The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

[Altered Carbon] Robocop in Blade Runner on LSD

1678911

Posts

  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    And it had a living history. People had issues with its former owner. That body getting killed would be a big deal for some people. This new body is off the rack.

    I'm up to Ep3 and I can see what people are saying about the budget. It doesn't look like a TV show I don't agree, but small, closed sets. The first season felt like basically Blade Runner, and it felt more epic because you're opening with this grand mystery about Bancroft and it is escalating in all manner of ways.

    This feels much more closed and personal, and if you don't really care about Quell, the central mystery isn't really that big of a deal.

    AlphaRomero on
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    I think Poe does a better job of keeping the notion of what it means to be human relevant to the story. I'm glad he gained some flaws and had more interaction with other AI. It was probably my favorite story arch.

    The AI has all the flaws and personality and Kovacs is boring AF.

    Edit: I just realized how irritated I was they pulled the "super soldier body can't even get drunk" trope.

    dispatch.o on
  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Finished it. Disappointed. It feels like a completely different show to the first season and the only thing I can think of is that they apparently replaced the previous showrunner with Alison Schapker who last worked on...The Flash, the series about a man who can run super fast and yet is constantly spinning his wheels.

    The first season was this gritty, noir detective tale that just happened to be set in a world where the murder victim can come back, and the detective is some guy is just out of fucks to give after a lifetime of shit and then being on ice for like a century. It delved into vice, the hedonism of immortality, the slums of those who weren't lucky enough to get in on the ground floor of perpetual wealth making, clones, synths and a conspiracy to stop a law that would interfere with the most rich-person vice of all, murdering poor, innocent people for pleasure. Kinnaman was perfect for the role, stacked (heh) and just looking like a man who did not care at all, but has compassion underneath his beaten down exterior. I actually liked Reileen as a character and a villain.

    The second season is a
    lite sci-fi fantasy tale. The main driving mystery is Quelcrist, but I don't give two fucks about Quelcrist, someone who died centuries ago and seemed pretty manipulative even then. Even here, at the end, she's going off to find new planets to start uprisings on and get people killed in. If she has to abandon a planet because it's not in her favour then she's never going to win, so she's just going to get a lot of poor people real death'd for her own self-serving ideology. I do not get Kovacs obsession with her, and it made more sense when it was just an image of her he'd warped over centuries to being this perfect, infallible being. Lots of episodes spent trying to understand why she is switching personalities but I don't care why she's doing that. She's killing people who are blatantly bad people so what do I care if she carries on doing that? I just felt nothing for her or that relationship with Kovacs at all, and I don't get it with Kovacs Prime either. Him turning on Jaeger when he learns what happened to Reileen, that's fine, it makes sense, but nothing about Quelcrist demands the devotion she just gets from both Kovacs.

    I don't mind aliens. They've established aliens. It just felt like a boring premise in general and nothing fell in line with that first season. I've never found Mackie to be the most interesting person in anything I've seen him in, and I don't think he conveys the bitter, broken, but sarcastic Kovacs that birth-sleeve Kovacs and Kinnaman seemed to pull off. Trepp just seemed like she was there to be there. Maybe that all happens in the books, but it's not great character work. The Poe stuff was ok, I was disappointed that Neal McDonough ultimately did not show up. The governor kept throwing me because she looks like Megan Markle. Her evil was a little comical, though attaching her weak links to the fireworks rockets was a nice touch.

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Yeap.
    I didn't understand why they used Neal McDonough; I recognized the masks as him and then he never really showed up. Was it just, "We need another white dude to be the villain." Were we supposed to think he was going to be a bigger deal because it was a name actor?

    I don't feel particularly invested in Quell, she feels like some hand wavey new age preacher. I was hoping either Kovacs would find her and realize they'd both changed over hundreds of years or with new Kovacs, he'd just move on. I did feel for Reileen in the first one, and here too in a way, especially when Kovacs tells his younger self about her death.

    Trepp and her family weren't nearly as interesting as Ortega.

    I did like the governor just because she was such a consistent piece of shit always raising the piece of shit stakes right up until the end.

    edit:
    Trepp uses the sleeve better than Kovacs. They go on about how amazing it is and then...nothing. The gun pull trick, which...did it ever pan out? It felt like everytime he did it, someone kicked them out of his hands...again...or he proceeded to miss. Trepp gets the sleeve and proceeds to destroy all those bodyguards in short order.

