Come on, man
Please tell me what you felt were its virtues
It finishes the story via the Oracle's prophecy in the first film (and thus fully realizes Neo as a Leonidus-like character).
It establishes that the machines and programs are a sort of divine beings (which I find fascinating).
It has a sweet mech fight scene.
The final fight is, as has been mentioned, DBZ as all hell.
Basically I love the entire trilogy, so I love its resolution.
I think my issue was that while all this is fun and nice window dressing, it lacks the originals simple core, exemplified by Cypher and his betrayal, and Trinity and Neo's love. Ie, do you chose to live in a fantasy land and ignore reality, or do you embrace reality with all its challenges but higher highs (genuine love exemplified with Trinity). And frankly why this worked is because the film explored them in simple, but evocative ways. So they arent exactly complex ideas, theyre just really great as a spine for a thrilling action film. Everything that was interesting or exciting or new about the world was covered comprehensively, and economically, by the original
The sequels didnt have an emotional core. They didnt have characters that developed or went through any emotional arc or changes. It was all lore and prophecies and trite philosophical ramblings which were themselves utterly theoretical. None of the characters embodied any philosophy, or challenged or explored it, they just occasionally talked to an NPC who would outline the philosophy and then the film would just move on.
They definitely had those things
they had the bones of them, the husks of the ideas which had been thoroughly plumed in the original. They had lip service (endless lip service), but nothing compelling or grounded in the characters as people. Neo fulfills the prophecy at the end of the first matrix film, by becoming "the one". Thats all we needed to know about that fucking dumbass prophecy, we didnt need to see him fulfilling all the ancillary prophecies and the complete Silmarillion outline of what he then does.
The "prophecy" in the original was only interesting in terms of how people reacted to it and were affected by their belief in it. Once it becomes obvious that its true (ie, the end of the first film), the rest of the nonsense wrinkles and rubs in the sequels is just empty filler. The entire storyline of the matrix universe reached its appropriate thematic and emotional conclusion when Morpheus' faith in the prophecy paid off and neo became the one, and Trinity's belief in her own feelings about Neo was confirmed (even as he died, she knew he was the one because she had fallen in love with him, she trusted her heart more than fate).
Confronting reality was proven better than denying it with the Cypher story.
Thats it. Thats all thats interesting about the matrix in terms of emotional resonance.
These arent deep or compelling philosophical musings, they are simple ideas about love, trust, belief and faith. They worked because they were framed within inventive and fresh action sequences and hinted (HINTED) at broader ideas
What do the sequels tell us that the original matrix does not? Thematically or emotionally? The sequels dont build on, challenge or even explore the conclusions of the original. They are superfluous babble, self contradicting nonsense with no point other than to ramble on academically about the ideas the first film already encapsulated.
Come on, man
Please tell me what you felt were its virtues
It finishes the story via the Oracle's prophecy in the first film (and thus fully realizes Neo as a Leonidus-like character).
It establishes that the machines and programs are a sort of divine beings (which I find fascinating).
It has a sweet mech fight scene.
The final fight is, as has been mentioned, DBZ as all hell.
Basically I love the entire trilogy, so I love its resolution.
I think my issue was that while all this is fun and nice window dressing, it lacks the originals simple core, exemplified by Cypher and his betrayal, and Trinity and Neo's love. Ie, do you chose to live in a fantasy land and ignore reality, or do you embrace reality with all its challenges but higher highs (genuine love exemplified with Trinity). And frankly why this worked is because the film explored them in simple, but evocative ways. So they arent exactly complex ideas, theyre just really great as a spine for a thrilling action film. Everything that was interesting or exciting or new about the world was covered comprehensively, and economically, by the original
The sequels didnt have an emotional core. They didnt have characters that developed or went through any emotional arc or changes. It was all lore and prophecies and trite philosophical ramblings which were themselves utterly theoretical. None of the characters embodied any philosophy, or challenged or explored it, they just occasionally talked to an NPC who would outline the philosophy and then the film would just move on.
