As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

Roommate, lease and landlord problems

13»

Posts

  • Options
    JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Belketre wrote: »
    Not under any law I've ever seen. Not unless they are knowingly allowing them to traffic or deal in their presence anyway. If the OP and his friend are moved out, and these guys get busted, they aren't going to be charged with anything.

    I've seen and heard often enough of 4 people in a car and one has drugs on them, and only the person in posession gets busted, and the rest get sent on their merry way.

    Again, involving the police when it isn't necessary is going to make recovering any damages a hell of a lot harder.
    You think that the police are going to go into the house and go "there's a shitload of drugs in here! Well, I bet you it's just these guys here and the cousin guy that own it so those two guys who are still on the lease as renters but aren't here right now must have nothing to do with it."

    You think it's wrong to call the police because he's family? What are you a pussy? So it's fine if the cousin walks all over you and the cousins family are fine with it and you've had all your property damaged along with one of your friends having to take shit aswell, and remember that giving the cousin a beating can make you exempt from pulling any future charges against him. Calling the cops may even get this guy to really fucking listen, and I think i'd be with Doc in that (as it's my property)(and if I lived in the US) i'd probably have them out of my house whilst watching at shotgun barrel distance.

    Don't even act like your mother or brother or sister is anything like cousin anyway. Your cousin is normally just someone you're friends with, and if you don't want to do it get the friend to do it.

    If my cousin was that much of an idiot and still didn't listen after I came back saying "what the fuck are you doing? Hell no!" i'd just say "sorry auntie blah and uncle blah, your son/daughter is being a fucking idiot and unless they get the fuck out right now i'm afraid legal action is the only way to recover reparations on damaged property, finding a new place, and the rent we paid whilst those fucktards lived there.

    Johannen on
  • Options
    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    I think you're missing the part where drug use is illegal, and that not reporting it makes the OP and his buddy accessories when the retards inevitably get pinched. If they're going to go anywhere near legal action, they pretty much have to report that stuff to cover themselves. Its not really about revenge. Not primarily, anyway ;)
    What the hell? No. Absolutely no. In fact, just the opposite. First of all, they will never be charged as accessories for anything, give me a break. Secondly, you can find yourself in civil liability for malicious use of the law. Calling the cops on someone for drug use is not an acceptable manner for resolving lease disputes. They are separate issues.

    If OP and his friend have ever sat idly by while the cousin smoked a joint, and they didn't call the cops then, a judge may recognize that they are calling the cops now not as a duty of citizenship, but as a subversive way of trying to resolve an entirely separate issue. And a lot of judges don't like that.
    Geirskogul wrote: »
    And eventually, The Cat, yes, we may have to. Lets hope that, right now, we don't have to. I'm certain you can see how it could exacerbate the current problem.
    Exactly.
    Blaket wrote: »
    He didn't dissapear for months though, he showed up before rent is due. And more importantly left all of his shit there.
    And again I have to point out that leases are not generally written with this scenario in mind, and that the particular details in this case may or may not have any relevance whatsoever to legal standing under the lease.
    Blaket wrote: »
    This was obviously an absolute dickish move and the cousin deserves to be damm well stomped upon with the full length of the law.
    Right, I'm having trouble getting my point across that I'm not defending this guy. I'm trying to explain why some leases can and will be written to make this sort of dick-move entirely legitimate.

    Ok, pretend I'm the cousin for a minute: "Your honor, they just took off and left me and didn't tell me when they were coming back. Rent is due on the first, but isn't considered late until the 5th. When I didn't hear from them by the first, I got worried. I didn't have enough money to pay all of their rent. Late rent payments can affect credit ratings and rental history and put me at a significant disadvantage. By the morning of the fifth I still hadn't heard from them, and I had two friends willing to pay the rest of the rent if they could move in right away. If I didn't get them in right away, I'd have a late rent payment, and I didn't know if anyone would ever give me the money to pay it. After they signed the lease and paid their rent and moved in, then my roommates showed up that afternoon with their rent."

