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Blackmail and Bribery in Legislation [Delta, The NRA, and Georgia]
RickRude
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
EDIT* To keep this thing in scope, lets focus on the Delta, NRA, and Georgia ménage à trois. This is not a general gun thread for gun debate, nor is it for general debate against the NRA. It is specific to this. This will surely get the thread closed if it derails*** EDIT***
So I came across this article today, and I am dumbfounded on not only how this is legal, but is also front and center in the news like it ok and normal. Shouldn't this be backroom behind the scenes dirty stuff you never see or hear about?
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/26/news/companies/delta-nra-georgia-republican/index.html
So, there was a tax bill for Delta to recieve tax breaks from the state. Delta then stopped their partnership with the NRA, and now the republicans in the state are threatening to shut down the bill.
"Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back," he tweeted.
How is all a ok?
Hope this is enough for a thread, went through 20 pages looking for a place to post it, and would really like to get some more info and thoughts on this.
So I came across this article today, and I am dumbfounded on not only how this is legal, but is also front and center in the news like it ok and normal. Shouldn't this be backroom behind the scenes dirty stuff you never see or hear about?
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/26/news/companies/delta-nra-georgia-republican/index.html
The state's Republicans — including a major candidate for governor— are threatening to kill part of a bill that would eliminate a state tax on jet fuel. If it passes, the provision is expected to save the Atlanta-based airline tens of millions of dollars.
...
Hufstetler told CNN on Monday that if the airline does not reverse its stance on the NRA soon, he and others will push for the tax break to be stripped from the bill. The bill still needs to pass the Senate before it can be signed into law.
If Delta holds its ground, he added, "I don't think [the bill] will pass as it is."
The bill was until recently on track to earn approval from lawmakers.
Georgia's House of Representatives voted in favor of the legislation last week. It also won over Republican Governor Nathan Deal, who called the measure an important part of the state's tax reform plan that would "keep Georgia competitive as a major international hub of commerce."
Deal said at the time that he was "confident" in the bill's speedy passage.
Things changed over the weekend.
Delta became one of several companies — others include United Airlines (UAL) and Hertz (HTZ) — to abandon its relationship with the NRA after a school shooting in Florida two weeks ago left 17 dead. That shooting has sparked renewed public debate over gun laws and reform.
Georgia Republicans quickly rebuked the airline's decision.
Georgia Lieutenant Governor Casey Cagle, a frontrunner in the state's gubernatorial race this year, vowed to "kill any tax legislation" that helps Delta unless it reverses course.
"Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back," he tweeted.
So, there was a tax bill for Delta to recieve tax breaks from the state. Delta then stopped their partnership with the NRA, and now the republicans in the state are threatening to shut down the bill.
"Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back," he tweeted.
How is all a ok?
Hope this is enough for a thread, went through 20 pages looking for a place to post it, and would really like to get some more info and thoughts on this.
RickRude on
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This is not a gun control thread.
This won't last though, and I fully expect Delta to cave. Shareholders are going to start demanding it, looks like Delta's stock is down 1.75% today (as of this posting), so I fully expect the board to give in and give the NRA members their discount again.
I'd like to hope that Georgia could possibly be shooting themselves in the foot.
Virginia and New York tell Delta: You're welcome here
Edit:
more appropriate line given the topic
Law and Order ≠ Justice
Added a disclaimer to the top of the OP to reinforce that fact.
I wonder what would be worse for the company, caving to the NRA or not. I can imagine caving would also hurt stock as it would outrage people from the other direction.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Does that outrage come with tax cuts?
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
It'll come with reduced ticket sales as people avoid their airline for other not backing NRA ones.
pleasepaypreacher.net
In what world is a corporation exercising their right of association as dictated by their stock and shareholders not a conservative value?
In what world is government holding a tax break hostage to try to dictate a corporation's actions a conservative value?
This whole scenario displays exactly why an entire generation is fed up with the GOP. Look, I'm sure there are plenty of folks of all ages and backgrounds that would love to support a party that believes in fiscal responsibility, economic growth, and freedom! Your very actions show that you are not that party!
Also hope this leads to more companies divesting themselves of association with the NRA, they should’ve become toxic waste to do business with ages ago.
