But Trump — who trusts no one, or at least no one for long — has now decided that he must have an alternative strategy that does not involve having Justice Department officials fire Mueller.
"I think he's been convinced that firing Mueller would not only create a firestorm, it would play right into Mueller's hands," said another friend, "because it would give Mueller the moral high ground."
Instead, as is now becoming plain, the Trump strategy is to discredit the investigation and the FBI without officially removing the leadership. Trump is even talking to friends about the possibility of asking Attorney General Jeff Sessions to consider prosecuting Mueller and his team.
"Here's how it would work: 'We're sorry, Mr. Mueller, you won't be able to run the federal grand jury today because he has to go testify to another federal grand jury,'" said one Trump adviser.
Even just seriously talking about this should be grounds for impeachment. What the hell?
Have we mentioned yet today how this is Stupid Watergate?
But Trump — who trusts no one, or at least no one for long — has now decided that he must have an alternative strategy that does not involve having Justice Department officials fire Mueller.
"I think he's been convinced that firing Mueller would not only create a firestorm, it would play right into Mueller's hands," said another friend, "because it would give Mueller the moral high ground."
Instead, as is now becoming plain, the Trump strategy is to discredit the investigation and the FBI without officially removing the leadership. Trump is even talking to friends about the possibility of asking Attorney General Jeff Sessions to consider prosecuting Mueller and his team.
"Here's how it would work: 'We're sorry, Mr. Mueller, you won't be able to run the federal grand jury today because he has to go testify to another federal grand jury,'" said one Trump adviser.
Even just seriously talking about this should be grounds for impeachment. What the hell?
So, um. Let me get this straight.. they think it would be better to prosecute Mueller than to fire him? I'm not actually sure which is worse... they both fall into the bad category. Either is blatant and obvious obstruction.
But we're talking about people who still want to jail Hillary. So yeah.. just dig yourself deeper.
Ryan is emphasizing that the FISA stuff in the memo needs to be kept separate from Mueller’s investigation, which he says needs to be allowed to continue.
He still manages to throw some shade on the FBI and DOJ, but that he’s getting ahead of it being used as cover to end the investigation is interesting. Maybe he knows that the contents are so flimsy that trying to make it more than it is is a terrible idea.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Ryan is emphasizing that the FISA stuff in the memo needs to be kept separate from Mueller’s investigation, which he says needs to be allowed to continue.
He still manages to throw some shade on the FBI and DOJ, but that he’s getting ahead of it being used as cover to end the investigation is interesting. Maybe he knows that the contents are so flimsy that trying to make it more than it is is a terrible idea.
He could also be worried about his own skin
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Ryan is emphasizing that the FISA stuff in the memo needs to be kept separate from Mueller’s investigation, which he says needs to be allowed to continue.
He still manages to throw some shade on the FBI and DOJ, but that he’s getting ahead of it being used as cover to end the investigation is interesting. Maybe he knows that the contents are so flimsy that trying to make it more than it is is a terrible idea.
Or this gives him cover to be "absolutely shocked" at what will be found.
House Speaker Paul Ryan called Tuesday to “cleanse” the FBI as he openly backed the release of a controversial memo that purportedly details alleged surveillance abuses by the U.S. government.
“Let it all out, get it all out there. Cleanse the organization,” Ryan, R-Wis., said.
He added: “I think we should disclose all this stuff. It’s the best disinfectant. Accountability, transparency -- for the sake of the reputation of our institutions.”
He said problems at the FBI and the Justice Department should be cleaned out, while “covering up mischief would be worse.”
That looks a lot like ginning up some charges against the FBI as an excuse for a cleansing.
There is never a situation where "cleanse the organization" does not sound creepy.
House Speaker Paul Ryan called for a "cleanse" of the FBI and the release of a classified GOP memo that allegedly outlines surveillance abuse against the Trump campaign, Fox News reported Tuesday.
House Speaker Paul Ryan called Tuesday to “cleanse” the FBI as he openly backed the release of a controversial memo that purportedly details alleged surveillance abuses by the U.S. government.
