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Teaching preteens (or how to keep young narcissists from wrecking your classroom)
DisruptedCapitalist
I swear!Registered User regular
I swear!Registered User regular
I have a question for the teachers here: @Jedoc @Oghulk @timspork's ghost @Zonugal (any others?)
So recently I joined up with a group teaching extra-curricular as an after-school program. These generally are on fun tech topics such as "video game design" or "3d printing" among others. The idea is to expose kids in the 8-12 age range to STEM ideas and concepts in a fun low-key sort of way. Most of the kids want to be there since it's an optional program and parents pay for it outside the public schools, in fact it's often at community centers or religious centers.
So I was surprised when I started my new class this Fall to find out some of the kids didn't want to be there. They were largely disruptive and not the least bit interested in the topic. My first class was a disaster with the few disruptors totally ruining the experience of the other kids in the class who were trying to ignore the shouting, chair flinging, and rough housing. Unfortunately I don't have the option to expel them or ask them to leave the class--their parents paid for them to be there and the class only meets once a week for seven weeks. I'd imagine if I was their regular teacher I could probably develop some kind of daily discipline to keep them under control but since I see them so infrequently I don't have that opportunity.
So what do you guys do to maintain order in your classroom?
Much to my dismay, my daughter recently told me that this is also happening in her 4th grade class. Her teacher is fairly young and it seems like she's been overwhelmed with 4 or 5 troublemakers since school started. My daughter tells me often the entire class is punished for the actions of the few and she's missed out on several fun events at the library because of these problems.
So now I'm just worried, what chance do I have in getting things under control when someone with a degree in teaching can't even do it?
So recently I joined up with a group teaching extra-curricular as an after-school program. These generally are on fun tech topics such as "video game design" or "3d printing" among others. The idea is to expose kids in the 8-12 age range to STEM ideas and concepts in a fun low-key sort of way. Most of the kids want to be there since it's an optional program and parents pay for it outside the public schools, in fact it's often at community centers or religious centers.
So I was surprised when I started my new class this Fall to find out some of the kids didn't want to be there. They were largely disruptive and not the least bit interested in the topic. My first class was a disaster with the few disruptors totally ruining the experience of the other kids in the class who were trying to ignore the shouting, chair flinging, and rough housing. Unfortunately I don't have the option to expel them or ask them to leave the class--their parents paid for them to be there and the class only meets once a week for seven weeks. I'd imagine if I was their regular teacher I could probably develop some kind of daily discipline to keep them under control but since I see them so infrequently I don't have that opportunity.
So what do you guys do to maintain order in your classroom?
Much to my dismay, my daughter recently told me that this is also happening in her 4th grade class. Her teacher is fairly young and it seems like she's been overwhelmed with 4 or 5 troublemakers since school started. My daughter tells me often the entire class is punished for the actions of the few and she's missed out on several fun events at the library because of these problems.
So now I'm just worried, what chance do I have in getting things under control when someone with a degree in teaching can't even do it?
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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After all, if the experience is ruined for the majority of students, nobody will pay next time.
whenever I start a new semester I always give them the spiel that I don't take attendance for lectures but then explain that each lecture is worth so many dollars and people who show up do better on everything.
This. The parents of the good kids are also paying customers, and there's more of them
Yup. It should be pretty easy to either get them to shape up or removed.
Hope you have a good turn around with the classes!
As for kids being disruptive, it's an after-school program and there are not enough adults to 1-on-1 with the kids, so I'll give a kid a few chances to refocus on our activity for the day but if they refuse to do so then I let them know that they are only hurting themselves and I'll direct more of my attention to the kids who want to be there.
this is good advice and it usually works
i'm a teacher at a boys' highschool (grades 7 - 12, so generally a bit older) and my first step would be to set the group up with a particularly fun / engaging task and then pull the troublemakers aside - out of earshot, either as a group, or, preferably, as individuals - at the start of it, so they feel like they're missing out, to ask them earnestly why they're here. burden them with the responsibility of their parent's money and everyone's time. you can follow this up with a veiled threat about finding out what you need to do to get them kicked out, or even just talking to their parents about whether the course is right for them, but that might not even be necessary.
