Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Convention center safety

Nathan WindNathan Wind Colorado Springs, CORegistered User regular
In light of the horrible incident in Jacksonville and other mass shootings, should PAX install X-ray machines and start checking backpacks at entry? I imagine the backup to enter would be horrible but the con floor is a nut jobs’ fantasy shooting gallery. I know knee jerk reactions and all that but seems like there isn’t much security anywhere in the WSCC. I don’t recall seeing any armed guards or remember bag checks in the past.

PAX Prime 14, 15
PAX West 16, 17
My Rig: I7 7700K, Aorus K5, 32GB RipJaws V, Samsung 960 PCIe 256 & 500, Zotac 1080Ti

Posts

  • SkeleVaderSkeleVader Your Friendly Dark Lord of Destruction Registered User regular
    My opinion is no. Security checks like that are just theater that do no actual good.
    The huge crowd of people waiting to get into the show would be just as big of a target and they wouldn’t have to buy a badge to get into the show.

    I agree we should do what we can to mitigate the risks, but security checks that just make it look like you are doing something is not the answer.

    YoungFreyvidThe AviatrixDruidsFlamebacon_avenger
  • MarinoMarino Giant Bomb Moderator / League of Heels Webmaster Registered User regular
    They started using metal detectors and bag checks at all the entrances of PAX East after the Boston bombing. But, I don't know how you can logistically do it in Seattle with how there are so many venues that the show encompasses. Also, installing metal detectors and bag checks at all those hotels (where the panels are) would be problematic considering not everyone in the hotel is there for PAX. I dunno. There's no good answer.

    vespachicaClannMorganPavioRhea_starstormYoungFrey
  • Croatian SensationCroatian Sensation Registered User regular
    They do have plain clothes seattle police officers in the crowd at pax, at least that provides some security if the something were to occur

    Nathan WindSkeleVaderSinoSambaClannMorganPavioInitialdorYoungFreySuzama
  • kaZombiekaZombie AlbertaRegistered User regular
    Putting up more barriers won't really stop someone from doing something if they really want to.

    mcdermottbacon_avenger
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Marino wrote: »
    They started using metal detectors and bag checks at all the entrances of PAX East after the Boston bombing. But, I don't know how you can logistically do it in Seattle with how there are so many venues that the show encompasses. Also, installing metal detectors and bag checks at all those hotels (where the panels are) would be problematic considering not everyone in the hotel is there for PAX. I dunno. There's no good answer.

    My experience with the East checks were that they were inconsistent in their methodology. One screener's process would not be the same as another's which added to the feeling of it all being theater.

    Future Employee of Planetary Acquisitions, Inc.
    pNRtexA.png
    kaZombieSkeleVader
  • oldskoolboarderoldskoolboarder Registered User regular
    Hopefully the organizers will let attendees know if security is tightened so we can plan accordingly.

    I'm sure it's made more complicated by the fact that Washington is an open carry state as well.

  • PavioPavio Registered User regular
    They do have plain clothes seattle police officers in the crowd at pax, at least that provides some security if the something were to occur

    Yes, and they send around the occasional uniformed officers as well.

    As far as the comment about the East checks being inconsistent, it's true. But generally didn't take too long, and you were sent to line up within the building after you got through.

    PAX Prime '07, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, '18
    PAX South '15
    PAX East '16, '17
  • TamwulfTamwulf Registered User regular
    I dare you to open carry in downtown Seattle and see how far you get before you are sitting in the King County Sheriff's Office or Seattle PD answering questions.
    PAX has a "No Weapons" policy. Washington State has made it illegal to carry a firearm in the convention center (http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300). I don't even want to look at all the local county and city ordinances that restrict or outlaw open carry in downtown Seattle. It's probably one of the most unfriendly firearms cities in the US.

    As pointed out, there is nothing anyone can do to prevent a determined individual from performing violence on other people- be it by firearm, knife, bomb, car, truck, etc. etc. The best thing you can do is be aware. Be aware of your surroundings, report people with odd behavior, always have an escape route and know where the nearest exit is.