    The sleeve can't shoot Jaeger, but...it can force him to pull the trigger, causing him to shoot himself? What? That just felt...dumb?

    I feel like going back and watching Season 1 again for comparison, but S2 when I think about it, feels like the made for tv movie sequel to a good R rated movie. I'm not entirely unhappy with it, but after some thought, it's easily the lesser of the two.

    Nosf on
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    The Poe plot was good tho

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    I think less is more when it comes to Poe.

  • CormacCormac Registered User regular
    Finished it. Disappointed. It feels like a completely different show to the first season and the only thing I can think of is that they apparently replaced the previous showrunner with Alison Schapker who last worked on...The Flash, the series about a man who can run super fast and yet is constantly spinning his wheels.

    The first season was this gritty, noir detective tale that just happened to be set in a world where the murder victim can come back, and the detective is some guy is just out of fucks to give after a lifetime of shit and then being on ice for like a century. It delved into vice, the hedonism of immortality, the slums of those who weren't lucky enough to get in on the ground floor of perpetual wealth making, clones, synths and a conspiracy to stop a law that would interfere with the most rich-person vice of all, murdering poor, innocent people for pleasure. Kinnaman was perfect for the role, stacked (heh) and just looking like a man who did not care at all, but has compassion underneath his beaten down exterior. I actually liked Reileen as a character and a villain.

    The second season is a
    lite sci-fi fantasy tale. The main driving mystery is Quelcrist, but I don't give two fucks about Quelcrist, someone who died centuries ago and seemed pretty manipulative even then. Even here, at the end, she's going off to find new planets to start uprisings on and get people killed in. If she has to abandon a planet because it's not in her favour then she's never going to win, so she's just going to get a lot of poor people real death'd for her own self-serving ideology. I do not get Kovacs obsession with her, and it made more sense when it was just an image of her he'd warped over centuries to being this perfect, infallible being. Lots of episodes spent trying to understand why she is switching personalities but I don't care why she's doing that. She's killing people who are blatantly bad people so what do I care if she carries on doing that? I just felt nothing for her or that relationship with Kovacs at all, and I don't get it with Kovacs Prime either. Him turning on Jaeger when he learns what happened to Reileen, that's fine, it makes sense, but nothing about Quelcrist demands the devotion she just gets from both Kovacs.

    I don't mind aliens. They've established aliens. It just felt like a boring premise in general and nothing fell in line with that first season. I've never found Mackie to be the most interesting person in anything I've seen him in, and I don't think he conveys the bitter, broken, but sarcastic Kovacs that birth-sleeve Kovacs and Kinnaman seemed to pull off. Trepp just seemed like she was there to be there. Maybe that all happens in the books, but it's not great character work. The Poe stuff was ok, I was disappointed that Neal McDonough ultimately did not show up. The governor kept throwing me because she looks like Megan Markle. Her evil was a little comical, though attaching her weak links to the fireworks rockets was a nice touch.

    That's how the books are too. Each of them are completely different from the others, and for me the only one I really enjoyed the whole way through was the first.

    Steam: Gridlynk | PSN: Gridlynk | FFXIV: Jarvellis Mika
  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Cormac wrote: »
    Finished it. Disappointed. It feels like a completely different show to the first season and the only thing I can think of is that they apparently replaced the previous showrunner with Alison Schapker who last worked on...The Flash, the series about a man who can run super fast and yet is constantly spinning his wheels.

    The first season was this gritty, noir detective tale that just happened to be set in a world where the murder victim can come back, and the detective is some guy is just out of fucks to give after a lifetime of shit and then being on ice for like a century. It delved into vice, the hedonism of immortality, the slums of those who weren't lucky enough to get in on the ground floor of perpetual wealth making, clones, synths and a conspiracy to stop a law that would interfere with the most rich-person vice of all, murdering poor, innocent people for pleasure. Kinnaman was perfect for the role, stacked (heh) and just looking like a man who did not care at all, but has compassion underneath his beaten down exterior. I actually liked Reileen as a character and a villain.

