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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Our Batman's a Plonker

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Posts

  • Anarchy Rules!Anarchy Rules! Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Hey guys

    Took a break from our lovely island chain's politics for a while as it was bumming me out

    Any good news?

    Dunkirk is good, I guess? The bad news is Nolan whitewashed the fuck out of it - and that Henry Styles is a lead? Known for dating Taylor Swift.

    I think the whole white washing debate is rather overblown. There are no Indians in the film, but they made up less than 1% of the total soldiers on the beach. Sure, the French army was more diverse, but they just didn't appear in the film, with the main emphasis on the British (and there were certainly Black French soldiers shown).

    Harry Styles wasn't exactly a lead, and I thought he put in a very good performance. I find your attitude rather snobbish in that regard.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Hey guys

    Took a break from our lovely island chain's politics for a while as it was bumming me out

    Any good news?

    Dunkirk is good, I guess? The bad news is Nolan whitewashed the fuck out of it - and that Henry Styles is a lead? Known for dating Taylor Swift.

    I think the whole white washing debate is rather overblown. There are no Indians in the film, but they made up less than 1% of the total soldiers on the beach. Sure, the French army was more diverse, but they just didn't appear in the film, with the main emphasis on the British (and there were certainly Black French soldiers shown).

    Harry Styles wasn't exactly a lead, and I thought he put in a very good performance. I find your attitude rather snobbish in that regard.

    No they don't, that was the director's call. And there were far more non-whites there than the Indians, there's an article in the movie thread covering that. According to the movie these people don't exist. I know, I've seen it.

    And would it have really been that bad for one of these people to be the lead? Did every single person have to be white?

    Nor is this the first time a Nolan film has had issues with whitewashing casts, he's done it three times with Batman villains RE: Ra's al Ghul, Bane and
    Talia al Ghul
    .

    Styles did have a good performance, that was more of a joke since he's a famous pop singer.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    I would say that this movie offers, by far, the best excuse of all those. But it's still, as others say, "not a good look".

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Hey guys

    Took a break from our lovely island chain's politics for a while as it was bumming me out

    Any good news?

    Dunkirk is good, I guess? The bad news is Nolan whitewashed the fuck out of it - and that Henry Styles is a lead? Known for dating Taylor Swift.

    Harry Styles, isn't it? I think he is or was a member of wand erection (or some other boy band) and he's a surprisingly good actor and a surprisingly eloquent young man who has had more than a few things to say about how the girls who swoon over him are treated by the media, and the world in general.

    The whitewashing of Dunkirk is vile though. I'm sick and tired of this weird idea that Europe was 99.999% white until 1950.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    What's that Bond-spoof scene where Not007 gets twenty one, and hits again to bust out?
    It was either Austin Powers or a Simpsons episode, I'm pretty sure.
    Whatever, that's what we're doing.
    "I know the British mentality. A non-prepared British government official simply doesn’t exist."
    Counter argument:
    wadv9495c8i7.jpg

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • pezgenpezgen Registered User regular

    So they think we're being Sherlock Holmes, obfuscating their plans with a clever disguise, when in fact we're Baldrick.

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    What's that Bond-spoof scene where Not007 gets twenty one, and hits again to bust out?
    It was either Austin Powers or a Simpsons episode, I'm pretty sure.
    Whatever, that's what we're doing.
    "I know the British mentality. A non-prepared British government official simply doesn’t exist."
    Counter argument:
    wadv9495c8i7.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6_IZK-1naY

    7qmGNt5.png
  • pezgenpezgen Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    klemming wrote: »
    What's that Bond-spoof scene where Not007 gets twenty one, and hits again to bust out?
    It was either Austin Powers or a Simpsons episode, I'm pretty sure.
    Whatever, that's what we're doing.
    "I know the British mentality. A non-prepared British government official simply doesn’t exist."
    Counter argument:
    wadv9495c8i7.jpg

    Casino Dealer: :5.
    Austin Powers: I'll stay.
    Casino Dealer: I suggest you hit, sir.
    Austin Powers: I also like to live dangerously.
    Casino Dealer: 20 beat your 5 sir. I'm sorry, sir.

    God, this is exactly how it's going to play out.

    edit: beat'd

    pezgen on
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    pezgen wrote: »

    So they think we're being Sherlock Holmes, obfuscating their plans with a clever disguise, when in fact we're Baldrick.