    Now, I'm not saying that's what happened. I probably have a lot of the details wrong. But I am saying that sort of thing is common, and that leases often accomodate it. People do leave. They say they're going on a trip, and they end up gone for three or four months, and just assume they can come get their stuff when they get back. I'm not saying that's what OPs did, I know that isn't what they did, but that is what a lot of young joint tenants do. Practically all of the H/A threads that aren't about computers or dating are about problems with roommates. This kind of shit happens a lot. Leases don't include details about whether or not one of the joint tenant took his stuff with him or not, or how long he's been gone, or whether or not he told someone he'd pay the rent, or whatever, because that isn't very relevant to the landlord. They may include an ability to scratch someone off and add someone else on, though. Becauase that keeps the place occupied and the rent flowing.

    All I'm saying is that regardless of what a dick this cousin is, or how much he lied, it is entirely possible, though not certain, that he did something the lease allowed.

    Their best bet is to find a new place and pressue the landlord to help them with that. Once they have that, the issue of who is supposed to live where is de facto solved, and so the dispute is over who was wrong, not who is supposed to be where. Then they can sue for damages or whatever, but more than likely the best bet will be to cut losses.

    New question: Did you guys actually pay the rent on the 5th, or did you just show up with rent and then found new people living there?

    EDIT: Also, Belk is right, Johannen is wrong.

    Another new question: What is your goal now? Do you seek to have the new tenants evicted and move back in with your cousin? Or do you just seek to move out but get some sort of justice or retribution for all this? Because if it's the latter, then like I said, the issue of whether or not they are supposed to be there becomes somewhat moot.

    Yar on
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I doubt anyone would want to move back in with such people but he should try to get something out of this. He should get his original lease legally nullified, get his rent and deposit back in full plus his cousin should pay his moving and any other expenses incurred by this(hotels, apt hunting, etc) and the cost of any damage to his personal property.

    Also the landlord's actions should be reviewed thoroughly by a judge and detemined if he owes any fines for his part in this.

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    ArcathanArcathan Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    To Yar - our main goal right now is to just make sure that our names are off the lease. We don't want this coming back and haunting us if something happened to the apartment (which is likely seeing as how the people who live there now are a bunch of fuckers). Right now all I care about is that the property management people will make a new lease for the apartment with the new people and my cousin and our names nowhere near that piece of paper. Our - or at least my - next goal is to get the deposit back and split it (minus any damages that we caused). After that, I'm thinking I'll be going to the police with my cousin's little drug problem.

    Arcathan on
  • Options
    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Arcathan wrote: »
    To Yar - our main goal right now is to just make sure that our names are off the lease. We don't want this coming back and haunting us if something happened to the apartment (which is likely seeing as how the people who live there now are a bunch of fuckers). Right now all I care about is that the property management people will make a new lease for the apartment with the new people and my cousin and our names nowhere near that piece of paper. Our - or at least my - next goal is to get the deposit back and split it (minus any damages that we caused). After that, I'm thinking I'll be going to the police with my cousin's little drug problem.
    As far as you're concerned, any damages should be the responsibility of the new tenants. That's the least the landlord can do for you.

    Thanatos on
  • Options
    MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Yar: adding new people to a lease without the cotenants' approval/signature IS NOT ALLOWED. No matter how you try to play it, the cousin is in the wrong.

    Medopine on
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Medopine wrote: »
    Yar: adding new people to a lease without the cotenants' approval/signature IS NOT ALLOWED. No matter how you try to play it, the cousin is in the wrong.

    He's saying there might be some sort of abandonment clause in the lease that would allow the cousin to say he'd ditched them and walked out. course if you could do that after 11 days with no rent payment even missed yet I'd be really baffled. Msot leases do have a enters are one unit policy. For mine stuff like repairs and dealing witht eh landlaord can be done equally by either of us. That's normal and makes perfect sense. However I couldnt' change the lease without my roommate signing off on it too nor would I ever sign a lease that allowed such a thing. My and my roommate get along but we do have differences. If this kind of thing was allowed you'd be able to claim abadonment when the other guy went home for a long weekend and thorw his shit out of the street. Far as I know with my lease if he vanished I'd have togo to court and get my lease legally annulled before signing a new one.

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    I think the only way for any of us to make a judgment call on what his lease does or does not allow, we would have to see the exact wording of said lease. Otherwise, everything being said here is just speculation.