In the real world.
The values being attacked here, actual conservative values, are those expressed by the NRA as it relates to the culture war. By publicly distancing themselves from the NRA these companies have shown that they aren't with Team Conservative and so they are now the enemy and must be punished.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Yeah actually. I have status with Delta, it's the rewards card I've carried since I started flying more as a traveling consultant. Would drop them in a heartbeat over this.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
Yeah, this is one instance where the right-wing corporate dystopian race to the bottom actually hurts them.
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think so? The government has no compulsion to give Delta a tax break, and its surely legal to make tax breaks contingent on certain things because that seems to happen with every major corporate investment. The only wrinkle is that in this case they are explicitly promising a tax break only if a corporation allies with a political organization, but I am not sure that matters constitutionally
Call them and tell them, although, Delta has an artificial monopoly on most of its routes and hubs, as do all US airlines. Hard to avoid them.
They aren't under an obligation for a tax break, but I believe saying you only get one if you do what the government says feels like it would be a violation of the law. Kind of like you can fire someone for anything in an at will state, but you can't openly fire them for being a minority.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Everyone has the right to vote with their actions and their dollars. Hell, there's a fairly big Supreme Court case out there that says corporations are people too, remember? So as people, we are allowed to take our money and our business wherever we want. And that's what Delta is doing - taking its money from the NRA because it no longer wants to associate with them on such a public scale.
I find it very, very telling that anyone would say that NRA is conservatism, because such things change. If anything, this tells me just how much the NRA has bought off people, and should be an extremely big red flag.
I'm more than certain Delta could find better rates at other airports if they went hunting. The power is pretty much in Delta's hands. While I don't like race to the bottom tax breaks, that is kind of the way of the world... So hold the politicians over a barrel.
Legally the issue is uncertain because of things involving standing; it otherwise would likely fall under a bill of attainder.
It could also be an issue of extortion (but good luck getting the FBI/DoJ or Georgia to investigate ) but I don’t know enough about that to say.
Morally though it’s abhorrent
It is a tax that existed, sunset, and they are proposing again.
The mayor of Birmingham Alabama too.
https://articles.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2018/02/birmingham_mayor_tweets_to_del.amp
Here's the thing though: half of georgia's population is outside metro Atlanta. Most of the rest of the state might as well be Alabama East or South South Carolina, rural hickistans that hate Atlanta because it's liberal/gay/black/successful. If Delta decided to move its HQ (and jobs) elsewhere, those people will laugh at Atlantans losing their jobs. If the state overall gets hurt because of it and it does bounce back to them, they won't notice because it's too indirect and too hard to figure out the connections. They hate other people far, far more than they care about themselves.
Below is a partial clip of this, in case anyone's interested. He claims that he heard of Delta giving discounts to members of liberal groups (he does use Planned Parenthood as his example; I'm not sure how that works), but the CNN anchor is having none of it, and tells him "uh, we just looked that up and can't find any evidence." He then mumbles and bumbles on about how his staff will get that info.
He's actually a GA State Senator. He's such a peach: he's the guy who auctioned off a bump stock right after Las Vegas to prove his pro-gun #2A #molonlabe creds. He seems like a generally horrible person.
[ed] Maybe provide the link, dummy... :rotate:
Eh, thats some pretty WEAK interview technique there. Stumbling and stammering, not asking quick concise statements and not using lots of definition words. Yet again, go and watch some damned BBC interviews CNN staff. Hell, go and see the interview of Marco Rubio by the teenager asking him to refuse NRA donations.
If someone lies, and you have taken the time to fact check them, then you have this statement ready for the interview to be delivered in a clear voice.
Senator Dirtbag - "Blah blah planned parenthood"
Interviewer - "We've contacted Delta, they have never in their corporate history offered a ticket discount to planned parenthood members. Here is a statement from their legal team. They have specifically stated that no discount of that sort is or has been available. And, they go further and say that if such as discount has ever been offered in error in the past, and can be uncovered to still be operational today, they will immediately rescind it. Why are you claiming they are offering a discount when that can be proven to be a lie?"
Senator - "urr"
Interviewer - "If you don't know the source of the statements you make, who is in charge at your campaign and can we speak to them instead of you?"
