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Florida School Shooting - At Least 17 Killed in Parkland

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Posts

  • SadgasmSadgasm Deluded doodler A cold placeRegistered User regular
    Sadgasm wrote: »
    Jesus christ, I knew Orwell was right, but atleast in 1984, they had to have World War 3 before Ingsoc took over. Even he didnt predict that people would voluntarily create Doublespeak.

    The Daily Mail existed while he was alive, Doublespeak was a description of a phenomenon he'd frequently lampooned in his nonfiction work, all of which is better than his novels, which are respectively read as polemics against democracy and socialism particularly.

    Look, I was born 36 years after he died, I know him through the works that made him famous, which was anti-fascist for obvious reasons.

  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    K, sorry, I just reflexively shit that out whenever Orwell is mentioned.

  • SadgasmSadgasm Deluded doodler A cold placeRegistered User regular
    K, sorry, I just reflexively shit that out whenever Orwell is mentioned.

    It's fine, I actually didnt know that so I appreciate the added information. I'm just defensive about Orwell because I've actually read 1984 and Animal Farm and it drives me up the goddamn walls when people quote those stories when they obviously havent read them and just want some random, out of context quotes to support their authoritiarian, anti-semitic views. It's funny how history's strongmen always think they're victims.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Any European debaters and/or discoursers up late and in need of a bitter little laugh?


    Yes, that is some random Conservative claiming to have spoken to a European who was shocked, just shocked, that the school had no armed security guards.

    No, is the answer to your obvious question. I cannot think of a single school anywhere in Europe that has armed security guards.

    Like anybody who probably believes and retweets that guy would ever look anything about namby-pamby Europe up, much less visit it and see the truth for themselves

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    If there was a security guard he would have been the first one gunned down.

    Also statistically putting an armed guard in every large school would send individual incidents like accidental shootings or shooting students who they think have a knife or gun skyrocketing.

    Prohass on
  • surfpossumsurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    We can throw the "both sides" shit out the window now right?
    BREAKING: Leader of white nationalist group has confirmed suspect in Florida school shooting was member of his organization.

    AP has updated this statement to be the opposite due to

    1)The original sources being freaking 4chan and the ADL calling the ROF hotline and speaking to someone who identified themselves as the leader.
    2) Law enforcement stating they had been monitoring the ROF very closely and the shooter had no ties
    3) Someone actually speaking to the ROF leader and the guy saying he had no knowledge of the shooter being connected to the ROF at all.

    Dude could be a racist piece of trash or whatever, but let's wait till sources originate from something other than 4chan before we get outraged.
    Points 1 and 3 seem to be directly contradicted by the AP article, which confirms point 2, so I'm a little bit confused about where you're getting this info.

    I have heard the possibility that this Jereb guy was lying, but let's wait and see or whatever.

    Here's the source for point 1: https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz
    After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.
    Thanks, but I'm not convinced that we should just dismiss the possibility that the AP did speak to Jereb and the actual trolling is the claim that they didn't.

    Or maybe they're telling the truth, who knows! I just have a bee up my bonnet about efforts to discredit legitimate news organizations.

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    If there was a security guard he would have been the first one gunned down.

    Also statistically putting an armed guard in every large school would send individual incidents like accidental shootings or shooting students who they think have a knife or gun skyrocketing.

    There was one. He was too far away to be of any use.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    If there was a security guard he would have been the first one gunned down.

    Also statistically putting an armed guard in every large school would send individual incidents like accidental shootings or shooting students who they think have a knife or gun skyrocketing.

    There was one. He was too far away to be of any use.

    Surprisingly, security guards are not omniscient, omnipotent energy beings

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    If there was a security guard he would have been the first one gunned down.

    Also statistically putting an armed guard in every large school would send individual incidents like accidental shootings or shooting students who they think have a knife or gun skyrocketing.

    There was one. He was too far away to be of any use.

    Damn liberals, theyre probably against teams of heavily armed security guards patrolling schools in humvees

    Wait are we a south american failed narco state?

    Prohass on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    If there was a security guard he would have been the first one gunned down.