    Moe Fwacky on
    E6LkoFK.png

  • Options
    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Guess I'll throw in my 2 cents, which at this point is agree/disagreeing with points already made.

    - I'd definitely call the cops on the drug thing, unless the cousin's been doing drugs in front of you for months before this. That probably would look bad on you that you're just reporting it now, although I have no idea whether or not you'd get in real trouble for it. In any case it'd get them out of your place and away from your stuff, which brings me to

    - Get your stuff out of there as soon as you can find a place to put it. Like Cat said, if these guys were more than willing to steal your home, they'd probably have no problem pawning shit, especially if they're using hard drugs.

    - As for suing the landlord or calling the cops on the new guys for trespassing, it might not be so important if you're not planning to go back and would rather let the new guys keep it. But I would definitely want the full deposit back, damages be damned, and would look into seeing, legally, if there's some sort of compensation you're due for with all this shit.

    Scooter on
  • Options
    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I've read some sample leases lately, and here's what I've found (in those leases, anyway):

    If at any time, for any reason, the landlord believes in good faith that the tenant has abandoned, and the rent for the current month is unpaid, then regardless of timeframe or of any property that may still be in the apartment, the tenant can be declared abandoned.

    The word of an acquaintance is given as an example of a good faith reason to believe. And if the rent isn't paid on April 1st, then the current month's rent isn't paid, even if the due date is given as the 5th.

    But I agree with the above posts. It depends on what your lease says and how local laws treat abandonment. Get your stuff and get a new place.

    So, my question again (this time broader) - what rent did you pay, and when? When did the new move-in occur?

    And based on your response to my other question - I agree with your goals as stated: get your name off the lease and get your deposit back. Those are good goals. Don't expect much beyond that. After that, what you're talking about is wanting revenge. Judges and cops will recognize that and likely not give you a lot of consideration.

    Yar on
  • Options
    JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yar.. what am I wrong about?

    Edit: Actually I don't care i'm going to be horrendously smashed in about four hours and don't want this troubling me :P

    Johannen on
  • Options
    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yar wrote: »
    The word of an acquaintance is given as an example of a good faith reason to believe. And if the rent isn't paid on April 1st, then the current month's rent isn't paid, even if the due date is given as the 5th.

    If the due date is the 5th, then the rent is due the 5th. Not the 1st.

    Unless I'm missing something here, I've never lived in an apartment where I paid rent -after- the month was up.

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • Options
    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Question:

    Have they fucked with your deposit in any way?

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • Options
    JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Johannen wrote: »
    Yar.. what am I wrong about?

    Edit: Actually I don't care i'm going to be horrendously smashed in about four hours and don't want this troubling me :P

    Actually fuck that, in what way am I wrong? Your such a fucking ass talking douche, lets hear some evidence aainst what you say cunt bash.

    Johannen on
  • Options
    BelketreBelketre Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Calling somebody a pussy because they'd rather deal with a situation themself rather than be a ladyboy and call the police may be a good starting point....

    Belketre on
  • Options
    drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    The word of an acquaintance is given as an example of a good faith reason to believe. And if the rent isn't paid on April 1st, then the current month's rent isn't paid, even if the due date is given as the 5th.

    If the due date is the 5th, then the rent is due the 5th. Not the 1st.

    Unless I'm missing something here, I've never lived in an apartment where I paid rent -after- the month was up.

    We're mixing words. The due date was probably the 1st, with a grace period until the 5th. If the rent is not paid by the 1st, they still have all legal standings to start the eviction process on the 2nd. The extension is a courtesy.

    drhazard on
    SCB.jpg
  • Options
    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Yar wrote: »
    And based on your response to my other question - I agree with your goals as stated: get your name off the lease and get your deposit back. Those are good goals. Don't expect much beyond that. After that, what you're talking about is wanting revenge. Judges and cops will recognize that and likely fucking hate you and not want to help you if they can avoid it.

    ViolentChemistry on
  • Options
    imbalancedimbalanced Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yar wrote: »
    And based on your response to my other question - I agree with your goals as stated: get your name off the lease and get your deposit back. Those are good goals. Don't expect much beyond that. After that, what you're talking about is wanting revenge. Judges and cops will recognize that and likely fucking hate you and not want to help you if they can avoid it.

