[Altered Carbon] Robocop in Blade Runner on LSD

Harry Dresden

Based on the novels by Richard K. Morgan, and developed by Laeta Kalogridis (Bionic Woman, Birds of Prey) Netlix unveils a cyberpunk show to the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhFM8akm9a4

Starring Joel Kinnaman (Robocop, Suicide Squad, The Killing).

Features about Altered Carbon and its mythology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40T49kllPCM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFWBXDIW5Iw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kBhnkHF1zY

Which gives you a glimpse of what the series has to offer before downloading yourself onto Netflix where Takeshi Kovacs' awaits.

Ringo

Hoo boy, the trailer makes it look like they're following the mystery plot of the first book

Coincidentally, the only one I've read because the mystery was hot garbage. I'll take a wait and see on this series.

I do love the setting and world building though. Has anybody read the other books? Are they any good?

Asthariel

I read second book and it was so boring, that I remember almost nothing about it. It almost never happens to me. That should tell you how boring the plot there was.

Solar

I liked the first book but this is an adaption I am hoping will improve on the source material rather than attempt to live up to it.

nexuscrawler

Solar wrote: »

I liked the first book but this is an adaption I am hoping will improve on the source material rather than attempt to live up to it.

apparently they're

changing the Envoys from a government agency to a rebel group

and keeping lots of the quasi porny stuff

Absalon

I remember being totally on board with the pornographic stuff simply because of how out of left field it was.

Apparently, reviews are complaining about the plot being too convoluted, which probably means it is about as complicated as the average murder mystery you would see in a crime novel with no simplification for the screen format.

Solar

nexuscrawler wrote: »

Solar wrote: »

I liked the first book but this is an adaption I am hoping will improve on the source material rather than attempt to live up to it.

apparently they're

changing the Envoys from a government agency to a rebel group

and keeping lots of the quasi porny stuff

I 100% don't mind the sex stuff. I always have a real bee in my bonnet about extreme violence being fine but regular sex being too much.

Operative21

I'm two episodes in and enjoying the series thus far. I do like that they're very much emphasizing the use of envoy intuition. Not sure how I feel about

the alteration of the envoys from the Protectorate's military wrath to a rebel group, or the changes to Quell and Takeshi's relationship. The lack of Virginia Vidaura could also prove rather problematic if they choose to do later sequels that involve the later books.

nexuscrawler

Solar wrote: »

nexuscrawler wrote: »

Solar wrote: »

I liked the first book but this is an adaption I am hoping will improve on the source material rather than attempt to live up to it.

apparently they're

changing the Envoys from a government agency to a rebel group

and keeping lots of the quasi porny stuff

I 100% don't mind the sex stuff. I always have a real bee in my bonnet about extreme violence being fine but regular sex being too much.

Its not regular sex stuff

its lots of sexual violence

surrealitycheck

the problem is fundamentally that the "plot" of altered carbon was never the selling point, and neither was the main character - he had almost no personality, and was basically just "here is cool envoy soldier guy who does cool shit and has dope mental conditioning yo"

it was fundamentally a conceit that people enjoyed - "hey we can upload BROINS and have new bodies thats COOL" - and the second and third novels being about weird martian bird aliens and nanotech and stuff meant that everybody gave way less of a shit

so i would be surprised if a straight adaptation was a success or what they will try and go for

Tiger Burning

I loved these books, and the character in particular, so my hopes for an adaptation were/are unreasonably high. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm not liking any of the changes I've read about, especially regarding Kovacs politics and motivation.

OH WELL. I'll watch it and try to keep my expectations down to the level of pretty good scifi tv show.

Ninja Snarl P

Solar wrote: »

nexuscrawler wrote: »

Solar wrote: »

I liked the first book but this is an adaption I am hoping will improve on the source material rather than attempt to live up to it.

apparently they're

changing the Envoys from a government agency to a rebel group

and keeping lots of the quasi porny stuff

I 100% don't mind the sex stuff. I always have a real bee in my bonnet about extreme violence being fine but regular sex being too much.

The problem is that the writer throws in random porno scenes that don't seem to be there for any other reason than the author couldn't come up with ways to make the story itself interesting, and does the same thing with the violence.

So the book (I only read the first one) is already leaning on sex and violence as major crutches, which does not bode well for the series version since those almost invariably end up doing the same even when the story doesn't really need it.

Not a big deal to me regardless, apparently the one book I read of this is the good one, and I was barely able to force myself to finish it. I just could not at all get into the premise of the setting. How is there any kind of interesting drama at all when all the major players can pretty much just load up a new body if they die or get injured or just get bored? And there was almost zero exploration of how the technology would actually change humanity, because post-sleeve humanity seems to work the exact same way as it did before sleeves existed.

