By the same token, SBF are a bunch of drunk Canadian gamers, and do not have to conform to holding the exact same opinions as their PA fanbase.
I think that especially compared to other "well known" LPers, they come out pretty ok. This does not mean they are perfect.
It's true that they—and let's be real, in this conversation we're talking about Pat, not Woolie or Matt, so I'm going to use "he" from now on—did come down pretty hard on centrist shit in general, and specifically pushed back against abuses against workers and said other good-sounding, leftist things. That's true. It's part of what made the SBFP so easy to enjoy while they were going.
But this stuff about Paige hanging out with an MRA thought leader puts a lot of Pat's defenses of her associations in a very different light. We can appreciate everything about how Pat has behaved in the past and what we've gotten out of the things he's produced, but those defenses are still what they are, you know? They're still there; they're still defending the rights of people to associate and mingle with the alt-right without needing to interrogate it. And, more than that, the last episode of the Friendcast is used as a platform to actually promote one of those connections. Which is bad. Top-tier, eye-searing bad.
If you don't want to think of it as a milkshake duck, that's fine (it's probably still a milkshake duck). You don't have to. But it's still bad, innit? Even if Pat didn't turn into Pewdiepie, that's just bad. You know?
Pat doesn't have to adhere to our ideas of what's moral, no. But, by the same token, we sure as shit don't have to support his work in the future. And, in fact, based on your moral stances with regards to these issues, it's probably a moral imperative to not follow him in the future
Wyborn on
+9
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
I'm really not including Paige in this conversation since she's not officially part of the crew. Pat charging in an acting like a dick is just his main personality. Which I think is the bigger root of the breakup.
I never liked Pat personally as much as the other cast members, but I'm also not a fan of dumping on the guy by proxy because his of girlfriend's choices. We all do dumb things for love.
Edit:
And, more than that, the last episode of the Friendcast is used as a platform to actually promote one of those connections. Which is bad. Top-tier, eye-searing bad.
I was unware of this, what did he promote exactly?
I'm really not including Paige in this conversation since she's not officially part of the crew. Pat charging in an acting like a dick is just his main personality. Which I think is the bigger root of the breakup.
Gonna circle this back around to my point that there's no excuse for enabling the platforming of the alt-right that's acceptable. It doesn't matter what his reasons for it are, the fact that he's willing to lend his own platform to his girlfriend's promotion of fascists undermines any good opinions he might otherwise profess. There is no good Nazi sympathizer.
We're not talking about the break-up anymore, we're talking about Pat.
And yeah, sure, we do stupid shit for love. And we suffer consequences for it! As we should! Don't do stupid shit, especially when stupid shit harms other people! Don't do it.
I'm really not including Paige in this conversation since she's not officially part of the crew. Pat charging in an acting like a dick is just his main personality. Which I think is the bigger root of the breakup.
I never liked Pat personally as much as the other cast members, but I'm also not a fan of dumping on the guy by proxy because his of girlfriend's choices. We all do dumb things for love.
Edit:
And, more than that, the last episode of the Friendcast is used as a platform to actually promote one of those connections. Which is bad. Top-tier, eye-searing bad.
I was unware of this, what did he promote exactly?
Paige plugged her friend Dick and his podcast, if you remember? Her friend Dick, whose whole name I'm not writing out here? You can Google him. He's an MRA thought leader and one of the most prominent anti-feminists in the English language.
Sure, I'm not saying continue to watch him. It's just over the years I heard him speak about a number of topics that were pretty anti-fair right, so it's a surprise to see things have gone that bad.
Paige definitely strikes me as someone who is privileged and removed enough from certain realities that she doesn't get what the whole big to do is. She's probably not a terrible person herself, but she definitely associates with some absolutely horrid people. I think she and Pat also are the sort of people to dig in their heels when people tell them they shouldn't do something or associate with certain people. It creates a bizarre situation where you have two people who are probably pretty good, who defend shitty people and shitty stances. I've sadly had people like this in my own life, and it can be absolutely maddening seeing a decent person twist logic to justify being a bit shitty for absolutely no reason.
It's complicated and frustrating to say the least, and it does make me very wary of supporting them or watching them.