“Let it all out, get it all out there. Cleanse the organization,” Ryan, R-Wis., said.
He added: “I think we should disclose all this stuff. It’s the best disinfectant. Accountability, transparency -- for the sake of the reputation of our institutions.”
He said problems at the FBI and the Justice Department should be cleaned out, while “covering up mischief would be worse.”
That looks a lot like ginning up some charges against the FBI as an excuse for a cleansing.
There is never a situation where "cleanse the organization" does not sound creepy.
Why do I get the feeling Trump is totally going to announce this shit during SOTU, just so he can get a couple thousand people cheering at him over it.
House Speaker Paul Ryan called Tuesday to “cleanse” the FBI as he openly backed the release of a controversial memo that purportedly details alleged surveillance abuses by the U.S. government.
“Let it all out, get it all out there. Cleanse the organization,” Ryan, R-Wis., said.
He added: “I think we should disclose all this stuff. It’s the best disinfectant. Accountability, transparency -- for the sake of the reputation of our institutions.”
He said problems at the FBI and the Justice Department should be cleaned out, while “covering up mischief would be worse.”
That looks a lot like ginning up some charges against the FBI as an excuse for a cleansing.
There is never a situation where "cleanse the organization" does not sound creepy.
Cleanse it of what exactly? Are they going to start some sort of purity test? Demanding loyalty oaths? Isn't the idea of a loyalty oath part of what led Comey to getting fired?
I would support getting rid of the rabid people who were (and I guess still are?) in the NY branch. Those folks shouldn't have jobs any more.
House Speaker Paul Ryan called for a "cleanse" of the FBI and the release of a classified GOP memo that allegedly outlines surveillance abuse against the Trump campaign, Fox News reported Tuesday.
House Speaker Paul Ryan called Tuesday to “cleanse” the FBI as he openly backed the release of a controversial memo that purportedly details alleged surveillance abuses by the U.S. government.
“Let it all out, get it all out there. Cleanse the organization,” Ryan, R-Wis., said.
He added: “I think we should disclose all this stuff. It’s the best disinfectant. Accountability, transparency -- for the sake of the reputation of our institutions.”
He said problems at the FBI and the Justice Department should be cleaned out, while “covering up mischief would be worse.”
That looks a lot like ginning up some charges against the FBI as an excuse for a cleansing.
There is never a situation where "cleanse the organization" does not sound creepy.
Cleanse it of what exactly? Are they going to start some sort of purity test? Demanding loyalty oaths? Isn't the idea of a loyalty oath part of what led Comey to getting fired?
I would support getting rid of the rabid people who were (and I guess still are?) in the NY branch. Those folks shouldn't have jobs any more.
DoJ already has a loyalty oath. But it's to the Constitution, not Dear Leader.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
You know, Ryan's not wrong... We do need more transparency and accountability.
The problem is the bias inherent in who is doing the cleansing, and the hypocrisy.
Also, why is anyone assuming that Mueller's the only one who can present this evidence? He has a team - he can just have one of his deputies go if he gets called to another grand jury.
Why do I get the feeling Trump is totally going to announce this shit during SOTU, just so he can get a couple thousand people cheering at him over it.
That is a hell of a bet. Anybody the least bit political minded is going to be thinking there are a billion cameras around and if they cheer for a de facto coup it better fucking work.
I do not think the GOP has that much faith in Trump.
The dumbest shit is Don Jr calling for the memo's release.
Like... Hey, just go ask daddy to do that, you fucking twat.
I'm reminded of discussion in 2000/early 2001 where Bush constantly promised things outside of his power, but then some specific thing super popular with his base (and I can't fucking remember what it was) where he said in an interview, "I don't think the President has any authority over the FDA." The public needs better education on what the President can and can't do, but a few of our presidents need it just as much.
On Tuesday, a Treasury Department spokesperson confirmed to BuzzFeed News that the unclassified annex of the report was derived from Forbes’ ranking of the “200 richest businessmen in Russia 2017.”
