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[US Foreign Policy] POTUS Ends SK Military Exercises in Exchange for a Handshake pg 87

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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-order-limiting-venezuelan-governments-ability-to-liquidate-assets/
    The White House announced that President Donald Trump had signed an executive order restricting the Venezuelan government's ability to liquidate assets for pennies on the dollar at the expense of the Venezuelan people.

    Senior administration officials said Trump's executive order would close another avenue for corruption by officials in the government, who have valued and sold off public assets in return for kickbacks. The officials said the order prohibits all transactions related to the purchase of any debt owed to the Venezuelan government by any U.S. person or anyone within the U.S.

    How do these sanctions square with America buying Venezuelan oil when the reserves and the refineries are owned by the State? I figure there has to be some punishment for Maduro going through with a fixed election but why not go whole hog like we did with Cuba decades ago?

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    Sicarii wrote: »
    Arent the Saudis mostly to blame for the current crisis in Yemen?
    They are not to blame for beginning the crisis and as NSDF pointed out are not its only players, but are they to blame for reducing much of the country to a cholera-wracked wasteland of destroyed towns and cities. So I would agree with "mostly," yeah.
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Here's Pomeo's Iran speech at the Heritige Foundation:
    https://www.heritage.org/defense/event/after-the-deal-new-iran-strategy
    (machine translated so not perfect)

    Here are the demands:
    So, what should it be? We must be begin to define what it is that we demand from Iran. First, Iran just declare to the IAE a full account of the prior military dimensions of its nuclear program and permanently and verifiably abandon such work in perpetuity. Second, Iran must stop enrichment and never pursue plutonium reprocessing. This includes closing its heavy water reactor. Third, Iran just also provide the IAE with unqualified access to all sites throughout the entire country. Iran must end its proliferation of ballistic missiles and halt further launching or development of nuclear capable missile systems. Iran must release all US citizens as well as citizens of our partners and allies, each of them detained on spurious charges. Iran must end support to Middle East terrorist groups, including Lebanese Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Iran must respect the sovereignty of the Iraqi government and permit the disarming, demobilization, and reintegration of Shia militias. Iran must also end its military support for the Houthi militia and work towards a peaceful, political settlement in Yemen. Iran must withdraw all forces under Iranian command throughout the entirety of Syria.

    Iran, too, must end support for the Taliban and other terrorists in Afghanistan and the region and cease harboring senior al Qaeda leaders. Iran, too, must end the IRG Qud Forces support for terrorists and militant partners around the world. And too, Iran must end its threatening behavior against its neighbors, many of whom are US allies. This certainly includes its threats to destroy Israel and its firing of missiles into Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. It also includes threats to international shipping and destructive cyber attacks.

    That list is pretty long, but if you take a look at it, these are 12 very basic requirements. The length of the list is simply a scope of the maligned behavior of Iran. We didn't create the list. They did.

    This isn't a list of demands that Iran is expected to agree to. No, they're not going to abandon Hezbollah. No, they're not going to abandon Assad, certainly not while US has bases in Syria. Both of which have been allies for near 40 years now.

    Others are very difficult to verify or enforce. Iran denies supporting the Houthis in Yemen, and even if it agreed to stop supporting them, how would anyone know if they did or not? And I've not even heard the charge before that they're harbouring al-queda guys.

    And the last one says it all, that it must end "threatening behavior" against its neighbours. This is so vague as to be meaningless. This list is justification for continued hostility to Iran, which isn't exactly a surprise.
    Agreed. The idea that Iran has to stop supporting all of the factions it is allied with - primarily Hezbollah, the Syrian state, and factions in Iraq - with while the Saudis, UAE, US, etc. keep pouring money and arms into their own allies is absurd. The list is a joke.

    Kaputa on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    It's also a joke in that they were following the last deal they signed and had that revoked from our end. So we're not a rational actor nor follower of any deal we offer.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    The USA didn't join the League of Nations. Iran did.

    The USA didn't uphold the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. Iran did.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    To what extent will this affect negotiations between North and South Korea? Having them still go forward without our involvement could be seen as a bit of a victory for North Korea.

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    IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know TexasRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    CNN reporter:

    This isn't very surprising given Trump has a hard time maintaining his attention span for five minutes and not getting into new fights every five seconds.

    But he made the coin and everything!

    FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
    Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
    Fuck Joe Manchin
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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    emnmnme wrote: »
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-order-limiting-venezuelan-governments-ability-to-liquidate-assets/
    The White House announced that President Donald Trump had signed an executive order restricting the Venezuelan government's ability to liquidate assets for pennies on the dollar at the expense of the Venezuelan people.

    Senior administration officials said Trump's executive order would close another avenue for corruption by officials in the government, who have valued and sold off public assets in return for kickbacks. The officials said the order prohibits all transactions related to the purchase of any debt owed to the Venezuelan government by any U.S. person or anyone within the U.S.

    How do these sanctions square with America buying Venezuelan oil when the reserves and the refineries are owned by the State? I figure there has to be some punishment for Maduro going through with a fixed election but why not go whole hog like we did with Cuba decades ago?

    A fixed election made by an illegal supra branch and hence also illegal, but hey, who's counting.

    Overall, Venezuela's oil production is on the gutter so now is about trying to sell off debt or assets (before they get distraint to pay for old debt and lost trials). Also, there's a lot of "This is Trump and the American Imperialism and blah blah", as usual, but the US is nowhere near the only country not recognizing that farce:
    Lima (Reuters) - The Lima group of Latin American countries plus Canada issued a statement on Monday saying it did not recognize the legitimacy of Venezuela’s presidential election, which was held the day before amid criticism over alleged irregularities.

    The Lima Group includes Peru, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Santa Lucia, Canada, Colombia, Honduras, Costa Rica and Guatemala.

    The statement said the countries would call their ambassadors back from Caracas for consultations and hold a meeting to coordinate a regional response to outflows of Venezuelans “who have been obligated to abandon their country”.

    TryCatcher on
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    Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the offense Iran is said to be committing actually is?

    Internal problems aside I’m not sure I’ve seen the administration actually define what their problem is.

    Before the deal, they didn't honor the deal and were seeking a nuclear weapon.

    Yes, I'm serious.

    Wild, and now then - not honoring the deal the US backed out of?

    Their current plan was for them to keep honoring the deal and Europe and other partners would not enforce sanctions.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    CNN reporter:

    This isn't very surprising given Trump has a hard time maintaining his attention span for five minutes and not getting into new fights every five seconds.

    Don't worry though, there'll be commemorative coins



    Jim Acosta is a reporter for CNN

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    fuckin wow that's shitty

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    I've never before seen an administration so desperate to celebrate before they've gotten to the starting line

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    so this all but guarantees it never happens, right? That'd fit right in with this timeline

    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Isn't this formally giving north Korea recognition as a separate state from south korea, something I thought we didn't do. I mean, they are, but like how there's no formal peace treaty and technical we are still I'm conflict.

    Or is this just bad info I've accumulated over the years?

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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    I am completely unsurprised that Trump and his admin are all over challenge coins. Ties into their (performative) love of the Military, 'celebrating' any number of events, things, people, places, etc, and allegedly a collectors item that is highly sought after.

    I'd love an Obama or Biden one. I hope one day piles of shitty trinkets like the one on this page are all melted down into something worth having. Maybe storm drain covers.

    At least this one isn't gaudily gold as some of the earlier ones we've seen.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    The associated press has an article up detailing the ways in which broidy set up billion dollar contracts, with huge payments to himself, with Saudi Arabia in order to push their anti-Qatar agenda within the White House. Of course he also failed to register as a foreign agent while he did so.

    So that's super.

    Summary in this slate article, with a link to the ap piece

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/top-trump-fundraiser-broidy-reportedly-secured-usd1-billion-in-contracts-from-saudi-arabia-and-uae-in-return-for-pushing-anti-qatar-policies-to-administration.html?

    Prohass on
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    So it seems clear to me that the Iran ultimatum is less something that the negotiators think they're going to get and more as an atempt to astroturf a cassus belli into existance since iran isn't co-operating with the us by re-initiating it's nuclear program.

    Which honestly makes it feel like this is less actual reality and more like watching someone try and manipulate the AI in a CK2 or eu4 into doing something it wants... badly.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    I kinda want to get my hands on one of those coins purely for the irony.

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    TravanTravan Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    At the risk of sounding superficial

    Have two goofier looking people ever shared space on a coin? Impressed whatever mint went so warts and all on something intended to be “commemorative”

    Travan on
    Gamertag- Travan7838


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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    CNN reporter:

    This isn't very surprising given Trump has a hard time maintaining his attention span for five minutes and not getting into new fights every five seconds.