    Uh, our whole legal system is based on legitimate retaliation. The judicial branch isn't going to be pissed because they were displaced from their own home, their furnishings were broken, and they were distressed by the whole situation. This whole situation shouldn't have happened, and they have every right to bring about legal recourse (and they absolutely should do it).

    imbalanced on
    idc-sig.png
    Wii Code: 1040-1320-0724-3613 :!!:
  • Options
    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    If the due date is the 5th, then the rent is due the 5th. Not the 1st.

    Unless I'm missing something here, I've never lived in an apartment where I paid rent -after- the month was up.

    Imagine it's April 2nd.

    What is the current month?

    April.

    Have you paid rent for April?

    No, it isn't due until the 5th (actually, it's usually dues the 1st and considered past due after the 5th, but whatever)

    Then, while not overdue, the current month's rent isn't paid nevertheless, because the current month is April and the April rent isn't paid. And a clause specifying current's month rent being unpaid (which is how these clauses are often written) applies.

    This isn't so hard to understand. If sometime in the month of April (i.e., the 4th), the landlord was given reason to believe the guys weren't coming back (i.e., because the cousin said so), and they hadn't paid April rent yet, then the way the clause is written in the leases I've seen means that the landlord can consider it abandoned and put new people on. Some write it as "after the due date" and some write it as "current month" and so on, so again, it all depends. I'm just very wary of everyone in here being so sure of themselves that these new tenants are fucked and the OP and friend have every right to do what the hell ever. It may not be true at all. It is at least possible that the best these guys can do is find a new place and cut losses.

    drhazard wrote: »
    We're mixing words. The due date was probably the 1st, with a grace period until the 5th. If the rent is not paid by the 1st, they still have all legal standings to start the eviction process on the 2nd. The extension is a courtesy.
    For the most part, yeah.
    Johannen wrote: »
    in what way am I wrong?
    Johannen wrote: »
    You think that the police are going to go into the house and go "there's a shitload of drugs in here! Well, I bet you it's just these guys here and the cousin guy that own it so those two guys who are still on the lease as renters but aren't here right now must have nothing to do with it."
    This is where you are wrong. If a cop finds drugs on someone, they don't request a copy of that person's lease so that they can go arrest everyone on it, even ones who aren't even living there anymore. Generally, they arrest the people who appear to be committing a crime, such as the ones who have drugs on them. The notion that OP is somehow going to get implicated in a drug scheme is certainly possible, but not very reasonable at all.
    Johannen wrote: »
    I think i'd be with Doc in that (as it's my property)(and if I lived in the US) i'd probably have them out of my house whilst watching at shotgun barrel distance.
    And wrong here. We have no way of knowing who has legal authority to live there, and it may very well be the new tenants. Either way, escorting them out with a gun when it's obvious that they aren't breaking and entering, but rather are there under the presumption that they live and pay rent there, is a good way to get yourself in prison.
    imbalanced wrote: »
    Uh, our whole legal system is based on legitimate retaliation.
    Maybe, but calling the cops on someone about drugs because you're mad over a lease dispute is not "legitimate," that's what we're saying. Cops and judges generally don't like it when you try to "work the system" that they manage for a living. If you want to report a crime, report a crime. If you want to resolve a lease dispute, hire a lawyer and try to resolve it. Don't mix the two, they aren't related.

    Yar on
  • Options
    ArcathanArcathan Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Sorry for being absent for some time - a lot of drama build-up. So, for starters, I'll explain what's gone on after I came down to find douche bags in my apartment:

    After going to the apartment, I had to find a place to stay. An invisible character so far is my cat, Harlequin. He stayed at my grandparent's house while I stayed at my parent's house due to my brother being violently allergic.

    I searched for legal advice. Basically, I emailed a friend (more like a mentor) of mine who happens to be a city attorney about what happened. I then called my parent's lawyer, and asked him the same question. So far, the response I've gotten is: wait until my cousin gets back into town next week and have him sign a legal document (along with my friend and I's signature) stating that both of our names are off the lease, and they can go ahead and put the other people's names on the lease. I hate this because it means 1) I have to wait, and 2) it just doesn't feel like I should have to do this, seeing as how the property management people fucked up big time.

