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Penny Arcade - Comic - Expansion

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited July 4 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - Comic - Expansion

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here


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Posts

  • BezzleBezzle Registered User new member
    Doomcock approves of this strip.

  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    Dat hairdo

    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Skull2185Skull2185 Mr. Steal yo' heart Registered User regular
    I don't know this show, but the second panel cracks me up. Is it a low budget show?

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I don't know this show, but the second panel cracks me up. Is it a low budget show?

    At 6,000,000$ per episode. No.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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  • Shadowman11Shadowman11 Registered User new member
    It has great production value, I don't know what you would improve.

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  • KeplersKeplers Registered User new member
    As someone who worked on the show.... People need to stop expecting Guardians of the Galaxy level effects on a TV show. We do our best with our budget, but last season the bigwigs really cut down our numbers. Don't expect Amazon to throw more money at it either. However, we are getting smarter about how we spend our money. If you have read the fourth book, it's pretty different in locale from the other books (it mostly takes place on one planet).

    I'm surprised about this comment on the sets, specifically the Roci. It's a pretty great set.

    Anyway, love PA. Expect some cool sets next season :)

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  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Dillon! You son of a bitch!Registered User regular
    Disagree. The Expanse looks great.

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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Compared to most sci-fi shows actually set in space (and not "Random Forest in British Columbia"*) The Expanse has an amazing set.

    *The list of "Sci-fi shows filmed in a random forest in british columbia" is really really long.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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  • Skull2185Skull2185 Mr. Steal yo' heart Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I don't know this show, but the second panel cracks me up. Is it a low budget show?

    At 6,000,000$ per episode. No.

    Goodness... Is this post Amazon production? The strip makes it seem like the show existed prior to Amazon taking over production

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I don't know this show, but the second panel cracks me up. Is it a low budget show?

    At 6,000,000$ per episode. No.

    Goodness... Is this post Amazon production? The strip makes it seem like the show existed prior to Amazon taking over production

    That's pre-Amazon.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • sokpupetsokpupet Registered User regular
    My biggest issue is the Roci in the books was never described as open-air as the Roci on the show is. Takes me out of it every time.

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Compared to most sci-fi shows actually set in space (and not "Random Forest in British Columbia"*) The Expanse has an amazing set.

    *The list of "Sci-fi shows filmed in a random forest in british columbia" is really really long.

    How does it compare to the list of "alien planets that look suspiciously like a quarry"?

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Compared to most sci-fi shows actually set in space (and not "Random Forest in British Columbia"*) The Expanse has an amazing set.

    *The list of "Sci-fi shows filmed in a random forest in british columbia" is really really long.

    How does it compare to the list of "alien planets that look suspiciously like a quarry"?

    About 4 times as long, almost rivalling "This wilderness looks suspiciously like Bronson Canyon"

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Most important thing I'm excited for with Amazon is the fucking, you know they can show some, and so we can get real zero g cum shots.

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  • robecoyoterobecoyote Registered User new member
    edited July 4
    I happen to love the workmanlike aesthetic of the show. I mean, have you ever seen sparkling shiny clean work vehicles on the roads. It's great how things look practical and how they probably would be...grimy, a bit worn and cheap looking. I like my sci fi with a layer of axle grease, not dirt free sanitised to hell and back and everything brand new.
    We do need to see more Belter ships with 'Clean Me' traced int he dirt on the viewports though ;)

    robecoyote on
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  • Quiss42Quiss42 Registered User regular
    edited July 4
    The only thing I was tempted to complain about was that Naomi Nagata wasn't the expected > 6 feet tall, fitting for a Belter. But even this took only a few minutes to forget about it.
    I think, The Expanse has a quite good setting for a TV show.
    Read all the books so far and am really looking forward to seeing it going on - they did a very good job in adapting the books for TV. There was not a single change that wasn't reasonable due to the different format and ruined the story line.
    Everyone complaining about it not being shiny enough should have a look at some other SF masterpieces first: Alien, Firefly. This is how the future will look like, and not as shiny as in "2001".

    Quiss42 on
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    They did as good a job at casting as possible given that no real humans grow up in zero-G.
    Naomi Nagata isn't tall, but with the exception of Dawes almost all belters have this thin, hollow look with a pointy jaw. Ok. Miller is kinda an exception, but if you compare Thomas Jane as Miller to Thomas Jane you can see that they really tried to de-emphasise his jawline.

    Compare that to many of the people cast as earthers or martians, who have a lot fuller faces with rounder and meatier cheekbones and just generally more padded bodies, not necessarily well trained but definitely more meat on their bones.
    Amos is pretty much the Anti-belter, with a face and body like a tank, a thick-boned frame with shorter limbs and a generous layer of muscles on top of it.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I could see some of the corners getting cut this season, but hard disagree on the Roci set, I think it's fantastic.