Just wanna point out, as a trans woman living in the United States of America, that "associates with some absolutely horrid people" and "dig in their heels when people tell them they're doing bad things" absolutely cancels out "not a terrible person". Enabling, platforming, and making excuses for nazis is functionally no different than actually being one and more than anything, what gets people like me killed is "good people" who just "don't get what the whole be to-do is".
This is a good point. I'll definitely try to be better about this sort of thing. Sorry.
I thought a dude name Dick Whatever, with a podcast named the Dick Show, would be a big ole MRA parody.
Glad(?) to see those fucks are still self-serious ignorant jackasses.
I found SBFP a little over a year ago, never been to interested in the Let’s Play scene. At first thry put me off because they talked constantly through games I wanted to see played, and were...uh, not good at them. Maybe longer actually, I came on board right after Liam left.
Didn’t really click until...god, some random LP I was watching that these men were excellent when it came to games I(or they) didn’t give a shit about, and that’s when it turned from “kinda watch occasionally” to “Devour ALL CONTENT”
Fuckin heartbreaking to see them go, but all my prayers goin into Matt and Pat patching things up in real life. Ain’t no job worth a friendship.
Woolie will be fine since he’s secretly the glue to all the SBF, I’m sure he’ll get them all on his LP projects
Matt I’m a little worried about. When he was on he was literally the best of them all, but he’s also the type of person that seems to 100% need someone to play off of. Eventually he’ll get better of course, but Pat and Matt shooting the shit is everything I didn’t know I wanted.
Pat I...wasn’t worried about until the tail end of this thread. I feel like the MRA/Nazi shit isn’t brought up in private. And now it will be, and it’ll break their relationship, which will break him. Pat strikes me as the kind of person who isn’t cool with that, but also hasn’t pressed Paige beyond “those guys she knows.”.
And Paige definitely strikes me as the type of person who believes they can be friends with anyone, and support them without feeling like she’s supporting or adopting their views, which is a big ole lie white people like to tell themselves.
Maybe being historically unable to get through any lps without calling every female character a "bitch" at some point actually is indicative of one's character
Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
As someone who hasn't followed the Best Friends for very long, this has the feeling of something that's been both a long time coming, and something that was accelerated into being by some recent event
I really don't like to speculate too much, because it reminds me of all those "Brad does cocaine and Jeff secretly hates Rorie" rumors about the Giant Bomb crew, but... man, I dunno, you don't stop being friends overnight, but you also don't cut ties hard and fast if you're just drifting apart, either
And quite frankly I think it's telling that we are all talking about Pat in this equation, and not Matt
I also don't want to speculate; the fallout's been hard on Matt (and apparently it's even been hard on Leanna, a fact that I hate); it does feel like there was a pretty major fallout, though, given how fast the channel was shut down
As someone who hasn't followed the Best Friends for very long, this has the feeling of something that's been both a long time coming, and something that was accelerated into being by some recent event
I really don't like to speculate too much, because it reminds me of all those "Brad does cocaine and Jeff secretly hates Rorie" rumors about the Giant Bomb crew, but... man, I dunno, you don't stop being friends overnight, but you also don't cut ties hard and fast if you're just drifting apart, either
And quite frankly I think it's telling that we are all talking about Pat in this equation, and not Matt
Oh Matt’s been dogging it for AWHILE now.
And Pat is exactly the type of person who would use that as a platform of righteousness, when the the thing that was causing Matt to dog it was the real problem.
Woolie will be fine since he’s secretly the glue to all the SBF, I’m sure he’ll get them all on his LP projects
this is worth remembering, yeah
Matt & Pat got to know each other because of their mutual friend, Woolie
Liam was Woolie's QA co-worker
Billy IIRC was Woolie's roommate
etc. etc.
also, make of it what you will, but do note that Woolie is the guy who's still associating with Pat and making a podcast with him
the situation's kind of messy all-around, really
+3
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
I'm really not including Paige in this conversation since she's not officially part of the crew. Pat charging in an acting like a dick is just his main personality. Which I think is the bigger root of the breakup.
