[Defenders] of the Earth

Harry Dresden

SPOILERS for previous Netflix series Daredevil season 2, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swdvHavZdpM

The Defenders is finally here, on August 18th - Netflix lead up to this with two season of Daredevil, and a season each for Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and Luke Cage.

Meet the Defenders:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC7GPdBV9WQ

Daredevil/Matt Murdock (Charlie Cox):

Lawyer by day, super-hero by night Matt Murdock risks his life to save New York City from the criminal element at the cost of his own life and sanity.

Since defeating Kingpin in season 1, he's revealed his secret identity to Karen Page - his ex-girlfriend/former secretary of his law firm with Foggy Nelson. After season 2 he's gone into retirement from dealing with the stress being Daredevil has caused him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWHUjuJ8zxE

Jessica Jones (Krysten Ritter):

Cynical, alcoholic detective with super strength

who finally overcame her past as Killgrave's brainwashed "wife."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytkjQvSk2VA

Luke Cage/

Karl Lucas

(Mike Colter):

An ex-con with super strength and bulletproof skin who saved Harlem from gangsters and super-villains.

Former ex-boyfriend of Jessica Jones, who killed his first wife while she was brainwashed by Killgrave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OKL5no-S0

Iron Fist/Danny Rand (Finn Jones):

As a child his parents where killed in a plane crash, where he ended up being rescued by the peoples of K'un L'un and trained to be their ultimate warrior, as the Iron Fist.

He abandoned his duties to protect K'un Lun from the Hand, their arch-enemies, to reclaim his parents corporation and his birth right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cn3DVV0LHY

Elektra Natchios (Elodie Yung):

Matt's crazy, wealthy ex-girlfriend who returns in season 2.

What Matt didn't know is that she was recruited by the Chaste, an ancient organization at war with the Hand, and sent by Stick to recruit him for the coming war. She was eventually murdered by the Hand, and unknown to the heroes revived and in their control.

Stick (Scott Glenn):

Murdock's old, ninja mentor who is blind himself. Trained Matt how to "see" and in martial arts

for the purposes of creating a soldier for the Chaste's war with the Hand, which seems to be coming to a head with this show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdqW5V7K0z8

Alexandra (Sigourney Weaver):

A mysterious woman with ties to the Hand, who the Defenders must form a team to stop her destroying New York. May be possessed by Gozer the Gozerian.




Question: how do you all want the spoiler format, open or closed? I've found it usually better to spoiler with each episode listed so people don't get spoilt on later episodes accidentally.

Handgimp

yeah I like spoilers labeled with episode number.

Nobeard

HYYYYYYYPE! This gonna be gud.

SniperGuy

Please be as good as DD or Jessica Jones season 1. And not Luke Cake or Iron Fist season 1.

JimmyTSquirrel

This came out about 45 minutes ago I'm guessing this is going to be the final trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNwjRfSldM0

Looking good to me.

Harry Dresden

JimmyTSquirrel wrote: »

This came out about 45 minutes ago I'm guessing this is going to be the final trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNwjRfSldM0

Looking good to me.

Hollywood, give Weaver more villainous roles!

ObiFett

I am hype. I can't wait to see these four characters interact. Jessica and Luke's reactions, specifically, since they are the more down to earth types and DD and IF are a bit out there.

sullijo

Harry Dresden wrote: »

Alexandra (Sigourney Weaver):

A mysterious woman with ties to the Hand, Alexandra (Sigourney Weaver):

A mysterious woman with ties to the Hand, who the Defenders must form a team to stop her destroying New York. May be possessed by Gozer the Gozerian.

Now I'm gonna be disappointed if one of the Defenders doesn't punch her, wink at the camera, and say "Bustin' makes me feel good."

Kashaar

Press review of the first four episodes, free of specific spoilers but lays out some rough facts. Having read it I don't feel spoiled but ymmv:

http://decider.com/2017/07/24/netflix-marvels-the-defenders-review/amp/

My favorite bit of information/opinion from it:

The show gives Danny just as much side-eye as Tumblr did, and that finally makes the character work.

Nobeard

I've been thinking lately about where the characters can go after this. I know in the comics Danny and Luke became friends and started Heroes for Hire. I simply cannot see that happening with their Netflix versions.

Rhesus Positive

Kashaar wrote: »

Press review of the first four episodes, free of specific spoilers but lays out some rough facts. Having read it I don't feel spoiled but ymmv:

http://decider.com/2017/07/24/netflix-marvels-the-defenders-review/amp/

My favorite bit of information/opinion from it:

The show gives Danny just as much side-eye as Tumblr did, and that finally makes the character work.

That's good, considering

I skipped Iron Fist because I couldn't be bothered to watch another white saviour martial arts thing. It might be an unfair opinion of it, but I wasn't prepared to invest the time to find out.

