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[Wizard of Legend] I want to like this so much more!
dennis
aka bingleyRegistered User regular
aka bingleyRegistered User regular
Anyone else playing this? I have been after seeing Josh on stream, and I keep coming back to it despite having some complaints. There's not exactly the complaints that everyone seems to have about not enough different worlds and monsters. I just feel like there's so little progression between runs, and for me progression is important in roguelikes. I know that's not everyone (probably not even the majority of roguelike players), though.
One of my favorite roguelikes was Rogue Legacy. I just felt like almost every run was about something bigger than that run. Even with a bad run, I was still doing stuff. I recently played Dungreed and even it had XP building towards unlocking new skills. With WoL, all I really seem to be doing is collecting some gems so I can try a different set of robe/spells/relic. But really, there's so many of them that you could probably just find four spells and one item you liked and do just as well for the entire rest of the game. Ditto with the robe.
I just feel like it needs something more. But what is there is so nicely done that I can't just cast it aside and move on.
One of my favorite roguelikes was Rogue Legacy. I just felt like almost every run was about something bigger than that run. Even with a bad run, I was still doing stuff. I recently played Dungreed and even it had XP building towards unlocking new skills. With WoL, all I really seem to be doing is collecting some gems so I can try a different set of robe/spells/relic. But really, there's so many of them that you could probably just find four spells and one item you liked and do just as well for the entire rest of the game. Ditto with the robe.
I just feel like it needs something more. But what is there is so nicely done that I can't just cast it aside and move on.
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I think the gameplay really does carry this game. Progression comes in unlocking all the arcana and having enough gems to give you the gold / robe upgrade advantage. I feel that the starting 4 arcana you get to choose really influences each run. The arcanas are well done.
Relics and the system of how they are unlocked is probably the worst thing in game that I don't agree with. I've managed to game the system and not unlock the shitty relics, so that I almost always have a chance at [Vampire's Eyeglasses] + [Dark Katana]. With BoI, for example, items fundamentally change the way you play the character. In this game, I feel that the arcana fills that role and regular relics are more of a status up more than forcing a gameplay change.
There's definitely a lot of room to grow but the base game is decent. If I consider the original release of Binding of Isaac as the standard, this game is definitely missing about 2 stages worth of gameplay. Some thoughts for future updates: 1) Tweak the shop RNG so that you won't get shitty Red shop merchants on Stage 1. Pinata, Cursed Merchant, Tailor and maybe the Cardist seem to be the only "good" ones for stage 1. 2) Post-game progression essentially equates to beating the game multiple times to collect all the chaos arcana. Maybe throw in some additional "chaos" enemies and/or post-game relics / cursed relics. 3) Some post-hit invincibility frames might be nice. Getting juggled by enemies feels really bad. 4) 2-3 more boss abilities in their ability pools.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
For reference, I'm currently starting with Bolt Rail / Wave Front / Spark Array / Ball Lightning (signature). Bolt Rail doesn't suffer much from most basic arcana's awkward pause between combos and it has a good amount of range. Wave Front nullifies the only weakness of dashing, which is that you can get interrupted while dashing. Ball Lightning seems to do the most single target damage, which is great vs bosses. The other arcana should contain some form of AoE.
EDIT: 5:33 speedrun (not me)
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Well, I'd agree with that. For me it worked out to more like $16, but still.
I have to disagree on this part being "progression" (and I know it wasn't the ONLY part you cited, I just disagree with the rest). Unless you're talking specifically about the chaos arcana (and since you said "all the arcana", I'm assuming you're not), unlocking a lot of the arcana doesn't really "progress" you. Yes, there are some arcana that are better than others and to that degree it feels like progress. But there are plenty of crap ones, or just ones that aren't really that different than plenty of the others.
To me, "progression" is more like building a character who is more and more powerful as time goes on, rather than just giving more (limited) options to change your build up. You can only wear one robe at a time, so really you don't need to buy more than one to have hit all the "progress" in that arena. Similiarly, with arcana (other than chaos), there are plenty of builds you can win the game with that you can get in the first few hours of play. If you really want a certain build, you can just save up some gems and go to the merchant in town, resetting by going back to your room, until you find the four you like. As far as I know, all the arcanas (other than chaos) are for sale this way.
Ditto with the relics. And due to the limit of only one relic to take into the dungeon, you don't really "progress" so much as just experiment with different builds that are ultimately balanced in the same way. In other games with progression, I felt my character was getting stronger and stronger, completely apart from my own personal skill at the game getting better. After a few hours of play, WoL feels a little more like a "true" roguelike in that you'll just be trying different characters (builds).
I’ve been switching a lot of things around trying to find the best fit.
There’s this one wind spell Scales of Babylon I think? It’s a big knock back aoe that speeds you up, slows everyone it hits, and resets all your spell cool downs.
I’ve had a lot of success with it. Some of my best attempts used it.
I'm pretty sure 1-2 is all the game I'll ever see with this one...
The robes all do different things. Each color has its own set of two buffs. Once you unlock enough of them then the default robes get upgraded to four buffs each.
Robes
Patience – Increases Max Health, Run Speed, Armor, and Evade
Vigor – Increases Max Health, and Defense
Pace – Increases Run Speed, and Evade chance
Grit – Increases Armor, and Defense
Shift – Increases Evade Chance, and Critical Chance
Tempo – Decreases Cooldowns, Increases Run Speed
Awe – Increases Critical Chance, and Critical Damage
Rule – Increases Damage, and Armor
Venture – Decreases Max Health, and Cooldowns. Increases Run Speed and Damage
Pride – Decreases Max Health to 1
Hope and Patience have no effects until you unlock the Vigor, Venture, Pace, Awe, and Rule outfits
Bolt Rail - Circuit Line - Tearing Whirlwind - Shock Nova
Relic: Surefire Rocket.
Whirlwind into Shock Nova is crazy and keeps things stunned for Bolt Rail spam, and the Surefire Rocket is there only to counter this cursed relic I forget the name of. Crystal something. It cause you to build Signature Charge crazy fast, but also lose it crazy fast. However the Rocket overrides this, and keeps you from losing Signature Charge, meaning you'll just gain it at a crazy rate with no downside.