    Oh brilliant
    Tofystedeth
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I was sold on the set design in the first episode. Electronic control of the airlock has gone out and someone shouted to use hydraulic. At this point in most shows someone would go hit some other series of buttons. In Expanse a guy moved over to a wall panel, pulled it off, and started turning the necessary valve to let hydraulic fluid flow. Just like an actual ship.

    It was beautiful.

    Dark Raven XZilla360knitdan
  • KredKred Registered User regular
    edited July 5
    I'm with the consensus, I really like the look of the show and it doesn't seem "cheap" to me at all. In fact, having done a small bit of set design in college for plays and such, I know that it takes a lot of work to give a set that weathered, lived in feel. The shiny Star Trek type looks are much easier.

    I haven't watched much of The Expanse, and I kinda held off once I heard it was getting cancelled, but now I'll give it another shot. Sci-Fi channel can suck a dick though, what with cancelling Dark Matter in favor of The Expanse, and then tossing that in the garbage a year later. Bunch of morons.

    Kred on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    I can't really imagine why someone would think this show looks cheap. It looks fantastic for TV. The only stuff I can really imagine someone having much of an issue with is the CGI, which doesn't look as polished as it could because they can't spend ten billion dollars on it. But the sets all look great. If I had a garage like that I'd film a sci-fi show in it too.

    Tofystedethforty
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited July 5
    Kred wrote: »
    I'm with the consensus, I really like the look of the show and it doesn't seem "cheap" to me at all. In fact, having done a small bit of set design in college for plays and such, I know that it takes a lot of work to give a set that weathered, lived in feel. The shiny Star Trek type looks are much easier.

    I haven't watched much of The Expanse, and I kinda held off once I heard it was getting cancelled, but now I'll give it another shot. Sci-Fi channel can suck a dick though, what with cancelling Dark Matter in favor of The Expanse, and then tossing that in the garbage a year later. Bunch of morons.

    Don't you mean Syfy?
    493570344_Tudtd-2100x20000.jpg

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  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    robecoyote wrote: »
    I mean, have you ever seen sparkling shiny clean work vehicles on the roads. It's great how things look practical and how they probably would be...grimy, a bit worn and cheap looking.
    Quiss42 wrote: »
    Everyone complaining about it not being shiny enough should have a look at some other SF masterpieces first: Alien, Firefly. This is how the future will look like, and not as shiny as in "2001".
    Kred wrote: »
    I'm with the consensus, I really like the look of the show and it doesn't seem "cheap" to me at all. In fact, having done a small bit of set design in college for plays and such, I know that it takes a lot of work to give a set that weathered, lived in feel. The shiny Star Trek type looks are much easier.

    I keep seeing this, but IS anyone complaining that it looks dirty and not shiny? I haven't seen it here. I think most people realize that the grimy world of Star Wars IV-VI was far more skillful and believable than Star Wars I-III. I don't think that's what anyone means when they say they wish there was more money (and therefore hopefully work) put into the sets.

    H3Knuckles
  • rembrandtqeinsteinrembrandtqeinstein Registered User regular
    The Expanse looks amazing for TV. I would argue its the best looking SF TV series ever made, with the exception that occasionally the some of the exterior CG is a big rough. Also the purple field effect that stopped ships in the last couple of eps looked pretty cheap. But other than that the show looks great, but even better than looking great the world they are building feels believable.

    What is Gabe comparing it to anyway? Battlestar? The Cylons in battlestar look like game engine demo assets. I expected them to t-pose when they die because someone forgot to set the animation trigger.

    Zilla360Aeolusdallas
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    edited July 5
    What is Gabe comparing it to anyway?

    Movies, I'd expect. Particularly good movies.

    I think people are coming from it from two different approaches. One says "this looks good/great, given the budget." The other is more of a "no excuses" approach. It's kind of like when you have a video game, and say "this is amazing given that one person coded it in six months." We've seen plenty of times where that resonates with Jerry, but for Mike it doesn't mean anything. He just sees the flaws. You can rail about it all you want but it's just a matter of different tastes. No amount of arguing is really going to talk someone out of it.

    dennis on
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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    The part he specifically nitpicks is the Roci, which is weird. Because to me it looks amazing? I could see some of the exterior shots or the sometimes lazy way they handle lol g but..

    Tofystedeth
  • mr_carrotmr_carrot Registered User new member
    So I have created an account specifically to comment on this thread.

    I usually agree with Gabe & Tycho (except for politics and such, but that is to be expected, no biggie), but this? I couldn't disagree more.

    Call me blind, but I actually think The Expanse has the best sci-fi visuals I have seen on TV. Even more, because of the realism, the FX rival those of more expensive movies. Just recently, I was watching Rogue One with my better half and commented how unrealistic and cheap the CGI looked after having watched too much Expanse. She did not disagree, either.