Gonna circle this back around to my point that there's no excuse for enabling the platforming of the alt-right that's acceptable. It doesn't matter what his reasons for it are, the fact that he's willing to lend his own platform to his girlfriend's promotion of fascists undermines any good opinions he might otherwise profess. There is no good Nazi sympathizer.
I'm really not including Paige in this conversation since she's not officially part of the crew. Pat charging in an acting like a dick is just his main personality. Which I think is the bigger root of the breakup.
Gonna circle this back around to my point that there's no excuse for enabling the platforming of the alt-right that's acceptable. It doesn't matter what his reasons for it are, the fact that he's willing to lend his own platform to his girlfriend's promotion of fascists undermines any good opinions he might otherwise profess. There is no good Nazi sympathizer.
what about joseph joestar
Of the many reasons why I hate JJBA and sort of resent all the otherwise trustworthy people in my life who talk it up, this one might be at the top of the list.
I honestly had no idea this Dick guy was that bad. I've never heard him mentioned anywhere outside of when Paige would bring him up.
Can someone point me in the right direction to educate myself on this dude?
His website is thedickshow and so is his reddit
Used to be cohost of Maddox on the biggest problem in the universe podcast, until he started dating Maddox’s ex. Various legal happenings were to follow, so probably the term “lolsuit” will bring up various infos
I'm really not including Paige in this conversation since she's not officially part of the crew. Pat charging in an acting like a dick is just his main personality. Which I think is the bigger root of the breakup.
Gonna circle this back around to my point that there's no excuse for enabling the platforming of the alt-right that's acceptable. It doesn't matter what his reasons for it are, the fact that he's willing to lend his own platform to his girlfriend's promotion of fascists undermines any good opinions he might otherwise profess. There is no good Nazi sympathizer.
what about joseph joestar
He was the guy who said “yeah well maybe all your nazi soldiers deserved to get eaten by a super vampire, ever think about that?”
0
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BrocksMulletInto the sunrise, on a jet-ski. Natch.Registered Userregular
Was genuinely sad to see this the other day, they meant a lot to me in some bummer times. It's a good thing I like Matt's solo content so much, it was getting harder to look the other way on the Paige stuff, to the point where it was affecting how I felt about the main channel.
We're not talking about the break-up anymore, we're talking about Pat.
And yeah, sure, we do stupid shit for love. And we suffer consequences for it! As we should! Don't do stupid shit, especially when stupid shit harms other people! Don't do it.
Also: I have never handwaived my partner being friends with MRAs / Nazis before, and I hope no one here has either? And if that isn't cause for a breakup, I'd at least expect a) you ask said partner not to plug that MRI / Nazi on your podcast, and b) you take a step back when someone calls your partner on that association rather than going on the defensive
huh, just finding out about this. sad but not unexpected. i've been feeling the negative body language between Pat and everyone else for months now, if not longer
i really hope Matt and Wooly start streaming in a bigger way because they are my (and I assume everyone here's) favorites
It's (obviously) been hard on Woolie. He posted on IG earlier, too::
Left: Tuesday December 11th
Right: Friday December 14th
Sure I committed to keto, running each morning and boxing 3 times a week to modest results, but it turns out you can ditch all that and eat little besides crippling anxiety for a few days to really slim down. (Don't worry, I'm doing better, this shit is just getting preposterous.)
The way Pat would relentlessly talk over everyone else on the podcast was enough to sour me on his portion of the content. I was happy when he would miss podcasts because Woolie and Matt (and Liam to a certain extent) could have a discussion without having to stop every ten seconds for Pat to interject.
huh, just finding out about this. sad but not unexpected. i've been feeling the negative body language between Pat and everyone else for months now, if not longer
i really hope Matt and Wooly start streaming in a bigger way because they are my (and I assume everyone here's) favorites
It's very specifically between Matt and Pat, it would seem; Pat and Woolie are continuing to work together, at least for a new podcast and potentially for other projects
And I'll be real: Pat was my favorite of these personalities. His videos and LPs were some of my favorites to watch. So, you know, this shit's a special bummer. But it being a bummer don't change the fact that I can wash my hands of him and go along
I hold ignorance in less contempt than an outright thought out malicious world view, but if people point out the shitty things you or people around you do and you choose to ignore them that is what I can most charitably describe as willful ignorance.
