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[D&D 5E] Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

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Posts

  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    Arthil wrote: »
    Wild Magic depends on your DM being a good sport and having you roll enough is all. Well... You also are given all the tools to -force- it to happen too as the player.

    it's not a problem of the DM being antagonistic or refusing to go with it, its a problem of the DM already having way too much to keep track of and just forgetting. It's absolutely terrible design.

    ElvenshaeJustTee
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    had a really good session of 5e this last weekend. 3 of the players are totally new to RPGs and of course we are all new to 5e D&D.

    Something that helped a lot compared to the previous session was taking the time to make cards for the spellcasters for all their spells. The 5e players handbook is a trashfire when it comes to trying to look up anything during play. I could pull my 1e Players Handbook off the shelf and find a spell description more easily. The whole 'natural language' thing in the spell descriptions continues to be a pain in the ass (the usual thing of needing to re-explain how any non-direct-damage spell works every single time someone wants to cast it) but at least all the info about ranges and damage and such was ready to hand.

    I ended up just giving the Wild Magic sorcerer an extra known spell because the class features for that are some of the worst designed trash I have ever seen. They are just plain annoying. You have major class features that say "if the DM allows it do X". No suggestion whatsoever as to why or when the DM should. It puts a bunch of headache and bookkeeping for the major class feature of a PC onto the DM (dumping on the DM being one of 5e defining characteristics of course). Also the wild magic surge table is pretty sad stuff from what I remember from 2nd edition. How this class made it into the PHB despite the long playtest / feedback period I don't know.

    On a positive note, this video was really genuinely useful. Lot of good ideas and suggestions for where to mine more good ideas.

    The spells are in alphabetical order, I'm not sure how you can make that easier. Is it possible you can find a spell in the first ed book simply because you are more familiar with that book? I'm not saying parts of 5e aren't in hard to find places. The spells just aren't really one of those things because all the spells are in alphabetical order. You flip to the spells section then flip through the alphabet to your spell. Like I've never had trouble flipping directly to spells, but I've been running a game almost every week since the books all came out so I just have a ton of experience flipping through them.

    Also the wild mage is easy as heck to run.

    Just make the answer... Every time

    Once per turn When they cast a spell of 1st level or higher, they roll a d20, on a 1 surge.

    When they use their advantage... hand em an automatic surge on their next spell of first level or higher. (If you wanna have some RNG fun with it when they use their advantage, roll a die to figure out what spell slot they need to cast to get an automatic surge.)

    It takes out a little bit of unpredictability (when's it going to be able to surge?) and adds a whole shit ton of chaos (by consistently surging).

    At worst make certain sections of your game world act in that manner, sort of wild sorcery zones if you will. It's basically a question of: "do you wish to allow RNG to possibly fuck this whole scene right here should the wild mage elect to use magic?". Like don't have them able to surge when them ground zeroing a fireball would totally fuck your whole campaign by killing the quest giver. Is that arbitrary? Yes. Does that particularly matter? No... it's chaos... it's arbitrary.

    It is quite unfortunate that came with no DM guidelines on it because some folks are just going to look at it and think its some kind of important balancing factor or something when it really isn't. Your player is requesting that a bunch of wacky random shit happens to their character...The surges deliver that. Sometimes it's good, sometimes its bad, sometimes its laughably cosmetic.

    And if you forget to hand them the auto surge... whatever... more chaos.

    Sleep on
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    oh hey, new door monster!

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  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    The 5e spells being organized by level would make SO much more sense than alphabetical.

    ZomroRiemannLiveswebguy20PowerpuppiesDenadaGaddezMrGrimoireZonugalNyhtsee317JustTeeToxAnialos
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Or alphabetical within spell lvl.

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    see317JustTeeGoodKingJayIII
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    The 5e spells being organized by level would make SO much more sense than alphabetical.

    and by class yes.

    Class would leave too much redundancy, or conversely, too much referencing other classes spell lists.

    SleepJustTee
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Seriously... is it hard to find words in a dictionary?

    You need to find fireball... look in the f's

    If i needed to know daylight was a third level spell, rather than that it starts with D that would be infuriating.

    SteelhawkMvrckTheDrifter
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    And in that case I just check the class spell-lists.

