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Penny Arcade - Comic - Magicians, Part Two

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited May 14 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - Comic - Magicians, Part Two

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here


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Posts

  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    You'd think with all his other occult fetishes, Tycho would be more open to a mana screw.

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  • SadgasmSadgasm Deluded doodler A cold placeRegistered User regular
    I have never played Magic, and I dont know the rules, and I think I'd still make a better deck than Gabe

  • flamebroiledchickenflamebroiledchicken Registered User regular
    But lands had some of the dopest art! Especially the full-card lands from the parody sets.

    But yes, this was me when I played Magic. Intentionally included shitty cards in my deck just because they had cool art. In fact, I stopped playing around the time they started getting more serious about standardizing their style, and the art became less artsy and more generic.

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    I assume basic lands probably have the greatest amount of variations in their artwork throughout MTG's lifespan.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Agreed, I think this strip falls apart if you acknowledge just how many sets of Magic there are. There's probably 100s of variations of an Island, ditto for the rest of the lands. That's before getting into artifact lands, and special lands that come in tapped as multiple variations, etc.

    However, it is hilarious that Gabe would ignore the lands from a single set because they're all the same (art) card. I bet he would make a singleton deck just to keep from having dupe art.

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  • lawragatajarlawragatajar Registered User regular
    Back when I played the Pokemon card game, I remember seeing a number of kids with similar issues. They didn't have a deck; they had a bunch of cards they liked and almost no energy cards. Sometimes they just took a random set of 60 cards from their collection, because they had no understanding on how to play the game. As an adult, I tried to steer them towards a somewhat functional deck, but a lot kids didn't care to listen and then would complain they were losing. The most disheartening for me was a kid who was open to my help and I was able to put together a functioning deck for him. His father even thanked me for taking the time to help. The next time I saw the kid, all this cards were mixed up in his collection and we were back to square one.

  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    Back when I played the Pokemon card game, I remember seeing a number of kids with similar issues. They didn't have a deck; they had a bunch of cards they liked and almost no energy cards. Sometimes they just took a random set of 60 cards from their collection, because they had no understanding on how to play the game. As an adult, I tried to steer them towards a somewhat functional deck, but a lot kids didn't care to listen and then would complain they were losing. The most disheartening for me was a kid who was open to my help and I was able to put together a functioning deck for him. His father even thanked me for taking the time to help. The next time I saw the kid, all this cards were mixed up in his collection and we were back to square one.

    you know i feel like games like hearthstone really help kids with that problem, no mana or energy cards to fit into the deck, you can just put together whatever shitty combination of cards you want and play away

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Hearthstone tried to fix the "mana screwed" problem by just generating your resources turn by turn.

    It's an ok system. But I don't think "mana screwed" needed to be fixed. It's a part of the game. That's part of what makes MTG unique, and it's a good system. You know it's a good system because nearly every TCG that has come out in the last 20 years has copied (with minor alterations) The MTG formula. It's a formula that works, and getting lands out on the table is a part of the deckbuilding aspect of the game.

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    I mean, mechanics like lands are just bad game design nowadays. They aren't interesting to draw. There's no interesting situations that come from drawing too many of them or not enough of them so you can't actually *play* the game.

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  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    It kind of depends on the deck. Some have a lot more synergy with lands and can do extra things with them, then others actively want to limit the amount of lands drawn by using fetch lands and the like. Also there is definitely a whole market for getting the right artwork for a given card if it has been printed in multiple sets. Me and my friends got into some really heated arguments about which art was the best for a given card. Then there were the people who just played with a mish mash of whichever copies they could get, and those people are heathens.

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    plus you can't make "Oops All Spells!" in Hearthstone

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    So it turns out Gabe letting little Gabe win was indistinguishable from him playing for real.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    I can appreciate the appeal in having an aesthetically-pleasing deck

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  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    Hearthstone is Magic For Little Babies

    Lands are absolutely a valid element of strategy in deck construction and play.
    Armageddon decks for example were my favorite. Plus so many lands have other abilities. Or other cards that affect lands, turn them into creatures, etc.
    Lands in MTG are far far more than "drop, tap, gain 1 mana".

  • Wesley FoxxWesley Foxx Registered User regular
    Lands are indeed some of the coolest art in the game, one of the most versatile card types... aaaand also some of the most expensive cards you're going to find, because they're the most universally useful. The oldschool no-downside dual type lands are all on the order of +$250 per card for the non-tournament-legal promo variants because of the insane in-game value of being able to have a land come into play untapped with no drawbacks that can tap for either color you need and can be searched up by anything that looks for the basic land types it has.
    But lands had some of the dopest art! Especially the full-card lands from the parody sets.

