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Getting a metal part fabricated? UPDATE: welding question
Syngyne
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I have an Obutto R3volution cockpit, which comes with mounts for joysticks. They look similar to what's pictured here:
https://www.obutto.eu/en/r3volution/21-obutto-flight-stick-throttle-mount.html
Basically, steel tubes bent at right angles, with a metal plate on top. They worked fine up until I got a new joystick. The stick itself is taller than my old one, and it's not as comfortable to use with the current mounts. So, I'm looking at either trimming some vertical height off the current mount, or fabricating a completely new part.
I have no idea what is involved in doing this. Ideally, I'd like to go with the second option, as I could get the plates pre-drilled with holes for my joystick and throttle (which are currently attached with industrial velcro). Does anyone have experience getting metal parts like this made? I'm assuming that I can't just walk into a place with sketches on a napkin or something. I'm also assuming it's not going to be cheap. What kind of cost would I be looking at?
https://www.obutto.eu/en/r3volution/21-obutto-flight-stick-throttle-mount.html
Basically, steel tubes bent at right angles, with a metal plate on top. They worked fine up until I got a new joystick. The stick itself is taller than my old one, and it's not as comfortable to use with the current mounts. So, I'm looking at either trimming some vertical height off the current mount, or fabricating a completely new part.
I have no idea what is involved in doing this. Ideally, I'd like to go with the second option, as I could get the plates pre-drilled with holes for my joystick and throttle (which are currently attached with industrial velcro). Does anyone have experience getting metal parts like this made? I'm assuming that I can't just walk into a place with sketches on a napkin or something. I'm also assuming it's not going to be cheap. What kind of cost would I be looking at?
Syngyne on
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not any shop will do this though. i once toured a metal fab shop and they said they don't even plug in the machine unless you're ordering volume in the thousands
i bet you'd have more luck with a hobbyist than a professional outfit, cost-wise
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
I'm not sure where you're located, but you might try looking up any makerspaces near you and see if any of them have metal working tools.
From the pictures you linked to, a drill press and a tap set should let you drill new holes in your existing mount to lower the joystick mounting plate using existing hardware, as well as add new holes to the plate itself to fit your current hardware. The taps will let you thread the new holes you drill if that's important. I'm guessing these aren't the exact model you've got so that may not be useful information.
If you could post some pictures of your set up that might help figure out how to modify the hardware or an alternative to making a new one.
Fake edit: looking at the pictures on that website, I wonder if it might be easier to just buy a chunk of steel plate, drill some holes at the top to attach to the existing rail, then some holes lower for the mount itself. Wouldn't take care of the mounting points for the stick, but should give you the flexibility to put the stick at the exact height you wanted. Should be able to do that with a hand drill and a hacksaw (and a bit of elbow grease to cut the metal plate to the size you need).
So shop time is normally somewhere in the $50 to $100 an hour range. Since a new set of them only seems to be about $80, I think it'd be more cost effective to just modify what you have, and maybe just get a 2nd set if its get screwed up, or you want to go back to the old stick.
Is the issue that you can't lower them far enough because the inner tube is too long and they bottom out, or that the bend in the tube hits the top of the outer tube?
If all you need to do is trim down one of the tubes you can do this with a hacksaw or if you mark where you want it cut, any muffler place(better luck if local shop) will have a grinder with a cut off wheel and would probably do it for free if you ask. It would take literally seconds to do.
You can probably drill the mounting holes in the base plates yourself as well with a power drill. Just use a center punch to start, and a drill bit for steel.
2. If you're in the city it might be tougher, but if you have a technical institute/school focused on welding/machining/etc nearby it can't hurt to ask. Here in Sweden they often love welding jobs as long as you pay for the materials and don't mind it not looking 100% pro.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
What makes it tough is that the area in red is what I need to trim, so I'd have to weld it back together after the cuts are made. The throttle mount is similar, just with a shorter horizontal bar.
I have actually been looking into the Dallas Makerspace because I want to learn how to weld, but unfortunately I'm currently on a schedule that makes it hard to attend any classes (I'm on central US time but working on UK time).
So stupid question, couldn't you just put a riser block on the bottom of your chair that would adjust where you mount the entire assembly? That seems like something you could manage with a drill and would be far cheaper to fabricate if you went that route.
My suggestion, if you want to do this yourself without welding costs:
Get a dowel that will fit snugly inside the pipe (a little wiggle room wouldn't hurt but you don't want it too loose). I'm guessing 5/8 inch or 1/2 inch since we're looking at internal diameter. Also some epoxy or super glue.
Cut out the excess material you don't need (measure twice here, because you only get to cut it too short once).
Fit the dowel between the two parts you're keeping and fix it in place with your adhesive of choice.
Here's how the mount attaches to the frame(spoiler for large):
Taken from Obutto's assembly video
You attach brackets to the frame that runs beneath the seat, slide the mount's vertical tube down inside, and tighten a screw to keep the mount from rotating (In the original picture above, you can see a shiny area where the screw rubbed against the mount). It might be possible to make a plate or something that bolts to the frame, hangs down a few inches, and has two holes to bolt the bracket to, but I'd be a little concerned about how secure it would be. I can't run anything across the top of the frame because the seat is bolted there. Maybe two plates with a square tube the same size as the frame? But then it sounds like I'm back to getting a part of some sort made.
Edit:
Hmm... this might work.
Or cut it and use a straight pipe connector. You may even be able to get it threaded.