Like to put it another. Many people, hell... most people have prejudices or beliefs unfounded in any objective reading of reality. (read several pages ago in the thread vis a vis "American=probably a racist nazi") Most of the time, they aren't aware of them because they've never consciously thought about them. Sometimes these beliefs are, in general or in the specific individual case, harmless to everybody. Other times... they can be extremely harmful, directly or indirectly, to others or even to the person holding the belief.
I call that, holding an incorrect and never thought about assumption, as ignorance. And I'm quite forgiving of it because ultimately I don't see it as intentionally malicious. It can still be extremely harmful, and should be acted against, but I find it hard to blame someone just for holding a belief that they may have acquired before they were even capable of really acting independently.
Something else though, is when people hold an incorrect, harmful view... and they rationalize. They defend it. They expand it. They tether the core of their identity to it. And that's different. That's choosing to hold your belief, your self-chosen identity, over the well-being of others. That's choosing that no matter how negative the consequences of your belief, to others or even yourself, you will defend it even over the well-being, or even the lives, of others. And again, that's different. That's not ignorance, that's ideology. Hateful ideology.
And I am not sure where Paige falls, but she has apparently been hanging out with some people who definitely, vocally fall into the latter category. And well that's... troubling, to say the least.
We're not talking about the break-up anymore, we're talking about Pat.
And yeah, sure, we do stupid shit for love. And we suffer consequences for it! As we should! Don't do stupid shit, especially when stupid shit harms other people! Don't do it.
Also: I have never handwaived my partner being friends with MRAs / Nazis before, and I hope no one here has either? And if that isn't cause for a breakup, I'd at least expect a) you ask said partner not to plug that MRI / Nazi on your podcast, and b) you take a step back when someone calls your partner on that association rather than going on the defensive
you heard it here first, Wyborn is friends with MRAs / Nazis, and SilverWind refuses to handwaive it!
We're not talking about the break-up anymore, we're talking about Pat.
And yeah, sure, we do stupid shit for love. And we suffer consequences for it! As we should! Don't do stupid shit, especially when stupid shit harms other people! Don't do it.
Also: I have never handwaived my partner being friends with MRAs / Nazis before, and I hope no one here has either? And if that isn't cause for a breakup, I'd at least expect a) you ask said partner not to plug that MRI / Nazi on your podcast, and b) you take a step back when someone calls your partner on that association rather than going on the defensive
you heard it here first, Wyborn is friends with MRAs / Nazis, and SilverWind refuses to handwaive it!
I can always count on you to find the jokes I considered making but felt were in too poor taste
+3
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
We're not talking about the break-up anymore, we're talking about Pat.
And yeah, sure, we do stupid shit for love. And we suffer consequences for it! As we should! Don't do stupid shit, especially when stupid shit harms other people! Don't do it.
Also: I have never handwaived my partner being friends with MRAs / Nazis before, and I hope no one here has either? And if that isn't cause for a breakup, I'd at least expect a) you ask said partner not to plug that MRI / Nazi on your podcast, and b) you take a step back when someone calls your partner on that association rather than going on the defensive
you heard it here first, Wyborn is friends with MRAs / Nazis, and SilverWind refuses to handwaive it!
We're not talking about the break-up anymore, we're talking about Pat.
And yeah, sure, we do stupid shit for love. And we suffer consequences for it! As we should! Don't do stupid shit, especially when stupid shit harms other people! Don't do it.
Also: I have never handwaived my partner being friends with MRAs / Nazis before, and I hope no one here has either? And if that isn't cause for a breakup, I'd at least expect a) you ask said partner not to plug that MRI / Nazi on your podcast, and b) you take a step back when someone calls your partner on that association rather than going on the defensive
you heard it here first, Wyborn is friends with MRAs / Nazis, and SilverWind refuses to handwaive it!
I can always count on you to find the jokes I considered making but felt were in too poor taste
Posts
It's true that they—and let's be real, in this conversation we're talking about Pat, not Woolie or Matt, so I'm going to use "he" from now on—did come down pretty hard on centrist shit in general, and specifically pushed back against abuses against workers and said other good-sounding, leftist things. That's true. It's part of what made the SBFP so easy to enjoy while they were going.