    Also statistically putting an armed guard in every large school would send individual incidents like accidental shootings or shooting students who they think have a knife or gun skyrocketing.

    Schools in Oklahoma can't afford teachers 5 days out of the week.

  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    We can throw the "both sides" shit out the window now right?
    BREAKING: Leader of white nationalist group has confirmed suspect in Florida school shooting was member of his organization.

    AP has updated this statement to be the opposite due to

    1)The original sources being freaking 4chan and the ADL calling the ROF hotline and speaking to someone who identified themselves as the leader.
    2) Law enforcement stating they had been monitoring the ROF very closely and the shooter had no ties
    3) Someone actually speaking to the ROF leader and the guy saying he had no knowledge of the shooter being connected to the ROF at all.

    Dude could be a racist piece of trash or whatever, but let's wait till sources originate from something other than 4chan before we get outraged.
    Points 1 and 3 seem to be directly contradicted by the AP article, which confirms point 2, so I'm a little bit confused about where you're getting this info.

    I have heard the possibility that this Jereb guy was lying, but let's wait and see or whatever.

    Here's the source for point 1: https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz
    After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.
    Thanks, but I'm not convinced that we should just dismiss the possibility that the AP did speak to Jereb and the actual trolling is the claim that they didn't.

    Or maybe they're telling the truth, who knows! I just have a bee up my bonnet about efforts to discredit legitimate news organizations.

    Did anyone else speak to piece of shit white supremacists leader besides the ADL? They seem to be the only source to have actually talked to him. All his tweets since the story broke have been contradicting the story.

    I don't think this is discrediting the AP (which is actually normally solid) but I don't think they would be immune to not realizing that the ADL messed up here by using 4chan and a hotline as their sources.

    ObiFett on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Any European debaters and/or discoursers up late and in need of a bitter little laugh?


    Yes, that is some random Conservative claiming to have spoken to a European who was shocked, just shocked, that the school had no armed security guards.

    No, is the answer to your obvious question. I cannot think of a single school anywhere in Europe that has armed security guards.

    Okay
    A. There was a security guard. He was of no use.
    B. What liberals are against security guards?

    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • ErlkönigErlkönig Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 2018
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    We can throw the "both sides" shit out the window now right?
    BREAKING: Leader of white nationalist group has confirmed suspect in Florida school shooting was member of his organization.

    AP has updated this statement to be the opposite due to

    1)The original sources being freaking 4chan and the ADL calling the ROF hotline and speaking to someone who identified themselves as the leader.
    2) Law enforcement stating they had been monitoring the ROF very closely and the shooter had no ties
    3) Someone actually speaking to the ROF leader and the guy saying he had no knowledge of the shooter being connected to the ROF at all.

    Dude could be a racist piece of trash or whatever, but let's wait till sources originate from something other than 4chan before we get outraged.
    Points 1 and 3 seem to be directly contradicted by the AP article, which confirms point 2, so I'm a little bit confused about where you're getting this info.

    I have heard the possibility that this Jereb guy was lying, but let's wait and see or whatever.

    Here's the source for point 1: https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz
    After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.
    Thanks, but I'm not convinced that we should just dismiss the possibility that the AP did speak to Jereb and the actual trolling is the claim that they didn't.

    Or maybe they're telling the truth, who knows! I just have a bee up my bonnet about efforts to discredit legitimate news organizations.

    Did anyone else speak to piece of shit white supremacists leader besides the ADL? They seem to be the only source to have actually talked to him. All his tweets since the story broke have been contradicting the story.

    I don't think this is discrediting the AP (which is actually normally solid) but I don't think they would be immune to not realizing that the ADL messed up here by using 4chan and a hotline as their sources.

    Been poking around and came up with this article from the Tallahassee Democrat (a daily broadsheet newspaper that is owned by the Gannett Company): https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-member-white-nationalist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

    Apparently they spoke, briefly, with Jereb and followed up by looking at his social media presence (albeit, they do acknowledge that the social media account "bears Jereb's name," so they may have not been able to verify (yet) that it actually is him). From the article linked above:
    In a profanity-laced post hours later on a social media site, an account bearing Jereb's name said the whole thing was a "legit misunderstanding," saying they have more than one member named Nikolas. He also said he not slept "for like 2 days."