The revelation is likely to invite criticisms of the thoroughness of the Treasury Department’s report and reinforce the notion that the list is primarily a who’s who of Russian elite rather than an official accounting of Kremlin-linked political corruption as some US lawmakers intended.
Oh for fuck's sake. What, did their dog eat the real list or something?
They turned it in minutes before the deadline. This is a term paper slapped together in the library during lunch on exam day.
It is more like a term paper slapped together in the library during lunch on exam day after you destroyed a perfectly fine term paper for no good reason.
However, according to the Atlantic Council’s Anders Åslund, the final list was actually a last-minute replacement – one that took the place of another list, compiled by experts, that actually aimed at detailing those close to the Kremlin.
At the last minute, however, somebody high up – no one knows who at this point – threw out the experts’ work and instead wrote down the names of the top officials in the Russian presidential administration and government plus the 96 Russian billionaires on the Forbes list. In doing so, this senior official ridiculed the government experts who had prepared another report, rendering CAATSA ineffective and mocking US sanctions on Russia overall. By signing this list, the secretary of the treasury took responsibility for it.
Why do I get the feeling Trump is totally going to announce this shit during SOTU, just so he can get a couple thousand people cheering at him over it.
That is a hell of a bet. Anybody the least bit political minded is going to be thinking there are a billion cameras around and if they cheer for a de facto coup it better fucking work.
I do not think the GOP has that much faith in Trump.
I don't think they do either, but they have an iron grip on all three branches, and I'll wager they have plenty of faith in themselves and their base.
Why do I get the feeling Trump is totally going to announce this shit during SOTU, just so he can get a couple thousand people cheering at him over it.
That is a hell of a bet. Anybody the least bit political minded is going to be thinking there are a billion cameras around and if they cheer for a de facto coup it better fucking work.
I do not think the GOP has that much faith in Trump.
It also assumes he won't say it in the stupidest way possible during his speech. Trump doesn't have the discipline for something like this.
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
There are a lot of statements that sound threatening and disheartening. But I can't help but feel that an organization that is famous for being, you know TRAINED cops who investigate stuff, is not the ones you want to directly piss off everyone , when you are a bunch of cowardly ratfucks who will eat each other when the chips are done and are all idiots
There are a lot of statements that sound threatening and disheartening. But I can't help but feel that an organization that is famous for being, you know TRAINED cops who investigate stuff, is not the ones you want to directly piss off everyone , when you are a bunch of cowardly ratfucks who will eat each other when the chips are done and are all idiots
I would agree with that sentiment, but when the branches that are in charge of both making and enforcing laws have decided that 'laws' are something for the opposition, who do you turn to?
There are a lot of statements that sound threatening and disheartening. But I can't help but feel that an organization that is famous for being, you know TRAINED cops who investigate stuff, is not the ones you want to directly piss off everyone , when you are a bunch of cowardly ratfucks who will eat each other when the chips are done and are all idiots
I would agree with that sentiment, but when the branches that are in charge of both making and enforcing laws have decided that 'laws' are something for the opposition, who do you turn to?
The only one that the investigation might need congress for is the President. Everyone else is absolutely vulnerable.
Why do I get the feeling Trump is totally going to announce this shit during SOTU, just so he can get a couple thousand people cheering at him over it.
That is a hell of a bet. Anybody the least bit political minded is going to be thinking there are a billion cameras around and if they cheer for a de facto coup it better fucking work.
I do not think the GOP has that much faith in Trump.
Either that, or don’t be the first to stop clapping...
This is in jest.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
You know, Ryan's not wrong... We do need more transparency and accountability.
The problem is the bias inherent in who is doing the cleansing, and the hypocrisy.
Also, why is anyone assuming that Mueller's the only one who can present this evidence? He has a team - he can just have one of his deputies go if he gets called to another grand jury.
It’s also absurd to see him calling for transparency in the form of releasing the Republican memo...while refusing to release the memo from Democrats as well.
Why do I get the feeling Trump is totally going to announce this shit during SOTU, just so he can get a couple thousand people cheering at him over it.