But this stuff about Paige hanging out with an MRA thought leader puts a lot of Pat's defenses of her associations in a very different light. We can appreciate everything about how Pat has behaved in the past and what we've gotten out of the things he's produced, but those defenses are still what they are, you know? They're still there; they're still defending the rights of people to associate and mingle with the alt-right without needing to interrogate it. And, more than that, the last episode of the Friendcast is used as a platform to actually promote one of those connections. Which is bad. Top-tier, eye-searing bad.
If you don't want to think of it as a milkshake duck, that's fine (it's probably still a milkshake duck). You don't have to. But it's still bad, innit? Even if Pat didn't turn into Pewdiepie, that's just bad. You know?
Pat doesn't have to adhere to our ideas of what's moral, no. But, by the same token, we sure as shit don't have to support his work in the future. And, in fact, based on your moral stances with regards to these issues, it's probably a moral imperative to not follow him in the future
2snacks. How is 2snacks.
I never liked Pat personally as much as the other cast members, but I'm also not a fan of dumping on the guy by proxy because his of girlfriend's choices. We all do dumb things for love.
Edit:
I was unware of this, what did he promote exactly?
Gonna circle this back around to my point that there's no excuse for enabling the platforming of the alt-right that's acceptable. It doesn't matter what his reasons for it are, the fact that he's willing to lend his own platform to his girlfriend's promotion of fascists undermines any good opinions he might otherwise profess. There is no good Nazi sympathizer.
And yeah, sure, we do stupid shit for love. And we suffer consequences for it! As we should! Don't do stupid shit, especially when stupid shit harms other people! Don't do it.
Paige plugged her friend Dick and his podcast, if you remember? Her friend Dick, whose whole name I'm not writing out here? You can Google him. He's an MRA thought leader and one of the most prominent anti-feminists in the English language.
Not saying that was the only reason, because I don't think it was, but that probably didn't earn him many points.
Does that help contextualize this, and how Pat's platform is being used to boost really harmful views?
This is a good point. I'll definitely try to be better about this sort of thing. Sorry.
I thought a dude name Dick Whatever, with a podcast named the Dick Show, would be a big ole MRA parody.
Glad(?) to see those fucks are still self-serious ignorant jackasses.
I found SBFP a little over a year ago, never been to interested in the Let’s Play scene. At first thry put me off because they talked constantly through games I wanted to see played, and were...uh, not good at them. Maybe longer actually, I came on board right after Liam left.
Didn’t really click until...god, some random LP I was watching that these men were excellent when it came to games I(or they) didn’t give a shit about, and that’s when it turned from “kinda watch occasionally” to “Devour ALL CONTENT”
Fuckin heartbreaking to see them go, but all my prayers goin into Matt and Pat patching things up in real life. Ain’t no job worth a friendship.
Woolie will be fine since he’s secretly the glue to all the SBF, I’m sure he’ll get them all on his LP projects
Matt I’m a little worried about. When he was on he was literally the best of them all, but he’s also the type of person that seems to 100% need someone to play off of. Eventually he’ll get better of course, but Pat and Matt shooting the shit is everything I didn’t know I wanted.
Pat I...wasn’t worried about until the tail end of this thread. I feel like the MRA/Nazi shit isn’t brought up in private. And now it will be, and it’ll break their relationship, which will break him. Pat strikes me as the kind of person who isn’t cool with that, but also hasn’t pressed Paige beyond “those guys she knows.”.
And Paige definitely strikes me as the type of person who believes they can be friends with anyone, and support them without feeling like she’s supporting or adopting their views, which is a big ole lie white people like to tell themselves.
Ugh this whole thing is too much for me maaaannnn
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
I really don't like to speculate too much, because it reminds me of all those "Brad does cocaine and Jeff secretly hates Rorie" rumors about the Giant Bomb crew, but... man, I dunno, you don't stop being friends overnight, but you also don't cut ties hard and fast if you're just drifting apart, either
And quite frankly I think it's telling that we are all talking about Pat in this equation, and not Matt
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I also don't want to speculate; the fallout's been hard on Matt (and apparently it's even been hard on Leanna, a fact that I hate); it does feel like there was a pretty major fallout, though, given how fast the channel was shut down
We'll hear the full story one of these days
Oh Matt’s been dogging it for AWHILE now.