    The second season is a
    lite sci-fi fantasy tale. The main driving mystery is Quelcrist, but I don't give two fucks about Quelcrist, someone who died centuries ago and seemed pretty manipulative even then. Even here, at the end, she's going off to find new planets to start uprisings on and get people killed in. If she has to abandon a planet because it's not in her favour then she's never going to win, so she's just going to get a lot of poor people real death'd for her own self-serving ideology. I do not get Kovacs obsession with her, and it made more sense when it was just an image of her he'd warped over centuries to being this perfect, infallible being. Lots of episodes spent trying to understand why she is switching personalities but I don't care why she's doing that. She's killing people who are blatantly bad people so what do I care if she carries on doing that? I just felt nothing for her or that relationship with Kovacs at all, and I don't get it with Kovacs Prime either. Him turning on Jaeger when he learns what happened to Reileen, that's fine, it makes sense, but nothing about Quelcrist demands the devotion she just gets from both Kovacs.

    I don't mind aliens. They've established aliens. It just felt like a boring premise in general and nothing fell in line with that first season. I've never found Mackie to be the most interesting person in anything I've seen him in, and I don't think he conveys the bitter, broken, but sarcastic Kovacs that birth-sleeve Kovacs and Kinnaman seemed to pull off. Trepp just seemed like she was there to be there. Maybe that all happens in the books, but it's not great character work. The Poe stuff was ok, I was disappointed that Neal McDonough ultimately did not show up. The governor kept throwing me because she looks like Megan Markle. Her evil was a little comical, though attaching her weak links to the fireworks rockets was a nice touch.

    That's how the books are too. Each of them are completely different from the others, and for me the only one I really enjoyed the whole way through was the first.

    Might've been one of those times to take some creative liberties then. The detective noir in dystopian future was the best part about it.

  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    This season is kind of a weird mashup of books 2 and 3. Which I thought both had really cool worlds. They tried to take both, jam them together, and then not do any world building.

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I’d have to go back and check, but was there any mention of Angelfire or Daddy Harlan in the first season? It’s the same planet, right? Since they’re using that same hotel as a base of operations?

    Also, what’s the time frame here in relation to season 1? It feels like it could be anywhere from a year to several decades later.

    All in all, I preferred the story of season 2 but not the performances. It was nice to get away from the prurient nastiness of season 1 with all its lingering on the naked bodies of murdered or soon-to-be murdered women.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Grab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front door Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I’d have to go back and check, but was there any mention of Angelfire or Daddy Harlan in the first season? It’s the same planet, right? Since they’re using that same hotel as a base of operations?

    Also, what’s the time frame here in relation to season 1? It feels like it could be anywhere from a year to several decades later.

    All in all, I preferred the story of season 2 but not the performances. It was nice to get away from the prurient nastiness of season 1 with all its lingering on the naked bodies of murdered or soon-to-be murdered women.

    30 chronological years

  • Banzai5150Banzai5150 Registered User regular
    I'm so bummed on this season that I'm having problems watching past episode 3. Poe is awesome, but the rest is not really engaging me.

    50433.png?1708759015
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Part of me wishes this iteration of Kovacs had been played by Anthony Anderson instead of Anthony Mackie

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    I wonder what a 'year' means in this show, where humans have colonised multiple solar systems. Do they mean 30 Earth years?

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Stepped in it Registered User regular
    One solar year, as it makes sense for just like there's GMT, while local time matters locally, there's a human standard time that syncs across the inhabited words.
    knitdan wrote: »
    I’d have to go back and check, but was there any mention of Angelfire or Daddy Harlan in the first season? It’s the same planet, right? Since they’re using that same hotel as a base of operations?

    Also, what’s the time frame here in relation to season 1? It feels like it could be anywhere from a year to several decades later.

    All in all, I preferred the story of season 2 but not the performances. It was nice to get away from the prurient nastiness of season 1 with all its lingering on the naked bodies of murdered or soon-to-be murdered women.

    30 chronological years

    I think that it's in episode 1 where they mention he'd been to Harlan's world just after Bay City, and hadn't been back in thirty years.

    I intended to watch just the first episode, but I loved the hell out of this season and ending up binging the whole thing in one sitting.

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I don't think keeping it as a grim noir "everyone at the top is an empty, hollow money vaccum of depravity and no one can really change it" would work given the Governer:
    Whose a villain and a pretty horrible person but actually has politics that put her nearer to Kovacs than most meths.