    You take that back! Baldrick had the occasional good idea.
    We're General Melchett.
    Or possibly Captain Mainwaring, if we can mix shows.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Hitting past 21 was the Simpsons

    I don't know which outcome is worse in this tortured metaphor

  • pezgenpezgen Registered User regular
    We're Britain! We can have both outcomes, and win when the roulette wheel hits zero, too.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    My biggest shock was that they're taking breaks from the negotiations. I understand that you can't be negotiating 24/7, but Brexit is stupidly complicated so taking a break until the end of August seems poorly thought out.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular

    I like that the first British government response in the Politico article is ... so incredibly off the mark:
    A senior U.K. government official said that any perception of chaos or incompetence was false: “This idea that we’ve been sitting on our hands for the last year is just bollocks. We have been working extremely hard. What you will start to see over the next couple of months is the government setting out in public what has been happening in private.”

    "We've been working so hard, guys! We can't be incompetent!"

  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    The problem with government is that you have to pick one and there are no standards for that one. They don't have to be educated, they don't have to be good at anything, they don't even have to be good morally, they just need to get enough votes.

    And then these people are, based on favours or "strategy" made Minister of Education or Minister of Health or told to go negotiate Brexit.

    These people are fucking idiots.

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    HerrCron wrote: »
    altid wrote: »
    pezgen wrote: »
    I visited London once and tried to speak to someone on the Tube and now I've been banned.

    I bet you didn't have your oyster card ready before the barrier either, and stood on the wrong side of the escalator!

    That kind of behaviour carries a death sentence, as well it should.

    People who don't stand on the right aide of the escalator are fucking animals

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I understand that, in history, the British seem organized as fuck. But when you look under the covers, there's a ton of happy coincidence or complete shitshow (especially when it comes to their economy as recently as the 1700s and maybe even 1800s).

    The idea that this is strategy is laughable. Lord Bucketheat was right; it's a shitshow.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    My biggest shock was that they're taking breaks from the negotiations. I understand that you can't be negotiating 24/7, but Brexit is stupidly complicated so taking a break until the end of August seems poorly thought out.

    Aren't they horrendously understaffed and under funded?

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular

    RBS Investment Bank Income Jumps, Amsterdam Picked as EU Hub

    Revenue at Natwest Markets, which houses the trading business, increased 17 percent to 472 million pounds ($620 million), beating the forecasts of analysts at Morgan Stanley and Jefferies Group LLC.

    The firm also said it’s picked Amsterdam as its post-Brexit European Union trading hub and was preparing to move 150 jobs to the Dutch city.

    We'll continue to see firms make these moves.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »

    RBS Investment Bank Income Jumps, Amsterdam Picked as EU Hub

    Revenue at Natwest Markets, which houses the trading business, increased 17 percent to 472 million pounds ($620 million), beating the forecasts of analysts at Morgan Stanley and Jefferies Group LLC.

    The firm also said it’s picked Amsterdam as its post-Brexit European Union trading hub and was preparing to move 150 jobs to the Dutch city.

    We'll continue to see firms make these moves.

    Needless to say, these are not minimum wage or even semi-skilled jobs. Virtually all of them will be upper tax bracket roles, and every job like that typically supports 3-4 other jobs in the local economic area.

  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Taking back control!
    According to a study by the GMB union sourced from official figures, nearly half the workers employed in the UK’s fruit and vegetable “processing and preserving sector” are from countries within the EU. In meat processing, the figure is 44%. But among seasonal businesses that use fruit and veg pickers, the number usually rockets to more than 90%. Such figures denote thousands of people who are often poorly paid and prepared to do monotonous, frequently back-breaking work, thereby keeping a large swath of Britain’s food economy ticking over.

    But not for much longer, perhaps. In the latest survey by the Association of Labour Providers, 30% of agencies who supply workers to British food and agriculture businesses say they don’t expect to be able to source sufficient workers for the remainder of this summer’s peak picking period, and almost half say they will have problems in the busiest period before Christmas.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickers

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Man, I was just thinking that food prices haven't gone up enough lately.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Something something slackers on benefits something something flat screen TVs something something Jobcentre something something Daily Mail?

  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    It makes me so mad that an issue this complex was put to a referendum and the government have blindly gone along with it.

    Have any positives actually been out forward by the government?

  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    wrt to the fruit picking thing, i do think if your economic system can't function without poorly-paid immigrants doing back-breaking, monotonous labour you should probably get a better economic system

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    It makes me so mad that an issue this complex was put to a referendum and the government have blindly gone along with it.

