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[Hearthstone] THIS THREAD IS DEAD! POST IN THE NEW ONE!

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Posts

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    HCT summer
    our collective boy hearthstone dog dog drops 0-3 to turna :(

  • DibbyDibby Let us grieve existence, together Registered User regular
    HCT summer
    our collective boy hearthstone dog dog drops 0-3 to turna :(
    WHY DID I PICK HIM AGAIN??? CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME???

    FUCK

    N90l7EJ.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    3DS Friend Code: 0061-0917-2400
    BetsuniElvenshaeTeriferin
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    I would like to complain about yet again getting zero packs from these tournaments.

    But I feel like that might be kinda shitty given I picked a player who's probably feeling way worse than I do about it.

    steam_sig.png
  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    HCT summer
    our collective boy hearthstone dog dog drops 0-3 to turna :(
    WHY DID I PICK HIM AGAIN??? CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME???

    FUCK
    Everyone else was doing it.

    Later you can come join us for this bridge we're going to jump off of.

    ThawmusBetsuniElvenshaeKoopahTroopah
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    we don't pick because of the packs, we pick because he's our boy

    The Escape GoatSaldonasKoopahTroopahMMMiglwt1973Tynnan
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    I feel like too much consistency is the biggest problem in Hearthstone right now, and is a big part of why the meta feels so stale. Draw order will never be completely eliminated as a randomness factor, and it's essentially the only common major random factor in the current meta. Consider the top decks:

    Odd Paladin has no random effects. Token Druid has one random effect (Oaken Summons bringing either an Ironwood Golem or a Violet Teacher). Odd Rogue has Blink Fox and Vicious Fledgling, and some versions of the deck are cutting those for cards like Worgan Infiltrator, Void Ripper, and King Mukla, removing random factors. Even Warlock has the Lich King. Miracle Rogue has no random effects.

    The top decks that have notable random effects are Shudderwock Shaman (Shudderwock, Far Sight, Healing Rain, Lightning Storm, Mind Control Tech, Volcano, Hagatha), Even Shaman (hero power, Hagatha, The Lich King, Knife Juggler, Earthen Might), Recruit Hunter (Stitched Tracker, Deathstalker Rexxar, Seeping Oozeling, Silver Vanguard, The Lich King, Kathrena Winterwisp), and Big Spell Mage (Raven Familiar, Stonehill Defender, Arcane Keysmith, Witchwood Piper, Dragon's Fury, and Sindragosa). And although those decks have random effects, the randomness is greatly mitigated by deck design. For example, yes, Even Shaman's hero power is random in that it's any one of four totems, but it's still good consistency because it effectively guarantees that the Shaman will hit its mana curve. Raven Familiar and Dragon's Fury are technically random, but very likely to work out in a consistent manner due to how the deck is built. Shudderwock decks are built around minimizing the downsides of the RNG effects.

    What it boils down to is that I feel like every significant meta deck right now is able to consistently put its game plan into effect. There are minimal "will they hit the random roll they need to hit" moments beyond draw order. This leads to two major problems. Firstly, since decks are more consistent, match-ups become more polarized. For example, Odd Paladin will beat Odd Rogue and Recruit Hunter and Shudderwock Shaman about 2/3 of the time. Recruit Hunter loses to Even Shaman, Even Warlock loses to Miracle Rogue, Big Spell Mage loses to Shudderwock Shaman, etc. There are a lot of 66/33 and 60/40 matchups in this meta.

    The second problem is a bit more of a philosophical problem, and won't be seen as a problem to everyone. But. in essence: random effects keep things fresh. If you play Odd Paladin vs. Shudderwock Shaman, no one is going to see anything that they haven't seen before. There is decision making and skill, sure. But there's nothing that will happen in that game to differentiate it from the other fifty Odd Paladin vs. Shudderwock Shaman games you've seen in the current meta. At some level, yes, we don't want to play out clown fiestas where pre-nerf Yogg decides everything by chucking random Pyroblasts everywhere every game. But sometimes Toki into Paletress into Ragnaros is pretty damn awesome, and even when you're on the losing end of it, it's something different and exciting. It’s one thing to lose a 66/33 matchup, but losing it in the exact same way over and over again is really unfun.

    If you look at the history of Hearthstone, the most hated decks have tended to be the most consistent. Aggro Shaman. Pirate Warrior. Jade Druid as it was immediately after KFT was released. Even Paladin, and to a lesser extent Cube Warlock. Decks that are able to consistently hit their curve and game plan every single game are boring to play against. As things stand currently, we have a lot of decks with lower power levels than those top meta decks of seasons past, but with similar degrees of consistency. The result is that very little appears broken or in need of a nerf, but the meta itself feels stale and boring.

