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[Sexual Misconduct & Power Abuse]: Harvey Weinstein and Other Jerks in High Places

AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
So there's been a recent wave of sexual harassment/sexual assault allegations against producer and Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein, but this is part of larger pattern both within the film industry and without. I could list a bunch of names here but we all know them. Producers, comedians, actors, tech leaders, politicians, and don't forget the Catholic Church--seems like any community even remotely insular where power is at all concentrated ends up with this problem.

This about sums up the current problem. As someone put it on Twitter, "What did Seth McFarlane know and why did he make this joke? Why did they all laugh?"



For powerful captains of industry who are trying not to get swept up in this tidal wave of people calling jerks out on shit, here's a handy guide on how not to harass women, courtesy its namesake:



The Rock is one of 538's current leading candidates for President in 2020, and also an actor.

For everyone else:

Is the tide actually turning here, now that more accusations seem to be coming to light? Or is it not turning at all, given our current President? Or is it not turning fast enough, given that even the actors and actresses coming out with their own stories in solidarity are too afraid of harming their careers to name names? What up with this tide, y'all.

Also, what can we do to help prevent sexual harassment and assault in these communities, from inside and from without? These people by definition escape punishment--Harvey Weinstein's big loss is that he's being ejected from a company that bears his name, which is the first part of any Batman story. He'll be fine. Do we need new laws (longer statutes of limitation)? New cultural movements? Or is progress inevitable and we should just to wait for people like Harvey to die off?

Things we are not doing here:

1. Defending sexual misconduct
2. Defending defending sexual misconduct
3. Blaming victims
4. Outing victims
5. Advocating violence against anybody
6. Talking about Trump in any specific way because we already have 90 threads for that
7. [anything else mods decree verboten in the course of this thread]



Debate and/or discourse GO! Let's try not to get this one locked, please.

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Posts

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    If the actresses and actors victimized name names, they will surely get sued. They are only safe when a lot of them name a name at once, as is happening with Weinstein. He can't sue them all. There needs to be some way of helping victims of powerful men find each other. Safety in numbers.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    That Seth McFarlane clip sure is something in hindsight. Everyone is laughing and he's just staring at the camera like it's absolutely not a joke and Emma Stone is trying to keep smiling no matter what. Christ.

    shryke on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    I think it's less about getting sued and more about getting blacklisted in the industry.

    Either way, it's very sad.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    That Seth Meyers clip sure is something in hindsight. Everyone is laughing and he's just staring at the camera like it's absolutely not a joke and Emma Stone is trying to keep smiling no matter what. Christ.

    *cough* McFarlane *cough*

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  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    The only way to change the system is for the people in power to relent. If you're guilty of sexual assault, stop. If you're rightfully accused, resign. If you're not doing this you have to stop protecting the people who are--and start protecting the victims. That means powerful people saying "If you were assaulted there's still a job for you here" and saying that in enough numbers that the blacklisting that enforces the silence can be thwarted.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    shryke wrote: »
    That Seth McFarlane clip sure is something in hindsight. Everyone is laughing and he's just staring at the camera like it's absolutely not a joke and Emma Stone is trying to keep smiling no matter what. Christ.

    At least according to TMZ, it wasn't a joke (at least not for McFarlane). He couched it in one to make it palatable, I guess: http://www.tmz.com/2017/10/11/seth-macfarlane-harvey-weinstein-joke-jessica-barth-oscars/

    [TMZ may have weird NSFW shit on it, I guess? I don't navigate there often. Forewarned.]

    Drez on
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    So, without offering a value judgement, my limited but growing experience with local media & politics has shown me that this is a pretty nasty problem... but for a variety of practical reasons, one that people prefer to be kept behind closed doors. Including the victims.

    Seth's jab at Weinstein is something I see a lot. It also came out during the Ghomeshi trial - people saying that the person in question had a reputation, and so they would steer their own friends / family away from them.

    But you don't try to drag it out into the legal sphere, because doing so opens-up your own private life to scrutiny, disrupts career opportunities and kills important relationships.


    That's fucked-up, but it is a reality of both political & media careers: knowing people & getting along with people does more to advance your position than anything else, and by that same token, fucking-up a relationship with someone higher up the ladder will screw your opportunities more than any other mistake.

    Sorting-out the problem of harassment & assault in these fields is going to be necessarily entangled with hammering down institutional power structures & enforcing policy that demands blind selection of talent for career retention / advancement.

