[Hearthstone] THIS THREAD IS DEAD! GO POST IN THE NEW ONE!!

GMaster7

GoodKingJayIII wrote: »

Roz wrote: »

Also, the dust cost for this expansion feels obscene.

Like, I appreciate making strong cards, but when so many of them are Legendary/Epic and mandatory to boot, it makes it really hard to play anymore than 1 class. I've spent 25k dust in this expansion and there's sill archetypes I don't have the dust to build. That seems...not healthy, if I'm honest.

I'm one of the more forgiving people when it comes to Blizzard's business model, but this is absurd.

There are a ton of amazing epics and it’s really hindering my ability to try out decks in different classes. Part of the reason I’ve been so bummed this early into the expac.

I agree with this. I opened all of my packs with excitement, but... I'm missing a lot of pieces, even after opening about a hundred packs, so I haven't dipped in too much this week - and when I have, I've used old decks and maybe added a piece or two.

I know that's basically par for the course, but I think Frozen Throne spoiled me by handing out so much cool, class-specific stuff (or maybe I was just really lucky with my pack opening, as I had a ton of Hero Cards to play with at launch). I need to do a little crafting and probably spend a little more $, but I haven't wanted to really do so until the meta settles.

forty

As a limited collection player, I'm torn about the 2018 rotation in April. On the one hand, good riddance to MSoG and Jades, Evolve, Patches, etc. On the other hand, I will be losing the last ever expansion where I actually have all the good cards from it (as a subset of having all the cards from Karazhan).

-SPI-

I wonder if the increasing cost ends up amplifying "OP" cards, things become more prevalent because they're the "safe crafts" of the expansion and then people use them in every deck.

If I have a handful of dust, am I likely to experiment with a fun memey deck or just craft some bonemares, cobalt scalebanes, patches and corridor creepers? If I could I'd like to try out an Oakheart, Dragonhatcher, Drakkari Enchanter combo deck, but that's several thousand more dust than I have so I'll probably make a southsea captain instead and keep chipping away with the same zoo deck I used all through KFT because I didn't have enough of the cards to make fun bullshit decks there either.

I needed anime to post.

i've said it before and i'll say it again, a huge problem with hearthstone is that goofy fun cards cost as much as competitive staples

if you wanted to build a goofy king togwoggle deck in a physical game you could probably pick him up for a quarter, but because of the dust economy he's as expensive as the most powerful legendary in the game

Beasteh

having a lot of fun with this satellite priest

grand archivist casting a free mind control/free from amber every turn it's alive is hilarious

kime

I needed a gnome to post. wrote: »

i've said it before and i'll say it again, a huge problem with hearthstone is that goofy fun cards cost as much as competitive staples

if you wanted to build a goofy king togwoggle deck in a physical game you could probably pick him up for a quarter, but because of the dust economy he's as expensive as the most powerful legendary in the game

I don't remember seeing this before, but yeah that's a good point I hadn't thought of

MNC Dover

I would recommend not watching my recent VoD, unless you derive great pleasure in watching a Rogue die slowly to a bunch of shit.

The Escape Goat

MNC Dover wrote: »

I would recommend not watching my recent VoD, unless you derive great pleasure in watching a Rogue die slowly to a bunch of shit.

I'll put it on repeat forever.

Roz

I needed a gnome to post. wrote: »

i've said it before and i'll say it again, a huge problem with hearthstone is that goofy fun cards cost as much as competitive staples

if you wanted to build a goofy king togwoggle deck in a physical game you could probably pick him up for a quarter, but because of the dust economy he's as expensive as the most powerful legendary in the game

Yeah, this is a big part of it. I want to try Twig of the World Tree because I've seen some people experimenting with it, and it looks like fun. But then I've got to spend 1600 dust on a card that may not pan out. When it doesn't, all I get back is 400 dust, which hurts taking gambles on cards.