    But Naomi looks cool in the comic so at least we have that...

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    I just binged through the first two seasons last weekend and they looked fine to me. I don't know what the season 3 budget did to it because even though Amazon picked it up the third season is still not on Prime yet c'mon guys get with the program

    Anyways it can't be that bad - but then I'm also used to having watched sci-fi shows where the budgets got real cheap as the show went on even as it started off cheap to begin with(basically anything Roddenberry made that wasn't Star Trek) so quality in my sci-fi serials is more of a pleasant surprise than an expectation.

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  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    Yeah to my eyes,, The Expanse looks amazing. The Rocinante in particular

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    It'll be a minor miracle if they don't cut the budget, much less make it bigger.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • KredKred Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    I keep seeing this, but IS anyone complaining that it looks dirty and not shiny? I haven't seen it here. I think most people realize that the grimy world of Star Wars IV-VI was far more skillful and believable than Star Wars I-III. I don't think that's what anyone means when they say they wish there was more money (and therefore hopefully work) put into the sets.

    I think that's what the comic is getting at. That's how I took it anyway.

    It seems like Mike is either all in for any given art style, or rejects it completely. Like there's no middle ground, so I can understand if he just doesn't like the way things are presented. But the middle panel seems to imply that they've got really bad cardboard cuttout windows, things like that going on, and that's really not the case.

    Tofystedeth
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    It's weird though, because it's
    Donnicton wrote: »
    I just binged through the first two seasons last weekend and they looked fine to me. I don't know what the season 3 budget did to it because even though Amazon picked it up the third season is still not on Prime yet c'mon guys get with the program

    Anyways it can't be that bad - but then I'm also used to having watched sci-fi shows where the budgets got real cheap as the show went on even as it started off cheap to begin with(basically anything Roddenberry made that wasn't Star Trek) so quality in my sci-fi serials is more of a pleasant surprise than an expectation.

    @Donnicton
    It is in fact on Prime now. I finished season 2 last night and it queued up the first ep of 3 for me. They changed the thumbnail for it for some reason so it looks like a different show.

    steam_sig.png
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    edited July 6
    Kred wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    I keep seeing this, but IS anyone complaining that it looks dirty and not shiny? I haven't seen it here. I think most people realize that the grimy world of Star Wars IV-VI was far more skillful and believable than Star Wars I-III. I don't think that's what anyone means when they say they wish there was more money (and therefore hopefully work) put into the sets.

    I think that's what the comic is getting at. That's how I took it anyway.

    [...]
    But the middle panel seems to imply that they've got really bad cardboard cuttout windows, things like that going on, and that's really not the case.

    Yeah, I just don't get how anyone could think that. You can have a stone age show with a really cheap looking set, and it has nothing to do with it not being "shiny". To me, the signs that something is low budget has more to do with things like the walls wobbling when people are walking next to them, or the same locations being repeated over and over. That's really totally orthogonal to the cleanliness of the setting.

    As far as the cardboard cutouts: as Tube would say, the thing is, it's a joke. Sometimes humorists use hyperbole. It's the visual gag equivalent to Gabe saying the Rocinante is someone's Prius.

    (He doesn't literally think it's a Prius.)

    dennis on
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    It's weird though, because it's
    Donnicton wrote: »
    I just binged through the first two seasons last weekend and they looked fine to me. I don't know what the season 3 budget did to it because even though Amazon picked it up the third season is still not on Prime yet c'mon guys get with the program

    Anyways it can't be that bad - but then I'm also used to having watched sci-fi shows where the budgets got real cheap as the show went on even as it started off cheap to begin with(basically anything Roddenberry made that wasn't Star Trek) so quality in my sci-fi serials is more of a pleasant surprise than an expectation.

    Donnicton
    It is in fact on Prime now. I finished season 2 last night and it queued up the first ep of 3 for me. They changed the thumbnail for it for some reason so it looks like a different show.

    It's on Amazon Video but it's not on Prime. The web site wants me to buy the season. I just checked to be safe but that's still the case as of right now.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    It's weird though, because it's
    Donnicton wrote: »
    I just binged through the first two seasons last weekend and they looked fine to me. I don't know what the season 3 budget did to it because even though Amazon picked it up the third season is still not on Prime yet c'mon guys get with the program

    Anyways it can't be that bad - but then I'm also used to having watched sci-fi shows where the budgets got real cheap as the show went on even as it started off cheap to begin with(basically anything Roddenberry made that wasn't Star Trek) so quality in my sci-fi serials is more of a pleasant surprise than an expectation.

    Donnicton
    It is in fact on Prime now. I finished season 2 last night and it queued up the first ep of 3 for me. They changed the thumbnail for it for some reason so it looks like a different show.