That is a hell of a bet. Anybody the least bit political minded is going to be thinking there are a billion cameras around and if they cheer for a de facto coup it better fucking work.
I do not think the GOP has that much faith in Trump.
Either that, or don’t be the first to stop clapping...
This is in jest.
He is know to measure the success of a speech via the amount of time spent applauding it.
I don’t know if he’ll announce the FBI cleanse (let’s think of it as prolifically shitting excess carbs out, it’s less sinister that way), but I wouldn’t be surprised at a mention of the investigation and some idiots applauding what he says about it.
Why do I get the feeling Trump is totally going to announce this shit during SOTU, just so he can get a couple thousand people cheering at him over it.
That is a hell of a bet. Anybody the least bit political minded is going to be thinking there are a billion cameras around and if they cheer for a de facto coup it better fucking work.
I do not think the GOP has that much faith in Trump.
Either that, or don’t be the first to stop clapping...
This is in jest.
He is know to measure the success of a speech via the amount of time spent applauding it.
I don’t know if he’ll announce the FBI cleanse (let’s think of it as prolifically shitting excess carbs out, it’s less sinister that way), but I wouldn’t be surprised at a mention of the investigation and some idiots applauding what he says about it.
I don't think we'll see anything like Saddam purging the Central Committee, but I imagine there will be plenty of talk about how unfair it is that he has to follow all these so-called "laws".
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
really interesting that the GOP starts to give a shit about the fact that the FBI has been overstepping its bounds and violating the constitution right when it starts to actually do its fucking job and scrutinize politicians
My only solace with today's news events is that the entire GOP currently has a stick and is poking a sleeping bear. This used to be a general rule in Washington, you don't fuck with or piss off the FBI, the NSA, or the CIA.
I have a feeling that there is going to be a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes to undermine what the Republicans are doing publicly. The Republicans have very loudly declared war on the intelligence agencies.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
My only solace with today's news events is that the entire GOP currently has a stick and is poking a sleeping bear. This used to be a general rule in Washington, you don't fuck with or piss off the FBI, the NSA, or the CIA.
I have a feeling that there is going to be a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes to undermine what the Republicans are doing publicly. The Republicans have very loudly declared war on the intelligence agencies.
And there is a HUGE republican bias in those agencies, just based on the kinds of people who want to work in places like DoJ, FBI, etc.
This all comes down to idiocy. Had he never fired Comey and defended Flynn, this thing could have died off almost a year ago.
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
really interesting that the GOP starts to give a shit about the fact that the FBI has been overstepping its bounds and violating the constitution right when it starts to actually do its fucking job and scrutinize politicians
Brings to mind The Wire, when they started following the money. The FBI started looking at the money, and where the money goes, there are skeletons. Sometimes literal skeletons!
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
There are a lot of statements that sound threatening and disheartening. But I can't help but feel that an organization that is famous for being, you know TRAINED cops who investigate stuff, is not the ones you want to directly piss off everyone , when you are a bunch of cowardly ratfucks who will eat each other when the chips are done and are all idiots
I would agree with that sentiment, but when the branches that are in charge of both making and enforcing laws have decided that 'laws' are something for the opposition, who do you turn to?
The only one that the investigation might need congress for is the President. Everyone else is absolutely vulnerable.
I kind of wonder if Mueller is lining up cases against congressmen first because that would be a quick wake up call to throw big orange under the bus. And also avoid keeping all the same goddamn people in charge after this is all over (a-la Nixon).
is there any indication that Wray isn't a typical trump nominee? for example, devos is the head of education because she despises education, pruitt is head of environment because he is a captain planet villain, and etc.
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
It is a bit like the FBI and the Democrats on one side and Trump and all of the GOP on the other side are playing a game of chess over who gets the candy bar.
And Trump and the GOP are saying "You know if we stab you in the gut we get the candybar."
And the FBI and the Democrats are saying "Well gee we certainly won't use our own knife to defend ourselves but parts of the audience might get a little grumpy maybe."