    With Love and Courage
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Didn't we have a Missing Stair thread that kind of talked about exactly what happened here...from like a week or two ago?

    Nobeardmysticjuicer
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    I think it's less about getting sued and more about getting blacklisted in the industry.

    Either way, it's very sad.

    But then, burned out and failed actresses and actors could say what they like. And they don't. Even if they are now teaching drama in Milwaukee.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
    Drez wrote: »
    Didn't we have a Missing Stair thread that kind of talked about exactly what happened here...from like a week or two ago?

    Yes, and? Post under this OPs topic, no need to mention previous threads.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I think there are a few factors that contribute to Hollywood being a particularly toxic environment.

    First, there is probably something of a "trophy factor" here, something that doesn't exist in other industries. Saying you grabbed Emma Stone's ass is going to be more impressive to your dirtbag peers than saying you groped Sally in accounting.

    Second, there's a requirement of socialization. Most places are going to have work events, but not to the same extent as in Hollywood. If you're an up and coming actor, you are basically obligated to attend parties full of drugs and horny, crusty bigwigs with boundary issues, and you are further obligated to be super nice to them in hopes they give you a break.

    Third, Hollywood is pretty unparalleled in its incestuous consolidation of power. The same handful of dudes are behind almost every significant film, which makes blacklisting a particularly nasty reality. When someone says you'll never work in this town again, they can legit make it happen.

    Fourth, it's very easy for predators to couch their sleazy behavior in demands that are more ostensibly plausible. If you're casting a character who's sexy and aggressive, you can more easily get away with telling your prospective star to do sexy, aggressive things. We all know the tale of Megan Fox and her audition for Michael Bay, and that is something you absolutely couldn't get away with in another industry. "Okay miss, I need you to sexy-wash my car" would be a non-starter.

    All of these factors combine to make an environment that is toxic as hell, lets predators hide in plain sight, and allows them to watch each other's backs. And I don't think we can do much legislatively, because all this sexual assault and harassment is already illegal.

    I believe Astaereth has the right of it - it's a matter of forcing those in power too be accountable. It's a matter of the people who know about this stuff speaking out in backing up the victims, making sure the victims feel safe in coming forward. Hopefully the Weinstein story has legs, and leads to more people coming forward. Because that's the only way we're going to see change.

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    I make tweet.
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  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    I think it's less about getting sued and more about getting blacklisted in the industry.

    Either way, it's very sad.

    But then, burned out and failed actresses and actors could say what they like. And they don't. Even if they are now teaching drama in Milwaukee.

    I imagine it's a mix of people who are still trying to network their way in/back in and those who assume that their word wouldn't be taken seriously. It would be brushed off as a failed actor just trying to lash out at an industry they couldn't make it in.

    DrezshrykeFencingsaxBlackDragon480Elvenshae
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Didn't we have a Missing Stair thread that kind of talked about exactly what happened here...from like a week or two ago?

    Yes, and? Post under this OPs topic, no need to mention previous threads.

    Hmm, sorry, I wasn’t trying to drag that thread up. I worded my post poorly; I couldn’t find that thread initially (did not know it was closed) and was really just asking if this was an example of that concept but I wasn’t very clear.

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    The "missing stair" is the problem everybody in the community knows about but nobody bothers to fix, because if you know about it you know to step over it. So it's not a problem, except for newcomers who don't get warned. And the fact that the stair is sentient and can seek out victims, and round about here the metaphor breaks down.

    I don't know if it entirely applies here.

    There are for sure people who knew about Weinstein and didn't really say anything. There are probably people who didn't know*. But most people in Hollywood do seem to understand that their industry comes with a certain amount of this bullshit and that it's just the price of working at the dream factory, so to speak. It's less the missing stair and more like everybody knows the front steps to the only entrance are random-spiked worse than a Mario boss castle.

    *everybody in the world seems to have known that Weinstein was a titanic asshole (to the point where Tropic Thunder made fun of it). I think one thing that's clear is that assholeishness has a strong correlation with worse, secret misconduct. Garbage people are garbage all the way through, and that should make people more wary of tolerating terrible social behavior in leaders.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    Drez wrote: »
    I think it's less about getting sued and more about getting blacklisted in the industry.

    Either way, it's very sad.

    But then, burned out and failed actresses and actors could say what they like. And they don't. Even if they are now teaching drama in Milwaukee.