3cl1ps3

MNC Dover wrote: »

I would recommend not watching my recent VoD, unless you derive great pleasure in watching a Rogue die slowly to a bunch of shit.

dude catch up it's Paladins we hate right now

UnbrokenEva

Korror wrote: »

It's pretty rough now as it looks like Corridor Creeper looks like it's going to be the Tar Creeper of this expansion, a minion that goes in nearly every deck that isn't trying to cheat something OP out. Hope you've got 800 dust saved up along with whatever you need to update your old deck from KOTFT. That's if your old deck/class is still viable in the new meta because if it's not (RIP warrior), you're going to need new legendaries, epics and so on.

Better make sure that your new deck is still viable 2 expansions from now in a completely unknown meta.

I mean, sure?

If a new expansion came out and didn't lead to a bunch of changes in decks/strategy that would be a pretty shitty expansion.

If K&C and released and there weren't at least a couple new cards that improved my existing Secret Mage deck, I would have been disappointed.

Corridor Creeper being a must-pick for every non-control minion deck is a problem, but Patches was that problem already, and CC wouldn't be as bad without early game pirate rush being in every aggro/tempo deck

The rest of your complaints, about making sure decks are viable multiple expansions in the future and new expansions changing the meta are just confusing. How did you expect this to work? If the new cards don't shift the meta, there would be no reason for people to buy them, and that's kind of the whole business model behind the game?

Roz

3clipse wrote: »

MNC Dover wrote: »

I would recommend not watching my recent VoD, unless you derive great pleasure in watching a Rogue die slowly to a bunch of shit.

dude catch up it's Paladins we hate right now

For me it's warlocks/priests. or maybe just the patches package with creeper.

Neutrals should be helping to fill gaps in decks, not forming the base shell that classes slot into. It's like every deck right now starts at 20 cards because the first 10 are all neutrals that you must play.

I needed anime to post.

Roz wrote: »

I needed a gnome to post. wrote: »

i've said it before and i'll say it again, a huge problem with hearthstone is that goofy fun cards cost as much as competitive staples

if you wanted to build a goofy king togwoggle deck in a physical game you could probably pick him up for a quarter, but because of the dust economy he's as expensive as the most powerful legendary in the game

Yeah, this is a big part of it. I want to try Twig of the World Tree because I've seen some people experimenting with it, and it looks like fun. But then I've got to spend 1600 dust on a card that may not pan out. When it doesn't, all I get back is 400 dust, which hurts taking gambles on cards.

For a game, Hearthstone sure is lacking in the ability to capital-p Play

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

eh I'm pretty sure I'm back to hating miracle rogues

anyway anyone who spent any time playing big priest knows how powerful cheating a big minion out of your deck can be; in a way I like that they proliferated that mechanic to a bunch of classes but it also has the problem of increasing the variance of games

is anyone playing big/control warrior? I ran into one of those on ladder last night, seemed like it'd be fun

Beasteh

i am having a grand old time with taunt warrior

it's very no nonsense

i am going to play a taunt every turn until i get rag then you are going to die

also all of your shit is getting removed

I needed anime to post.

on the flip side, aluneth and val'anyr might be the first time we've gotten class legendaries for aggro decks, ever?

which, i don't think they were necessarily intended to be, but

UnbrokenEva

Returning to the game so late, I think I've just been operating on the assumption that I'm never going to be able to try out every popular deck

KFT's Tempo Rogue and Big/Razakus Priest decks? Ha, no. I just kind of took that for granted and looked for cheaper decks I could work towards, and picked a handful of classes to focus on (Mage, Hunter, Warlock) and a couple that I'm just never going to worry about (Shaman, Warrior)

tl;dr the magic of lowered expectations is a powerful thing?

3cl1ps3

Beasteh wrote: »

i am having a grand old time with taunt warrior

it's very no nonsense

i am going to play a taunt every turn until i get rag then you are going to die

also all of your shit is getting removed

Post a list yo!

Beasteh

### Taunt
# Class: Warrior
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 1x (1) Fire Plume's Heart
# 1x (1) Whirlwind
# 1x (2) Dirty Rat
# 2x (2) Drywhisker Armorer
# 2x (2) Execute
# 2x (2) Sleep with the Fishes
# 2x (3) Acolyte of Pain
# 1x (3) Ravaging Ghoul
# 2x (3) Stonehill Defender
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (4) Blood Razor
# 1x (4) Saronite Chain Gang
# 2x (5) Alley Armorsmith
# 2x (5) Brawl
# 1x (5) Direhorn Hatchling
# 1x (5) Harrison Jones
# 2x (6) Gemstudded Golem
# 1x (7) The Curator
# 2x (8) Primordial Drake
#
AAECAYwWCPwEkAeCrQK5sgLTwwLfxAKixwKbywILS5EG+wz+vAKbwgLGwwLKwwLJxwLMzQLL5wLP5wIA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Gvzbgul

Could Hearthstone ever add a real money auction house and a trading system?

MNC Dover

Gvzbgul wrote: »

Could Hearthstone ever add a real money auction house and a trading system?

Sure they could, but they know better.

Beasteh

in fact here's a list of my current decks

Tempo Secret Mage

### Bullshit
# Class: Mage
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Kabal Lackey
# 2x (1) Mana Wyrm
# 2x (2) Arcanologist
# 2x (2) Frostbolt
# 2x (2) Medivh's Valet
# 2x (2) Primordial Glyph
# 2x (3) Arcane Intellect
# 1x (3) Counterspell
# 2x (3) Explosive Runes
# 2x (3) Frost Nova
# 1x (3) Ice Block
# 2x (3) Kirin Tor Mage
# 2x (4) Fireball
# 1x (5) Leeroy Jenkins
# 1x (6) Aluneth
# 2x (6) Kabal Crystal Runner
# 2x (7) Corridor Creeper
#
AAECAY0WBHHAAa8EotMCDbsClQOrBMsElgXsBde2Auu6Aoe9AsHBApjEAo/TAvvTAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Tempo Rogue

### Tempo
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (0) Shadowstep
# 2x (1) Fire Fly
# 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
# 2x (1) Southsea Deckhand
# 2x (1) Swashburglar
# 1x (2) Prince Keleseth
# 1x (3) Edwin VanCleef
# 2x (3) SI:7 Agent
# 2x (3) Southsea Captain
# 2x (4) Elven Minstrel
# 2x (4) Saronite Chain Gang
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 1x (5) Leeroy Jenkins
# 2x (5) Vilespine Slayer
# 2x (7) Bonemare
# 2x (7) Corridor Creeper
#
AAECAYO6AgSyAq8EkbwCnOICDbQB7QKoBdQF3QiStgKBwgLrwgKbywLKywKmzgL70wLb4wIA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Murlocdin

### Murloc
# Class: Paladin
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Grimscale Chum
# 2x (1) Murloc Tidecaller
# 2x (1) Righteous Protector
# 2x (1) Vilefin Inquisitor
# 2x (2) Bluegill Warrior
# 2x (2) Hydrologist
# 2x (2) Rockpool Hunter
# 2x (3) Coldlight Seer
# 2x (3) Divine Favor
# 2x (3) Murloc Warleader
# 2x (3) Unidentified Maul
# 2x (4) Call to Arms
# 2x (4) Gentle Megasaur
# 1x (6) Sunkeeper Tarim
# 1x (6) Val'anyr
# 2x (7) Corridor Creeper
#
AAECAYsWArnBArfpAg7FA9sDpwXjBacI06oC07wCs8ECncICscIC48sC+NIC+9MC1uUCAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Jade Druid

### Jade
# Class: Druid
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Jade Idol
# 2x (1) Lesser Jasper Spellstone
# 2x (2) Wild Growth
# 2x (2) Wrath
# 2x (3) Jade Blossom
# 1x (4) Fandral Staghelm
# 2x (4) Jade Spirit
# 2x (4) Mire Keeper
# 2x (4) Swipe
# 2x (5) Arcane Tyrant
# 2x (5) Nourish
# 1x (6) Aya Blackpaw
# 2x (6) Jade Behemoth
# 2x (6) Spreading Plague
# 1x (7) Malfurion the Pestilent
# 1x (10) Kun the Forgotten King
# 2x (10) Ultimate Infestation
#
AAECAZICBK6rAuC7ApS9ApnTAg1AX8QG5Ai+rgK0uwLLvALPvALdvgKgzQKHzgKY0gLb0wIA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Face Hunter

### Face
# Class: Hunter
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Alleycat
# 2x (1) Candleshot
# 2x (1) Dire Mole
# 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
# 2x (1) Southsea Deckhand
# 2x (2) Crackling Razormaw
# 2x (2) Dire Wolf Alpha
# 2x (3) Animal Companion
# 2x (3) Eaglehorn Bow
# 2x (3) Kill Command
# 2x (3) Southsea Captain
# 2x (4) Flanking Strike
# 2x (4) Houndmaster
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 1x (5) Leeroy Jenkins
# 2x (7) Corridor Creeper
#
AAECAYoWAq8EkbwCDqgCtQOoBdQF2QfrB/4M6rsCjsMCyssC3dIC+9MC4eMCi+UCAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Control Lock

### Control
# Class: Warlock
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 1x (1) Dark Pact
# 2x (1) Kobold Librarian
# 2x (1) Mistress of Mixtures
# 2x (1) Mortal Coil
# 2x (2) Defile
# 2x (2) Dirty Rat
# 2x (2) Gnomeferatu
# 1x (2) Tainted Zealot
# 2x (3) Stonehill Defender
# 1x (4) Hellfire
# 2x (4) Lesser Amethyst Spellstone
# 2x (5) Possessed Lackey
# 1x (6) Rin, the First Disciple
# 2x (6) Siphon Soul
# 2x (8) Twisting Nether
# 2x (9) Voidlord
# 1x (10) Bloodreaver Gul'dan
# 1x (10) N'Zoth, the Corruptor
#
AAECAf0GBrYH4KwC+NACl9MC2OcCl+gCDNsGxAjMCJvCAt7EAt/EAufLAq7NAvLQAojSAvzlAujnAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Pirate Warrior, this is probably bad

### Pirate
# Class: Warrior
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Bloodsail Corsair
# 2x (1) N'Zoth's First Mate
# 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
# 2x (1) Southsea Deckhand
# 1x (2) Prince Keleseth
# 2x (3) Bloodsail Cultist
# 2x (3) Fiery War Axe
# 2x (3) Frothing Berserker
# 2x (3) Southsea Captain
# 2x (4) Dread Corsair
# 2x (4) Kor'kron Elite
# 2x (5) Arcanite Reaper
# 2x (5) Bittertide Hydra
# 2x (6) Spiteful Summoner
# 2x (7) Corridor Creeper
# 2x (7) Lesser Mithril Spellstone
#
AAECAQcCkbwCnOICDhywApEDjgWoBdQF7gblB4KwAoiwAq/CAvvTAs/jAtfrAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Satellite Priest

### Big
# Class: Priest
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Northshire Cleric
# 2x (2) Faerie Dragon
# 2x (2) Netherspite Historian
# 1x (3) Curious Glimmerroot
# 2x (3) Kabal Talonpriest
# 1x (3) Mind Control Tech
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (4) Duskbreaker
# 1x (4) Spellbreaker
# 1x (4) Twilight Drake
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 2x (5) Drakonid Operative
# 2x (6) Spiteful Summoner
# 2x (7) Bonemare
# 1x (7) Corridor Creeper
# 2x (8) Free From Amber
# 1x (8) Grand Archivist
# 2x (10) Mind Control
#
AAECAa0GBt4F8gWNCNnBAvvTAtDnAgwI4QTyDIK1Arq7AvC7AsrDApnIAsrLAqbOAsvmAtfrAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

forty

Fearghaill wrote: »

Returning to the game so late, I think I've just been operating on the assumption that I'm never going to be able to try out every popular deck

KFT's Tempo Rogue and Big/Razakus Priest decks? Ha, no. I just kind of took that for granted and looked for cheaper decks I could work towards, and picked a handful of classes to focus on (Mage, Hunter, Warlock) and a couple that I'm just never going to worry about (Shaman, Warrior)

tl;dr the magic of lowered expectations is a powerful thing?

Hearthstone: Lower your expectations before you play it!

What a tagline! Looks like they've just got a great new marketing campaign.

forty

Beasteh wrote: »

### Taunt
# Class: Warrior
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#

# 1x (1) Fire Plume's Heart
# 1x (1) Whirlwind
# 1x (2) Dirty Rat
# 2x (2) Drywhisker Armorer
# 2x (2) Execute
# 2x (2) Sleep with the Fishes
# 2x (3) Acolyte of Pain
# 1x (3) Ravaging Ghoul
# 2x (3) Stonehill Defender
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (4) Blood Razor
# 1x (4) Saronite Chain Gang
# 2x (5) Alley Armorsmith
# 2x (5) Brawl
# 1x (5) Direhorn Hatchling
# 1x (5) Harrison Jones
# 2x (6) Gemstudded Golem
# 1x (7) The Curator
# 2x (8) Primordial Drake
#
AAECAYwWCPwEkAeCrQK5sgLTwwLfxAKixwKbywILS5EG+wz+vAKbwgLGwwLKwwLJxwLMzQLL5wLP5wIA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Oh come now, that's not "playing a taunt every turn." That's just a pretty standard quest warrior. I was hoping to see something bold and insane.

emnmnme

Beasteh wrote: »

i am having a grand old time with taunt warrior

it's very no nonsense

i am going to play a taunt every turn until i get rag then you are going to die

also all of your shit is getting removed PINT-SIZED POTION + HORROR

Phyphor

I needed a gnome to post. wrote: »

on the flip side, aluneth and val'anyr might be the first time we've gotten class legendaries for aggro decks, ever?

which, i don't think they were necessarily intended to be, but

How can drawing 4 cards a turn be intended for other than an aggro deck?

Yilias

I'm happy to see Blade Flurry being played again. I thought that card was dead for sure.

UnbrokenEva

Ran into 2 opponents in a row playing Eater of Secrets while I was playing my minionless hunter, that was fun.

Then I switched to Big Spell Priest and pulled a Duskbreaker on turn 3 to play on turn 4 to stall an aggro paladin long enough to get a primordial drake from Spiteful Summoner and really put the brakes on them

Beasteh

Just had a control paladin play that hungry ettin 4/10 taunt

It spawned a stubborn gastropod

Good Game

Dibby

Phyphor wrote: »

I needed a gnome to post. wrote: »

on the flip side, aluneth and val'anyr might be the first time we've gotten class legendaries for aggro decks, ever?

which, i don't think they were necessarily intended to be, but

How can drawing 4 cards a turn be intended for other than an aggro deck?

Secrets Mage is more like a really fast Tempo deck than a straight up Aggro deck though, right

You're not flooding the board with weenies and jamming face. You're dropping dudes on curve, trading out, establishing board, getting tempo swings with Kabal Lackey/Kirin Tor, controlling board with Secrets. The usual Midrange-y plan.

If there were an actual Aggro Mage deck though, it'd run this for sure.

GoodKingJayIII

The other day I was thinking how insane Aluneth would be if we still had Ice Lance.

Variable

in SEVEN games I've pulled an early 3/9taunt monster one single time. every other time I draw them before the card that can pull them, and frequently I draw the two 9 costers in the first 4 hands

having said that, I've also only lost 1 game. I'm using the list from Toast that was post in the last thread.

I assume this will start to turn around and I'll find myself unable to win anything so expect that rant in a few hours

Variable

Roz wrote: »

kime wrote: »

Beasteh wrote: »

voidlord is possibly the most unfun thing to face as aggro

its a sludge belcher on steroids

It wouldn't be bad at nine mana! Unfortunately no one ever actually spends nine mana to play it :P

People very unexcited about recruit and I was trying to warn people that it's a very powerful mechanic. If not done right, it can be incredibly oppressive.

It feels real close to that point right now.

I had trouble feeling any way about it because it took me so long to understand it. once I did it seemed great to me. you can dictate it fairly well..... only issue being obviously relying on DRAW ORDER

Sensational

Kobol Monk just won me a game.

Tynnan

inb4 opp rips Medivh and slaps you for lethal

Yilias

He's also dead to Fireball and Polymorph.

PiptheFair

I needed a gnome to post. wrote: »

i've said it before and i'll say it again, a huge problem with hearthstone is that goofy fun cards cost as much as competitive staples

if you wanted to build a goofy king togwoggle deck in a physical game you could probably pick him up for a quarter, but because of the dust economy he's as expensive as the most powerful legendary in the game

eternal's way of handling dust is so much better

it's still got a lot of problems with economizing dust, but getting all your dust back for a crafted card is really nice

Phyphor

Dibby wrote: »

Phyphor wrote: »

I needed a gnome to post. wrote: »

on the flip side, aluneth and val'anyr might be the first time we've gotten class legendaries for aggro decks, ever?

which, i don't think they were necessarily intended to be, but

How can drawing 4 cards a turn be intended for other than an aggro deck?

Secrets Mage is more like a really fast Tempo deck than a straight up Aggro deck though, right

You're not flooding the board with weenies and jamming face. You're dropping dudes on curve, trading out, establishing board, getting tempo swings with Kabal Lackey/Kirin Tor, controlling board with Secrets. The usual Midrange-y plan.

If there were an actual Aggro Mage deck though, it'd run this for sure.

Okay it's not an aggro deck in the sense that it smorcs from turn 1 with 1/1s, but it is a deck which will happily run out of cards very quickly. Half the deck is 1 or 2 mana and depending on the variant you have 4 to 8 "cheated" minions/secrets. Aluneth lists tend to be tuned to be more aggro-y/cheap cards too

I needed anime to post.

Phyphor wrote: »

I needed a gnome to post. wrote: »

on the flip side, aluneth and val'anyr might be the first time we've gotten class legendaries for aggro decks, ever?

which, i don't think they were necessarily intended to be, but

How can drawing 4 cards a turn be intended for other than an aggro deck?

Freeze mage existed once

Lucedes

i've been continuing to climb the ladder with big spell dragon priest (feat. keleseth), which is edited from a deck posted in this thread.
i think i had an undefeated streak from 13 to 10.

list behind spoiler!

### Big Spell Dragon Priest
# Class: Priest
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Northshire Cleric
# 1x (2) Prince Keleseth
# 2x (3) Curious Glimmerroot
# 2x (3) Kabal Talonpriest
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (3) Twilight Acolyte
# 2x (4) Duskbreaker
# 1x (4) Twilight Drake
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 2x (5) Drakonid Operative
# 1x (6) Skulking Geist
# 2x (6) Spiteful Summoner
# 2x (7) Bonemare
# 2x (7) Corridor Creeper
# 2x (8) Free From Amber
# 1x (8) Grand Archivist
# 2x (10) Mind Control
#
AAECAa0GBI0IoM4CnOIC0OcCDQjyDLq7AvC7AtnBAsrDApnIAsrLAqbOAvvTAsvmAvzqAtfrAgA=

i have beaten 3 control warlocks through fatigue so far, because the value never ends!
also i've beaten a lot of meme hunters and a few jade druids, but i think jade is a very tough matchup so i added one geist.

this list is still a little unrefined, but it has a lot of room for sweet tech choices.
also you can totally cut keleseth and the deck has no legendary cards (but a lot of weird-ass epics).

mulligan hard for duskbreaker and a dragon against any kind of aggro.