They definitely had those things
they had the bones of them, the husks of the ideas which had been thoroughly plumed in the original. They had lip service (endless lip service), but nothing compelling or grounded in the characters as people. Neo fulfills the prophecy at the end of the first matrix film, by becoming "the one". Thats all we needed to know about that fucking dumbass prophecy, we didnt need to see him fulfilling all the ancillary prophecies and the complete Silmarillion outline of what he then does.
The "prophecy" in the original was only interesting in terms of how people reacted to it and were affected by their belief in it. Once it becomes obvious that its true (ie, the end of the first film), the rest of the nonsense wrinkles and rubs in the sequels is just empty filler. The entire storyline of the matrix universe reached its appropriate thematic and emotional conclusion when Morpheus' faith in the prophecy paid off and neo became the one, and Trinity's belief in her own feelings about Neo was confirmed (even as he died, she knew he was the one because she had fallen in love with him, she trusted her heart more than fate).
Confronting reality was proven better than denying it with the Cypher story.
Thats it. Thats all thats interesting about the matrix in terms of emotional resonance.
These arent deep or compelling philosophical musings, they are simple ideas about love, trust, belief and faith. They worked because they were framed within inventive and fresh action sequences and hinted (HINTED) at broader ideas
What do the sequels tell us that the original matrix does not? Thematically or emotionally? The sequels dont build on, challenge or even explore the conclusions of the original. They are superfluous babble, self contradicting nonsense with no point other than to ramble on academically about the ideas the first film already encapsulated.
but i like the architect scene at the end of reloaded
watch it again. Ergo its terrible
I realise im being a bit of a shitstain in this thread, I apologise. I love some of the action and the broader world and lore stuff in the sequels (im all for traditional monsters like vampires being viruses), im being far too black and white in some of my posts. The obvious preface to all of them is "in my opinion you are wrong"
I think the closest the sequels got to recapturing what i liked about the original was when at the end of the smith vs neo fight in 3 and smith is just furious and exasperated by Neo's refusal to quit. It was a simple little line about choice that was fun and had some bite to it which the sequels utterly lacked in their endless "lets have a sit down and talk about ergos and frenchie orgasm chocolate for 8 minutes" scenes
Prohass on
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I really like the fight scene in reloaded when they're just running along the top of trucks on the highway doing awesome shit for like 20 minutes. That's what I'm watching the matrix for, and reloaded does it best ergo reloaded is the best.
My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
I really like the fight scene in reloaded when they're just running along the top of trucks on the highway doing awesome shit for like 20 minutes. That's what I'm watching the matrix for, and reloaded does it best ergo reloaded is the best.
I remember when I first watched that scene I had a distinct moment of "wait, why is this happening again?" about halfway through, something about a keymaster?
@Prohass, a quaint question, you believe Neo is the one as foretold in the prophecy?
Because I don't.
the point is who cares. At the end of the original Morpheus' faith is rewarded, and Trinity's trust in her own feelings is rewarded too. Neo's threat over the phone to the machines is more thrilling and satisfying than the 4 hours of punching in the sequels.
Like yeah in the end its all cycles and machines are the gods and maybe Neo isnt the one. Its all interesting in an abstract sense. But it doesnt really make for a compelling movie to me. When you get to a certain level of abstract philosophy you start to lose why people gave a shit in the first place
Wait is this one of those things where the prophecy is technically about Smith, who is the actual remainder/anomoly that actually destroys the Matrix, and the purpose of The One is to both herald the coming of the prophecy and also help stop it?
Wait is this one of those things where the prophecy is technically about Smith, who is the actual remainder/anomoly that actually destroys the Matrix, and the purpose of The One is to both herald the coming of the prophecy and also help stop it?
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
The Matrix
I just watched the Matrix trilogy last week and boy the 2nd and 3rd movies were shitshows.
Thing is, I'm not ashamed to admit that some of the individual pieces / concepts they used were great. Things like the idea of software / AI admins going 'rogue' for some reason or another, or seeing the more physical world activity of the machines. They just either get executed poorly or even if I like it, it's not enough to make the movies better.
Prohass, a quaint question, you believe Neo is the one as foretold in the prophecy?
Because I don't.
