This looks decent! Handful of characters, single location, a concept that's... not terribly original, but at least it lets a lot of potential plot-holes self-correct.
I don’t think Chibnall has a very good grasp of distance, or space, or volume. Between the Flux location and the whole mass of the fleet vs the universe thing
It's the issue I have with the current season of STDisco.
Let's have a space based anomaly that travels between stars, but also slow enough you can see it travelling, and track it's movements in a way it's a threat, but not one you have to treat as imminent.
Space is BIG. If something can travel from planet to planet in a day, let alone stars, let alone galaxies, it's moving too fast for you to be able to do dick about.
I mean, if it was a mass spontaneous event, that's one thing. But in Disco it's a moving phenomenon, and in this, it's got an origin point. And it's dumb in both cases.
This looks decent! Handful of characters, single location, a concept that's... not terribly original, but at least it lets a lot of potential plot-holes self-correct.
Machine-gun Daleks. This is a man who is at a complete loss for original ideas.
Wiping out the Sontarans seems more morally dubious than wiping out Daleks and Cybermen. Daleks and Cybermen are unfeeling monsters. Sontarans are just a nation of sadistic assholes who like conquering people, similar to, say, the British Empire. They have emotions and stuff and aren't 100% evil (Strax).
I don't know if NuWho retconned this but Daleks are not unfeeling, they are organisms with a narrow range of emotions. (Usually hate.) You'll note they get very, irrationally excited about exterminating people for instance, they are not cold machines.
Baker even had a whole episode where he disobeyed the time lords and failed to genocide the Daleks at their origin. (didn't that start the time war in NuWho?) And even then, he let one of them trigger their electrified decimation via a trap because he couldn't bring himself to connect the wires.
Wiping out the Sontarans seems more morally dubious than wiping out Daleks and Cybermen. Daleks and Cybermen are unfeeling monsters. Sontarans are just a nation of sadistic assholes who like conquering people, similar to, say, the British Empire. They have emotions and stuff and aren't 100% evil (Strax).
I don't know if NuWho retconned this but Daleks are not unfeeling, they are organisms with a narrow range of emotions. (Usually hate.) You'll note they get very, irrationally excited about exterminating people for instance, they are not cold machines.
Baker even had a whole episode where he disobeyed the time lords and failed to genocide the Daleks at their origin. (didn't that start the time war in NuWho?) And even then, he let one of them trigger their electrified decimation via a trap because he couldn't bring himself to connect the wires.
It's kinda fandom canon that the events of Genesis of the Daleks were a first shot in the Time War, but NuWho never explicitly said so or referenced that episode in any way.
So what's next? Is it just the NYD special and then on to the next showrunner?
Cause I don't know how much more Chibnall Who I can watch. It broke the cardinal sin of being chaotic frenzy and boring as fuck.
I might have missed some plot points* because my brain just tuned out, and if I hadn't already had so much sunk cost in the franchise I would have noped out.
* though Bogart's missive earlier along with other posters meant I wasn't the only one to think it was disjointed and rambling.
Honestly, everything about this series sucked IMO, except the Mary Seacole part, and the snippets of Yaz, Dan and Jericho as Time Detectives.
If I ever rewatch the series, I'll probably skip the entirety of this run. Whitaker deserved better, but there's only three or four episodes total (of 28) that were "good", another three or four as "adequate" and the rest crap.
Literally everything surrounding Time is something I did not understand from the episode. I acknowledge part of the problem here is the higher education science study I have done so ideas like TIME AND SPACE ARE AT WAR is just lols to begin with.
But while Swarm/Azure spent a long time talking about Time, I never really clocked that there is some sort of anthropomorphic Time that is being held in check, and even seeing it at the end didn't really jive that for me. And the Ravage's dialogue was so full of bits of random pseudo philosophical declarations and then moustache twirling, it was hard for me to get any signal from the noise.
Even seeing Chibnall describe this, and kinda being able to see it, I'm still here asking:
There's a planet called Time which the Temple of Atropos is on.
There's a being called Time contained in that Temple, presumably(???) held in check by the Mouri.
There's the actual force of Time which the TARDIS has some sort of interaction with, and is blue/purple sand, and is distinct from the Flux, but erases people from time if it touches them. Whether this is part and parcel of the Time being I'm not quite sure.
There's the dimension Time which is the more scientific version of time and the TARDIS travels through it.
Are these all supposed to be the same thing? And where on earth did this idea that Time and Space are fighting come from? Is there going to be an anthropomorphic Space being we meet in the next three episodes too?