Burnage

SniperGuy wrote: »

Please be as good as DD or Jessica Jones season 1. And not Luke Cake or Iron Fist season 1.

I was discussing Defenders with a friend, and he said he wasn't going to watch it because he hadn't seen Iron Fist yet. To which I said; look, there's a dude. He's got a fist. That's all the information you need.

Rhesus Positive

But is this fist made of iron, or does he have some kind of glove that Tony Stark made for him, or is it as strong as iron, in which case through magic, genetics, or a lab accident?

Also why has he only got one fist? Where is his other hand? Does he still have the hand but he can't clench it so he's like Iron Fist Plus Iron Palm, or is it Iron Fist Plus Flesh Fist?

Also is the iron fist only iron when it's a fist?

These answers and more can only be answered by a Netflix Original Miniseries

Tofystedeth

It's actually just a fist that removes wrinkles.

Kana

I've said this before in the Iron Fist thread, but one of my favorite historical people is Ida Pruitt, who was a white woman raised in rural China back in the late 1800s, whose first time in the US was going to university. So racially she was white, but she was bi-cultural with a closer identification with China than the west. So when she comes back to the US she has a really complex identity crisis. In China she had always been aware of her outsider status, even though she was raised in that culture and had unconsciously assumed a lot of it. Then she goes to America where she's finally treated like an insider by white folk... even as she's totally uncomfortable and unfamiliar with their food, manners, jokes, everything.

Obviously Iron Fist was always going to be first and foremost a kung fu show, but I was initially hoping it could explore some of those themes, the story setup for Iron Fist is perfect for it. Danny's going from being raised by warrior monks into a very 1980s Gordan Gecko Greed is Good style Rand Co., and he doesn't understand their worldview one bit, even though it's a heritage he thought he was eager to embrace and return to. And there's an interesting relationship to explore between Danny - the outsider who looks like an insider - and his new buddy Colleen Wing, who's the daughter of immigrants, is culturally more American, and in a reverse of Danny she engages with her culture's martial arts traditions as a way of maintaining a connection to her own family heritage. Like, just an Iron Fist show where Danny and Colleen spend a lot of time bullshitting and wandering around New York and occasionally getting into fights could have been really interesting!

The show doesn't actually succeed in raising like, any of those ideas at all, let alone actually examining them, but I do still think there's a decent Iron Fist show waiting to be made, a story that could actually have an interesting viewpoint on the immigrant experience, and Danny realizing how it's not his home that's changed, it's him.

Just as an example, iirc in the first episode before Danny goes into Rand corp Danny orders a new york hot dog, which he's all excited about because he's finally back home. The show just treats this as a bit of set dressing for Dany returning to New York. But think how much more interesting that scene could've been if he gets his deluxe dog, is super excited because it's something from his childhood that he hasn't had in years and years, and he bites into it and has to spit it out because it's disgusting to his warrior monk palate? That actually introduces Dany with an internal conflict, which will be expanded on when he gets his big fancy billionaire condo and is super uncomfortable there, and in turn why he would keep running off to Colleen's dojo, because it's a world that he actually understands and is comfortable in, even if it's kind of an American-ified version of it.

This is something that the best of the Marvel shows have been good at - Matt Murdoch approaches vigilantism like something between religious penance and an addiction, Jessica Jones is a brittle prickly tough lady exterior trying to hide how terrified she is of returning to her abuser. Both shows are very comfortable with the idea that their heroes are almost always going to win their fist fights, because they have other ways to put the character in risk. Unfortunately Iron Fist as a show is largely driven by external conflicts, with Dany's fighting skills wildly inconsistent depending on if the plot needs him to win or lose a fight, and his actual internal character having little to do with the show's direction.

If Defenders just responds to the problems of Iron Fist by treating Dany like a stupid dick (which, tbf, in Iron Fist he usually is), I guess that's one way of adapting to the fan response, but it'd be nice if they could actually salvage the character instead.

Uhh that got rambley but oh well. tl;dr: I think there's actually a lot of fertile ground to explore with a white guy Danny Rand that's not just white savior-ism.

Kashaar

They're good rambles, Brent.

Dracomicron

Tofystedeth wrote: »

It's actually just a fist that removes wrinkles.

It certainly has utility in the white washing process.

Nobeard

Do we know the precise time the show drops?

Henroid

Nobeard wrote: »

Do we know the precise time the show drops?

From what I remember on the Netflix countdown showing last week, it will be midnight east coast time, which means 9pm pacific.

Javen

Kana wrote: »

I've said this before in the Iron Fist thread, but one of my favorite historical people is Ida Pruitt, who was a white woman raised in rural China back in the late 1800s, whose first time in the US was going to university. So racially she was white, but she was bi-cultural with a closer identification with China than the west. So when she comes back to the US she has a really complex identity crisis. In China she had been always aware of her outsider status, even though she was raised in that culture and had unconsciously assumed a lot of it. Then she goes to America where she's finally treated like an insider by white folk... even as she's totally uncomfortable and unfamiliar with their food, manners, jokes, everything.