    And yeah, I haven't seen anybody try to discredit the AP...just to be cautious and verify what we read before we starts spreading news reports. I mean, that's just good standard practice regardless of what's being reported, isn't it?

    Erlkönig on
    | Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    If there was a security guard he would have been the first one gunned down.

    Also statistically putting an armed guard in every large school would send individual incidents like accidental shootings or shooting students who they think have a knife or gun skyrocketing.

    There was one. He was too far away to be of any use.

    Damn liberals, theyre probably against teams of heavily armed security guards patrolling schools in humvees

    Wait are we a south american failed narco state?

    Drones.

    Armed predator drones circling our schools 24/7

  • surfpossumsurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    We can throw the "both sides" shit out the window now right?
    BREAKING: Leader of white nationalist group has confirmed suspect in Florida school shooting was member of his organization.

    AP has updated this statement to be the opposite due to

    1)The original sources being freaking 4chan and the ADL calling the ROF hotline and speaking to someone who identified themselves as the leader.
    2) Law enforcement stating they had been monitoring the ROF very closely and the shooter had no ties
    3) Someone actually speaking to the ROF leader and the guy saying he had no knowledge of the shooter being connected to the ROF at all.

    Dude could be a racist piece of trash or whatever, but let's wait till sources originate from something other than 4chan before we get outraged.
    Points 1 and 3 seem to be directly contradicted by the AP article, which confirms point 2, so I'm a little bit confused about where you're getting this info.

    I have heard the possibility that this Jereb guy was lying, but let's wait and see or whatever.

    Here's the source for point 1: https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz
    After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.
    Thanks, but I'm not convinced that we should just dismiss the possibility that the AP did speak to Jereb and the actual trolling is the claim that they didn't.

    Or maybe they're telling the truth, who knows! I just have a bee up my bonnet about efforts to discredit legitimate news organizations.

    Did anyone else speak to piece of shit white supremacists leader besides the ADL? They seem to be the only source to have actually talked to him. All his tweets since the story broke have been contradicting the story.

    I don't think this is discrediting the AP (which is actually normally solid) but I don't think they would be immune to not realizing that the ADL messed up here by using 4chan and a hotline as their sources.
    The AP says Jereb spoke to "the Associated Press," which sounds like a separate conversation unless the ADL is part of the AP.

    The dude's Twitter account is suspended and I don't care enough to dig up cached stuff, but in the Google result info he says to check out this interview:
    http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-member-white-nationalist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

    So I'm leaning towards either the trolls trolling by saying they're trolling, or Jereb himself just lying.

    e: or, as noted above, simply wrong

    e2: and again, the reason I care so much about this is that presenting it as 4chan pulling a fast one over the media is playing right into the story they want to create out of it. Whether or not the dude actually associated with ROF, meh.

    surfpossum on
  • ErlkönigErlkönig Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    We can throw the "both sides" shit out the window now right?
    BREAKING: Leader of white nationalist group has confirmed suspect in Florida school shooting was member of his organization.

    AP has updated this statement to be the opposite due to

    1)The original sources being freaking 4chan and the ADL calling the ROF hotline and speaking to someone who identified themselves as the leader.
    2) Law enforcement stating they had been monitoring the ROF very closely and the shooter had no ties
    3) Someone actually speaking to the ROF leader and the guy saying he had no knowledge of the shooter being connected to the ROF at all.

    Dude could be a racist piece of trash or whatever, but let's wait till sources originate from something other than 4chan before we get outraged.
    Points 1 and 3 seem to be directly contradicted by the AP article, which confirms point 2, so I'm a little bit confused about where you're getting this info.

    I have heard the possibility that this Jereb guy was lying, but let's wait and see or whatever.

    Here's the source for point 1: https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz
    After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.
    Thanks, but I'm not convinced that we should just dismiss the possibility that the AP did speak to Jereb and the actual trolling is the claim that they didn't.

    Or maybe they're telling the truth, who knows! I just have a bee up my bonnet about efforts to discredit legitimate news organizations.