    Have any positives actually been out forward by the government?

    The problem is that so many of the consequences are either positives or negatives depending on perspective and priorities.

    So, some view reduced immigration as positive in and of itself, even if this means shortages of key workers.

    Similarly, some regard EU regulation as necessarily bad (red tape!) because it is, in principle, easier for businesses to make money in a low regulation environment with consequently lower overheads. Though this means that the likelihood is that product standards will be lowered and consumer protection weakened.

    The ability of the UK to sign its own trade deals is a notional positive, but needs to be weighed in the context of whether it's likely that the UK will be able to achieve better deals independently than it will without the backing of one of the world's largest trading blocs.

    A mature conversation around this would take the form of "what do you want, and what are you willing to give up to achieve it?" Instead people talk past each other because leavers don't tend to recognise the consequences pointed out by remainers as negatives, and remainers don't understand why the things leavers want are considered positives.

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    wrt to the fruit picking thing, i do think if your economic system can't function without poorly-paid immigrants doing back-breaking, monotonous labour you should probably get a better economic system

    It's a tough thing organising seasonal labour in a high cost of living country - someone from a low cost of living area coming in temporarily is an okay solution, no one is really getting screwed if the pay is minimum wage.

    But a local can't do a minimum wage job for only 3 months a year and survive, whilst someone who lives somewhere cheap for the rest of year can. Ironically GBI would be good for this - locals could pick up extra cash in summer without worrying about how they're going to pay for housing in winter time.

  • TaerakTaerak Registered User regular
    Dis' wrote: »
    wrt to the fruit picking thing, i do think if your economic system can't function without poorly-paid immigrants doing back-breaking, monotonous labour you should probably get a better economic system

    It's a tough thing organising seasonal labour in a high cost of living country - someone from a low cost of living area coming in temporarily is an okay solution, no one is really getting screwed if the pay is minimum wage.

    But a local can't do a minimum wage job for only 3 months a year and survive, whilst someone who lives somewhere cheap for the rest of year can. Ironically GBI would be good for this - locals could pick up extra cash in summer without worrying about how they're going to pay for housing in winter time.

    What's GBI in this context?

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Taerak wrote: »
    Dis' wrote: »
    wrt to the fruit picking thing, i do think if your economic system can't function without poorly-paid immigrants doing back-breaking, monotonous labour you should probably get a better economic system

    It's a tough thing organising seasonal labour in a high cost of living country - someone from a low cost of living area coming in temporarily is an okay solution, no one is really getting screwed if the pay is minimum wage.

    But a local can't do a minimum wage job for only 3 months a year and survive, whilst someone who lives somewhere cheap for the rest of year can. Ironically GBI would be good for this - locals could pick up extra cash in summer without worrying about how they're going to pay for housing in winter time.

    What's GBI in this context?

    Guaranteed basic income. The government pays everyone a liveable wage regardless of employment status or other circumstances.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • TaerakTaerak Registered User regular
    Ah, I was confused because I've never seen "Guaranteed" in front of it! Thanks for that.

    I am wondering what the labour requirement in other countries is like - my aunt, for example, is 60, and every summer she spends some time picking apples at the local orchard. Is Britain unique in its reliance on immigrant labour to bring in the harvest? Because structurally, it seems like every western country has the same issue (stagnant wages requiring low food prices meaning the pay for the back-breaking labour isn't worth it.)

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Dis' wrote: »
    wrt to the fruit picking thing, i do think if your economic system can't function without poorly-paid immigrants doing back-breaking, monotonous labour you should probably get a better economic system

    It's a tough thing organising seasonal labour in a high cost of living country - someone from a low cost of living area coming in temporarily is an okay solution, no one is really getting screwed if the pay is minimum wage.

    But a local can't do a minimum wage job for only 3 months a year and survive, whilst someone who lives somewhere cheap for the rest of year can. Ironically GBI would be good for this - locals could pick up extra cash in summer without worrying about how they're going to pay for housing in winter time.

    The current welfare system is carefully set up to actively discourage people from taking part-time or short term employment.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Additionally, seasonal work tends to be concentrated in areas with low unemployment anyway - whoever does the work is going to be travelling and arranging temporary accommodation in any case

    There are only certain demographics willing/able to do that, plus if you're going to try to make a living doing it then you realistically need to be able to follow the harvest across the continent

    Edit: seasonal labour is actually a very good example of an area where a lot of policy is made on the basis of how uninvolved people think it operates

    japan on
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    It makes me so mad that an issue this complex was put to a referendum and the government have blindly gone along with it.