Obviously Iron Fist was always going to be first and foremost a kung fu show, but I was initially hoping it could explore some of those themes, the story setup for Iron Fist is perfect for it. Danny's going from being raised by warrior monks into a very 1980s Gordan Gecko Greed is Good style Rand Co., and he doesn't understand their worldview one bit, even though it's a heritage he thought he was eager to embrace and return to. And there's an interesting relationship to explore between Danny - the outsider who looks like an insider - and his new buddy Colleen Wing, who's the daughter of immigrants, is culturally more American, and the way she engages with her culture's martial arts traditions as a way of maintaining a connection to her own family heritage. Like, just an Iron Fist show where Danny and Colleen spend a lot of time bullshitting and wandering around New York and occasionally getting into fights could have been really interesting!

The show doesn't actually succeed in raising like, any of those ideas at all, let alone actually examining them, but I do still think there's a decent Iron Fist show waiting to be made, a story that could actually have an interesting viewpoint on the immigrant experience, and Danny realizing how it's not his home that's changed, it's him.

Just as an example, iirc in the first episode before Danny goes into Rand corp Danny orders a new york hot dog, which he's all excited about because he's finally back home. The show just treats this as a bit of set dressing for Dany returning to New York. But think how much more interesting that scene could've been if he gets his deluxe dog, is super excited because it's something from his childhood that he hasn't had in years and years, and he bites into it and has to spit it out because it's disgusting to his warrior monk palate? That actually introduces Dany with an internal conflict, which will be expanded on when he gets his big fancy billionaire condo and is super uncomfortable there, and in turn why he would keep running off to Colleen's dojo, because it's a world that he actually understands and is comfortable in, even if it's kind of an American-ified version of it.

This is something that the best of the Marvel shows have been good at - Matt Murdoch approaches vigilantism like something between religious penance and an addiction, Jessica Jones is a brittle prickly tough lady exterior trying to hide how terrified she is of returning to her abuser. Both shows are very comfortable with the idea that their heroes are almost always going to win their fist fights, because they have other ways to put the character in risk. Unfortunately Iron Fist as a show is largely driven by external conflicts, with Dany's fighting skills wildly inconsistent depending on if the plot needs him to win or lose a fight, and his actual internal character having little to do with the show's direction.

If Defenders just responds to the problems of Iron Fist by treating Dany like a stupid dick (which, tbf, in Iron Fist he usually is), I guess that's one way of adapting to the fan response, but it'd be nice if they could actually salvage the character instead.

Uhh that got rambley but oh well. tl;dr: I think there's actually a lot of fertile ground to explore with a white guy Danny Rand that's not just white savior-ism.

I haven't read a ton of Iron Fist comics, but from what I recall, Danny actually really likes trashy new york take out chinese food and pizza and hot dogs and stuff, so I imagine they might've been trying to keep to that aspect of his traditional character.

Tofystedeth

And then the only restaurant he knows to order takeout from is super fancy.

Local H Jay

I haven't watched Iron Fist either. I did give the first episode a shot but kinda never went back.

Time to do my "New Marvel Show" ritual of turning Netflix back on

Xeddicus

Henroid wrote: »

Nobeard wrote: »

Do we know the precise time the show drops?

From what I remember on the Netflix countdown showing last week, it will be midnight east coast time, which means 9pm pacific.

It's showing as midnight for the west coast too for me. 4 hours from now give or take.

Henroid

Xeddicus wrote: »

Henroid wrote: »

Nobeard wrote: »

Do we know the precise time the show drops?

From what I remember on the Netflix countdown showing last week, it will be midnight east coast time, which means 9pm pacific.

It's showing as midnight for the west coast too for me. 4 hours from now give or take.

Yeah it's a bit past 9pm and it's a no-go.

Damn it, I timed my Taco Bell grub grab poorly.

Harry Dresden

Javen wrote: »

I haven't read a ton of Iron Fist comics, but from what I recall, Danny actually really likes trashy new york take out chinese food and pizza and hot dogs and stuff, so I imagine they might've been trying to keep to that aspect of his traditional character.

Nope.

it's like the show runner read the comics and did everything in his power to do the exact opposite of his personality and skill set.

jammu

It's on!

ep 1 start

Fighting looks much better than in IF.
Danny is still an idiot.

Henroid

Episode 1, very early while they're still introducing the main cast.

Luke Cage

"People call me Foggy."
"And you let them?"
Legit cracked me up.

evilthecat

5 minutes in and I'm still hating Danny.
This is going to be a trial.