    And now a new situation has arised (well, actually two). My fucking car doesn't work anymore. And second, my grandparents are now mad at me because of all this apartment shit (basically my cousin lied to my grandparent's, and they don't believe a word I say) and now they've basically said I need to get my cat out of their house by tonight.

    So, this leaves me in a predicament. A total, bullshit fucked up predicament.

    Why does God hate me?

    Arcathan on
  • Options
    drinkinstoutdrinkinstout Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    God doesn't hate you, life just sucks some times :(

    I don't know much about the legal aspects and I won't suggest ways to get back at people but when my dad faced a similar situation, he had to stay at some temporary housing/motel places till he got things straightened out. They're not all bad and if you need a place to stay immediately and for a short period of time, they can work - and are usually fairly cheap per day compared to renting an apartment short term.

    I hate it when things like this happen with family because you can't just say screw off and disappear - I would personally try to not make things worse because of the family aspect - even if people seem to be taking his side. I'd be the better man in the situation.

    drinkinstout on
  • Options
    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    If you do have to find a motel/hotel for a while, keeps receipt, and sue your cousin for the cost of it?

    Kyougu on
  • Options
    ArcathanArcathan Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I don't know what I'm going to do about my cat. That's a little snag in my life story. But, I've been able to get an appointment with a mechanic, so that's good. Says it should only take a few hours to fix. And as soon as I get the lease stuff straightened out, I'm planning on disappearing. There's nothing I hate more than waiting.

    Edit: Oh, and I have absolutely no money for even a cheap hotel. I'm flat out broke.

    Arcathan on
  • Options
    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    Fuck your extended family. If they are going to be fuckups, don't let them drag you down with them. Once this is over, learn your lesson and don't fucking trust them with anything.

    Doc on
  • Options
    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Arcathan wrote: »
    Edit: Oh, and I have absolutely no money for even a cheap hotel. I'm flat out broke.
    ...what happened to your rent money?

    Yar on
  • Options
    GeirskogulGeirskogul Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yar wrote: »
    Arcathan wrote: »
    Edit: Oh, and I have absolutely no money for even a cheap hotel. I'm flat out broke.
    ...what happened to your rent money?
    I'm guessing: Mechanic

    Geirskogul on
  • Options
    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    So you would have been out of a place to live regardless. I guess it's a good thing that your cousin moved you out.

    Do you have a sense of why the grandparents are on his side? What did he tell them?

    Yar on
  • Options
    ArcathanArcathan Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Cousin told them that I had screwed him over by just up and leaving without paying rent money. Said he was worried that I wasn't coming back (even though my shit was all there) and that I bailed on him. Oh, and told them that he had taken care of everything - the lease, my crap, and everything like that - and that I was freaking out over nothing. "Freaking out" meaning getting legal advice and shit. He told this to them before he left for a week and half on business. Lol, guess if I wanted to I could do the same thing that he did to me. But right now, I just really want this shit taken care of - ending with mine and Geirskogul's names off the lease.

    Edit: Rent money used for mechanic. Even if it hadn't been used for a mechanic, I'd have only been able to get so far on $250 living in a hotel, with gas and food.

    Arcathan on
  • Options
    GeirskogulGeirskogul Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yar wrote: »
    So you would have been out of a place to live regardless. I guess it's a good thing that your cousin moved you out.
    No, if we weren't forcefully moved out, then we would have payed rent, and MADE the car deal work (either by sharing cars, or somesuch).

    Geirskogul on
  • Options
    drinkinstoutdrinkinstout Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    whichever one of you two isnt related to the bastard should beat the shit out of him... you know, just sayin....

    can I say this here? guess if not I'll find out :)

    drinkinstout on
  • Options
    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    What about friends? Could they take on a kitty for a few days while you go to your parents?

    But better yet kicking your cousin out seems like an even better plan (but I like revenge).

    Blake T on
  • Options
    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    What the hell kind of grandparents pull shit like that?

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Sign In or Register to comment.