    Witty Comments Require No Explanation,
    Sarcasm Allows None.
    RioOneZeRoTOGSolid
  • RoundtopRoundtop Pathfinder Vancouver, BCRegistered User regular
    #1: Take a breath.
    #2: Realize that if someone is determined to do something (and die in the process), there is very little anyone can do about it, until after it has already occurred.
    #3: Realize that #2 is difficult to trigger, and the best thing you can do is to be friendly, and not dismissive of people.
    #4: Realize that you are more likely to die in a car crash driving to PAX in a 15 minute drive than this is to ever occur (Many times more likely)
    #5: Remember that fear is the mind killer. Fear makes people do stupid things. Don't fear.

    kbschmidokami423 vespachicaLexiconGrrlI3izzy
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Maintaining that level of security is a fool’s errand on a venue of this size, particularly when you have constant re-entry throughout the day
    (across multiple venues). IIRC heightened security is the reason given for why Bumbershoot is moving to no re-entry as a general policy this year.

    On the whole you achieve a marginal increase in safety at a cost that often greatly outweighs it.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    PAX's stance is the correct one. Throwing up metal detectors and bag checks doesn't stop a determined attacker. Very little can, short of instituting dystopian and draconian security measures. I refuse to walk around living my life in fear of some psychopath with a weapon. Equally I don't want to be treated like a criminal and forced through security checkpoints at a gaming convention that is about openness and inclusion.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    P.D.B. FishsticksGONG-00TurboXLDruidsFlamebacon_avenger
  • RioOneZeRoRioOneZeRo Registered User new member
    Look I will agree security is very important I just have to disagree with Tamwulf on this one, go check out opencarry.org and get informed. Not here to argue only posting facts, you can open carry anywhere in WA state and you there are exemptions in the WSCC for concealed pistol license holders and others.

  • SinoSambaSinoSamba CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    I'm with the people that say security theater actually creates an even easier target that is the agglomeration of people waiting to go through security. Pay attention to your surroundings and "see something, say something" still works best. But no paranoia either, please.

    Open carry wild west mentality of "good guy with gun" is no solution either, it's just more people with very little training all freaked and shooting into a crowd. Basic probability will tell you everyone that ends up getting shot will be an innocent and the perpetrator will be unharmed.

    3DS FC: 3239-2323-6239
    vespachica
  • japerryjaperry Registered User regular
    Interestingly, according to the law it does appear that you can carry a concealed pistol in the convention center, the law specifically exempts it. Not sure PAX can actually enforce a no concealed weapons rule, although concealed means exactly that--if you're showing it, you'd get in trouble anyway.

    r2zaVOP.png
    TurboXL
  • TamwulfTamwulf Registered User regular
    RioOneZeRo wrote: »
    Look I will agree security is very important I just have to disagree with Tamwulf on this one, go check out opencarry.org and get informed. Not here to argue only posting facts, you can open carry anywhere in WA state and you there are exemptions in the WSCC for concealed pistol license holders and others.
    I was talking open carry. And again, I stand by what I said. Open carry in downtown Seattle and see how far you get before you are sitting in the King County Sheriff's Office or Seattle PD answering questions.

    Witty Comments Require No Explanation,
    Sarcasm Allows None.
  • vespachicavespachica SeattleRegistered User regular
    No functional props or weapons are allowed at PAX.

    So stop it about whether or not open carry is a thing or not because it's irrelevant.

    ufq9gj8383nh.png

  • TurboXLTurboXL Registered User new member
    I don't recall ever having bag checks at PAX, and wouldn't want them. Nor metal detectors, to echo some of the other comments. There are tons of uniformed and plain clothed cops at and around the convention center every year though. And WA is a pretty friendly concealed carry state, so there is certainly a civilian presence as well. Bag checks, metal detectors etc would do nothing to help and everything to ruin the already congested show.

  • Lilith NightStarLilith NightStar Registered User new member
    edited September 3
    I too read the news daily, and just to confirm I get concerned about security too not just because of shootings, but potential b**** threats too which could one day turn out to be real.

    In America every single day, there are many shootings that do not need to happen including but not limited to what happened at the gaming event in Jacksville Flordia, and schools, if you open Google Browser and look up specific keywords on the news you can look at the news in your area regarding crime taking place.