    Did anyone else speak to piece of shit white supremacists leader besides the ADL? They seem to be the only source to have actually talked to him. All his tweets since the story broke have been contradicting the story.

    I don't think this is discrediting the AP (which is actually normally solid) but I don't think they would be immune to not realizing that the ADL messed up here by using 4chan and a hotline as their sources.
    The AP says Jereb spoke to "the Associated Press," which sounds like a separate conversation unless the ADL is part of the AP.

    The dude's Twitter account is suspended and I don't care enough to dig up cached stuff, but in the Google result info he says to check out this interview:
    http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-member-white-nationalist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

    So I'm leaning towards either the trolls trolling by saying they're trolling, or Jereb himself just lying.

    Which part is the lie? The original statement or the backpedaling? If I'm 100% honest with myself, I think the hint is in the phone conversation he had with the Tallahassee Democrat when he said "No way to put a good spin on all of this," so he may be trying to take back any association his group had with the shooter.

    I would also raise my eyebrows a bit about the whole 'we have more than one person named Nikolas (or any variation of the Nicholas name)' from an organization with 12 members...but, I'm honestly not sure how common that name is in and around Tallahassee.

    edit - but this is all conjecture using the data that's available. As it is, I'll likely preface any news I spread with "I haven't confirmed this, so take it with a grain of salt, buuuuut...."

    Erlkönig on
    | Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Any European debaters and/or discoursers up late and in need of a bitter little laugh?


    Yes, that is some random Conservative claiming to have spoken to a European who was shocked, just shocked, that the school had no armed security guards.

    No, is the answer to your obvious question. I cannot think of a single school anywhere in Europe that has armed security guards.

    Like anybody who probably believes and retweets that guy would ever look anything about namby-pamby Europe up, much less visit it and see the truth for themselves

    I’m hoping they won’t be able to resist scrolling down the many hundred of European replies. Including mine.

    I refrained from swearing and everything, just to make sure it would show up.
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Any European debaters and/or discoursers up late and in need of a bitter little laugh?


    Yes, that is some random Conservative claiming to have spoken to a European who was shocked, just shocked, that the school had no armed security guards.

    No, is the answer to your obvious question. I cannot think of a single school anywhere in Europe that has armed security guards.

    Okay
    A. There was a security guard. He was of no use.
    B. What liberals are against security guards?

    A and B - it only counts if he was an ARMED security guard.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Infowars has been pushing the false narrative that the shooter was a registered Democratic who voted Democrat in the 2016 presidential election (the actual registration was for someone who had a different spelling of the name than the actual shooter, and the actual shooter was too young to vote in the 2016 election), that the shooter posted on Instagram celebrating ISIS (he actually made racist posts about ISIS and Muslims), and spreading an image from 4chan that supposedly showed the shooter was a communist (it was a picture of an actual communist, but it was not a picture of the shooter).

    It's fucking exhausting that we have to keep up with all the bullshit fake news going on at the same time as the real news.

    You could just ignore InfoWars and anything ever sourced from them entirely?

    I wish we could, but they have been amplified by the alt-right, and deliberate misinformation like this is getting read hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of times on Facebook and other social media sites.

    DarkPrimus on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Any European debaters and/or discoursers up late and in need of a bitter little laugh?


    Yes, that is some random Conservative claiming to have spoken to a European who was shocked, just shocked, that the school had no armed security guards.

    No, is the answer to your obvious question. I cannot think of a single school anywhere in Europe that has armed security guards.

    Okay
    A. There was a security guard. He was of no use.
    B. What liberals are against security guards?

    So if it’s the same person you’re referring to as “of no use,” the security guard was FUCKING HEROIC and gave his life to save a student:
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-sp-douglas-shooting-victim-aaron-feis-20180214-story.html

    l7ygmd1dd4p1.jpeg
    3b2y43dozpk3.jpeg
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Any European debaters and/or discoursers up late and in need of a bitter little laugh?


    Yes, that is some random Conservative claiming to have spoken to a European who was shocked, just shocked, that the school had no armed security guards.

    No, is the answer to your obvious question. I cannot think of a single school anywhere in Europe that has armed security guards.