    All in all I liked it a lot. It wasn't as good as the best bits of season 1 but it didn't eventually taper off into a terrible, boring answer to the conspiracy either.

  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    edited March 2020
    knitdan wrote: »
    I’d have to go back and check, but was there any mention of Angelfire or Daddy Harlan in the first season? It’s the same planet, right? Since they’re using that same hotel as a base of operations?

    Also, what’s the time frame here in relation to season 1? It feels like it could be anywhere from a year to several decades later.

    All in all, I preferred the story of season 2 but not the performances. It was nice to get away from the prurient nastiness of season 1 with all its lingering on the naked bodies of murdered or soon-to-be murdered women.

    Season 1 (except flashbacks) took place on Earth.

    Season 2 takes place almost entirely (except the first scene) on Harlan's World, which is where Kovacs was born and where the flashback events of Season 1 took place.

    also, yes, thirty year time lapse.

    VishNub on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I gotta say.. So far (S02E04), the season is okay, but the
    poe
    stuff is just amazing.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Will watching S2 ruin my mostly good memories of S1?

    Like I wish I could un-warch S2 of Westworld and just pretend it ended after the one.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    Will watching S2 ruin my mostly good memories of S1?

    Like I wish I could un-warch S2 of Westworld and just pretend it ended after the one.

    The only safe choice is to not watch it.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    Will watching S2 ruin my mostly good memories of S1?

    Like I wish I could un-warch S2 of Westworld and just pretend it ended after the one.

    Not really? I don’t think it retcons anything.

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Stepped in it Registered User regular
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    Will watching S2 ruin my mostly good memories of S1?
    I don't even understand the question. It's nonsensical.

  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    Will watching S2 ruin my mostly good memories of S1?

    Like I wish I could un-warch S2 of Westworld and just pretend it ended after the one.

    I can't imagine why it would.

    If you're going in expecting more of Season 1 you'll probably be disappointed though as this is a different world dealing with different issues and while there are spots where Mackie can get across that he's Takeshi Kovacs he just doesn't do as good of a job with it as Kinnamen did imo. Now I don't know if that's just because Kinnamen is my default reference, or if Kinnamen actually did a great job, or if it's because I'm so used to Mackie being Falcon in the MCU (the real answer is probably a mix of all of that) but by about halfway through season 2 I largely got over it and it stopped taking me out of the show every now and then.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Anyone know how closely S2 relates to the book? Watched it, kinda liked how it tuned the gleefulness of the murder down a little.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Stepped in it Registered User regular
    It's really a distillation of the basics of the second and third books, and then filtered through how the first season altered the setting.

  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    It's really a distillation of the basics of the second and third books, and then filtered through how the first season altered the setting.

    Honestly I think that’s most of the problem. There’s two worlds of intrigue jammed into one with no room to breathe

  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    It's really a distillation of the basics of the second and third books, and then filtered through how the first season altered the setting.

    Honestly I think that’s most of the problem. There’s two worlds of intrigue jammed into one with no room to breathe

    Yeah as much as I've seen praise for the shorter season making things more focused? Outside of Poe's story-line I feel like there's enough things that need to be assumed that another episode or two could have made it better overall.

  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    I really liked season 2.
    yeah, when you think a little too hard, the plot is kinda standard sci-fi tropes. But it was still great to watch. Poe was fantastic and easily the best character in the whole season. I also liked Carrera/Jaeger alot. Turns out he is a German actor and voice actor, and he really had his villain down.

    I never read the 2nd and 3rd books (although #2 is on my shelf somewhere) - so I don't know about how closely it adheres to the plot from them. But maybe that is a good thing, idk.

    Is a 3rd season planned?

  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I really liked season 2.
    yeah, when you think a little too hard, the plot is kinda standard sci-fi tropes. But it was still great to watch. Poe was fantastic and easily the best character in the whole season. I also liked Carrera/Jaeger alot. Turns out he is a German actor and voice actor, and he really had his villain down.

    I never read the 2nd and 3rd books (although #2 is on my shelf somewhere) - so I don't know about how closely it adheres to the plot from them. But maybe that is a good thing, idk.

    Is a 3rd season planned?

    After the way this season ended I can only assume a 3rd season is planned.

    Whether or not it actually gets made is another matter entirely.