Kadoken

Only two episodes in, but it feels above Iron Fist and Luke Cage (which I appreciate now) in quality. Probably because Daredevil showrunners did it. Danny and Colleen are still a little weak although I like what they're doing with Danny so far.

I also immediately like the new villain so far. They're putting mystery and fear back into the Hand from the ninja hipster college shit they did with Iron Fist.

Henroid

Two episodes in, turning in for the night, but I like it and will like it even more as it goes forward.

KingofMadCows

Jessica Jones... so so sassy.

Ziggymon

Up to Episode 5, loving it so far.

evilthecat

oh ffs.

big bad boss shows up alone.
no one executes her.

WHHHHHY.

Fencingsax

So does it suck or what?

jdarksun

Fencingsax wrote: »

So does it suck or what?

Seems pretty decent so far, 2 episodes in. It's a slow burn. Weaver is real good.

KingofMadCows

Danny is much better and he has great chemistry with Luke Cage. They need to put them on the same show.

Matt is his broody self.

Jessica is the best.

Grislo

I'm just starting, and the opening few minutes are already kind of a chore. It's fast cuts and pointless slo-mo - it's action with zero excitement. I'd have preferred a title card that just said 'they fight' so we could move on. Can we get a cut of this that, like, skips all Iron Fist scenes?

I know that's a bit uncharitable, but this opening is probably the worst possible way they could have started, for me personally.

Fingers crossed, though, and I'll give it a few episodes, and a somewhat open mind.

lwt1973

KingofMadCows wrote: »

Danny is much better and he has great chemistry with Luke Cage. They need to put them on the same show.

I'm just throwing this out there but they could name it Heroes for Hire.

Coinage

Grislo wrote: »

I'm just starting, and the opening few minutes are already kind of a chore. It's fast cuts and pointless slo-mo - it's action with zero excitement. I'd have preferred a title card that just said 'they fight' so we could move on. Can we get a cut of this that, like, skips all Iron Fist scenes?

I know that's a bit uncharitable, but this opening is probably the worst possible way they could have started, for me personally.

Fingers crossed, though, and I'll give it a few episodes, and a somewhat open mind.

Yeah it just makes Danny look like a fuckup, especially compared to opening sequences of the other characters, I'm not sure why they opened with it either.

Harry Dresden

Coinage wrote: »

Grislo wrote: »

I'm just starting, and the opening few minutes are already kind of a chore. It's fast cuts and pointless slo-mo - it's action with zero excitement. I'd have preferred a title card that just said 'they fight' so we could move on. Can we get a cut of this that, like, skips all Iron Fist scenes?

I know that's a bit uncharitable, but this opening is probably the worst possible way they could have started, for me personally.

Fingers crossed, though, and I'll give it a few episodes, and a somewhat open mind.

Yeah it just makes Danny look like a fuckup, especially compared to opening sequences of the other characters, I'm not sure why they opened with it either.

To be fair he was doing incredibly well compared to what he was doing on his own show.

Ep 1

He held his own fairly ok with, I want to say the woman is...Elektra? She only "won" by outwitting him, and striking before he could protect the guy then bounced once he got her with the Iron Fist. Looks fairly reasonable for both characters to me.

The shot of Cambodia was authentic looking, as well.

I agree they spent wayyyyy to long on the silent fighting, the show didn't really get going until dialogue finally was introduced, then it felt a natural rhythm.

Colleen continues to steal the spotlight from Danny. lol

Jessica's intro screen with Hellcat was fantastic, as if it was ripped from JJ's own series. Impressive.

jdarksun

Harry Dresden wrote: »

Coinage wrote: »

Grislo wrote: »

I'm just starting, and the opening few minutes are already kind of a chore. It's fast cuts and pointless slo-mo - it's action with zero excitement. I'd have preferred a title card that just said 'they fight' so we could move on. Can we get a cut of this that, like, skips all Iron Fist scenes?

I know that's a bit uncharitable, but this opening is probably the worst possible way they could have started, for me personally.

Fingers crossed, though, and I'll give it a few episodes, and a somewhat open mind.

Yeah it just makes Danny look like a fuckup, especially compared to opening sequences of the other characters, I'm not sure why they opened with it either.

To be fair he was doing incredibly well compared to what he was doing on his own show.

Ep 1

He held his own fairly ok with, I want to say the woman is...Elektra? She only "won" by outwitting him, and striking before he could protect the guy then bounced once he got her with the Iron Fist. Looks fairly reasonable for both characters to me.

The shot of Cambodia was authentic looking, as well.

I agree they spent wayyyyy to long on the silent fighting, the show didn't really get going until dialogue finally was introduced, then it felt a natural rhythm.

Colleen continues to steal the spotlight from Danny. lol

Jessica's intro screen with Hellcat was fantastic, as if it was ripped from JJ's own series. Impressive.

Episode 1 Spoilers

They worked really hard to tie together the thematic presentation of the four separate shows into this one.