And Pat is exactly the type of person who would use that as a platform of righteousness, when the the thing that was causing Matt to dog it was the real problem.
this is worth remembering, yeah
Matt & Pat got to know each other because of their mutual friend, Woolie
Liam was Woolie's QA co-worker
Billy IIRC was Woolie's roommate
etc. etc.
also, make of it what you will, but do note that Woolie is the guy who's still associating with Pat and making a podcast with him
the situation's kind of messy all-around, really
what about joseph joestar
Can someone point me in the right direction to educate myself on this dude?
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Of the many reasons why I hate JJBA and sort of resent all the otherwise trustworthy people in my life who talk it up, this one might be at the top of the list.
Fuck him and fuck that show
His website is thedickshow and so is his reddit
Used to be cohost of Maddox on the biggest problem in the universe podcast, until he started dating Maddox’s ex. Various legal happenings were to follow, so probably the term “lolsuit” will bring up various infos
Haha god damn
hell yeah
Let us suffer in Omikron, one last time
He was the guy who said “yeah well maybe all your nazi soldiers deserved to get eaten by a super vampire, ever think about that?”
Steam: BrocksMullet http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197972421669/
Also: I have never handwaived my partner being friends with MRAs / Nazis before, and I hope no one here has either? And if that isn't cause for a breakup, I'd at least expect a) you ask said partner not to plug that MRI / Nazi on your podcast, and b) you take a step back when someone calls your partner on that association rather than going on the defensive
Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227
My ACNH Wishlists | My ACNH Catalog
i really hope Matt and Wooly start streaming in a bigger way because they are my (and I assume everyone here's) favorites
It's (obviously) been hard on Woolie. He posted on IG earlier, too::
Left: Tuesday December 11th
Right: Friday December 14th
Sure I committed to keto, running each morning and boxing 3 times a week to modest results, but it turns out you can ditch all that and eat little besides crippling anxiety for a few days to really slim down. (Don't worry, I'm doing better, this shit is just getting preposterous.)
It's very specifically between Matt and Pat, it would seem; Pat and Woolie are continuing to work together, at least for a new podcast and potentially for other projects
And I'll be real: Pat was my favorite of these personalities. His videos and LPs were some of my favorites to watch. So, you know, this shit's a special bummer. But it being a bummer don't change the fact that I can wash my hands of him and go along
I hold ignorance in less contempt than an outright thought out malicious world view, but if people point out the shitty things you or people around you do and you choose to ignore them that is what I can most charitably describe as willful ignorance.
Like to put it another. Many people, hell... most people have prejudices or beliefs unfounded in any objective reading of reality. (read several pages ago in the thread vis a vis "American=probably a racist nazi") Most of the time, they aren't aware of them because they've never consciously thought about them. Sometimes these beliefs are, in general or in the specific individual case, harmless to everybody. Other times... they can be extremely harmful, directly or indirectly, to others or even to the person holding the belief.
I call that, holding an incorrect and never thought about assumption, as ignorance. And I'm quite forgiving of it because ultimately I don't see it as intentionally malicious. It can still be extremely harmful, and should be acted against, but I find it hard to blame someone just for holding a belief that they may have acquired before they were even capable of really acting independently.
Something else though, is when people hold an incorrect, harmful view... and they rationalize. They defend it. They expand it. They tether the core of their identity to it. And that's different. That's choosing to hold your belief, your self-chosen identity, over the well-being of others. That's choosing that no matter how negative the consequences of your belief, to others or even yourself, you will defend it even over the well-being, or even the lives, of others. And again, that's different. That's not ignorance, that's ideology. Hateful ideology.
And I am not sure where Paige falls, but she has apparently been hanging out with some people who definitely, vocally fall into the latter category. And well that's... troubling, to say the least.
you heard it here first, Wyborn is friends with MRAs / Nazis, and SilverWind refuses to handwaive it!
I can always count on you to find the jokes I considered making but felt were in too poor taste
We all just assumed, right?
stop negging me!!!!!