    I generally don't go to Pax, but I have many friends that do, although I do go to smaller event's, but still I am really concerned as far as security goes.

    . For the casual shooter who is just mentally insane and does a crime they are likely to get stopped, or detected if security is good enough.

    . Planned Execution of an attack is the one that conerns me the most.

    - It's legal to buy body armor online.
    - 3D Printed Weapons can now easily be made.
    - I** can be made from instructions on the internet.
    - Social Engineering, can be used by people to carry out an attack.
    - RF ID tags are easily hacked / cloned on facility that use these.
    - Knowing the layout of the facility, position of security, and guards
    - Police Uniforms are easy to make fabricated ones that look real enough, This is one thing I hope Pax does is verify each officer at Pax over the radio. Because as we know cosplayers can make well designed uniforms, even getting all the same type of equipment a police officer has is easy such as in my area Axon Body Cameras, Pepper Spray, Taser, and so on all easy to get so this could be one of the biggest security flaws in most places.
    ^ From here learning to act like a police officer, the code words, and how to equip the uniform is the biggest issue but not really that hard to do either.

    In other words there are many factors to consider when carrying out an attack, most of the time in America though what you read about on the news it's due to lack of security, for example a Student letting another student in through a back-door in the school who is armed, or pulling the fire-alarm to unlock doors based off news articles i've read in the past.

    There are however many things that America, or rather facility, and event's likely do not have which would enhance security.

    - Installing facial recognition cameras to detect possible terror activity, and known criminals on property This technology is here many places do not use it because of the cost.
    - Gunshot Detectors, Yes they are real certain places should use it.

    - The best security in the end is Humans, nothing is fool proof, there are always ways in you just have to find them, but there are ways to make it really hard, and unlikely, and it's true you are more likely to die in an accident than at an attack at a public place, but when it does happen it hurts a lot.
    - Also for security, you need to research all the mass - shootings off the internet, and learn to think like they do, and like a organized group doing a crime would, this is how you can help prevent it, and when something does happen, you learn from it and make it even better.

    - I do support 2A, and Concealed Carry it can save lives, but gotta look at it two ways a person who does get a concealed, or open carry license, and has mental health issues could end up harming others, although it can save lives so its really 50/50 of what can happen and can't although getting a weapon isn't really that hard even if you are not supposed to have one 80% arms is totally legal to those who can own, but even those who are not supposed to can still get hold of them.

    But hey then lets talk about chance.

    - Almost died when I was young due to health related issues.
    - Almost got struck but lightning would have died, only thing that saved me was an old TV Antenna grounding so that got hit instead.
    - Almost got run over by a pizza driver in a parking lot talking on their cellphone.
    - If I did not stop to make a phone call to a family member I would have likely been hit by two cars at a 4 way crossing who ran into each-other (Both lived thankfully) but had those events not have taken place I would likely not be here today.

    And I know Pax is doing everything in their power to keep everyone safe, but safety is everyone's responsibility as well, if you see something that seems off you need to say something, or notify security, and there should actually be a phone number the public can user disclosed where people can report incidents or security risks to pax over the phone especially since it's so big.

    Lilith NightStar on
  • XalaraXalara Registered User regular
    The short answer Lilith is that you worry too much. The longer answer is that you're not wrong about your worries but sophisticated attacks are incredibly rare due to a simple reason: These attacks require smart people, and smart people generally enjoy their freedom. For every other kind of attack, the best way to make people safer is to support social policies that reduce crime and gun violence. That is hard and takes time. So the next best thing, which is what PAX has done, is increase the presence of uniformed officers.

  • vespachicavespachica SeattleRegistered User regular
    I was really happy to see an increased security presence this year.

    Additionally, it made me think of a space to meet up with my family (we often go separate ways) should something go wrong. This doesn't necessarily mean an act of violence. It could also be, for example, in the event of an earthquake. It felt good to think of a contingency plan like that because we all know that cell/text reception at PAX is sketchy, at best.

    ufq9gj8383nh.png

Sign In or Register to comment.