    I still don’t agree that fear of being sued is a primary motivator here.

    I was at a party this weekend which included some producers and actors and this was a hot topic. I mean, small sample size, but they confirmed what I already thought: being blacklisted (at least according to this admittedly small group of industry folk) is the reason most people in the industry don’t initially speak out, but then when one person does it’s a domino effect. First because, quite frankly, when a person in power abuses their power it’s never a one-off situation. It seems unlikely that someone in power who engages in sexual harassment does it only once. It almost always seems to lead to serial abuse. Second, because there’s safety in numbers.

    edit: The reason I think this is relevant is because being blacklisted is something specific to this industry. Being sued for libel/slander/whatever is not. So that’s almost a different discussion. It’s important to understand the basis of the chilling effect because it’s a part of the underlying problem. Weinstein being able to threaten blacklisting is very relevant. Anyone can fear being sued for any number of reasons in a variety of situations, but this is a different monster.

    Drez on
    CelestialBadger
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie This is NOT normalRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    That Seth McFarlane clip sure is something in hindsight. Everyone is laughing and he's just staring at the camera like it's absolutely not a joke and Emma Stone is trying to keep smiling no matter what. Christ.

    It wasn't just that joke either. I've seen a clip of 30 Rock where a female character says "Nobody in Hollywood scares me. I've turned down sex with Harvey Weinstein three times. Out of five."

    That's the same show that had a character call someone up and pretend to be a Bill Cosby to ask a favour, only to have the person on the phone scream at them. "You've got a lot of nerve calling me after what you did to my Aunt Paulette!"

    I'm still reeling that in this day and age shit like this can still be an open secret in Hollywood, or anywhere.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    That Seth McFarlane clip sure is something in hindsight. Everyone is laughing and he's just staring at the camera like it's absolutely not a joke and Emma Stone is trying to keep smiling no matter what. Christ.

    It wasn't just that joke either. I've seen a clip of 30 Rock where a female character says "Nobody in Hollywood scares me. I've turned down sex with Harvey Weinstein three times. Out of five."

    That's the same show that had a character call someone up and pretend to be a Bill Cosby to ask a favour, only to have the person on the phone scream at them. "You've got a lot of nerve calling me after what you did to my Aunt Paulette!"

    I'm still reeling that in this day and age shit like this can still be an open secret in Hollywood, or anywhere.

    Yeah but you see jokes like that and there's a degree to which it seems like it's just a joke about someone's reputation. And even that McFarlane clip, absent the recent revelations, might seem like that. It's an exaggeration for effect.

    It's just once the truth comes out and you see the look on his face and it really takes on a whole new context. He looks almost disgusted by people just applauding it. And Emma Stone looks like she's just trying not to rock the boat.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    Astaereth wrote: »
    The "missing stair" is the problem everybody in the community knows about but nobody bothers to fix, because if you know about it you know to step over it. So it's not a problem, except for newcomers who don't get warned. And the fact that the stair is sentient and can seek out victims, and round about here the metaphor breaks down.

    I don't know if it entirely applies here.

    There are for sure people who knew about Weinstein and didn't really say anything. There are probably people who didn't know*. But most people in Hollywood do seem to understand that their industry comes with a certain amount of this bullshit and that it's just the price of working at the dream factory, so to speak. It's less the missing stair and more like everybody knows the front steps to the only entrance are random-spiked worse than a Mario boss castle.

    *everybody in the world seems to have known that Weinstein was a titanic asshole (to the point where Tropic Thunder made fun of it). I think one thing that's clear is that assholeishness has a strong correlation with worse, secret misconduct. Garbage people are garbage all the way through, and that should make people more wary of tolerating terrible social behavior in leaders.

    I've always kinda thought, given how people react to this kind of behaviour in social situations and the way it lets the behaviour continue, that a big part of this can often be people just not really processing exactly how far these assholes will go. Not just "Yeah, he's a asshole, I know" but also like "Yeah, that was inappropriate, so I told him to cut that shit out" and on some level they don't get that that isn't enough. Because they don't really get that this isn't someone stepping over the line and needing to be told that, but that this is someone who doesn't acknowledge that the line exists.

    I think there's a degree to which this stuff continues because there's many people who don't realise how serious it is because they only see a part of it and sort of fill in the rest of what they assume that person's behaviour is with what a normal person would do rather then what a completely fucked up sexual predator would do.