    It's on Amazon Video but it's not on Prime. The web site wants me to buy the season. I just checked to be safe but that's still the case as of right now.

    Oh, butts. I didn't try to play it so i didn't catch the distinction. I will join you in brandishing torch and pitchfork then.

    steam_sig.png
  • mr_carrotmr_carrot Registered User new member
    Side note: if there is anything that annoys me about the show it's the deviations from the books. And I don't mean the changed plot details. Rather, it's the tone difference. See, reading the books I immediately got to liking all the main characters.

    In the series, I initially only liked Amos and Avasarala. Then Alex a little bit. The series Holden seemed like an idiot for a long time and the series Naomi was a bitch.

    I kinda know why they are doing this, but I still miss the instant chemistry from the books.

  • ScynixScynix Registered User regular
    edited July 7
    Can someone explain this comic to me? I don't get the joke and lately I've found I'm understanding less and less of PA's comics.
    There's a lot of little things I could complain about on The Expanse, especially in relation to the book but the Rocinante looks fine to me. If anything it looks amazing. This joke flew right past me into "uhm... what?" territory. It wasn't a "joke". It makes me think the guys need an eye exam, or a better TV maybe?
    Are they trying to be clever like those stupid af ctrl+alt+del 'controversy' comics and make a shitty 'joke' to see if people will kiss their ass enough to pretend it's funny?
    Or did I miss something?

    It should be noted, this 'comic' confused me SO MUCH that I bothered to sign in to this forum and ask- something I haven't done in literal YEARS.

    @Donnicton Seasons 3 can't be prime until a specific amount of time has passed. It's part of their contract with syfylis. Just buying the rights to the show doesn't change pre-existing contracts. Well, I mean sometimes it does, but if you dig around a bit you'll find syfy is a notoriously bad company. Netflix wanted to buy Dark Matter but syfy refused to sell the rights, despite the writer/director supporting the sale. Syfy isn't hated by a huge portion of the science fiction community purely because their name sounds like a space std. They're also greedy af. They like to 'bake' shows and sell them off for a profit. The ones they retain long term are the ones that are really cheap to make, like Wynona Boring.

    Scynix on
  • KredKred Registered User regular
    Scynix wrote: »
    @Donnicton Seasons 3 can't be prime until a specific amount of time has passed. It's part of their contract with syfylis. Just buying the rights to the show doesn't change pre-existing contracts. Well, I mean sometimes it does, but if you dig around a bit you'll find syfy is a notoriously bad company. Netflix wanted to buy Dark Matter but syfy refused to sell the rights, despite the writer/director supporting the sale. Syfy isn't hated by a huge portion of the science fiction community purely because their name sounds like a space std. They're also greedy af. They like to 'bake' shows and sell them off for a profit. The ones they retain long term are the ones that are really cheap to make, like Wynona Boring.

    Very true. I will never forgive them for the Dark Matter fiasco.

    TofystedethMoridin889Scynix
  • Train DodgerTrain Dodger Registered User regular
    edited July 8
    Keplers wrote: »
    As someone who worked on the show.... People need to stop expecting Guardians of the Galaxy level effects on a TV show. We do our best with our budget, but last season the bigwigs really cut down our numbers. Don't expect Amazon to throw more money at it either. However, we are getting smarter about how we spend our money. If you have read the fourth book, it's pretty different in locale from the other books (it mostly takes place on one planet).

    I'm surprised about this comment on the sets, specifically the Roci. It's a pretty great set.

    Anyway, love PA. Expect some cool sets next season :)

    Gabe is categorically wrong in this strip. The Expanse had some of the best set, costume and prop designs of any show I've seen in the past couple decades. If someone thinks this looks low-budget, then they need either a bigger screen or better prescription lenses:

    wlR1ZwT.jpg

    Train Dodger on
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  • ZomagicZomagic Registered User regular
    I'm gonna be "that person" and say that Gabe's point of view might be from that of an artist, and that if you're not one, you might not "get" what he's saying. Even if you make nothing but comics, you still become more alert to visual details than the average person. There are a LOT of budget props in the Expanse and things that someone who has art/ design experience are going to recognize.

    For instance: I'll never forget sitting there watching the Expanse with my friend, who was vaping at the time. (Not actively, I just mean... he's quit since then.) The show whips out this "syringe", which is, incidentally, the exact vape tank he uses. They made ZERO visual alterations to it. It can be seen in the scenes where they're urgently delivering an antidote. So my friend, he takes a spare tank out of his pocket, jabs himself with the "injection" end of the vape tank, and cries out, "IT'S NOT WORKING!!" then starts prodding me with it. We were laughing so hard we had to stop the show for a bit.

    So... Gabe's point is entirely valid, but you might have to be paying closer attention than the average person. I've noticed the budget props several times.

    denniscB557
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