    Shadowhope on
    Dinosaurs were made up by the CIA to discourage time travel.
    3clipseDibbyBetsuni
  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    I feel more like its a problem where T1 = make a deck your that oppressively shuts down your opponent so hard that it dosent even matter what deck they are playing because they wont be able to react to what youre doing properly.

    So you have hadronox and frost lich jaina and shudderwock where your whole deck is tuned to abusing this one big card or effect so that whoever gets their engine up and running first basically wins, and it dosent matter what their opponent tries to do after that.

    3clipseforty
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    Have we actually come full circle and are complaining that Hearthstone doesn't have enough RNG? Nobody tell @kime!

    Dibby wrote: »
    yeah but it's a really happenin' wake with chips and punch
    kimeBetsuniElvenshaeGvzbgulLucedesDibbyThe JudgeGoodKingJayIIIKoopahTroopahMMMig
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    yeah most games just boil down to who can do their broken thing faster

    we need dirty rat-san

    3clipse
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    .
    HCT summer
    our collective boy hearthstone dog dog drops 0-3 to turna :(
    Poor Dog, but on the other hand, WHOO HOO! I DIDN'T PICK HIM AND HE FAILED ANYWAY!

    I wonder how my pick is doing...

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    I think we need to stop having random effects that depend on the contents of your deck to work.

    Recruit a 4 cost minion! This will be totally raaaaandom, and people definitely won't have 2 copies of a broken piece of shit and no other 4 cost cards!

    Recruit a 1, 2, and 3 attack minion! Well this will be really cool and totally won't summon 5 minions to the board with 20+/20+ worth of stats every time at all!

    Oh hey check this out, it's a minion that repeats all your battlecries! So it will do all sorts of zany stuff and definitely not a specific recipe of uninterruptible effects that ensure your victory every time you manage to click on the card and successfully push it out onto the board!

    steam_sig.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    I feel like too much consistency is the biggest problem in Hearthstone right now, and is a big part of why the meta feels so stale. Draw order will never be completely eliminated as a randomness factor, and it's essentially the only common major random factor in the current meta. Consider the top decks:

    Odd Paladin has no random effects.
    I don't know if I'm being overly nitpicky or if we're going with different definitions of random, but plenty of Odd Paladins run Maul and Stonehill, which definitely add some random to the proceedings.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    ThawmusThe Escape GoatBedlam
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    I feel like too much consistency is the biggest problem in Hearthstone right now, and is a big part of why the meta feels so stale. Draw order will never be completely eliminated as a randomness factor, and it's essentially the only common major random factor in the current meta. Consider the top decks:

    Odd Paladin has no random effects.
    I don't know if I'm being overly nitpicky or if we're going with different definitions of random, but plenty of Odd Paladins run Maul and Stonehill, which definitely add some random to the proceedings.

    No but I think those are good examples of where random is just fine. Discover and the Unidentified cards are some of my favorite effects.

    steam_sig.png
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    I'm still so angry they printed Maul and I don't even play this anymore.

    Dibby wrote: »
    yeah but it's a really happenin' wake with chips and punch
    3clipse
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I think we need to stop having random effects that depend on the contents of your deck to work.

    Recruit a 4 cost minion! This will be totally raaaaandom, and people definitely won't have 2 copies of a broken piece of shit and no other 4 cost cards!

    Recruit a 1, 2, and 3 attack minion! Well this will be really cool and totally won't summon 5 minions to the board with 20+/20+ worth of stats every time at all!

    Oh hey check this out, it's a minion that repeats all your battlecries! So it will do all sorts of zany stuff and definitely not a specific recipe of uninterruptible effects that ensure your victory every time you manage to click on the card and successfully push it out onto the board!
    I'm convinced when Blizzard designed Lackey, they were thinking about how awesome it would be to pull out a Succubus or Pit Lord without those battlecry penalties.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    ThawmusYiliasMNC DoverElvenshaeDibby
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I think we need to stop having random effects that depend on the contents of your deck to work.

    Recruit a 4 cost minion! This will be totally raaaaandom, and people definitely won't have 2 copies of a broken piece of shit and no other 4 cost cards!

    Recruit a 1, 2, and 3 attack minion! Well this will be really cool and totally won't summon 5 minions to the board with 20+/20+ worth of stats every time at all!