    Like, you see Weinstein say something inappropriate and maybe you assume he's an asshole rather then someone who would corner a women and masturbate into a potted plant in front of her.

    shryke on
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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    How corrupt is Hollywood, really?

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    How corrupt is Hollywood, really?

    Like, in general?

    Pretty damn corrupt. Nepotistic as fuck.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    It seems the fallout from Weinstein has hit Affleck.

    http://variety.com/2017/film/news/ben-affleck-apologizes-hilarie-burton-1202587248/
    Ben Affleck has apologized for acting “inappropriately” toward Hilarie Burton after the actress revived her claim on Tuesday night that the “Batman” star groped her during an episode of MTV’s “TRL” in 2003.

    “I acted inappropriately toward Ms. Burton and I sincerely apologize,” he tweeted.

    Burton was then host of the MTV show. The incident was brought up on Monday night after Affleck issued a statement about Harvey Weinstein’s sexual harassment allegations. In the statement, Affleck wrote, “This is completely unacceptable, and I find myself asking what I can do to make sure this doesn’t happen to others.”

    A Twitter user responded, saying, “Ben Affleck should’ve just kept quiet.” Another added, “He also grabbed Hilarie Burton’s breasts on ‘TRL’ once. Everyone forgot, though.”

    Burton replied, “I didn’t forget,” and went on writing, “Seriously, thank you for that. I was a kid.” Later, she posted a promo video for “TRL Uncensored” and captioned it saying, “Girls. I’m so impressed with you brave ones. I had to laugh back then so I wouldn’t cry. Sending love.”

    It's maddening an act like this was caught on live tv and nothing happened. No reports in the media, or anywhere as far as I can tell. I used to watch TRL back in the day, yet I don't remember this at all. It certainly wasn't reported by MTV.

    And this isn't the last of his offensive behavior, his brother is infamous for being a harasser. Affleck has yet to speak out in public about his brother.

    http://time.com/4645846/what-to-know-about-the-casey-affleck-oscar-controversy/
    Casey Affleck has won over a dozen awards, including a Golden Globe, for his performance in Manchester by the Sea, and with Tuesday's nominations he became a favorite to win the best actor Oscar in February. Though expected, the news has elicited objections from actors, activists and commentators on the grounds the Academy disregarded sexual harassment allegations made in two settled lawsuits against the 41-year-old actor. The most outspoken critic has been Fresh Off the Boat star Constance Wu, who posted a series of strongly worded tweets shortly after the nominations. A number of entertainment outlets also published or re-promoted stories about Affleck.



    Jen Statsky is writer for The Good Place, and Broad City

    Allegations against Weinstein continue, including from Léa Seydoux.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/oct/11/lea-seydoux-says-harvey-weinstein-sexually-assaulted-her
    Léa Seydoux was on the brink of stardom when she found herself face to face with one of Hollywood’s most renowned executives: Harvey Weinstein. The two were attending a Paris fashion show, and Weinstein insisted on a meeting at his hotel that very night, she claimed.

    But a conversation about Seydoux’s career, she claimed, took a sharp turn when Weinstein lunged at her and tried to kiss her on the lips.

    “We were talking on the sofa when he suddenly jumped on me and tried to kiss me,” she told the Guardian. “I had to defend myself. He’s big and fat, so I had to be forceful to resist him.

    “He tried more than once,” she added, describing Weinstein as “very domineering” and “losing control”. “I pushed him physically. I think he respected me because I resisted him.”

    Seydoux, who appeared in the 2015 James Bond film Spectre and was the award-winning star of Blue Is the Warmest Colour, is telling her story publicly for the first time.

    In doing so, she joins a rising chorus of women who claim Weinstein not only used his awesome power as a Hollywood producer to make unwanted sexual advances – he also used physical force.

    ***

    Seydoux said she suspected Weinstein wanted to meet with her not to discuss her career but to make a pass at her. But the meeting with Weinstein was difficult to refuse. Weinstein at the time would have been at the peak of his career.

    “This was never going to be about work. He had other intentions – I could see that very clearly,” she said. “All throughout the evening, he flirted and stared at me as if I was a piece of meat.”

    Still, she said: “It was hard to say no because he’s so powerful. I’m an actress and he’s a producer.”

    Seydoux said that after her alleged encounter with Weinstein, she told her story to several friends but never made it public.

    “My agent at the time said to stay far [away from him] and be polite,” she recalled.