It would be a piece but it's a piece that could be knocked off in like 15 minutes by anybody even mildly handy. Flat plate, rough cut to size, drill four holes, grind down the edges to make them smooth. That is super easy if you've got a band saw/drill press/belt sander. As for sturdy, that's gonna be on thick a plate you use. It would definitely work on those side mounts if you can tolerate the entire assembly moving down those few inches you're talking.
I couldn't get a good look at the front mount to know how hard it would be to put a spacer in there.
This wouldn't be too bad with tools you may already have. A hacksaw shouldn't be too expensive for the two cuts.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Just use a cutting wheel to do the trim, debar it with a good file, and use some pvc (or even some metal conduit) in there to stiffen it up with some epoxy.
Bonus points for wrapping it with cloth or canvas to make it look like a flight stick on some jungle plane that got beat to shit.
This is what you want to do. Always through bolt when possible. Get a couple button head hex drive bolts with some low-profile nylocs and it should be fairly unobtrusive.
Few adhesives bond well with powdercoat, it's mostly mechanical at that point. If you're going to use adhesives on the inside (where it's just steel), please use something like Permatex, Plexus, or a JB Weld product. Your standard two-part epoxy won't bond super well (at all) with the steel and basically just be a very soft shim.
As a point of order, none of those "pipes" (round tube) are bent. Those are all just butt welds, probably mild steel (since it's powder coated). Anyone who can weld can work that material (welding mild is like the first thing they learn), the issue is going to be finish.
If you want a perfect finish, you're looking at a fair bit due to shop and batch minimums. If you don't mind visible work, you'll need someone to: Cut the tube twice, grind back the powder coat, butt it up, reweld, grind it clean. It's like an hour job at the absolute most, but no one will touch it for less than ~$50. Lots of fucking around getting those tubes to match up without a jig.
If you can get your hands on a bandsaw (I'd wager the wall thickness on that rd tube is 0.065 or something trivial) or cutoff wheel (do you have a corded Dremel?), you could go with the "cut it and shim it with a dowel, through bolt it all back together".
Could you shorten the tube it mounts to and just drill a new fixture hole? Does it have to be shortened at the shown point? Could we just lower it's mounting point by an equal amount?
Of course, a metal fabrication shop can just use a bandsaw and a welder and get the job done in 5 minutes flat, and likely for a carton of beer. Just pop in in the morning, ask if they're willing to do the "cut and shut" job you've explained to us, and ask them what their favourite beer is. Somebody'll do it in their lunch break.
I'm always the one standing over my work swearing and banging shit around as the hack saw binds and squeals it's way through the cut. Then about half way though I get so frustrated I just go throw it on the bandsaw and walk away to actually be productive.
Miter/chop saw might even work if you've got one laying about and got the right blade for it.
These are the kinds of projects where one should buy some tools to have some new tools for the next project!
Drilling on rd tube with a hand drill, and getting both holes to be plum and in column is something I've watched many guys fuck up. Ideally you find a centering punch jig, so you can locate your holes better than squinting one eye and guessing.
Good excuse to go to Harbor Freight and pick up a cheap drill press. I scooped a full size one up from a machine company and haggled it down to $50 for the machine and $25 on new belts, I just had to pull the chuck and clean it up because someone had apparently drilled through a solid block of glue or something and gummed it all up.
I am thinking I might go with the bracket idea to lower the attachment point for the whole mount, as it'd keep me from fubaring the actual mount. I also forgot that my younger brother might have access to a CNC machine, so I'm going to ask him if I gave him money for materials and a sketch of what I needed if he could do this for me.
These brackets go on either side of the square tube that the Obutto mount originally attached to, with bolts holding them in place, and then the Obutto mount gets bolted further down. They almost work. The issue is one that was in the back of my mind when I was drawing these up-- since they're two separate pieces, when the Obutto mount gets bolted to them, they bow inward under tension from the bolt, and the stick mount ends up being a little unstable due to the give. So, I need to add a spacer of some sort to keep them rigid.
I'm thinking about doing a horizontal slat at the bottom of the brackets, and then one or two somewhere in the middle. The issue is that these brackets will be an inch apart when in place, so I'd only be able to get a proper fillet weld on one side at the bottom, and in the middle slats I think I'd only be able to tack at the edges. Any suggestions on this?
Stupid silly question: Is this something you could solve with a couple of jam nuts backed into each other and a fully threaded bolt? Or do the plates themselves need to be more stable?
You could also get 2 extra nuts per bolt along with some washers and put a nut on the inside as well, effectively using the bolt as its own spacer. But the pipe will be less of a pain in the ass to assembly and disassemble.
It's also possible that the flex you are feeling is actually the deflection of the plates from the load not the compression of you bolting them. Putting spacers will help with this some, because now you locking the 2 plates together. But if it doesn't, or even if it does and you just want a welded solution, you actually want your bracing pieces to be run vertically not horizontally.
Think of a ruler like you used in school(or take out a credit card if you want to try it). You can grab one end and and flex it easily. If you grab it in the middle(horizontal ribs), it's harder to bend the same distance. But have you ever tried to bend one edge on? Trying to make the 1" mark touch the 11" mark. You can't do it.
The easiest thing to do would be to add a center rib to whichever of the two plates is the one the the stick pieces actually mount to(basically making an I-beam with a loose top). If that isn't enough make the 2 brackets into box . Oversize the sides and have them be more like caps and it will be easier for you to weld.