    Okay
    A. There was a security guard. He was of no use.
    B. What liberals are against security guards?

    So if it’s the same person you’re referring to as “of no use,” the security guard was FUCKING HEROIC and gave his life to save a student:
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-sp-douglas-shooting-victim-aaron-feis-20180214-story.html

    I didn't realize the coach was also the security guard, but I was solely referring to stopping the gunman, since the argument is "only a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun".

    SyphonBlue on
    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    BBC news referred to the coach as a coach and security guard, so I knew he was both.

    They didn’t mention if he was armed though, and according to these ars- people, only armed security guards count. Since liberals object to armed security guards.

    (I’m almost certain what “liberals” object to is the need for armed security guards in schools, but I’m only a woman from a European country that has seen sectarian violence and acts of terrorism from long before I was born and that not only maintained a lower homicide rate throughout our terrorist war but that all through said war never saw the need for armed security guards in any school ever, but what the fuck do I know?)

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    BBC news referred to the coach as a coach and security guard, so I knew he was both.

    They didn’t mention if he was armed though, and according to these ars- people, only armed security guards count. Since liberals object to armed security guards.

    (I’m almost certain what “liberals” object to is the need for armed security guards in schools, but I’m only a woman from a European country that has seen sectarian violence and acts of terrorism from long before I was born and that not only maintained a lower homicide rate throughout our terrorist war but that all through said war never saw the need for armed security guards in any school ever, but what the fuck do I know?)

    I don't recall any firearms or guards at school in South Africa, but one day the police did tear gas my Uni campus. That was fun.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Any European debaters and/or discoursers up late and in need of a bitter little laugh?


    Yes, that is some random Conservative claiming to have spoken to a European who was shocked, just shocked, that the school had no armed security guards.

    No, is the answer to your obvious question. I cannot think of a single school anywhere in Europe that has armed security guards.

    Okay
    A. There was a security guard. He was of no use.
    B. What liberals are against security guards?

    So if it’s the same person you’re referring to as “of no use,” the security guard was FUCKING HEROIC and gave his life to save a student:
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-sp-douglas-shooting-victim-aaron-feis-20180214-story.html

    I didn't realize the coach was also the security guard, but I was solely referring to stopping the gunman, since the argument is "only a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun".

    No worries, I know what you meant in response to that turd’s tweet about his made up friend’s made up reaction.

    l7ygmd1dd4p1.jpeg
    3b2y43dozpk3.jpeg
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    I've heard today so many efforts to not talk about the real problem.

    It's mental illness, they're the reason.

    It's the "pussification" of kids, they need to be beaten more.

    It's antifa liberal rage. They are responsible for 90% of mass shootings.

    This is what happens when you take God out of schools.

    This is what happens when you take the Pledge of Allegiance out of schools.

    I'm quietly fuming right now.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Erlkönig wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    We can throw the "both sides" shit out the window now right?
    BREAKING: Leader of white nationalist group has confirmed suspect in Florida school shooting was member of his organization.

    AP has updated this statement to be the opposite due to

    1)The original sources being freaking 4chan and the ADL calling the ROF hotline and speaking to someone who identified themselves as the leader.
    2) Law enforcement stating they had been monitoring the ROF very closely and the shooter had no ties
    3) Someone actually speaking to the ROF leader and the guy saying he had no knowledge of the shooter being connected to the ROF at all.

    Dude could be a racist piece of trash or whatever, but let's wait till sources originate from something other than 4chan before we get outraged.
    Points 1 and 3 seem to be directly contradicted by the AP article, which confirms point 2, so I'm a little bit confused about where you're getting this info.

    I have heard the possibility that this Jereb guy was lying, but let's wait and see or whatever.

    Here's the source for point 1: https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz
    After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.
    Thanks, but I'm not convinced that we should just dismiss the possibility that the AP did speak to Jereb and the actual trolling is the claim that they didn't.

    Or maybe they're telling the truth, who knows! I just have a bee up my bonnet about efforts to discredit legitimate news organizations.

    Did anyone else speak to piece of shit white supremacists leader besides the ADL? They seem to be the only source to have actually talked to him. All his tweets since the story broke have been contradicting the story.