    Oh hey check this out, it's a minion that repeats all your battlecries! So it will do all sorts of zany stuff and definitely not a specific recipe of uninterruptible effects that ensure your victory every time you manage to click on the card and successfully push it out onto the board!
    I'm convinced when Blizzard designed Lackey, they were thinking about how awesome it would be to pull out a Succubus or Pit Lord without those battlecry penalties.

    For 5 mana I'm actually pretty confident that they had Doomguard in mind. They just thought that was the end of that combo chain.

    steam_sig.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    .
    HCT summer
    our collective boy hearthstone dog dog drops 0-3 to turna :(
    Poor Dog, but on the other hand, WHOO HOO! I DIDN'T PICK HIM AND HE FAILED ANYWAY!

    I wonder how my pick is doing...
    Uh oh, he apparently faces the guy that annihilated Dog soon...

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I just think they imagined a deck with a lot of demons, making lackey a value play but a risky one. They weren’t thinking about a warlock deck that only had four (or even two) high-value demons

    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
    Elvenshaeforty
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    I just think they imagined a deck with a lot of demons, making lackey a value play but a risky one. They weren’t thinking about a warlock deck that only had four (or even two) high-value demons

    My theory is they did think of the few-demons strategy, but probably thought running less demons was a downside.

    Dibby wrote: »
    yeah but it's a really happenin' wake with chips and punch
    ElvenshaefortyDibby3clipse
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Same problem as Spiteful Summoner.

    ThawmusDibby3clipse
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Same problem as Spiteful Summoner.

    Well, to be fair Spiteful's clause actually is a downside. It's just powerful enough to outweigh it, alongside a high number of quality utility minions.

    Dibby wrote: »
    yeah but it's a really happenin' wake with chips and punch
    forty
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    It's all good, now we can demand Dog show us a 6 pack.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
    DehumanizedShadowhopeDibbyThe Escape Goat3clipsefortyKoopahTroopah
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Twitch Page
    Hearthstone: mncdover#1994
    Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
    3DS: 1934-0659-5183
    Steam ID
    DibbyGvzbgulElvenshaeemnmnmeThe Judge
  • DibbyDibby Let us grieve existence, together Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »

    The fastest fucking snap concede ever rofl holy shit

    N90l7EJ.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    3DS Friend Code: 0061-0917-2400
    MNC Dover
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Replays don't show deliberation time.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII Registered User regular
    Have we actually come full circle and are complaining that Hearthstone doesn't have enough RNG? Nobody tell @kime!

    There does not seem to be much rng in the top decks right now and the game is boring as shit.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
    Shadowhope3clipse
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Have we actually come full circle and are complaining that Hearthstone doesn't have enough RNG? Nobody tell @kime!

    There does not seem to be much rng in the top decks right now and the game is boring as shit.

    But these aren't necessarily related!

    PA HotS Group
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
    fortyThe Escape Goat
  • DibbyDibby Let us grieve existence, together Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Yilias wrote: »
    Replays don't show deliberation time.

    True, but considering it was on Dover's turn, and he had only played one card and had 7 mana remaining still, it seems likely to me that it was almost instant.

    Dibby on
    N90l7EJ.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    3DS Friend Code: 0061-0917-2400
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Have we actually come full circle and are complaining that Hearthstone doesn't have enough RNG? Nobody tell @kime!

    There does not seem to be much rng in the top decks right now and the game is boring as shit.

    What you top deck doesn't really matter when your whole deck is super greedy which is where the current state of the game is

    PSN SeGaTai
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Hell, I am still rank 14 and the month is almost over. Recommend a good Taunt Druid deck so I can at least hit 10 this week.

    ###
    # Class: Druid
    # Format: Standard
    # Year of the Raven
    #
    # 2x (1) Lesser Jasper Spellstone
    # 2x (1) Naturalize
    # 2x (2) Wild Growth
    # 1x (3) Tar Creeper
    # 2x (3) Witching Hour
    # 2x (4) Branching Paths
    # 2x (4) Ironwood Golem
    # 2x (4) Oaken Summons
    # 2x (4) Swipe
    # 2x (5) Carnivorous Cube
    # 2x (5) Nourish
    # 2x (8) Primordial Drake
    # 1x (8) The Lich King
    # 2x (9) Dragonhatcher
    # 1x (9) Hadronox
    # 1x (9) Master Oakheart
    # 2x (9) Sleepy Dragon
    #
    AAECAZICBMrDAsLOAq/TAvHqAg1AX+kB5AjJxwKU0gKY0gKe0gLm0wKL4QKE5gLd6wKN8AIA

    answers to some a couple specific tech choices you might be interested in, phrased in a Q&A format:

    1. why no Ultimate Infestation? over 1/3 of your deck costs more than 5 mana; UI is just an invitation to hand size issues when you don't have things like arcane tyrants in the list to help you drop your hand quickly. nourish, wild growth, and branching paths all provide plenty of draw to get to your big bois
    2. why only one Tar Creeper as a 1-attack minion? if oakheart doesn't pull a 1 attack minion, it's whatever. the other 29 cards in the deck are better than a second tar creeper

    how to play deck:
    mulligan hard for ramp
    oakheart

    I went from rank 15 to rank 10 tonight using your OP deck. Thanks!