I'll be interested when somebody makes a series out a cyberpunk setting that's got something of actual value to it, instead of a second-rate mystery writer who tries to gloss over his work's shortcomings by tossing in ultra-violence and porn here and there.

Anzekay

Couple episodes in and I'm enjoying this so far. I'm a huge fan of the first book, despite its problematic parts, so I did have very high expectations for this.

bit unclear what they've done with the Enovy backstory stuff but I think

it's that the Envoys were Protectorate soldiers like usual in the book, some went rogue at one point with the Unsettlement led by Quell. It's been a while since I last read the book but this doesn't feel too far removed

also RE: the sex scenes, Richard Morgan has 2 sex scenes in literally every book I've read of his (5 or 6 of them) like clockwork. You can see them coming a mile away. I've never felt the sex scenes themselves added all that much, it was more about the relationships that said sex scenes involved

Aegis

I'd not heard of the books, but the first episode made a really good impression. I like the premise, the world looks amazing, and I absolutely loved the hotel setup and scene.

Part of that may have been due to, "Is that Helo? That looks like Helo. It is Helo! " Also the hotel manager

taliosfalcon

Quite liked the books, just watched the first episode and it seemed pretty good. Well done netflix. And has been said, the hotel is so awesome.

Initial reviews seem to be kinda mixed, so i was wary going in but it's much better than they lead me to believe.

Anzekay

Yeah the hotel scene is super iconic from the book. It's a bit different but still really good

we're at like episode 7 now and boy I'm very impressed. It's very good, and they've changed stuff enough that I'm being surprised and hooked in ways I didn't expect.

Echo

Anzekay wrote: »

Yeah the hotel scene is super iconic from the book. It's a bit different but still really good

we're at like episode 7 now and boy I'm very impressed. It's very good, and they've changed stuff enough that I'm being surprised and hooked in ways I didn't expect.

I'm on episode 3 and (likely super-spoiler)

Goddamnit Tak's sister is going to be Reileen Kawahara, isn't she?

Neaden

I wanted to watch this on the train on my way to work, but now I can't because of all the sex scenes. So the are definitely having a negative effect on my ability to enjoy the show and I wish they wouldn't include it.

Asthariel

I watched entire season.

Ultimately, I would give 7+/10 - it's mostly good, I enjoyed even the changes made to the original story, but oh boy, there is one thing I hated with a passion of a thousand suns and it soured my whole experience.

FULL SEASON SPOILERS

In the book, Reileen was rather average villain - sure, her plan was understandable, but she wasn't very charismatic, and she had no connection to Kovacs, so killing her wasn't very dramatic. To fix this, they changed her in this series to become a relative of main hero, which in my opinion backfired horribly. It turned main villain into the most embarassing, cringy anime trope possible.

She is just an obsessed little sister in love with her older brother now.

And it doesn't work! She still has her motives from the book (make money of suppling prostitutes for depraved clientele), but a second set of motivations was added to her original character (make bro notice her), and it doesn't. Bloody. Work. She becomes two different characters under the same name - she is a diabolical criminal mastermind in one scene, and braindead idiot in the other, she is charismatic smooth operator in one moment, and then absolutely pathetic fool that I wouldn't trust with buying cereal in local shop later, it just doesn't fit! Takeshi only finds out about her being the big bad because she brings him to the place which has her other sleeves stored! Lady, are you an idiot? Yes, yes she is, because she asks Dmitri, psychopatic russian mercenary of all people, to bring Kovacs to her at the start of the series, which ends predictably. I could go on and on about her, but my point is - it was better to have average main villain than to have a pathetic one that I absolutely cannot take seriously.

Also, there is no Trepp here, which is just sad.

Still, despite this and some other flaws, I enjoyed this series, and I will watch the second season when it comes out.

Echo

They better have Trepp in the show!

Anzekay

Echo wrote: »

They better have Trepp in the show!

sorry

but some of the other side characters get beefed up and are great!

Anzekay

Asthariel wrote: »

I watched entire season.

Ultimately, I would give 7+/10 - it's mostly good, I enjoyed even the changes made to the original story, but oh boy, there is one thing I hated with a passion of a thousand suns and it soured my whole experience.

FULL SEASON SPOILERS

In the book, Reileen was rather average villain - sure, her plan was understandable, but she wasn't very charismatic, and she had no connection to Kovacs, so killing her wasn't very dramatic. To fix this, they changed her in this series to become a relative of main hero, which in my opinion backfired horribly. It turned main villain into the most embarassing, cringy anime trope possible.

She is just an obsessed little sister in love with her older brother now.