    I don't think this is discrediting the AP (which is actually normally solid) but I don't think they would be immune to not realizing that the ADL messed up here by using 4chan and a hotline as their sources.
    The AP says Jereb spoke to "the Associated Press," which sounds like a separate conversation unless the ADL is part of the AP.

    The dude's Twitter account is suspended and I don't care enough to dig up cached stuff, but in the Google result info he says to check out this interview:
    http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-member-white-nationalist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

    So I'm leaning towards either the trolls trolling by saying they're trolling, or Jereb himself just lying.

    Which part is the lie? The original statement or the backpedaling?

    Jereb is a ridiculous dipshit who wants to be relevant. I would guess the former.
    It may seem odd that Jereb would bring attention to his group by claiming a connection to Cruz, but Jereb has always been somewhat of a publicity seeker. In 2014, in fact, he wrote us to complain that we had not already listed ROF as a hate group. In April 2017, Michael Tubbs, the leader of the Florida chapter of the League of the South, a well-known hate group, wrote that Jereb ‘never misses a photo op’ and called him ‘a nut job who should be avoided.’

    https://www.splcenter.org/news/2018/02/15/splc-statement-florida-school-shooters-reported-membership-white-nationalist-hate-group

  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Any European debaters and/or discoursers up late and in need of a bitter little laugh?


    Yes, that is some random Conservative claiming to have spoken to a European who was shocked, just shocked, that the school had no armed security guards.

    No, is the answer to your obvious question. I cannot think of a single school anywhere in Europe that has armed security guards.

    Like anybody who probably believes and retweets that guy would ever look anything about namby-pamby Europe up, much less visit it and see the truth for themselves

    Don't you see the only answer is so many guns the entire country is neck deep in them and to go anywhere you have to wade thru guns like a ball pit, but no one can be shot because of the wall of guns surrounding you at all times!

    What, just have less guns you say? crazytalk

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  • ahavaahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Every new report on the hour today has had some update or another from Parkland.

    Usually, it's something from the victims family and/or classmates speaking. Talking, screaming, begging, crying for something to be done.

    And then the news report will say, "President Donald Trump spoke today and said that school safety will be his administrations first priority. But he said nothing about increased gun control."

    And they just leave it there, hanging there, in the air. The unspoken, the most heavy pause of a mere second at most that carries with it the most amazing damnation of everything American and Trumpian about the situation.

    One news report even mentioned that "President Obama tried many times to do something but was always unsuccessful". There is always a pause, always a moment of "if we could speak our minds we would have so many words, but we will leave them for you to hear if you are listening" at the end of each report.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    It makes me so sad to read about how the students and teachers all went int "lockdown mode" because of a "code red" etc. That shool shooting have been so normalised that there is a standard procedure for them is really depressing.

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    It makes me so sad to read about how the students and teachers all went int "lockdown mode" because of a "code red" etc. That shool shooting have been so normalised that there is a standard procedure for them is really depressing.

    They had just had a lockdown drill recently, which I hope helped

  • MrVyngaardMrVyngaard Live From New Etoile Straight Outta SosariaRegistered User regular
    Unfortunately, the perpetrator being a former student there also meant that he already knew very well of how they would react and could take that in consideration for planning his attack.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Every new report on the hour today has had some update or another from Parkland.

    Usually, it's something from the victims family and/or classmates speaking. Talking, screaming, begging, crying for something to be done.

    And then the news report will say, "President Donald Trump spoke today and said that school safety will be his administrations first priority. But he said nothing about increased gun control."

    And they just leave it there, hanging there, in the air. The unspoken, the most heavy pause of a mere second at most that carries with it the most amazing damnation of everything American and Trumpian about the situation.

    One news report even mentioned that "President Obama tried many times to do something but was always unsuccessful". There is always a pause, always a moment of "if we could speak our minds we would have so many words, but we will leave them for you to hear if you are listening" at the end of each report.

    I’m not expecting local news to go on an anti-Republican rant but why did they not simply add “Obama was unsuccessful because all Republicans and some Democrats in Congress opposed gun control measure being taken?”