And now the GOP and Trump are again realizing that the audience or the umpire can be bought off, and if they can't, a candybar can't be uneaten.
is there any indication that Wray isn't a typical trump nominee? for example, devos is the head of education because she despises education, pruitt is head of environment because he is a captain planet villain, and etc.
He appointed David Bowdich as deputy director after the McCabe announcement, and Bowdich is basically a mini-Mueller when it comes to someone with a hardon for justice. While it seems like he pushed aside Baker and McCabe at Trump's behest, the people they were replaced with (Dana Boente and Bowdich) will honestly be much more of a problem for Trump, if the investigation continues.
is there any indication that Wray isn't a typical trump nominee? for example, devos is the head of education because she despises education, pruitt is head of environment because he is a captain planet villain, and etc.
He appointed David Bowdich as deputy director after the McCabe announcement, and Bowdich is basically a mini-Mueller when it comes to someone with a hardon for justice. While it seems like he pushed aside Baker and McCabe at Trump's behest, the people they were replaced with (Dana Boente and Bowdich) will honestly be much more of a problem for Trump, if the investigation continues.
There is hope in me that the FBI can retaliate to this literal coup. That smart, trained people are setting failsafes and document dumps and are preparing for war with trump and the GOP
The scary thought is if so many of them also chose party over country. I have hope that the answer is no, but I don't have more than hope.
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
There is hope in me that the FBI can retaliate to this literal coup. That smart, trained people are setting failsafes and document dumps and are preparing for war with trump and the GOP
The scary thought is if so many of them also chose party over country. I have hope that the answer is no, but I don't have more than hope.
The FBI inquiry into alleged Russian collusion in the 2016 US presidential election has been given a second memo that independently set out some of the same allegations made in a dossier by Christopher Steele, the British former spy.
Dana Boente was the guy they replaced Sally Yates with who was more than happy to go along with the first Muslim ban.
He was an Obama appointment (apparently specifically requested by Eric Holder), though.
An the Muslim ban was a shit order but it was still a lawful (on its face) order. We can't complain about the President trying to end-run the FBI, while applauding the justice department trying to end-run the President. The government only works if the government works how it is supposed to, for better or worse.
Dana Boente was the guy they replaced Sally Yates with who was more than happy to go along with the first Muslim ban.
He was an Obama appointment (apparently specifically requested by Eric Holder), though.
An the Muslim ban was a shit order but it was still a lawful (on its face) order. We can't complain about the President trying to end-run the FBI, while applauding the justice department trying to end-run the President. The government only works if the government works how it is supposed to, for better or worse.
Yates didn't think it was lawful, that's the point I think. But we're getting off topic a bit here.
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Have we mentioned yet today how this is Stupid Watergate?
So, um. Let me get this straight.. they think it would be better to prosecute Mueller than to fire him? I'm not actually sure which is worse... they both fall into the bad category. Either is blatant and obvious obstruction.
But we're talking about people who still want to jail Hillary. So yeah.. just dig yourself deeper.
Video and article in the link.
Ryan is emphasizing that the FISA stuff in the memo needs to be kept separate from Mueller’s investigation, which he says needs to be allowed to continue.
He still manages to throw some shade on the FBI and DOJ, but that he’s getting ahead of it being used as cover to end the investigation is interesting. Maybe he knows that the contents are so flimsy that trying to make it more than it is is a terrible idea.
He could also be worried about his own skin
Or this gives him cover to be "absolutely shocked" at what will be found.
There is never a situation where "cleanse the organization" does not sound creepy.
http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-ryan-wants-fbi-cleanse-gop-memo-release-2018-1
So they're just explicitly calling for political purges of the Justice Department now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch
Cleanse it of what exactly? Are they going to start some sort of purity test? Demanding loyalty oaths? Isn't the idea of a loyalty oath part of what led Comey to getting fired?
I would support getting rid of the rabid people who were (and I guess still are?) in the NY branch. Those folks shouldn't have jobs any more.