    WHO COULD HAVE FORESEEN THIS HAPPENING?????

    Oh, everybody? Literally everybody? Ok, then.

    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    KetBra wrote: »
    I've never before seen an administration so desperate to celebrate before they've gotten to the starting line

    Judging from Facebook comments I've seen, this coin is made for Trump's marks base.

    Edit: for clarification I mean all the posts I see that seem to assume Trump singlehandedly negotiated peace and why can't LIEberals appreciate how awesome he is.

    DisruptedCapitalist on
    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    At this point it seems like they're sabotaging the talks on purpose

    they know they won't get a win out of it so its easier to make it never happen

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    At this point it seems like they're sabotaging the talks on purpose

    they know they won't get a win out of it so its easier to make it never happen

    It won't work. They are just as mockable for failing to even get to the table. Especially after they've played this up so much.

    The talks failing would actually be better for them.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    The talks failing AFTER such a jovial meeting between the korean leaders would just serve to show how Trump isn't able to illicit that same degree of diplomacy. It'd make him lose a lot of face, because the North was treating korean peace as if it were a ball on a tee, only for Trump to miss spectacularly.

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    Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    mRahmani wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Here's Pomeo's Iran speech at the Heritige Foundation:
    https://www.heritage.org/defense/event/after-the-deal-new-iran-strategy
    (machine translated so not perfect)

    Here are the demands:
    Iran, too, must end support for the Taliban and other terrorists in Afghanistan and the region and cease harboring senior al Qaeda leaders.

    Fuckin lol

    The Taliban and al-Qaeda consider Shia Muslims blasphemers. Iran is a Shia majority country. :rotate:

    The singularity of evil is the defining feature of the conspiracist's mindset. They all have to be in it together as part of an evil plot that is exactly what the conspiracist would do were he on the other side because otherwise the conspiracist would have to admit that it is possible for other people to disagree with him.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    The talks failing AFTER such a jovial meeting between the korean leaders would just serve to show how Trump isn't able to illicit that same degree of diplomacy. It'd make him lose a lot of face, because the North was treating korean peace as if it were a ball on a tee, only for Trump to miss spectacularly.

    That would only happen if North Korea jad things like strategic planning and a basic grasp of diplomacy though!

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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    Can't wait to buy the commemorative plate for when he declares himself emperor, jfc

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    QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    WaPo: Trump says Kim Jong Un ‘serious’ about nuclear talks, but suggests summit could fall through
    “We’re moving along. We’ll see what happens,” Trump told reporters at the White House, after welcoming South Korean President Moon Jae-in for a meeting. “If it doesn’t happen, maybe it will happen later.”

    Later Trump said: “It may not work out for June 12.”

    Shock.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    NotYouNotYou Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    Wasn't the US the one bullshitting about peace when both Bolton and Pence touted the "Libya Model" where we bomb their military and the leader is sodomized with a knife?

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    Maybe they're serious about making peace with South Korea but not the US. I'm not sure how likely such a possibility is, but consider:
    1. South Korea is not really concerned with further North Korean "nuclearization." As far as South Korea is concerned, North Korea is already nuclear; that they can't launch their nukes across the Pacific is irrelevant to South Korea. Furthermore, even without nuclear weapons, North Korea possesses a wide array of WMDs and conventional military forces that are more than enough to wreak devastation on South Korea.
    2. US security promises are not what they once were. Though Trump may only be a 4, or even 8, year president, South Korea has no guarantees as to who will come next. Also, Trump was elected, thus suggesting that the forces and perspectives that elected him reside not solely within him but within the US electorate, who may choose to replace Trump with another President with similar views.
    3. Chinese regional (economic) dominance may be inevitable, especially with the US turning inwards. If such dominance is inevitable, it may behoove smaller Asian nations to sign on early to reap the benefits of preferred status. Regardless, it may be worthwhile to hedge, as many Asian nations have already done.
    4. Yes, China will likely extract various concessions out of South Korea if South Korea were to join its sphere and rely on Chinese security promises to alleviate the threat of North Korean invasion. That being said, isn't Trump doing the exact same thing with tariffs and the US-South Korean free trade agreement? What's the difference, except that China arguably has more motivation to keep the peace in Korea than the US does?