    MNC DoverDehumanized
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    Yilias wrote: »
    Replays don't show deliberation time.

    True, but considering it was on Dover's turn, and he had only played one card and had 7 mana remaining still, it seems likely to me that it was almost instant.

    It was instant as fuck. Didn’t even get a screenshot.

    Twitch Page
    Hearthstone: mncdover#1994
    Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
    3DS: 1934-0659-5183
    Steam ID
    DibbyThe JudgekimeYilias
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    As soon as I saw you got Death Grip and that the game ended next turn, I knew exactly what was going to happen.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    ElvenshaeDibbyMNC Dover
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    Resource cheating power creep is a genie that card game historically have a very hard time putting back in the bottle, and Hearthstone only plays with fire by making a game designed to have zero interaction on your opponent's turn. I don't think we're turning this ship around.

    zxQY2JJ.jpg
    Dibby3clipseThawmus
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    Resource cheating power creep is a genie that card game historically have a very hard time putting back in the bottle, and Hearthstone only plays with fire by making a game designed to have zero interaction on your opponent's turn. I don't think we're turning this ship around.

    It's even harder to turn around when you've slammed your foot on the gas.

    Wait, how do these metaphors work again?

  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    Zapp brannigan checkmate dot gif

    zxQY2JJ.jpg
  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    Wait, how do these metaphors work again?
    Sometimes you have a 10 in your deck but you know your opponent only has a 3 in hand.

    So you play your meta 4.

    Elvenshae3clipse
  • DibbyDibby Let us grieve existence, together Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Resource cheating power creep is a genie that card game historically have a very hard time putting back in the bottle, and Hearthstone only plays with fire by making a game designed to have zero interaction on your opponent's turn. I don't think we're turning this ship around.

    so far each standard year has operated on the following terms:

    expac 1 - wowee lookit that rotation! also hey, some new cards! they're gonna be of varying quality but there's some good ones in there, including good neutrals. shit's fresh af y'all
    (i think old gods was like this at first but the nerfs made it worse? un'goro was like this basically day 1. WW only hit this after the nerfs, otherwise it was simply Mammoth Expac 3 Redux at first. it's still suffering from KNC tbh though)

    expac 2 - here's some powercreep! some powerful cards, nothing too crazy but some Good Shit
    (in the case of karazhan, there were a few really good cards but otherwise everything remained exxxactly the same and only served to strengthen already good decks. KFT put in a LOT of new good cards, DKs were probably too powerful.)

    expac 3 - FUCK IT. FUCK EVERYTHING. Y'ALL WANT SOME POWERCREEP? HAVE SUM FUCKIN' POWERCREEP. WE'RE FLYING OFF THE HANDLES. GOING OFF THE RAILS. OVER HERE AT TEAM 5 WE'RE LOOSE CANNONS. WE DON'T GIVE A FUCK. WE'RE GONNA FUCK SHIT UP. WE'RE GONNA FUCK YOU UP. YOU'RE GONNA HATE THIS SHIT.
    (MSoG and KNC. no explanation needed.)

    i really really hope they learn their lesson and Break The Cycle

    Dibby on
    N90l7EJ.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    3DS Friend Code: 0061-0917-2400
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    I don't think I've ever disliked a meta enough to not play. My two favorites archetypes are hyper aggro and combo though, it's hard not to have one end of that spectrum be viable.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Can we just have this event all the time? These rewards are stellar in comparison. They don't have to be high yield numbers, just give us dust as well as gold for every other quest all the time.

    ?username=KoopahTroopah&theme=light

    Steam - Battle.net - Koopah089 - PSN/Xbox - 1639-6388-9968/KoopahTroopah - Switch
    BetsuniMNC DoverThe JudgeDibbyenvoy1ElvenshaefortyThawmuslwt1973GoodKingJayIII
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    We can not, because they do not want you to have these rewards all the time.

    zxQY2JJ.jpg
    3clipseYilias
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