And it doesn't work! She still has her motives from the book (make money of suppling prostitutes for depraved clientele), but a second set of motivations was added to her original character (make bro notice her), and it doesn't. Bloody. Work. She becomes two different characters under the same name - she is a diabolical criminal mastermind in one scene, and braindead idiot in the other, she is charismatic smooth operator in one moment, and then absolutely pathetic fool that I wouldn't trust with buying cereal in local shop later, it just doesn't fit! Takeshi only finds out about her being the big bad because she brings him to the place which has her other sleeves stored! Lady, are you an idiot? Yes, yes she is, because she asks Dmitri, psychopatic russian mercenary of all people, to bring Kovacs to her at the start of the series, which ends predictably. I could go on and on about her, but my point is - it was better to have average main villain than to have a pathetic one that I absolutely cannot take seriously.

Also, there is no Trepp here, which is just sad.

Still, despite this and some other flaws, I enjoyed this series, and I will watch the second season when it comes out.

so, I grok your complaint in the spoiler but I'm not sure that I agree that it ruins things as much as you say it does

anyway we have an episode left and I'm really really impressed with the series. I have some problems, bit disappointed with how they did a few things (and a few changes from the book), and I have my ever-persistent cyberpunk-focused issues at the moment but it's at least a solid 8, 8.5 from me.

Bloods End

Why is Poe not played by Paul f thompkins

Cauld

Was about to watch this last night, but we decided on something else. I did notice that its not in 4k. Anyone know why? seems like the perfect show for it.

AlphaRomero

Asthariel wrote: »

I watched entire season.

Ultimately, I would give 7+/10 - it's mostly good, I enjoyed even the changes made to the original story, but oh boy, there is one thing I hated with a passion of a thousand suns and it soured my whole experience.

FULL SEASON SPOILERS

In the book, Reileen was rather average villain - sure, her plan was understandable, but she wasn't very charismatic, and she had no connection to Kovacs, so killing her wasn't very dramatic. To fix this, they changed her in this series to become a relative of main hero, which in my opinion backfired horribly. It turned main villain into the most embarassing, cringy anime trope possible.

She is just an obsessed little sister in love with her older brother now.

And it doesn't work! She still has her motives from the book (make money of suppling prostitutes for depraved clientele), but a second set of motivations was added to her original character (make bro notice her), and it doesn't. Bloody. Work. She becomes two different characters under the same name - she is a diabolical criminal mastermind in one scene, and braindead idiot in the other, she is charismatic smooth operator in one moment, and then absolutely pathetic fool that I wouldn't trust with buying cereal in local shop later, it just doesn't fit! Takeshi only finds out about her being the big bad because she brings him to the place which has her other sleeves stored! Lady, are you an idiot? Yes, yes she is, because she asks Dmitri, psychopatic russian mercenary of all people, to bring Kovacs to her at the start of the series, which ends predictably. I could go on and on about her, but my point is - it was better to have average main villain than to have a pathetic one that I absolutely cannot take seriously.

Also, there is no Trepp here, which is just sad.

Still, despite this and some other flaws, I enjoyed this series, and I will watch the second season when it comes out.

I took it as her using her memory of the love for her brother as something she just uses to justify everything she does. I mean she seems to have a tonne of resources and money, yet she waited 250 years to get her brother back and then there's the implication that there was some relief when she finally died. Choosing permanent death cannot be easy when immortality is optional, but that kind of life has to become weary. You're pushing 300 and still a brothel madam.

Aegis

Bloods End wrote: »

Why is Poe not played by Paul f thompkins

With the hat in episode 2 or 3, I can't stop picturing him as Dean Stockwell anymore.

Gundi

This show is maximum cyberpunk.

Goumindong

I continue to be disconcerted by the tattoos that the ganger sleeve has. Could they have not chosen other tattooed actors? Did they do that intentionally?

Operative21

I enjoyed the show, but I still think the book is by far superior in the progression and flow of its story. I'm still not sure why they decided on some of the choices they made.

Turning the envoys into a rebel group seems pointlessly convoluted to me. The envoy corp as it was in the books was a perfect double edged blade, as both a benefit and a curse to the main character. At first I was wary about making Quell into a love interest, but I can at least see the benefits there towards making it easier to explain Kovacs' reverence for her to an audience unfamiliar with the books.

I actually quite liked the change to the hotel with Poe being a far more interesting character than the Hendrix was in the books. Plus the idea of an AI Hotel management Union was a fun addition that I rather liked.

I was oddly disappointed by the scene where Kovacs goes shopping for hardware. I feel like the book version had a much more interesting setting with Bancroft's personal armourers. The scene in the show just seemed more like more of the usual 'shady streetdeal' or 'dingy gunshop' setup that is far too common when it comes to acquiring weapons.

Comparing the final few episodes to the ending portions of the book it definitely seemed like they had to pad the plot a bit in order to draw out its length. The run on head in the clouds was definitely vastly different from the book version (which frankly, I prefer). That being said, I don't fault them the changes. I suspect they probably wanted to make the supporting characters more than just background support and give them a bit more screen time and focus, and prevent the show from being focused purely on Kovacs. To their credit, sometimes it works quite well (Poe's scenes, and Ortega's scenes being a good example) and sometimes it doesn't (Lizzie going violent at the end).