    How likely is the possibility that China could actually peel the South Koreans out of the US sphere of influence by dangling the prospects of permanent peace on the Korean peninsula? I don't know. But I do know that it is definitely something China would like to do, and remember that the behaviours of nations are predicated on their (mis-)reading of other nations, so... I don't know. Even if Kim and/or Xi don't think it's seriously possible, at least testing the waters, with an extremely pro-unification South Korean president and ... well Trump, could very well be a sensible course of action in and of itself.

    hippofant on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    NotYou wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    Wasn't the US the one bullshitting about peace when both Bolton and Pence touted the "Libya Model" where we bomb their military and the leader is sodomized with a knife?

    Before Bolton came on, back in early march there was a belief Korea would become united and rejoin the normal international sphere. It was only recently when the obvious happened I thought?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    NotYou wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    Wasn't the US the one bullshitting about peace when both Bolton and Pence touted the "Libya Model" where we bomb their military and the leader is sodomized with a knife?

    Before Bolton came on, back in early march there was a belief Korea would become united and rejoin the normal international sphere. It was only recently when the obvious happened I thought?

    There was a bizarre zeitgeist that raced through the internet where everyone seemed to think this was the road to a unified Korea. What actually seems to have happened is Trump did what Trump does, but it was powered by South Korea doing whatever was necessary to get the US out of the mindset of "we're going to invade North Korea".

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Yglesias had been writing about that during all the excitement. Nothing Trump does re: governance ever seems to pan out so why would expect something this hard to?

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    Yglesias had been writing about that during all the excitement. Nothing Trump does re: governance ever seems to pan out so why would expect something this hard to?

    Because Trump likes authoritarian assholes like he envisions himself to be, and wants to be friends with them.

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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    He's just printing little participation medals for himself.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    Maybe they're serious about making peace with South Korea but not the US. I'm not sure how likely such a possibility is, but consider:
    1. South Korea is not really concerned with further North Korean "nuclearization." As far as South Korea is concerned, North Korea is already nuclear; that they can't launch their nukes across the Pacific is irrelevant to South Korea. Furthermore, even without nuclear weapons, North Korea possesses a wide array of WMDs and conventional military forces that are more than enough to wreak devastation on South Korea.
    2. US security promises are not what they once were. Though Trump may only be a 4, or even 8, year president, South Korea has no guarantees as to who will come next. Also, Trump was elected, thus suggesting that the forces and perspectives that elected him reside not solely within him but within the US electorate, who may choose to replace Trump with another President with similar views.
    3. Chinese regional (economic) dominance may be inevitable, especially with the US turning inwards. If such dominance is inevitable, it may behoove smaller Asian nations to sign on early to reap the benefits of preferred status. Regardless, it may be worthwhile to hedge, as many Asian nations have already done.
    4. Yes, China will likely extract various concessions out of South Korea if South Korea were to join its sphere and rely on Chinese security promises to alleviate the threat of North Korean invasion. That being said, isn't Trump doing the exact same thing with tariffs and the US-South Korean free trade agreement? What's the difference, except that China arguably has more motivation to keep the peace in Korea than the US does?

    How likely is the possibility that China could actually peel the South Koreans out of the US sphere of influence by dangling the prospects of permanent peace on the Korean peninsula? I don't know. But I do know that it is definitely something China would like to do, and remember that the behaviours of nations are predicated on their (mis-)reading of other nations, so... I don't know. Even if Kim and/or Xi don't think it's seriously possible, at least testing the waters, with an extremely pro-unification South Korean president and ... well Trump, could very well be a sensible course of action in and of itself.

    I think they are only serious about trying to get some relief. Their nuclear program is on hold anyway, might as well exploit the situation.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    Maybe they're serious about making peace with South Korea but not the US. I'm not sure how likely such a possibility is, but consider:
    1. South Korea is not really concerned with further North Korean "nuclearization." As far as South Korea is concerned, North Korea is already nuclear; that they can't launch their nukes across the Pacific is irrelevant to South Korea. Furthermore, even without nuclear weapons, North Korea possesses a wide array of WMDs and conventional military forces that are more than enough to wreak devastation on South Korea.
    2. US security promises are not what they once were. Though Trump may only be a 4, or even 8, year president, South Korea has no guarantees as to who will come next. Also, Trump was elected, thus suggesting that the forces and perspectives that elected him reside not solely within him but within the US electorate, who may choose to replace Trump with another President with similar views.
    3. Chinese regional (economic) dominance may be inevitable, especially with the US turning inwards. If such dominance is inevitable, it may behoove smaller Asian nations to sign on early to reap the benefits of preferred status. Regardless, it may be worthwhile to hedge, as many Asian nations have already done.
    4. Yes, China will likely extract various concessions out of South Korea if South Korea were to join its sphere and rely on Chinese security promises to alleviate the threat of North Korean invasion. That being said, isn't Trump doing the exact same thing with tariffs and the US-South Korean free trade agreement? What's the difference, except that China arguably has more motivation to keep the peace in Korea than the US does?