    But yes, this was me when I played Magic. Intentionally included shitty cards in my deck just because they had cool art. In fact, I stopped playing around the time they started getting more serious about standardizing their style, and the art became less artsy and more generic.

    Have you seen the card art for Dominaria though?
    Danitha_Capashen.jpg
    tumblr_p77bweSjOb1qia2dho1_1280.jpg

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Holy crap I need Dominaria based on that card art.

    Inject that shit right into my veins.

    Dudes, Lucas is about to go hard into MTG.

  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited May 14
    KalTorak wrote: »
    plus you can't make "Oops All Spells!" in Hearthstone

    Hunter has a pretty cheap spells-only deck that works on standard ladder right now actually.

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  • NicodbNicodb Registered User new member
    edited May 14
    Being a long time magic player, this comic made me chuckle. When my son wanted to learn to play the game, he made a no land deck exactly because of the same reasons. He didnot like the monotony of the lands. Wich was understandable, because he only had a bunch of the same set. That opinion quickly changed when he got his hands on my collection and filled up with full arts and foils. It took me a long time to get those back :-)

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    plus you can't make "Oops All Spells!" in Hearthstone

    Hunter very specifically has a weapon that only works if you only have spells in your deck - and it's actually a surprisingly viable build.

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  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    You know it's a good system because nearly every TCG that has come out in the last 20 years has copied (with minor alterations) The MTG formula.

    You're going to have to be a lot more specific about what "good" means in this context. I don't know much about Magic, but this statement only seems to have any internal logic if by "good" you mean "financially successful business model."

    H3Knuckles
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    They don't call it cardboard crack for nothing. It might not be the most elegant of designs, but I'll be damned if it isn't the closest thing to what people want. There's a reason it's popular.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    I mean, mechanics like lands are just bad game design nowadays. They aren't interesting to draw. There's no interesting situations that come from drawing too many of them or not enough of them so you can't actually *play* the game.

    They have a much bigger impact in the deck building aspect than the in play aspect. I'd enjoy more non-basic lands that can have secondary effects but that too has its own issues such as you'd see them pop a lot repeatedly because all decks need mana generation.

    But their use allowed for things like doing multi-colored decks, trading in some reliability for a bigger card pool. And the colored mana tied to lands allowed for more out there formats like Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander which remains the most fun I've had with a CCG. The knock-on effects of the mechanic are many but since they're mostly in the deck building aspect they're not as significant for more competitive game styles that favor adapting decks others have collaboratively honed.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • SunrizeSunrize Registered User regular
    edited May 14
    PMAvers wrote: »
    I mean, mechanics like lands are just bad game design nowadays. They aren't interesting to draw. There's no interesting situations that come from drawing too many of them or not enough of them so you can't actually *play* the game.

    They have a much bigger impact in the deck building aspect than the in play aspect. I'd enjoy more non-basic lands that can have secondary effects but that too has its own issues such as you'd see them pop a lot repeatedly because all decks need mana generation.

    But their use allowed for things like doing multi-colored decks, trading in some reliability for a bigger card pool. And the colored mana tied to lands allowed for more out there formats like Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander which remains the most fun I've had with a CCG. The knock-on effects of the mechanic are many but since they're mostly in the deck building aspect they're not as significant for more competitive game styles that favor adapting decks others have collaboratively honed.

    To build on this, every CCG needs a mechanic that keeps all the decks from being exactly the same. This is really problematic when you have generic resources (like Hearthstone) instead of flavored resources, like Magic. Hearthstone addresses this with classes, but even with that, there is usually only one deck for each class that is competitive, and frequently some classes are just out of luck. By making it so that you had to include your resource cards in the deck, Magic opened up the idea that there were different ratios of cards--and card power levels--that could be competitive.

    The old Star Wars game did this by giving each card a "Force Value" or something like that, where really weak cards had a high force value, and vice versa. Instead of rolling a die, you'd flip over a card and get the force value. So if you had all Tusken Raiders, your "random" dice rolls would be all 10, if you had all Darth Vaders and Emperors, your "random" rolls would be all 1.

    Edit: Pretty embarrassed I can't spell Star Wars right on the first try...