    Cara Delevingne spoke up, as well.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/11/entertainment/cara-delevingne-harvey-weinstein/index.html
    When I first started to work as an actress, i was working on a film and I received a call from‎ Harvey Weinstein asking if I had slept with any of the women I was seen out with in the media. It was a very odd and uncomfortable call....i answered none of his questions and hurried off the phone but before I hung up, he said to me that If I was gay or decided to be with a woman especially in public that I'd never get the role of a straight woman or make it as an actress in Hollywood. A year or two later, I went to a meeting with him in the lobby of a hotel with a director about an upcoming film. The director left the meeting and Harvey asked me to stay and chat with him. As soon as we were alone he began to brag about all the actresses he had slept with and how he had made their careers and spoke about other inappropriate things of a sexual nature. He then invited me to his room. I quickly declined and asked his assistant if my car was outside. She said it wasn't and wouldn't be for a bit and I should go to his room. At that moment I felt very powerless and scared but didn't want to act that way hoping that I was wrong about the situation. When I arrived I was relieved to find another woman in his room and thought immediately I was safe. He asked us to kiss and she began some sort of advances upon his direction. I swiftly got up and asked him if he knew that I could sing. And I began to sing....i thought it would make the situation better....more professional....like an audition....i was so nervous. After singing I said again that I had to leave. He walked me to the door and stood in front of it and tried to kiss me on the lips. I stopped him and managed to get out of the room. I still got the part for the film and always thought that he gave it to me because of what happened. Since then I felt awful that I did the movie. I felt like I didn't deserve the part. I was so hesitant about speaking out....I didn't want to hurt his family. I felt guilty as if I did something wrong. I was also terrified that this sort of thing had happened to so many women I know but no one had said anything because of fear.

    This is sickening.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    It seems the fallout from Weinstein has hit Affleck.

    http://variety.com/2017/film/news/ben-affleck-apologizes-hilarie-burton-1202587248/
    Ben Affleck has apologized for acting “inappropriately” toward Hilarie Burton after the actress revived her claim on Tuesday night that the “Batman” star groped her during an episode of MTV’s “TRL” in 2003.

    “I acted inappropriately toward Ms. Burton and I sincerely apologize,” he tweeted.

    Burton was then host of the MTV show. The incident was brought up on Monday night after Affleck issued a statement about Harvey Weinstein’s sexual harassment allegations. In the statement, Affleck wrote, “This is completely unacceptable, and I find myself asking what I can do to make sure this doesn’t happen to others.”

    A Twitter user responded, saying, “Ben Affleck should’ve just kept quiet.” Another added, “He also grabbed Hilarie Burton’s breasts on ‘TRL’ once. Everyone forgot, though.”

    Burton replied, “I didn’t forget,” and went on writing, “Seriously, thank you for that. I was a kid.” Later, she posted a promo video for “TRL Uncensored” and captioned it saying, “Girls. I’m so impressed with you brave ones. I had to laugh back then so I wouldn’t cry. Sending love.”

    It's maddening an act like this was caught on live tv and nothing happened. No reports in the media, or anywhere as far as I can tell. I used to watch TRL back in the day, yet I don't remember this at all. It certainly wasn't reported by MTV.

    And this isn't the last of his offensive behavior, his brother is infamous for being a harasser. Affleck has yet to speak out in public about his brother.

    http://time.com/4645846/what-to-know-about-the-casey-affleck-oscar-controversy/
    Casey Affleck has won over a dozen awards, including a Golden Globe, for his performance in Manchester by the Sea, and with Tuesday's nominations he became a favorite to win the best actor Oscar in February. Though expected, the news has elicited objections from actors, activists and commentators on the grounds the Academy disregarded sexual harassment allegations made in two settled lawsuits against the 41-year-old actor. The most outspoken critic has been Fresh Off the Boat star Constance Wu, who posted a series of strongly worded tweets shortly after the nominations. A number of entertainment outlets also published or re-promoted stories about Affleck.



    Jen Statsky is writer for The Good Place, and Broad City

    Allegations against Weinstein continue, including from Léa Seydoux.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/oct/11/lea-seydoux-says-harvey-weinstein-sexually-assaulted-her
    Léa Seydoux was on the brink of stardom when she found herself face to face with one of Hollywood’s most renowned executives: Harvey Weinstein. The two were attending a Paris fashion show, and Weinstein insisted on a meeting at his hotel that very night, she claimed.

    But a conversation about Seydoux’s career, she claimed, took a sharp turn when Weinstein lunged at her and tried to kiss her on the lips.

    “We were talking on the sofa when he suddenly jumped on me and tried to kiss me,” she told the Guardian. “I had to defend myself. He’s big and fat, so I had to be forceful to resist him.

    “He tried more than once,” she added, describing Weinstein as “very domineering” and “losing control”. “I pushed him physically. I think he respected me because I resisted him.”

    Seydoux, who appeared in the 2015 James Bond film Spectre and was the award-winning star of Blue Is the Warmest Colour, is telling her story publicly for the first time.

    In doing so, she joins a rising chorus of women who claim Weinstein not only used his awesome power as a Hollywood producer to make unwanted sexual advances – he also used physical force.

    ***

    Seydoux said she suspected Weinstein wanted to meet with her not to discuss her career but to make a pass at her. But the meeting with Weinstein was difficult to refuse. Weinstein at the time would have been at the peak of his career.

    “This was never going to be about work. He had other intentions – I could see that very clearly,” she said. “All throughout the evening, he flirted and stared at me as if I was a piece of meat.”

    Still, she said: “It was hard to say no because he’s so powerful. I’m an actress and he’s a producer.”

    Seydoux said that after her alleged encounter with Weinstein, she told her story to several friends but never made it public.

    “My agent at the time said to stay far [away from him] and be polite,” she recalled.

    Cara Delevingne spoke up, as well.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/11/entertainment/cara-delevingne-harvey-weinstein/index.html
    When I first started to work as an actress, i was working on a film and I received a call from‎ Harvey Weinstein asking if I had slept with any of the women I was seen out with in the media. It was a very odd and uncomfortable call....i answered none of his questions and hurried off the phone but before I hung up, he said to me that If I was gay or decided to be with a woman especially in public that I'd never get the role of a straight woman or make it as an actress in Hollywood. A year or two later, I went to a meeting with him in the lobby of a hotel with a director about an upcoming film. The director left the meeting and Harvey asked me to stay and chat with him. As soon as we were alone he began to brag about all the actresses he had slept with and how he had made their careers and spoke about other inappropriate things of a sexual nature. He then invited me to his room. I quickly declined and asked his assistant if my car was outside. She said it wasn't and wouldn't be for a bit and I should go to his room. At that moment I felt very powerless and scared but didn't want to act that way hoping that I was wrong about the situation. When I arrived I was relieved to find another woman in his room and thought immediately I was safe. He asked us to kiss and she began some sort of advances upon his direction. I swiftly got up and asked him if he knew that I could sing. And I began to sing....i thought it would make the situation better....more professional....like an audition....i was so nervous. After singing I said again that I had to leave. He walked me to the door and stood in front of it and tried to kiss me on the lips. I stopped him and managed to get out of the room. I still got the part for the film and always thought that he gave it to me because of what happened. Since then I felt awful that I did the movie. I felt like I didn't deserve the part. I was so hesitant about speaking out....I didn't want to hurt his family. I felt guilty as if I did something wrong. I was also terrified that this sort of thing had happened to so many women I know but no one had said anything because of fear.

    This is sickening.

    I dislike that often people essentially get away with, even in admission of guilt, just saying, 'I acted inappropriately,'

    Like they just spoke out of turn or raised their voice or something.


    I wonder if it wouldn't help to force someone like Affleck to say in precise terms what he did. Force him to own it.

    Apologizing for 'acting inappropriately', IMHO, is much easier to do than apologizing for grabbing someone's boobs.

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  • ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    Terry Crews talks here about being sexually assaulted at a party last year:



    Pictures with the whole thread:

    People like to think that it couldn't happen to them, but it can literally happen to anyone.

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    As a more recent development, it seems the FBI has opened an investigation into the allegations around Weinstein, particularly those by Lucia Evans in 2004. A key part of this is because the alleged assault happened in New York there is no statute of limitations on crimes of this nature: if it can be proved to have happened, criminal charges can be brought against him. NYPD's Special Victims Division has joined in the investigation, while parallel work seems to be starting in France and the UK for alleged assaults by Weinstein in those countries.