    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: ArthilCwcuLUM.jpg
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Arthil wrote: »
    And in that case I just check the class spell-lists.

    An unnecessary cross reference when everything's just in alphabetical order.

    TheDrifter
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Count me as one of the people for whom it is more annoying to have to flip pages when considering different choices for an X level spell than to have to know my spell level to look a spell up

    Powerpuppies on
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    SmrtnikcaptainkJustTeewebguy20DarkPrimusTurambar
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Count me as one of the people for whom it is more annoying to have to flip pages when considering different choices for an X level spell than to have to know my spell level to look a spell up

    Right. You level up, oh look i can finally learn lvl 4 spells. Go in the back, ok, here it's a list of 20 spells my class can learn. I guess i an leafing through the whole rest of the book yo find them one at a time and keeping a finger inserted on the ones that sound neat for further culling later (because i can only learn 2 actually).

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  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Also that they aren’t tagged by class is crazy.

    FuselageDarkPrimusMoridin88914357
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    I am glad the spell list is alphabetical. By level seems wasteful, since some spells are available to different classes at different levels. A nice side effect of the alphabetical listing is that there are some clumps of similar spells for easy reference, such as Dominate X all being on one page.

    Re: wild surges. My table also plays that the wild mage (me!) rolls for surge after every (non-cantrip) spell. My DM was wary about this at first, but I pointed out it's only 5% to go off per spell. Especially at lower levels, you're likely to go multiple days without seeing a surge. And even when you do, half of the surges don't do much of anything. Some people freak out about the chance you could kill yourself with a fireball, but that's a mere 1/1000 chance per spell. Just go for it!

    As for Tides of Chaos, using that is essentially giving the DM a reason to make a scene more interesting, so that typically ends up getting recharged at a moment when it has a high potential for shenanigans (often the first round of a new encounter).

    If you want a mechanically strong character though, you should really just make a dragon sorcerer instead. Permanent mage armor that doesn't take up one of your limited spells known is real good, not to mention the other stuff you get.

    Sleep
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Also that they aren’t tagged by class is crazy.

    At least give each class an icon (i.e. https://i.redd.it/py9h6ogfcp1z.png but DnD styled) then put mini versions of the icons next to each spell to tell you which classes can learn it.

    Not counting special mechanics where this type of cleric can cast this one mage spell because lore, or whatever.

    steam_sig.png
    Zonugal
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    Also that they aren’t tagged by class is crazy.

    At least give each class an icon (i.e. https://i.redd.it/py9h6ogfcp1z.png but DnD styled) then put mini versions of the icons next to each spell to tell you which classes can learn it.

    Not counting special mechanics where this type of cleric can cast this one mage spell because lore, or whatever.

    Right, I wouldn’t expect those to account for domain spells or anything. Each class does have an icon even, ive seen some sites use them.

  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    You guys dont use Google for looking up what spells do what and when?

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Am I the only one who writes down my spells and their general effects on a piece of paper? And if it's more complicated than "Fireball 6d6" I also write the page number down so I can look it up?

    Also... alphabetical order is the simplest thing. Don't mess with it.

    NotoriusBENFuselageFryIvelliusTheDrifterchromdom
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Am I the only one who writes down my spells and their general effects on a piece of paper? And if it's more complicated than "Fireball 6d6" I also write the page number down so I can look it up?

    Also... alphabetical order is the simplest thing. Don't mess with it.

    Get your filthy pen and paper out of my pnp game!

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
    FuselageFryElvenshaeRhesus Positivehlprmnky14357Tofystedeth
  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    Also that they aren’t tagged by class is crazy.

    At least give each class an icon (i.e. https://i.redd.it/py9h6ogfcp1z.png but DnD styled) then put mini versions of the icons next to each spell to tell you which classes can learn it.

    Not counting special mechanics where this type of cleric can cast this one mage spell because lore, or whatever.

    Right, I wouldn’t expect those to account for domain spells or anything. Each class does have an icon even, ive seen some sites use them.

    Once again, it's an organizational tool that they already had in a previous edition (3.5 spells are listed this way) and mysteriously un-learned for 5e.

    DnD beyond does this, at least.

  • BursarBursar Hee Noooo! Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Am I the only one who writes down my spells and their general effects on a piece of paper? And if it's more complicated than "Fireball 6d6" I also write the page number down so I can look it up?