Well who the fuck is, alternate question, why did there even have to be a prophecy
The prophecy is a construct built by the machines to lead the One to the white room. Neo needs to get to the white room so that he can be presented with a choice. Presumably they go with a prophecy instead of simpler methods so that no human is ever shown what Neo is shown.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
The Matrix Revolutions
I like Revolutions because the philosophy was always the most boring part of the trilogy for me, just give me the shooty fighty and the crazy gigeresque art direction
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I like Revolutions because the philosophy was always the most boring part of the trilogy for me, just give me the shooty fighty and the crazy gigeresque art direction
Just watch Goku and Vegeta fight. Either their first or the one during the Buu saga.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
The Matrix Revolutions
I don't watch anime
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Posts
let me tell you about berserk
We went far less time between two different Spider-Man reboots
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
It is indeed in talks
they had the bones of them, the husks of the ideas which had been thoroughly plumed in the original. They had lip service (endless lip service), but nothing compelling or grounded in the characters as people. Neo fulfills the prophecy at the end of the first matrix film, by becoming "the one". Thats all we needed to know about that fucking dumbass prophecy, we didnt need to see him fulfilling all the ancillary prophecies and the complete Silmarillion outline of what he then does.
The "prophecy" in the original was only interesting in terms of how people reacted to it and were affected by their belief in it. Once it becomes obvious that its true (ie, the end of the first film), the rest of the nonsense wrinkles and rubs in the sequels is just empty filler. The entire storyline of the matrix universe reached its appropriate thematic and emotional conclusion when Morpheus' faith in the prophecy paid off and neo became the one, and Trinity's belief in her own feelings about Neo was confirmed (even as he died, she knew he was the one because she had fallen in love with him, she trusted her heart more than fate).
Confronting reality was proven better than denying it with the Cypher story.
Thats it. Thats all thats interesting about the matrix in terms of emotional resonance.
These arent deep or compelling philosophical musings, they are simple ideas about love, trust, belief and faith. They worked because they were framed within inventive and fresh action sequences and hinted (HINTED) at broader ideas
What do the sequels tell us that the original matrix does not? Thematically or emotionally? The sequels dont build on, challenge or even explore the conclusions of the original. They are superfluous babble, self contradicting nonsense with no point other than to ramble on academically about the ideas the first film already encapsulated.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
but i like the architect scene at the end of reloaded
http://www.audioentropy.com/
you have to realize the truth
there is no hot dog
Yeah they do
watch it again. Ergo its terrible
I realise im being a bit of a shitstain in this thread, I apologise. I love some of the action and the broader world and lore stuff in the sequels (im all for traditional monsters like vampires being viruses), im being far too black and white in some of my posts. The obvious preface to all of them is "in my opinion you are wrong"
@Tox, we shall hold down this fort.
???????????
Because I don't.
I remember when I first watched that scene I had a distinct moment of "wait, why is this happening again?" about halfway through, something about a keymaster?
Bwwwwwah?!
Well who the fuck is, alternate question, why did there even have to be a prophecy
Jimmy dean.....
the point is who cares. At the end of the original Morpheus' faith is rewarded, and Trinity's trust in her own feelings is rewarded too. Neo's threat over the phone to the machines is more thrilling and satisfying than the 4 hours of punching in the sequels.
Like yeah in the end its all cycles and machines are the gods and maybe Neo isnt the one. Its all interesting in an abstract sense. But it doesnt really make for a compelling movie to me. When you get to a certain level of abstract philosophy you start to lose why people gave a shit in the first place
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_decoy_(model)
The first part, yeah.
The second part... Maybe?
There must be a prophecy so that someone can fulfill it
Prophecy calls the hero to action
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
I'm surprised no one made a music video out of them
Thing is, I'm not ashamed to admit that some of the individual pieces / concepts they used were great. Things like the idea of software / AI admins going 'rogue' for some reason or another, or seeing the more physical world activity of the machines. They just either get executed poorly or even if I like it, it's not enough to make the movies better.
The prophecy is a construct built by the machines to lead the One to the white room. Neo needs to get to the white room so that he can be presented with a choice. Presumably they go with a prophecy instead of simpler methods so that no human is ever shown what Neo is shown.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades