Lorincz, 18, alleged Engler offered to cut her a check for $250,000 to drop the suit, even after she insisted that she was only interested in helping solve the problem. The crowd gasped as Lorincz spoke about how Engler tried to dismiss her claims and castigated her for simply trying to score money with the lawsuit.
“Mr. Engler then looked directly at me and asked, ‘Right now if I wrote you a check for $250,000 would you take it?’ When I explained that it’s not about the money for me and that I just want to help, he said, ‘well give me a number.’”
The board then tried to cut her off, and police even approached the podium, but Lorincz managed to finish reading her statement after attendees in the meeting chanted “Let her speak!”
The end of Lorincz’s statement was scathing, as she said of MSU, “They tried to make us feel like we were the problem and MSU was the victim because of the civil suits. This is how it works. When you protect and promote a sexual predator and foster a culture of lies and cover-ups, you are responsible.”
Holy shitsnacks.
E: Quoted because of course that's the page break.
Ilpala on
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
"When I explained that it’s not about the money for me and that I just want to help, he said, 'Well give me a number.' He also said that he had met with Rachael Denhollander and that she gave him a number."
Denhollander said in a phone conversation Friday afternoon that she hasn't spoken about money to anybody and that she was "horrified, absolutely disgusted" that Engler would lie to Lorincz about meeting with her.
"He lied to a sexual assault survivor to get what he wanted," she said. "That’s what Larry (Nassar) did."
So while offering a payoff to one victim, he lied about another victim taking a payoff.
Now I'll expect him to lie about this conversation taking place at all.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+5
Options
knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Pretty disgusting that they’ve got police right there ready to go when they want to shut someone up. And that the police apparently just go along with it.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Like they replaced one rich old bureaucrat with another rich old bureaucrat and expected that to fix things. Surprise, none of these executive class people give a fuck about the students. They're there to make sure the university is making money and continues to make more and more money forever.
Maybe MSU just shouldn't have a president or a board of trustees anymore? Maybe it should just be run by a council of taxpayers, students and faculty and fuck all these MBA suits? Is there any precedent for that?
+1
Options
lwt1973King of ThievesSyndicationRegistered Userregular
MSU spokesperson Emily Guerrant was in the meeting with Engler. In a conversation with Lisa Lorincz following the board meeting Friday morning, Guerrant said her interpretation had been that Engler wasn't offering a settlement, but engaging in a “philosophical discussion” about what amount would be appropriate.
I just...you're asking a victim in a hypothetical world how much it would take to buy you off? You were supposed to help Engler, not accuse ESPN of having their own problems and not to try and buy off a victim.
"He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
Like they replaced one rich old bureaucrat with another rich old bureaucrat and expected that to fix things. Surprise, none of these executive class people give a fuck about the students. They're there to make sure the university is making money and continues to make more and more money forever.
Maybe MSU just shouldn't have a president or a board of trustees anymore? Maybe it should just be run by a council of taxpayers, students and faculty and fuck all these MBA suits? Is there any precedent for that?
I mean, we elected these morons, because nobody takes the elections seriously. I'm not even sure if I voted for MSU or Wayne State trustees, actually. I definitely vote for Michigan regents though.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Except for relentless Engler backer the Detroit News, seems to be the lead story in every news outlet in the state, despite Washington's madness. So that's interesting.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
MSU spokesperson Emily Guerrant was in the meeting with Engler. In a conversation with Lisa Lorincz following the board meeting Friday morning, Guerrant said her interpretation had been that Engler wasn't offering a settlement, but engaging in a “philosophical discussion” about what amount would be appropriate.
I just...you're asking a victim in a hypothetical world how much it would take to buy you off? You were supposed to help Engler, not accuse ESPN of having their own problems and not to try and buy off a victim.
even under the most charitable reading, "Please quantify your suffering in monetary value" is a disgusting hypothetical question anyway
It's like they watched Penn State and Baylor, and just said "hold my beer."
I can't help but wonder whether UVA was actually innocent of the Rolling Stone accusations, or they just got lucky that reporter was sloppy.
Because this seems fucking systemic.
I believe the UVA Rolling Stone thing was about a fraternity, not sporting-related directly.
My takeaway from the whole thing was that the reporter managed to stumble on one allegation that wasn't actually true, amidst a likely sea of horrible offenses.
(I'm still with the "burn it all down" camp for MSU and frats in general)
MSU spokesperson Emily Guerrant was in the meeting with Engler. In a conversation with Lisa Lorincz following the board meeting Friday morning, Guerrant said her interpretation had been that Engler wasn't offering a settlement, but engaging in a “philosophical discussion” about what amount would be appropriate.
I just...you're asking a victim in a hypothetical world how much it would take to buy you off? You were supposed to help Engler, not accuse ESPN of having their own problems and not to try and buy off a victim.
even under the most charitable reading, "Please quantify your suffering in monetary value" is a disgusting hypothetical question anyway
It's a sadly unsurprising one, given how most people who are in favor of, or indifferent to, these kinds of large-scale institutional abuses have convinced themselves anyone who complains about it is only after money. Ditto people who look at things like this strictly in terms of legal liability and not in terms of right or wrong.
"We need to move on from this because My Taxpayer Dollars! Never mind the harm."
Engler is the replacement university president appointed to clean all this up, right?
Yep
I remain against the burn it all down sentiment, but how in the fuck do they not have a third party overseeing this yet. Control of restaffing, investigating, and reshaping policy should have been given to someone who has no interest in making sure MSU stays profitable, and a ton of interest in making sure that nobody gets away with sexual assault.
edit - only once the third party feels satisfied that these issues are as mitigated as humanly possible, only then would you bring in someone who wants to try and rebuild the MSU brand. And they would obviously be bound to work within the limits set by the initial cleanup team.
Jebus314 on
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
MSU spokesperson Emily Guerrant was in the meeting with Engler. In a conversation with Lisa Lorincz following the board meeting Friday morning, Guerrant said her interpretation had been that Engler wasn't offering a settlement, but engaging in a “philosophical discussion” about what amount would be appropriate.
I just...you're asking a victim in a hypothetical world how much it would take to buy you off? You were supposed to help Engler, not accuse ESPN of having their own problems and not to try and buy off a victim.
even under the most charitable reading, "Please quantify your suffering in monetary value" is a disgusting hypothetical question anyway
its also infuriating because they still dont get it, its about punishing MSU, not finding an amount the victim wants so they can feel better. So the answer to "whats the number?" is "whatever would hurt MSU the most and make them never pull this shit again"
So, all of it you fuckers. The answer is all of your fucking money.
I wonder how long Engler stays after this. Because there's no rebuilding their reputation with him as the institution's face.
Of course, at this point, I think said institution has to be rebuilt from the ground up. Th entire administrative body needs to be replaced.
I recall when he was hired our michigan posters said he was bad back then. So I doubt this effects his ability to stay because the people who can change it probably backed the sentiment in the first place.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
MSU spokesperson Emily Guerrant was in the meeting with Engler. In a conversation with Lisa Lorincz following the board meeting Friday morning, Guerrant said her interpretation had been that Engler wasn't offering a settlement, but engaging in a “philosophical discussion” about what amount would be appropriate.
I just...you're asking a victim in a hypothetical world how much it would take to buy you off? You were supposed to help Engler, not accuse ESPN of having their own problems and not to try and buy off a victim.
even under the most charitable reading, "Please quantify your suffering in monetary value" is a disgusting hypothetical question anyway
its also infuriating because they still dont get it, its about punishing MSU, not finding an amount the victim wants so they can feel better. So the answer to "whats the number?" is "whatever would hurt MSU the most and make them never pull this shit again"
So, all of it you fuckers. The answer is all of your fucking money.
It is about systemic changes that make any institution want to work to prevent things like the ones discussed in this thread from ever happening again, and to make a cover-up even more unpalatable than dealing with the situation.
Biggest of the Spartan homers in the state media is now calling for Engler and all the Trustees to resign. That dude has written some truly ridiculous and stupid shit defending MSU in the last three years, if he is turning on them, wow.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I'm curious whether anyone has been looking into other universities. For MSU to have gotten away with getting as bad as it has for so long, it can't have been that much of an aberration. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a ton of other stories out there waiting to be broken, now that the public will pay attention.
I'm curious whether anyone has been looking into other universities. For MSU to have gotten away with getting as bad as it has for so long, it can't have been that much of an aberration. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a ton of other stories out there waiting to be broken, now that the public will pay attention.
It's already been happening for many years. See Baylor, Oregon, Penn State, etc. This isn't anything that hasn't been in the news before.
I'm curious whether anyone has been looking into other universities. For MSU to have gotten away with getting as bad as it has for so long, it can't have been that much of an aberration. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a ton of other stories out there waiting to be broken, now that the public will pay attention.
It's already been happening for many years. See Baylor, Oregon, Penn State, etc. This isn't anything that hasn't been in the news before.
Yeah, MSU is only unique in scope, not kind. The problem is that there really isn't any will to push for real reform, if it means upsetting the cart.
I'm curious whether anyone has been looking into other universities. For MSU to have gotten away with getting as bad as it has for so long, it can't have been that much of an aberration. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a ton of other stories out there waiting to be broken, now that the public will pay attention.
It's already been happening for many years. See Baylor, Oregon, Penn State, etc. This isn't anything that hasn't been in the news before.
Yeah, MSU is only unique in scope, not kind. The problem is that there really isn't any will to push for real reform, if it means upsetting the cart.
Biggest of the Spartan homers in the state media is now calling for Engler and all the Trustees to resign. That dude has written some truly ridiculous and stupid shit defending MSU in the last three years, if he is turning on them, wow.
Speaking as a fellow Michigan resident, I can confirm that if Graham Couch is calling MSU out on its bullshit, they done fucked up real bad. I mean, this is the guy who was an MSU homer when he was still writing the Western Michigan beat for the Kalamazoo paper.
I'm curious whether anyone has been looking into other universities. For MSU to have gotten away with getting as bad as it has for so long, it can't have been that much of an aberration. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a ton of other stories out there waiting to be broken, now that the public will pay attention.
It's already been happening for many years. See Baylor, Oregon, Penn State, etc. This isn't anything that hasn't been in the news before.
Yeah, MSU is only unique in scope, not kind. The problem is that there really isn't any will to push for real reform, if it means upsetting the cart.
Atleast we hope it is.
I would be surprised if there weren't other huge ones like this out there. All it takes is business as usual at these schools and someone with access to enough children.
Jordyn Wieber has filed what I think is a separate lawsuit (rather than join the existing one) against the USOC, USAG, MSU, Nassar, Steve Penny, Paul Parrilla, and a whole bunch of other people. Among other things they allege that USAG, Penny, and Parilla conspired to destroy the medical records of Nassar's patients.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
0
Options
lwt1973King of ThievesSyndicationRegistered Userregular
Jordyn Wieber has filed what I think is a separate lawsuit (rather than join the existing one) against the USOC, USAG, MSU, Nassar, Steve Penny, Paul Parrilla, and a whole bunch of other people. Among other things they allege that USAG, Penny, and Parilla conspired to destroy the medical records of Nassar's patients.
Incoming statement from Engler saying that tuition is going to go up another 1% for some strange reason.
"He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
0
Options
RobonunIt's all fun and games until someone pisses off ChinaRegistered Userregular
If I knew where my MSU diploma was, I would wipe myself with it and mail it back postage due.
The special counsel to interim Michigan State University president John Engler described a Larry Nassar accuser’s claim that Engler had offered her money to settle a lawsuit without her lawyer present as “false news,” the Detroit News reports.
The accuser, 19-year-old Kaylee Lorincz, told the MSU board of trustees on April 13 that Engler had interrupted a broader discussion during a meeting that MSU special counsel Carol Viventi was attending—but that Lorincz’s attorney was not—to ask Lorincz and her mother if they would drop their participation in one of the ongoing civil cases against the school in exchange for “a check for $250,000.” Lorincz also alleged that Engler had minimized the misconduct of Nassar’s boss, former dean of osteopathic medicine William Strampel, by describing the behavior Strampel was fired for as “a slap on the butt”; Strampel has been charged criminally with groping two students, soliciting nude photos from multiple students, and failing to properly supervise Nassar. Lorincz further said that Engler told her that Nassar’s first public accuser, Rachael Denhollander, had named an amount for which she was willing to settle during a meeting; Denhollander says she has not met with Engler and did not give him such a figure.
The Lansing State Journal subsequently reported that a Michigan State spokeswoman said Engler broached the subject of settlement in order to have a “philosophical discussion” about the case and that he was not making an official offer. Engler said in a statement that Michigan State officials’ “memories and interpretations” of the meeting with Lorincz are different than hers. What the Detroit News is now reporting is that Viventi, Engler’s special counsel, took issue with Lorincz’s account in an aggressive email to trustees over the weekend. From the email:
Kaylee’s statements to the Board contained many false and inaccurate statements, which we did not publicly contradict out of an abundance of concern for the survivors who are quick to claim ‘revictimization’ or ‘shaming’ of survivors whenever they are falsely accusing members of the MSU community.