    Also... alphabetical order is the simplest thing. Don't mess with it.

    The easiest thing would be if WotC had put in the effort to make all the lower-level spells come first in alphabetical order, so all the spells are both in alphabetical and level order. C'mon, Mearles, crack the whip on those lazy writers!

    GNU Terry Pratchett
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    Fry
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Am I the only one who writes down my spells and their general effects on a piece of paper? And if it's more complicated than "Fireball 6d6" I also write the page number down so I can look it up?

    Also... alphabetical order is the simplest thing. Don't mess with it.

    Get your filthy pen and paper out of my pnp game!

    Pencil, actually.... and NEVER!!!

    SleepFuselageMrGrimoire
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Bursar wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Am I the only one who writes down my spells and their general effects on a piece of paper? And if it's more complicated than "Fireball 6d6" I also write the page number down so I can look it up?

    Also... alphabetical order is the simplest thing. Don't mess with it.

    The easiest thing would be if WotC had put in the effort to make all the lower-level spells come first in alphabetical order, so all the spells are both in alphabetical and level order. C'mon, Mearles, crack the whip on those lazy writers!

    Ha ha ha ha ha.

    So I was at a talk with some Wizard folks back in the 3rd edition era about indexes. At the time there was a 3rd party OGL book that had an Iron Kingdoms setting, not the one around now, and one of the big selling points for this book was that they included fantastic indexes that included the Wizards published core books. It was kinda crazy.

    So somebody asked them why they didn't include better indexes since there was clearly demand and the answer was "Oh yeah but everybody hates doing that stuff."

    ....

    Now of course we have the ubiquitous internet so it is less of a deal but that was a huge "they're just people" moments for me.

    LindSleepFuselageElvenshaeRhesus Positive
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    I really want to put together a Tiefling Hexblade now. The Hellish Rebuke and Darkness racials would be good for an actual melee warlock. And hexblades get so many of their goodies right away at level 1. I'd have to rethink spell selection a lot though.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    I really want to put together a Tiefling Hexblade now. The Hellish Rebuke and Darkness racials would be good for an actual melee warlock. And hexblades get so many of their goodies right away at level 1. I'd have to rethink spell selection a lot though.

    Hex, and Armor of Agathys are not bad calls for a melee warlock

  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    I really want to put together a Tiefling Hexblade now. The Hellish Rebuke and Darkness racials would be good for an actual melee warlock. And hexblades get so many of their goodies right away at level 1. I'd have to rethink spell selection a lot though.

    If you're on that plan most of your spell selection won't matter too much because you'll never want to be casting a spell that isn't Hex, Darkness, or Shadow Blade.

    SleepFuselageSmrtnik
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Abbalah wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    I really want to put together a Tiefling Hexblade now. The Hellish Rebuke and Darkness racials would be good for an actual melee warlock. And hexblades get so many of their goodies right away at level 1. I'd have to rethink spell selection a lot though.

    If you're on that plan most of your spell selection won't matter too much because you'll never want to be casting a spell that isn't Hex, Darkness, or Shadow Blade.

    Plus the warlock smite thingy is very good,

    Sleep
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Abbalah wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    I really want to put together a Tiefling Hexblade now. The Hellish Rebuke and Darkness racials would be good for an actual melee warlock. And hexblades get so many of their goodies right away at level 1. I'd have to rethink spell selection a lot though.

    If you're on that plan most of your spell selection won't matter too much because you'll never want to be casting a spell that isn't Hex, Darkness, or Shadow Blade.

    Shadow blade is so good

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Bursar wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Am I the only one who writes down my spells and their general effects on a piece of paper? And if it's more complicated than "Fireball 6d6" I also write the page number down so I can look it up?

    Also... alphabetical order is the simplest thing. Don't mess with it.

    The easiest thing would be if WotC had put in the effort to make all the lower-level spells come first in alphabetical order, so all the spells are both in alphabetical and level order. C'mon, Mearles, crack the whip on those lazy writers!

    Ha ha ha ha ha.

    So I was at a talk with some Wizard folks back in the 3rd edition era about indexes. At the time there was a 3rd party OGL book that had an Iron Kingdoms setting, not the one around now, and one of the big selling points for this book was that they included fantastic indexes that included the Wizards published core books. It was kinda crazy.