    How likely is the possibility that China could actually peel the South Koreans out of the US sphere of influence by dangling the prospects of permanent peace on the Korean peninsula? I don't know. But I do know that it is definitely something China would like to do, and remember that the behaviours of nations are predicated on their (mis-)reading of other nations, so... I don't know. Even if Kim and/or Xi don't think it's seriously possible, at least testing the waters, with an extremely pro-unification South Korean president and ... well Trump, could very well be a sensible course of action in and of itself.

    I think they are only serious about trying to get some relief. Their nuclear program is on hold anyway, might as well exploit the situation.

    I certainly think that's the simpler answer, and the Olympics and Moon and Trump all coincided to create an opportunity.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    Maybe they're serious about making peace with South Korea but not the US. I'm not sure how likely such a possibility is, but consider:
    1. South Korea is not really concerned with further North Korean "nuclearization." As far as South Korea is concerned, North Korea is already nuclear; that they can't launch their nukes across the Pacific is irrelevant to South Korea. Furthermore, even without nuclear weapons, North Korea possesses a wide array of WMDs and conventional military forces that are more than enough to wreak devastation on South Korea.
    2. US security promises are not what they once were. Though Trump may only be a 4, or even 8, year president, South Korea has no guarantees as to who will come next. Also, Trump was elected, thus suggesting that the forces and perspectives that elected him reside not solely within him but within the US electorate, who may choose to replace Trump with another President with similar views.
    3. Chinese regional (economic) dominance may be inevitable, especially with the US turning inwards. If such dominance is inevitable, it may behoove smaller Asian nations to sign on early to reap the benefits of preferred status. Regardless, it may be worthwhile to hedge, as many Asian nations have already done.
    4. Yes, China will likely extract various concessions out of South Korea if South Korea were to join its sphere and rely on Chinese security promises to alleviate the threat of North Korean invasion. That being said, isn't Trump doing the exact same thing with tariffs and the US-South Korean free trade agreement? What's the difference, except that China arguably has more motivation to keep the peace in Korea than the US does?

    How likely is the possibility that China could actually peel the South Koreans out of the US sphere of influence by dangling the prospects of permanent peace on the Korean peninsula? I don't know. But I do know that it is definitely something China would like to do, and remember that the behaviours of nations are predicated on their (mis-)reading of other nations, so... I don't know. Even if Kim and/or Xi don't think it's seriously possible, at least testing the waters, with an extremely pro-unification South Korean president and ... well Trump, could very well be a sensible course of action in and of itself.

    I think they are only serious about trying to get some relief. Their nuclear program is on hold anyway, might as well exploit the situation.

    I certainly think that's the simpler answer, and the Olympics and Moon and Trump all coincided to create an opportunity.

    Trump's crazy man theory only worked on SK in that it made them nervous enough to reach out to NK. But NK still has no real interest in giving up their program which was the obvious thing all along because why would the NK leadership ever want to put themselves in a situation where they are in danger or losing power.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    I think Trump had less an effect on South Korea electing someone like Moon than Park's downfall.

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    [Tycho?][Tycho?] As elusive as doubt Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    NotYou wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm sad that North Korea was apparently bullshitting about any kind of peace, but also kind of reassured that yes our idiot in chief hadn't suddenly been successful by being a huge asshole.

    Wasn't the US the one bullshitting about peace when both Bolton and Pence touted the "Libya Model" where we bomb their military and the leader is sodomized with a knife?

    Before Bolton came on, back in early march there was a belief Korea would become united and rejoin the normal international sphere. It was only recently when the obvious happened I thought?

    For some reason people thought that the north agreeing to talks meant that Peace in our Time was a fait accompli. I saw this on my facebook feed, a professor of philosophy of all things was saying this event would be remembered for hundreds of years. I suggested he should maybe wait to see how it really played out, ha.

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