But if they could (and somehow not have the collateral damage to the local economy and people) , I really wish they'd tell the state congress to pound sand and then move to friendlier locales.
I hope they stand firm on the NRA and don't go bleed some other state.
They just got a federal tax cut*. That fuel tax break sounds like icing on the cake.
*I assume?
I don't think she could prove they didn't, she just couldn't find evidence that they did. She almost affirmatively stated it wasn't true but caught herself.
She could have gone after him at the end, though, when he pivoted to from "Delta gives money to Planned Parenthood and liberal groups" to "I will come back with proof that Delta gives money to... left leaning organizations that support Planned Parenthood [yeah, that's the ticket]"
This sickens me on so many levels. The round and about he goes, the confusing fact from opinion, never giving an example, and being broad enough that sometimes he's factual and makes points. IE I'm sure Delta gives some discounts to left leaning organizations. And Planned Parenthood Is a left leaning organization. But A + B doesn't make C always? This is more like A X B - n / the amount of clouds in the sky type logic. It's sickening.
And as bad as all that is, the worst part to me is he's still defending everything on a partisian issue and that all of this is ok. For everything that's not ok, the way he so smugly defends this course of action, in public, and with people who vote cheering him for it. It sickens me.
A left issue, a right issue, it doesn't matter. This isn't how our government is supposed to work. This is fucking high school prom king bullshit.
She knew he had made the statement in advance, she was planning to ask him about the statement. Trust your research team, and get damn Delta Legal team on the conference call to say "We don't give discounts to Planned Parenthood".
"Why are you lying to the US public Senator Dirtbag? What do you have to gain from lying."
And don't get him on video conference. Get him in the damn studio on a crappy chair around the desk from you. Cut that idiot to pieces and dump him out the garbage chute. Jeremy Paxman would have eviscerated him. The Senator is an idiot, but I'm not giving CNN lady props for almost calling him a liar when he's sitting right there telling a demonstrable lie that you knew he was going to tell.
Hard to prove a negative.
Honestly I thought it was more poignant to see her flabbergasted at the brazen lie. That he was full of shit still came across clearly. Critiquing someone’s interview skills when they did call out the lie is a waste of time (you didn’t really do this but others are).
Anyway regarding this whole situation, while the tax cut itself isn’t something I would necessarily support, that they are brazenly refusing to pass it because the NRA told them not to is disgusting.
I was talking with my GF earlier about this. I know nothing of the original tax cut for delta, no clue if I agree with it. However I do know I do not agree with the bullshit that's being pulled to no make sure it doesn't pass. The original deal may have been normal behind the looking glass deals you never see or hear about, and it's bullshit, but the bullshit being used to block it is even more blatant bullshit and seems like its obviously a game of bribing and blackmail to get legislation passed in this country.
And I know, it kind of is that way, but this is just out in your face blatant bribery/blackmail/scratch your back scratch mine, whatever it is but it should be illegal.
And it's sickening. And until I posted this thread I had barely heard a blip on it.
I don't know if delta should get the tax break and honestly I don't care. I'm more concerned with how petty our politics are how and how obviously our elected officials don't actually give a fuck about any of us. That's what I get from all of this.
Openly threatening Delta like this is still a shitty, possibly illegal/unconstitutional thing to do. But they have correctly identified what the left is up to here.
In the war of economies, Delta ought to win over the NRA every time.
Quick googling shows the NRA represents an industry worth about $32 Billion. That's a lot of money! However, Delta's current market share is over $38 Billion all by itself. They have more worth! If Georgia's government pits these two organizations against each other and both of them stand firm, I guarantee the business that actually headquarters itself in the state and generates even more money through tourism and related businesses is going to be able to exact far more pressure than what boils down to a niche lobbying organization whose members are diluted around other states and won't affect or influence the Georgia state politics nearly as much as a major employer like Delta can.
But the left didn't force Delta to do anything. I've seen movements to boycott stores and such due to political agenda, and there has been talk about people using their wallet and saying they won't support things that support/are supported by the NRA. And I know some companies have cancelled their perks for NRA members, but I don't see how the left forced anything.