    Have any positives actually been out forward by the government?

    The problem is that so many of the consequences are either positives or negatives depending on perspective and priorities.

    So, some view reduced immigration as positive in and of itself, even if this means shortages of key workers.

    Similarly, some regard EU regulation as necessarily bad (red tape!) because it is, in principle, easier for businesses to make money in a low regulation environment with consequently lower overheads. Though this means that the likelihood is that product standards will be lowered and consumer protection weakened.

    The ability of the UK to sign its own trade deals is a notional positive, but needs to be weighed in the context of whether it's likely that the UK will be able to achieve better deals independently than it will without the backing of one of the world's largest trading blocs.

    A mature conversation around this would take the form of "what do you want, and what are you willing to give up to achieve it?" Instead people talk past each other because leavers don't tend to recognise the consequences pointed out by remainers as negatives, and remainers don't understand why the things leavers want are considered positives.

    Aye. Just put a price tag to "no freedom of movement" and then ask people if they want to pay it. Is not like Brexit doesn't have a reasonable chance to pass anyways on that hypotetical scenario. "Just lie back and think of kicking the browns, my dear".

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Taerak wrote: »
    Ah, I was confused because I've never seen "Guaranteed" in front of it! Thanks for that.

    I am wondering what the labour requirement in other countries is like - my aunt, for example, is 60, and every summer she spends some time picking apples at the local orchard. Is Britain unique in its reliance on immigrant labour to bring in the harvest? Because structurally, it seems like every western country has the same issue (stagnant wages requiring low food prices meaning the pay for the back-breaking labour isn't worth it.)

    Yeah as said elsewhere one of the problems is the unemployed tend not to live where the seasonal labour is required. I picked up seasonal farm work as a teenager...because my parents had affluent enough jobs they could live in the countryside and commute. I would not have been able to survive on it without that parental housing subsidy, and travel costs would have eaten away any profits.

    Western europe has 80%+ urbanisation rates whilst eastern and southern have a good 10% more people in their rural areas. Britain has shittier public transport for rural areas than most of western europe as well.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    It makes me so mad that an issue this complex was put to a referendum and the government have blindly gone along with it.

    Have any positives actually been out forward by the government?

    The problem is that so many of the consequences are either positives or negatives depending on perspective and priorities.

    So, some view reduced immigration as positive in and of itself, even if this means shortages of key workers.

    Similarly, some regard EU regulation as necessarily bad (red tape!) because it is, in principle, easier for businesses to make money in a low regulation environment with consequently lower overheads. Though this means that the likelihood is that product standards will be lowered and consumer protection weakened.

    The ability of the UK to sign its own trade deals is a notional positive, but needs to be weighed in the context of whether it's likely that the UK will be able to achieve better deals independently than it will without the backing of one of the world's largest trading blocs.

    A mature conversation around this would take the form of "what do you want, and what are you willing to give up to achieve it?" Instead people talk past each other because leavers don't tend to recognise the consequences pointed out by remainers as negatives, and remainers don't understand why the things leavers want are considered positives.

    I'm pretty sure Remainers understand exactly what Leavers want and why they want it. It's just they also understand that what they want is racist claptrap and they are often so disconnected from facts that they don't understand the consequences of that and live in a fantasy world or they just don't care because "keeping Britain pure" is worth any amount of misery for other people.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Taerak wrote: »
    Ah, I was confused because I've never seen "Guaranteed" in front of it! Thanks for that.

    I am wondering what the labour requirement in other countries is like - my aunt, for example, is 60, and every summer she spends some time picking apples at the local orchard. Is Britain unique in its reliance on immigrant labour to bring in the harvest? Because structurally, it seems like every western country has the same issue (stagnant wages requiring low food prices meaning the pay for the back-breaking labour isn't worth it.)

    No. North America does this too. It's very common in rich developed countries.

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    So when do the grownups say that Brexit is bad, and we won't be doing it?

    Honestly people weren't given enough information before the vote.

  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    So when do the grownups say that Brexit is bad, and we won't be doing it?

    Honestly people weren't given enough information before the vote.

    probably about 5 minutes after its too late to stop it.

  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    they were totally given enough information before the vote, people willingly ignored it. They "had enough of experts telling them what to do".

    Oh brilliant
This discussion has been closed.