    Taking one step out, if the FBI's investigation starts to turn up allegations and evidence like one of those unending paper streamer magic tricks (a distinct possibility) I could see this turning into a full-blown probe of production companies across all of film and television, maybe music too. Not even Disney is isolated from this, especially with the rumors around ex-mouseketeers and other former child stars.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    This is chilling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/12/rose-mcgowan-twitter-suspended-ben-affleck-harvey-weinstein
    Actor Rose McGowan, one of the accusers of disgraced film producer Harvey Weinstein, has had her Twitter activity suspended. McGowan had earlier tweeted “fuck off” to actor Ben Affleck and accused him of lying about his knowledge of Weinstein’s history of sexual misconduct.

    She announced the 12-hour suspension in an Instagram post. During this period she is not able to send tweets or retweets from her account, unless she deletes “tweets that violate our rules”, the notification from Twitter said.

    It was not immediately clear which tweets had fallen foul of Twitter regulations.

    McGowan has been a vocal figure in the Weinstein scandal since the New York Times broke the story last week and has been using Twitter to express her support for other women who have come forward, as well as to attack those who she sees as being complicit, including the Weinstein Company board of directors and high profile Hollywood figures such as Matt Damon and Affleck.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Way to read the room, twitter

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  • LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Women are sexually harassed and threatened on twitter everyday, but as soon as one gets a noticed for calling it out in a powerful industry - shut her up!

    Real nice, Twitter.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    Starting to get worried the bigwigs are going to destroy Rose's career over this. She was one of the earliest getting the article together and has been a front line defender publicly to maintain the pressure. Ashley Judd is probably too powerful for them to do blatant reprisals like blacklisting, or at least weather reprisals long enough she can pick her career up again. This is so fucked up.

    edit: McGowan needs to get a blog and/or you tube account asap.

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  • KetarKetar Lacks the basic intelligence required for pretty much everythingRegistered User regular
    It would be difficult to tell given the downward trajectory of Rose's career, unfortunately. She has only filmed one movie since 2011. Her only major tv role since 2009 was 6 episodes of a Crackle original in 2014.

    Sometimes our strengths lie beneath the surface - far beneath, in some cases - but I'm sure there's more to Ketar than meets the eye!
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Ketar wrote: »
    It would be difficult to tell given the downward trajectory of Rose's career, unfortunately. She has only filmed one movie since 2011. Her only major tv role since 2009 was 6 episodes of a Crackle original in 2014.

    I guess Hollywood found her... difficult.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Ketar wrote: »
    It would be difficult to tell given the downward trajectory of Rose's career, unfortunately. She has only filmed one movie since 2011. Her only major tv role since 2009 was 6 episodes of a Crackle original in 2014.

    Maybe she thought she had nothing to lose? Either way, a comeback later on is likely out of the question for now.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Actors who have enough of a name that the media listens, but a dead career, are ideal witnesses to this abuse plague in Hollywood. They haven't got anything to lose, so they can be the first to speak.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    But if they are no longer involved in the industry, and thus can't be there as an example/monitor of how new people entering the industry behave then it won't actually achieve anything in terms of stopping the abuse. Well, I mean, it will to an extent. Harvey Weinstein is clearly a monster, and his guilt and corruption make him irredeemable but the vast majority of the harm in Hollywood to do with this aren't people literally being raped by Harvey Weinstein. It's in the women (and men) doing things they are uncomfortable in doing to get a break in an industry filled with personal relationships and biases, where those personal relationships and biases are almost impossible to simply root out and make illegal.

    These big cases which break are like when the government comes on and says "We've seized a hundred thousand pounds of cocaine and arrested thirty dealers!". We know that doesn't stop people buying drugs, simply makes the drugs which do exist more expensive, and does nothing to make people think, "I'm going to stop buying and dealing drugs"

    To stop this we need to educate people better, and that is more than just punishing the worst offenders. People don't identify with the worst offenders. The fact that Weinstein has probably raped 1000 women over the years means its great to bring him down and send him to jail , but people who are marginal cases of this look at him and say, "I'm nothing like that. My transgressions are small and insignificant" And the amount of net harm done by those marginal cases vastly exceeds that done by Weinstein. And the majority of women and men involved with those marginal cases probably think that the undesirable interactions they have with them outweigh the personal costs, because those men and women are their only lifeline out of obscurity. So the majority of men and women being exploited wont speak up, because destroying their bridge is bad for them, and the majority of men and women doing the exploiting don't really view themselves as doing anything wrong. Now, it's certainly the case that minds change, often for good and real reasons, and what seemed like a good decision at the time will slowly become a poison that eats at you.