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    People keep mentioning "mental illness" in regards to the shooter, but so far I haven't seen any suggestions of what that illness is.

    He certainly was aware of his actions and the consequences. You could say he is "disturbed", but that doesn't really mean anything.

  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    People keep mentioning "mental illness" in regards to the shooter, but so far I haven't seen any suggestions of what that illness is.

    He certainly was aware of his actions and the consequences. You could say he is "disturbed", but that doesn't really mean anything.

    It is a way to separate him from the general gun owning public and provide an out for gun lovers. He was not like us, he was sick, none of us would ever do that. Etc.

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    People keep mentioning "mental illness" in regards to the shooter, but so far I haven't seen any suggestions of what that illness is.

    He certainly was aware of his actions and the consequences. You could say he is "disturbed", but that doesn't really mean anything.

    It is a way to separate him from the general gun owning public and provide an out for gun lovers. He was not like us, he was sick, none of us would ever do that. Etc.

    because totally healthy individuals with no issues are randomly violent and say things like they want to grow up to be school shooters

  • AbacusAbacus Registered User regular
    Random hot takes from Twitter may not be the most useful thing to post.

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    furlion wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    People keep mentioning "mental illness" in regards to the shooter, but so far I haven't seen any suggestions of what that illness is.

    He certainly was aware of his actions and the consequences. You could say he is "disturbed", but that doesn't really mean anything.

    It is a way to separate him from the general gun owning public and provide an out for gun lovers. He was not like us, he was sick, none of us would ever do that. Etc.

    because totally healthy individuals with no issues are randomly violent and say things like they want to grow up to be school shooters

    I don't think anyone is saying he didn't have "issues", but the decisions were still his. Trying to blame a vague concept like mentall illness just seems bizarre.

    Does anyone who commits murder have a mental illness?

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    furlion wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    People keep mentioning "mental illness" in regards to the shooter, but so far I haven't seen any suggestions of what that illness is.

    He certainly was aware of his actions and the consequences. You could say he is "disturbed", but that doesn't really mean anything.

    It is a way to separate him from the general gun owning public and provide an out for gun lovers. He was not like us, he was sick, none of us would ever do that. Etc.

    because totally healthy individuals with no issues are randomly violent and say things like they want to grow up to be school shooters

    I don't think anyone is saying he didn't have "issues", but the decisions were still his. Trying to blame a vague concept like mentall illness just seems bizarre.

    Does anyone who commits murder have a mental illness?

    If they're white. It's been noted before, but the default assumption/reporting basically depends on the color of their skin.

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  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    furlion wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    People keep mentioning "mental illness" in regards to the shooter, but so far I haven't seen any suggestions of what that illness is.

    He certainly was aware of his actions and the consequences. You could say he is "disturbed", but that doesn't really mean anything.

    It is a way to separate him from the general gun owning public and provide an out for gun lovers. He was not like us, he was sick, none of us would ever do that. Etc.

    because totally healthy individuals with no issues are randomly violent and say things like they want to grow up to be school shooters

    Yeah actually they are. We are violent animals, barely contained by our own sense of right and wrong. And yes a teenager trying to be edgy would definitely say that kind of stupid shit. There is, as far as I am aware, no pattern or signs that a person is going to commit a mass shooting. So not sure what your point is here.

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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    People refuse to accept that ordinary sane people could do monstrous things.
    That there has to be something wrong with a mass murderer.
    Possibly, i'm not convinced though.
    Otherwise sane people can have beliefs, opinions and sets of information they act upon that can cause them to do monstrous things.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Insanity is only a defense if you didn’t know what you were doing - a psychotic break. The Florida killer seems to be some sort of sociopath which doesn’t get you any mercy in the eyes of the law, otherwise our prisons would be nearly empty.

    The question of what to do to help sociopaths is uncertain and expensive. It’d have to be some sort of intensive therapy while growing up. Medical science has no certain idea of how to help young people growing up with strong criminal tendencies.

    I’m certain that Trump and the Republicans don’t want to pour billions into research and treatment for troubled youths. For them “mental illness” is just another term for “act of God” - something bad that happens that we can’t do anything about.

This discussion has been closed.