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    The original World of Warcraft CCG that was in physical/print form had lands cards in the form of quest cards. I liked that system too. I liked original WoW TGC way more than I like Hearthstone.

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  • JackJack Registered User regular
    In the time that I collected Magic cards I spent far, far more time sorting my cards and looking at the cool art than I did actually playing the game.

    H3Knuckles
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited May 14
    Donnicton wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    plus you can't make "Oops All Spells!" in Hearthstone

    Hunter very specifically has a weapon that only works if you only have spells in your deck - and it's actually a surprisingly viable build.

    guys, "all spells" doesn't mean "all spells, no minions/creatures"

    it means all spells, no lands

    KalTorak on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Holy crap I need Dominaria based on that card art.

    Inject that shit right into my veins.

    Dudes, Lucas is about to go hard into MTG.

    they really went all-out with fantastic art in Dominaria
    Karns-Temporal-Sundering-Dominaria-MtG-Art.jpg
    Jhoira.jpg
    ib4qlrf5mqp01.jpg
    mtg__on_serra_s_wings_by_algenpfleger-dc96ftd.jpg
    c4rd4r7_EwISfj8hZP.jpg
    113.jpg?1524791102

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  • MarkD1159MarkD1159 Registered User regular
    Just build a red burn deck. Fifty percent of the time it works all the time. :)

    Moridin889
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Mmm, that's some good art. Hope they do a big art/lore book for Dominaria like they've been doing for other planes recently.

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  • GeorgeVGeorgeV Registered User new member
    If he really doesn't want lands, there's always manaless Dredge as an option I guess.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Are the angel in that picture and the guy with the stained glass wings behind him both a part of the white deck?

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited May 15
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Are the angel in that picture and the guy with the stained glass wings behind him both a part of the white deck?

    if you're talking about the preconstructed planeswalker decks (the Teferi one is blue/white), it looks like they aren't part of it. The angel is Shalai, Voice of Plenty and the stained glass wings pic is On Serra's Wings. The knight from Wesley's post is Danitha Capashen, Paragon.

    KalTorak on
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited May 15
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Karns-Temporal-Sundering-Dominaria-MtG-Art.jpg

    Wait, is that Karn? Wasn't Karn kind of dead from a sudden case of Oh God Not The Fucking Phyrexians Again?

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    I haven't been following the story (Karn's Mirrodin exploits are from during my magic-break, last time I saw him he was being all mopey on the Weatherlight), but needless to say, he's back, and with pants

    1.jpg?1524789999

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Man, when it comes to lore, I don't know anything at all about MTG. Back in my day, MTG didn't even have lore.

    But seriously, this MTG rabbit hole goes deep. You know what I've been doing today? Looking at set lists for all the sets currently included in Standard format.

    Did you guys know there's an Egyptian themed set from a while ago? With anubis's and shit? Like omg you guys. I need to just give WotC all my money right now.

    H3Knuckles
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Man, when it comes to lore, I don't know anything at all about MTG. Back in my day, MTG didn't even have lore.

    But seriously, this MTG rabbit hole goes deep. You know what I've been doing today? Looking at set lists for all the sets currently included in Standard format.

    Did you guys know there's an Egyptian themed set from a while ago? With anubis's and shit? Like omg you guys. I need to just give WotC all my money right now.

    A while ago? That was last year. :-P

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  • YoungFreyYoungFrey Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Man, when it comes to lore, I don't know anything at all about MTG. Back in my day, MTG didn't even have lore.

    But seriously, this MTG rabbit hole goes deep. You know what I've been doing today? Looking at set lists for all the sets currently included in Standard format.

    Did you guys know there's an Egyptian themed set from a while ago? With anubis's and shit? Like omg you guys. I need to just give WotC all my money right now.

    Did you hear about the Meso-American Pirate & Dinosaur set? Steampunk India? There was also a Greek Mythology set from a few years back if those gods are more to your taste.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    The powerlevels and mechanics have been a little spiky, but in terms of setting and production design they’ve been killing it in recent years.

  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    I haven't been following the story (Karn's Mirrodin exploits are from during my magic-break, last time I saw him he was being all mopey on the Weatherlight), but needless to say, he's back, and with pants

    1.jpg?1524789999

    The fuck you mean "Scion of Urza". Urza was a wanker! Like half of everything that went wrong in Magic was explicitly his fault! Dude's basically Fëanor levels of fuckup! You don't have to keep your deadbeat dad's name, Karn!

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