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Stepped in it Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I really liked season 2.
    yeah, when you think a little too hard, the plot is kinda standard sci-fi tropes. But it was still great to watch. Poe was fantastic and easily the best character in the whole season. I also liked Carrera/Jaeger alot. Turns out he is a German actor and voice actor, and he really had his villain down.
    Jaeger's arc was a lot of fun. The story did a lot to give him depth and make it possible to have sympathies for the character, even if never forgetting that even when you do so, he is still a viciously bad person.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Just finished the first episode. I'm really enjoying the actor they picked for Kovacs.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Anthonie Mackie is pretty much always a delight to watch

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Anthony Mackie is always just Anthony Mackie.

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    01fv6d2mplv5.png

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • eMoandereMoander Registered User regular
    Finished the season, overall I liked it although not nearly as good as season 1.
    A few whole season thoughts / nitpicks with only slight spoilers
    One major difference between the seasons is the much smaller number of fleshed out characters. If Trepp is Ortega and Jaeger is Reileen, where are Aboud, Vernon, Ava, Mickey, Miriam, Tanaka, etc etc? It felt like Kovacs was dropping into an existing world in season 1; season 2 feels really small and self-contained in comparison. Probably a lot of that is season 2 is really only following Kovacs around, and Trepp isn't fleshed out nearly as well as Ortega.

    The only thing I really didn't like was in ep 7 when Trepp takes the fancy sleeve for a spin. The fact that she just casually destroys everybody really takes away from the special Envoy expertise. It implies that the reason Kovacs was so badass was all about the sleeve and definitely undercuts his capabilities.

    I'm also not keen on the whole 'I can't pull the trigger, but putting your finger on it and pushing is A-OK'. Also not clear to me why the sleeve is restricted from shooting, but punching/kicking/etc is fine, but for me that was all still in the /shrug it looks cool department.

    Poe was great and I definitely want more Lizzie. I definitely did not predict the end scene; I hope this means there is a season 3 in the works.

    Xbox: Travesty 0214 Switch: 3304-2356-9421 Honkai Star Rail: 600322115 Battlenet: Travesty #1822
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I hope, if there is a season 3, that they actually address transgender people, and what they mean in a world where you can have any body that you want (that you can afford).

    Morgan apparently being a TERF and still involved with the show doesn't make me optimistic, though.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Just finished Season 2. I liked it. I agree that if felt a little rushed. Or maybe just overly compressed.
    I feel like the Quellcrist/Kovacs Prime story should have been this season, and that the next season should have been devoted to a Dr Jekyl and Mr Hide style arc.

    I agree that Poe was great, and I'm glad that he has Annabell Lee for future seasons (if they occur).

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I hope, if there is a season 3, that they actually address transgender people, and what they mean in a world where you can have any body that you want (that you can afford).

    Morgan apparently being a TERF and still involved with the show doesn't make me optimistic, though.

    What's left to address? Poor people get whatever they can get their hands on, the meths probably grow their birth body clones with the correct gender. The rest of the show is devoted to dysphoria already.

  • JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    I'm on EP 1 but I feel like Kinnaman, as basic as he is, pulls off "completely done with this shit" better than Mackie does.

    I agree with this and the point that Mackie doesn't really seem like act like the Kovacs we know, but I think this is also due to an important, huge change in motivation.


    S1 Kovacs is completely done with this shit because he wakes up 250 years in the future with incomplete memories but the knowledge that he has lost everything. He doesn't care about whatever everyone is on about and acts because he is dragged into it.

    S2 Kovacs at the start receives the best lead yet to finding the woman he loves who he thought was dead. He now has a clear goal he very much desires, and acts accordingly. S1 Kovacs didn't really care if he died, S2 Kovacs desperately wants to find and save Falconer.

  • JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    edited March 2020
    Mackie isn't a bad actor, but he's well-known enough for us to see him as "Anthony Mackie" when doing a lead role. Normally, the famous actor effect isn't a problem because we just identify them with the role, but here he is playing a role previously played by two (2!) completely different actors. And it's not like a recast, where you sorta accept him doing the role differently, he is actually the same character in a different body.

    They do a good job, but it very difficult to ignore the human instinct to see two different bodies as two different people. Maybe a less well-known actor would have helped, but still.

    Julius on
Sign In or Register to comment.