever getting knocked out. I'm appreciating having Axiom for dealing with robots but honestly, the biggest benefit I see from her is being able to put a permanent +15 to accuracy on all enemies in an encounter. She rarely gets to chain her lightning attack, her close-range defensive zap is worthless for damage, and she's only average with the assault rifle while Verge is a monster with it.

    Zephyr definitely drops off, since her damage doesn't scale. Not terrible for taking down multiple weakened enemies, but Blueblood is massively better for the same role since he can fire anywhere from two times up to as many rounds as he has in a magazine, can attack multiple enemies from a much longer range, and the pistol is crazy strong in Chimera Squad. It is very possible to kick in a door, weaken everything with Claymore grenades, push Blueblood up the timeline to act next, and then just clear the room with Faceoff. And that can be against on the order of 8-9 enemies present, including andromedons and mechs.

    My problems with Verge is that by the time he gets enough people in the network most enemies are already dead, and that his stun is too unreliable.

    But maybe I was using him wrong or with the wrong build? Any tips?

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Verge was pretty OP for me the whole game. He starts out average in any fight, then quickly ramps up to "can't miss anything" after maybe a turn and then can mind control multiple enemies at once following that. The longer any fight gets, the better he gets, particularly with regen health from his neural network and enemies on his neural network only ever getting knocked out. I'm appreciating having Axiom for dealing with robots but honestly, the biggest benefit I see from her is being able to put a permanent +15 to accuracy on all enemies in an encounter. She rarely gets to chain her lightning attack, her close-range defensive zap is worthless for damage, and she's only average with the assault rifle while Verge is a monster with it.

    Zephyr definitely drops off, since her damage doesn't scale. Not terrible for taking down multiple weakened enemies, but Blueblood is massively better for the same role since he can fire anywhere from two times up to as many rounds as he has in a magazine, can attack multiple enemies from a much longer range, and the pistol is crazy strong in Chimera Squad. It is very possible to kick in a door, weaken everything with Claymore grenades, push Blueblood up the timeline to act next, and then just clear the room with Faceoff. And that can be against on the order of 8-9 enemies present, including andromedons and mechs.

    My problems with Verge is that by the time he gets enough people in the network most enemies are already dead, and that his stun is too unreliable.

    But maybe I was using him wrong or with the wrong build? Any tips?

    I'll tell you what I did on my first playthrough on the second highest difficulty back when the mach weave was stronger. It primarily shines in the end-game missions where encounters run longer and you have all the skills/kit to make it work.

    Take crowdsource and slam to maximize how rapidly the neural network's effectiveness builds. Give him talon rounds and a laser sight/that gizmo that lets him fire without ending his turn so that he can more easily reach high crit chances, do even more damage with crits when they proc, and fire them off twice per round. Place Verge in the last breach position, then hit him with team up and the motile enhancer immediately. Ideally also Terminal's Cooperation. With all those actions, build your NN up to a point that gives you high accuracy and crit chance. Shoot stuff. Strategically spread the damage around so that biological enemies can be reduced to very low health and nonlethally finished off by a teammate, preserving their contribution to the NN as necessary. Don't be afraid to just kill stuff, though. Sometimes that's more worthwhile in the short term than keeping the NN boost would be in the long term. Use Mindflay and Puppeteer when the situation makes them more useful than just shooting stuff with your maxed out AR, which won't be often. Use the AR that grants Banish so you can hit a good NN number and wreck boss enemies.

    For smaller encounters and more mid-game strategy, just start with a slam and then use a stun + shoot on every turn. That gets you +30% accuracy and +20% crit rate right out of the gate, which is enough to make Verge a capable sniper on top of partially/fully locking down one biological enemy per turn.

    The frequent, larger than normal crits thanks in particular to talon rounds are what seemed to make the biggest difference to me.

    WhiteZinfandel on
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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Alternatively, Verge with the Serial ability rifle is basically a second Blueblood with increased range and damage and almost no chance of missing.

    But the point is that it really only takes something like one turn to get him rolling hot and by late-game, you should have at least one Motile Inducer for a free entire turn plus Cooperation from Terminal for another action. So you can easily have 2-3 enemies on the neural network by the time Verge's actual turn rolls around, at which point he effectively doesn't miss short of enemy abilities that block shots. He's the best for making sure that chunk of damage you need on a given enemy is going to land so your whole team doesn't get hit with something big.

    Ninja Snarl P on
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    People talk about Motile Inducer but I still think Turncoat is the default best unless the encounter has absolutely no vulnerable enemies.

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    finnithfinnith ... TorontoRegistered User regular
    People talk about Motile Inducer but I still think Turncoat is the default best unless the encounter has absolutely no vulnerable enemies.

    whynotboth.jpg?

    Bnet: CavilatRest#1874
    Steam: CavilatRest
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    edited June 2020
    finnith wrote: »
    People talk about Motile Inducer but I still think Turncoat is the default best unless the encounter has absolutely no vulnerable enemies.

    whynotboth.jpg?

    becauseyoucanonlyequipone.png

    :P

    Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I just assumed that to be the case. Can you actually equip both?

    Inquisitor77 on
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