confidence with dealing with bad behaviour moment-to-moment takes time, but separating the bad kids physically / making them sit close to you, or in a separate space alone, is something you have to be comfortable doing. names are vital. you need to learn and use their names so they know they're being personally held accountable for their actions. if you don't know their names, this is what you do first when you pull them aside. "what's your name?" is an intimidating question to a kid who knows he's been acting like an idiot
lastly, you can never separate behaviour from lesson design. are you sure the content is pitched at the right level? do you have much flexibility to differentiate what you teach to students who have less foundational knowledge? i empathise with you if you've been put in the spot of teaching difficult stuff to kids who aren't ready for it, but it's the teacher's lot to decide how much of their own time they're willing to spend creating and locating resources in that sweet spot to make showtime a bit easier and more productive. because there's never a one-size fits all course, especially with kids in a range of ages
But was triggered by this: I had many teachers like this and they were never good at actually teaching anything and they had instilled me with the idea that it did not actually matter what I did in school. I would get punished for being disruptive when a bully behind me was kicking my chair or would be treated the same as the rest of my class because a teacher did not want to differentiate between students in their classroom. It was one of the most demotivating experiences in my life (which includes job hunting during a financial crisis). It made me disinterested in taking part in extracurricular activities, and it took me years to apply myself properly to my studies again.
I recommend that you keep a close eye on this, and bring this up with your kid's school as soon as possible. A teacher who acts like this is bad for your daughter's development.
I'm pretty sure this is within their range. I had taught the same course at a different location over the summer with eight students and they were able to handle it just fine (and they were well-behaved too!) I'm going over a lot of basic computer skills like CTRL + C for copying and CTRL + V for pasting in the software that we're using so most of them are able to keep up with me. Though there was some difficulty the first week of the summer program where many of them had no idea on how to use a mouse--that surprised me at first until I realized many of them have grown up with touch screens.
In this current class, I suspect you're on to something that the troublemakers might be having more difficulty following along than the rest. I think your suggestion that I have them sit with me might be a good idea since the class is a "follow along" creation class anyway.
Agreed, it reminded me of my childhood too. I had no idea it was a problem until my daughter overheard me complaining to my wife about my own situation and told me about her problems. My suspicion is that it's not the teachers fault since this is not the first time the school administration has placed my daughter into a class because they want her to be a "model student" for troubled students. The only difference is that this year, the teacher doesn't seem to have any assistants in the classroom like previous teachers did.
My wife and I plan on writing an email to the teacher and see if we can meet one-on-one to find out what's going on with the classroom. If we can't get any solution we'll go to the Principal, but, of course, the Principal is new this year too and I have no idea how responsive she will be either or whether she'll just dump the blame on the teacher instead of trying to work on a solution. I'll keep this thread updated as we try to solve this.
There's definitely one kid in the class who has leaped ahead of everyone else, though his energy seems to be more productive instead of destructive (he goes above and beyond what I'm demonstrating and makes his own designs). Honestly I wish I could just focus on him and show him all the more advanced stuff because I'd love to see what he can do, but I have to make sure the rest of the kids get taught first.
It worked better this time: I set up assigned seating and made sure the trouble makers were separated and I pulled them aside separately when they inevitably started acting up. I still managed (somehow) to swoop back in and help out the other kids and I feel like we actually made some progress this week. In particular one girl came in and said to me at the get-go, "I can't do this, I don't know what I'm doing!" I told her she'd do fine, and sure enough at the end of the class she was telling me, "this is so cool!" So yay for +1 teaching!
I also found out afterwards during a staff meeting that one of the kids who was causing so much trouble has a disability that makes it hard for him to pay attention (oh, so that's why he was carrying to many fidget toys...) But I still feel I had some success with him because I actually had his attention for a good ten minutes or so on the topic before he drifted off again. Plus he wasn't disrupting the other students this time, so I'll count that as a success. I've also identified the students who have a strong grasp of the material (including the one I mentioned above), and I think I'll pair them up next week so they can inspire the kids who struggle.
Phew! It's quite an adrenaline high, I went home that night bouncing all around; my wife was laughing at me because it's not often I get so pumped about any project.
Also, as you get to know your students and work with them these issues will get better. The classes I have on day one are nothing like the classes I have at the end of the semester.
Your statement about your daughter being moved into a class to serve as a role model for troubled students is disconcerting. I cannot imagine requesting a student into my classroom to serve as a roll model. I have a student assistant in my CS class this year as I have triple the students this year, but she is a senior and receiving education leadership credits not taking the class.
While not related to the advice I'd give you it's an excuse to post it again in a teaching thread.