Posts
Holy shitsnacks.
E: Quoted because of course that's the page break.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
This from the Lansing State Journal:
So while offering a payoff to one victim, he lied about another victim taking a payoff.
Now I'll expect him to lie about this conversation taking place at all.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
pleasepaypreacher.net
Prison, please
I can't help but wonder whether UVA was actually innocent of the Rolling Stone accusations, or they just got lucky that reporter was sloppy.
Because this seems fucking systemic.
Maybe MSU just shouldn't have a president or a board of trustees anymore? Maybe it should just be run by a council of taxpayers, students and faculty and fuck all these MBA suits? Is there any precedent for that?
I just...you're asking a victim in a hypothetical world how much it would take to buy you off? You were supposed to help Engler, not accuse ESPN of having their own problems and not to try and buy off a victim.
I mean, we elected these morons, because nobody takes the elections seriously. I'm not even sure if I voted for MSU or Wayne State trustees, actually. I definitely vote for Michigan regents though.
even under the most charitable reading, "Please quantify your suffering in monetary value" is a disgusting hypothetical question anyway
I believe the UVA Rolling Stone thing was about a fraternity, not sporting-related directly.
My takeaway from the whole thing was that the reporter managed to stumble on one allegation that wasn't actually true, amidst a likely sea of horrible offenses.
(I'm still with the "burn it all down" camp for MSU and frats in general)
It's a sadly unsurprising one, given how most people who are in favor of, or indifferent to, these kinds of large-scale institutional abuses have convinced themselves anyone who complains about it is only after money. Ditto people who look at things like this strictly in terms of legal liability and not in terms of right or wrong.
"We need to move on from this because My Taxpayer Dollars! Never mind the harm."
There are no words for all of this stuff. No words at all.
Most of us in Michigan knew what kind of a sleaze Engler was, but this is just... ugh.
Burn MSU to the ground and have them look up at us Directional Michigans for how to run a damned school and sports team.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Yep
That's going well, then.
I remain against the burn it all down sentiment, but how in the fuck do they not have a third party overseeing this yet. Control of restaffing, investigating, and reshaping policy should have been given to someone who has no interest in making sure MSU stays profitable, and a ton of interest in making sure that nobody gets away with sexual assault.
edit - only once the third party feels satisfied that these issues are as mitigated as humanly possible, only then would you bring in someone who wants to try and rebuild the MSU brand. And they would obviously be bound to work within the limits set by the initial cleanup team.
its also infuriating because they still dont get it, its about punishing MSU, not finding an amount the victim wants so they can feel better. So the answer to "whats the number?" is "whatever would hurt MSU the most and make them never pull this shit again"
So, all of it you fuckers. The answer is all of your fucking money.
Of course, at this point, I think said institution has to be rebuilt from the ground up. Th entire administrative body needs to be replaced.
I recall when he was hired our michigan posters said he was bad back then. So I doubt this effects his ability to stay because the people who can change it probably backed the sentiment in the first place.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This is basically the response paraphrased:
It is about systemic changes that make any institution want to work to prevent things like the ones discussed in this thread from ever happening again, and to make a cover-up even more unpalatable than dealing with the situation.
And not the same way they did with Engler.
It's already been happening for many years. See Baylor, Oregon, Penn State, etc. This isn't anything that hasn't been in the news before.
Yeah, MSU is only unique in scope, not kind. The problem is that there really isn't any will to push for real reform, if it means upsetting the cart.
Atleast we hope it is.
Speaking as a fellow Michigan resident, I can confirm that if Graham Couch is calling MSU out on its bullshit, they done fucked up real bad. I mean, this is the guy who was an MSU homer when he was still writing the Western Michigan beat for the Kalamazoo paper.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
I would be surprised if there weren't other huge ones like this out there. All it takes is business as usual at these schools and someone with access to enough children.
Incoming statement from Engler saying that tuition is going to go up another 1% for some strange reason.
Right. Pull the other one, it has bells on.
Also love the scare quotes around "revictimization" and "shaming."