    So somebody asked them why they didn't include better indexes since there was clearly demand and the answer was "Oh yeah but everybody hates doing that stuff."

    ....

    Now of course we have the ubiquitous internet so it is less of a deal but that was a huge "they're just people" moments for me.

    Boo boo, you're doing a job. If I get asked a question at my office I damn sure give a reference for where I found that information.

  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Didn't 3.x have actual lists of spells that were broken down by class and level, and then have the actual spells in alphabetical? That would be useful, or even the other way around. Descriptions by class/level, with a master list in alphabetical order that lists the spells' class, level, page reference, and keywords.

    Either or, really.

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    ZonugalElvenshae
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Didn't 3.x have actual lists of spells that were broken down by class and level, and then have the actual spells in alphabetical? That would be useful, or even the other way around. Descriptions by class/level, with a master list in alphabetical order that lists the spells' class, level, page reference, and keywords.

    Either or, really.

    Yes.

    Also spells had a line like:

    Level: Bard 2, Cleric 2, Druid 3, Paladin 3, Ranger 3, Healing 2

    Somehow that was viewed as not "Natural Language" and therefore discarded for 5e despite it making it a giant pain in the ass to answer "Who could cast remove curse?" and similar questions.

    ElvenshaeToxMoridin889
  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Didn't 3.x have actual lists of spells that were broken down by class and level, and then have the actual spells in alphabetical? That would be useful, or even the other way around. Descriptions by class/level, with a master list in alphabetical order that lists the spells' class, level, page reference, and keywords.

    Either or, really.

    Yes.

    Also spells had a line like:

    Level: Bard 2, Cleric 2, Druid 3, Paladin 3, Ranger 3, Healing 2

    Somehow that was viewed as not "Natural Language" and therefore discarded for 5e despite it making it a giant pain in the ass to answer "Who could cast remove curse?" and similar questions.

    3.5 also gave a brief descriptor of the spell itself in its spell index pages.

    2mw6ukw.jpg
    ElvenshaeMoridin889
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    All of that comes down to page space.

    All of those things are printing the same information over and over again.

    It wastes hundreds of lines of text saying the same thing multiple times.

    Having the descriptions in the spell lists means you give the description of detect magic like 8 times. 7 short descriptions in all spell lists, but the warlock, and the 8th version in the actual spell descriptions.

    Classes that can use a spell adds a line or two to each and every spell description.


    They wouldn't be bad things to have, but sacrificing them for page space is understandable.

    Ivellius
  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    I mean...having the part of the spell entry that says "3rd-level necromancy" under the name instead say "3rd-level necromancy (bard, cleric, wizard)" would cost zero extra page space and is effectively what 3.5 did.

    ElvenshaeZonugalSmrtnik
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Also this: Wizards sells packs of cards with all the spells on it. There's packs for every class and they're on beautiful card stock. All that for the low low price of 25USD. .

    So there's some incentive for WotC to keep their "main" books a bit unwieldy... those card packs make for a gorgeous gift.

    *edit: spelling

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
    never dieElvenshaeZonugalSmrtnik
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Also let's not act like the PHB doesn't already have a completely useless extra index anyway.

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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Also let's not act like the PHB doesn't already have a completely useless extra index anyway.

    An index where one entry can refer to a different entry! Why not have both entries just direct you to the same page? I makes no sense to me.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
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  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Also let's not act like the PHB doesn't already have a completely useless extra index anyway.

    An index where one entry can refer to a different entry! Why not have both entries just direct you to the same page? I makes no sense to me.


    So somebody asked them why they didn't include better indexes since there was clearly demand and the answer was "Oh yeah but everybody hates doing that stuff."

    DevoutlyApathetic
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    this is what I used to generate PDFs that I then printed for spell cards. Keep in mind the default colors need tweaking if you are going to print em.

    http://hardcodex.ru/

    Fry
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    The 4th ed toolkit for making cards was great, especially because everybody was a wizard / had an array of exciting options in combat [delete as appropriate]

    It’s the easiest way, really - that way everybody can choose their favourite way to organise spells

    RiemannLivesToxElvenshae
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