You know that warm/sick/numb feeling when you realize something awful?
I have it right now.
DoJ already has a loyalty oath. But it's to the Constitution, not Dear Leader.
The problem is the bias inherent in who is doing the cleansing, and the hypocrisy.
Also, why is anyone assuming that Mueller's the only one who can present this evidence? He has a team - he can just have one of his deputies go if he gets called to another grand jury.
That is a hell of a bet. Anybody the least bit political minded is going to be thinking there are a billion cameras around and if they cheer for a de facto coup it better fucking work.
I do not think the GOP has that much faith in Trump.
It is more like a term paper slapped together in the library during lunch on exam day after you destroyed a perfectly fine term paper for no good reason.
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-administration-outsources-russia-policy-to-forbes-magazine-95d0eda1becd/
I don't think they do either, but they have an iron grip on all three branches, and I'll wager they have plenty of faith in themselves and their base.
It also assumes he won't say it in the stupidest way possible during his speech. Trump doesn't have the discipline for something like this.
I would agree with that sentiment, but when the branches that are in charge of both making and enforcing laws have decided that 'laws' are something for the opposition, who do you turn to?
The only one that the investigation might need congress for is the President. Everyone else is absolutely vulnerable.
Either that, or don’t be the first to stop clapping...
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
It’s also absurd to see him calling for transparency in the form of releasing the Republican memo...while refusing to release the memo from Democrats as well.
He is know to measure the success of a speech via the amount of time spent applauding it.
I don’t know if he’ll announce the FBI cleanse (let’s think of it as prolifically shitting excess carbs out, it’s less sinister that way), but I wouldn’t be surprised at a mention of the investigation and some idiots applauding what he says about it.
I don't think we'll see anything like Saddam purging the Central Committee, but I imagine there will be plenty of talk about how unfair it is that he has to follow all these so-called "laws".
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I have a feeling that there is going to be a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes to undermine what the Republicans are doing publicly. The Republicans have very loudly declared war on the intelligence agencies.
And there is a HUGE republican bias in those agencies, just based on the kinds of people who want to work in places like DoJ, FBI, etc.
This all comes down to idiocy. Had he never fired Comey and defended Flynn, this thing could have died off almost a year ago.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Brings to mind The Wire, when they started following the money. The FBI started looking at the money, and where the money goes, there are skeletons. Sometimes literal skeletons!
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I kind of wonder if Mueller is lining up cases against congressmen first because that would be a quick wake up call to throw big orange under the bus. And also avoid keeping all the same goddamn people in charge after this is all over (a-la Nixon).
And Trump and the GOP are saying "You know if we stab you in the gut we get the candybar."
And the FBI and the Democrats are saying "Well gee we certainly won't use our own knife to defend ourselves but parts of the audience might get a little grumpy maybe."
And now the GOP and Trump are again realizing that the audience or the umpire can be bought off, and if they can't, a candybar can't be uneaten.
He appointed David Bowdich as deputy director after the McCabe announcement, and Bowdich is basically a mini-Mueller when it comes to someone with a hardon for justice. While it seems like he pushed aside Baker and McCabe at Trump's behest, the people they were replaced with (Dana Boente and Bowdich) will honestly be much more of a problem for Trump, if the investigation continues.
that seems like good news
which after this past year makes me wary
The scary thought is if so many of them also chose party over country. I have hope that the answer is no, but I don't have more than hope.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/30/trump-russia-collusion-fbi-cody-shearer-memo?CMP=fb_gu
Hope shines eternal.
He was an Obama appointment (apparently specifically requested by Eric Holder), though.
Edit: he also was involved in the early stages of the mueller probe
http://www.newsweek.com/dana-boente-resignation-trump-mueller-russia-investigation-720389
An the Muslim ban was a shit order but it was still a lawful (on its face) order. We can't complain about the President trying to end-run the FBI, while applauding the justice department trying to end-run the President. The government only works if the government works how it is supposed to, for better or worse.
Yates didn't think it was lawful, that's the point I think. But we're getting off topic a bit here.