    I genuinely believe that this problem is caused by, and will endure until we get rid of, societies taboo about talking,thinking and valuing sex and sexuality and the double standard (and inconsistent standard) which is placed upon men and women in terms of their relationship with it. I think anything other than that might be a great act in terms of what should be done, since Weinstein and others are clearly monsters, but they will be replaced again and again and again and the exact same number of women and men will be abused in the exact same ways until we address the root causes. We need real sex education in this country. And that doesn't just mean education about pregnancy protection. It means real philosophical education about what sex and intimacy is, what it means, and how people relate to it in different ways. We need to stop putting condoms on bananas (if we're LUCKY, and I mean, clearly we can start these classes with condoms on bananas since protection is important) and start teaching boys and girls something that will actually help with this.

    edit - Eh, I guess I went through all this last time and noone really got anything out of it. There's my piece on the subject. I'm sure everyone disagrees but I'll try to leave it well alone from now on so that you can discuss things in peace without everyone getting upset at me.

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  • AridholAridhol Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    I think step 1, which should have happened decades ago, is men not turning a blind eye to the shit behaviour of their friends and colleagues.
    When a victim does it a portion of the population will immediately go to "She's just feeling guilty or she's a jilted/jealous lover" etc... and it's not taken seriously.
    The only way this stuff gets traction is if there is evidence or an overwhelming number of women coming forward and that's fucked.

    They have "See it, Say it" policies at fucking kindergarten and maybe that's where we need to start.

    Mandatory reporting if you suspect sexual harassment or abuse? It seems to work for child abuse.


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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    This is chilling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/12/rose-mcgowan-twitter-suspended-ben-affleck-harvey-weinstein
    Actor Rose McGowan, one of the accusers of disgraced film producer Harvey Weinstein, has had her Twitter activity suspended. McGowan had earlier tweeted “fuck off” to actor Ben Affleck and accused him of lying about his knowledge of Weinstein’s history of sexual misconduct.

    She announced the 12-hour suspension in an Instagram post. During this period she is not able to send tweets or retweets from her account, unless she deletes “tweets that violate our rules”, the notification from Twitter said.

    It was not immediately clear which tweets had fallen foul of Twitter regulations.

    McGowan has been a vocal figure in the Weinstein scandal since the New York Times broke the story last week and has been using Twitter to express her support for other women who have come forward, as well as to attack those who she sees as being complicit, including the Weinstein Company board of directors and high profile Hollywood figures such as Matt Damon and Affleck.

    Dorsey needs to publicly apologize to McGowan, reinstate her account, and find who authorized the suspension and fire them.

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    According to CNN, one of her tweets contained a private phone number, which was why she was blocked for 12 hours.

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  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    According to CNN, one of her tweets contained a private phone number, which was why she was blocked for 12 hours.

    Ah.
    Well, then yes. That would do it.

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  • AridholAridhol Registered User regular
    I also read that she was blocked for providing private information publicly.
    That said, Twitter has the ability to simply remove a tweet and provide an explanation to Rose.
    A complete block is tone deaf.

    Almost start nuclear war? Promote racist bullshit? yeah, you can stay.

    Post a phone number? fuck you, you're cut off!

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Ardol wrote: »
    Terry Crews talks here about being sexually assaulted at a party last year:



    Pictures with the whole thread:

    People like to think that it couldn't happen to them, but it can literally happen to anyone.

    Well I guess that’s a bit of a flaw in the treat people like the rock suggestion.

    It says a lot about the power dynamics of Hollywood that a professional football player could get subjected to this sort of thing and still be afraid to say something or respond.

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Hollywood is by no means the only place this happens, but I think part of the problem is in the structure of the business. Unlike say, the VC technology startup space (which has a definite segment with similar attitudes), it doesn't seem like Hollywood has the kind of structural features in place that serve as a means to deter bad behavior. If you're an actor looking to break out, there doesn't seem to be an HR-equivalent to report to. Now, I don't know what the best way is to implement a functional equivalent; maybe it would work like it does for contract workers where you report to the production company's HR, or perhaps the Screen Actors' Guild or some similar group should develop its own back-end. Whatever form that should take, there should be a way to create a paper trail for incidents like this (which is very important for any eventual civil or criminal cases). If such structures do already exist, people are using them, and yet nothing is happening to prevent repeat offenses, then we have an entirely different problem on our hands that very likely will require law enforcement to rectify.

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