If I had to choose one addition I really really liked though, I'd have to say the scene where Ortega spins up her grandmother in the body of a perp was very solid. It did an awesome job of really confronting the uncomfortable social dynamics caused by the ability to re-sleeve.

RT800

Two episodes in.

So far my favorite character is the Hotel.

At first I thought he was supposed to just be a greeter robot, but I like that he's actually a full-blown artificial intelligence.

Anzekay

btw I believe they changed the hotel because they couldn't get the rights to use anything Jimmy Hendrix related

Harry Dresden

Goumindong wrote: »

I continue to be disconcerted by the tattoos that the ganger sleeve has. Could they have not chosen other tattooed actors? Did they do that intentionally?

That was likely the point

to serve as an example of Ortega's grandmother feeling free in this new, weird body and serve as a future sleeve for Dmitri. I'd very surprised if those tattoos were genuine, it'd be simple for them to put fake tattoos on an actor for the role - that's how it's usually done.

The sleeve is a logical cheap alternative Ortega would have access to at her precinct.

Tiger Burning

Harry Dresden wrote: »

Goumindong wrote: »

I continue to be disconcerted by the tattoos that the ganger sleeve has. Could they have not chosen other tattooed actors? Did they do that intentionally?

That was likely the point

to serve as an example of Ortega's grandmother feeling free in this new, weird body and serve as a future sleeve for Dmitri.

It was a little lazy in having a skinhead 300 years in the future have the same tats a skinhead today would have.

Half way through and it’s not too bad. I’m ambivalent about some of the changes to Kovacs past, and worried about the big change I have yet to get to, but all in all it’s a decent adaptation so far.

Goumindong

Harry Dresden wrote: »

Goumindong wrote: »

I continue to be disconcerted by the tattoos that the ganger sleeve has. Could they have not chosen other tattooed actors? Did they do that intentionally?

That was likely the point

to serve as an example of Ortega's grandmother feeling free in this new, weird body and serve as a future sleeve for Dmitri. I'd very surprised if those tattoos were genuine, it'd be simple for them to put fake tattoos on an actor for the role - that's how it's usually done.

The sleeve is a logical cheap alternative Ortega would have access to at her precinct.

Sure but the literal Nazi tattoos probably werent necessary. Certainly there would be new horrible people 300 years in the future and new symbols they could have used

Harry Dresden

Goumindong wrote: »

Harry Dresden wrote: »

Goumindong wrote: »

I continue to be disconcerted by the tattoos that the ganger sleeve has. Could they have not chosen other tattooed actors? Did they do that intentionally?

That was likely the point

to serve as an example of Ortega's grandmother feeling free in this new, weird body and serve as a future sleeve for Dmitri. I'd very surprised if those tattoos were genuine, it'd be simple for them to put fake tattoos on an actor for the role - that's how it's usually done.

The sleeve is a logical cheap alternative Ortega would have access to at her precinct.

Sure but the literal Nazi tattoos probably werent necessary. Certainly there would be new horrible people 300 years in the future and new symbols they could have used

They could have, but unless someone on screen bought it up the audience wouldn't be able to identify it being nazi based. I think they wanted to show Nazis do exist, but not enough to make it a plot point or a conversation

which also could have been to distracting from the Neo-Catholic argument when Ortega bought her grandmother to dinner.

Tiger Burning

Aaand that ruined it. So many bad narrative decisions packed into one episode yikes.

zeeny

This is way, way, worse than I expected(I stopped watching at episode 8th, completely uninterested how they "wrap up" whatever they have going).
If they butcher a straight noir that badly, I'm 100% fine with never getting any of Morgan on screen again.

Echo

Nice to spot small nods to things they cut from the book. Plenty of mohawks at the Fell Street precinct.

RedTide

Huh, I really enjoyed this. My policy of not reading genre fiction until relevant adaptations are complete remains a strong safeguard of enjoyment.

Anzekay

RedTide wrote: »

Huh, I really enjoyed this. My policy of not reading genre fiction until relevant adaptations are complete remains a strong safeguard of enjoyment.

The book is quite good, but I enjoyed this adaptation roughly as much as I did the book I think? There's only a couple of alterations they made that I didn't like, and they made up for a lot of those by developing a whole bunch of side characters way more than the books did.

Honk

I'm 3 episodes in and I think it's totally ok but not more. With the staggering budget I would have kind of hoped for something a bit better though.

I'll complain mainly about the dialogue writing being often bad. Also the main character. They make Kinnaman do comedic/sarcastic quips constantly and it's painfully clear that he has no timing whatsoever. Every quip so far has fallen completely flat, and they're in most scenes with him. They could have noticed he couldn't deliver them and adapted the writing or something.