It was already difficult to understand the metaphysics here from what we've been given, so having it also complicated by the Doctor's big mystery about her past, and the mystery of Swarm/Azure/Tecteun really did not help things.
Literally everything surrounding Time is something I did not understand from the episode. I acknowledge part of the problem here is the higher education science study I have done so ideas like TIME AND SPACE ARE AT WAR is just lols to begin with.
But while Swarm/Azure spent a long time talking about Time, I never really clocked that there is some sort of anthropomorphic Time that is being held in check, and even seeing it at the end didn't really jive that for me. And the Ravage's dialogue was so full of bits of random pseudo philosophical declarations and then moustache twirling, it was hard for me to get any signal from the noise.
Even seeing Chibnall describe this, and kinda being able to see it, I'm still here asking:
There's a planet called Time which the Temple of Atropos is on.
There's a being called Time contained in that Temple, presumably(???) held in check by the Mouri.
There's the actual force of Time which the TARDIS has some sort of interaction with, and is blue/purple sand, and is distinct from the Flux, but erases people from time if it touches them. Whether this is part and parcel of the Time being I'm not quite sure.
There's the dimension Time which is the more scientific version of time and the TARDIS travels through it.
Are these all supposed to be the same thing? And where on earth did this idea that Time and Space are fighting come from? Is there going to be an anthropomorphic Space being we meet in the next three episodes too?
It was already difficult to understand the metaphysics here from what we've been given, so having it also complicated by the Doctor's big mystery about her past, and the mystery of Swarm/Azure/Tecteun really did not help things.
Maybe it was a misreading of the script, and it’s thyme and spice that are at war.
Literally everything surrounding Time is something I did not understand from the episode. I acknowledge part of the problem here is the higher education science study I have done so ideas like TIME AND SPACE ARE AT WAR is just lols to begin with.
But while Swarm/Azure spent a long time talking about Time, I never really clocked that there is some sort of anthropomorphic Time that is being held in check, and even seeing it at the end didn't really jive that for me. And the Ravage's dialogue was so full of bits of random pseudo philosophical declarations and then moustache twirling, it was hard for me to get any signal from the noise.
Even seeing Chibnall describe this, and kinda being able to see it, I'm still here asking:
There's a planet called Time which the Temple of Atropos is on.
There's a being called Time contained in that Temple, presumably(???) held in check by the Mouri.
There's the actual force of Time which the TARDIS has some sort of interaction with, and is blue/purple sand, and is distinct from the Flux, but erases people from time if it touches them. Whether this is part and parcel of the Time being I'm not quite sure.
There's the dimension Time which is the more scientific version of time and the TARDIS travels through it.
Are these all supposed to be the same thing? And where on earth did this idea that Time and Space are fighting come from? Is there going to be an anthropomorphic Space being we meet in the next three episodes too?
It was already difficult to understand the metaphysics here from what we've been given, so having it also complicated by the Doctor's big mystery about her past, and the mystery of Swarm/Azure/Tecteun really did not help things.
Maybe it was a misreading of the script, and it’s thyme and spice that are at war.
It’s not secret regenerations after all. It’s herbs and spices
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
Still hanging on to a shred of hope that the Master is really the Timeless Child. A once-innocent being, tortured and exploited by the Time Lords for millions of years, all those mind-wipes never quite erasing a gradually deepening mental scar, a sourceless feeling that he hates the Time Lords, he hates everything they touch, and everything they touch is everything there is.
Then this would create clear parallels between Gallifrey and the modern world, so much of which is built on the legacies of people that were flawed at best and monsters at worst, and how often we are too ashamed to look these truths in the eye.
Imagine if the Fugitive Doctor was actually the Fugitive Master, a distant past incarnation that was still basically a good person (bit of an awkward moment for people who've already had their tattoos updated).
Imagine if the Doctor finally cracked that fob watch open and all those memories flew right past her and into the Master, giving him instant access to millions of years of Time Lord secrets and skills. And then the Doctor and the Fugitive had to team up to stop him, but also to save him, because even a gigantic Time Lord brain isn't supposed to hold that many memories at once and he will literally disintegrate if he isn't stopped. Ah, I can dream.
Nah, if it's still Chibnall at the helm, I expect he'll have it that the Master IS the Doctor.
That every incarnation we've seen of the Master is just a future incarnation of the Doctor, and that there's a mental snap mentioned (but never specified, maybe the Fugitive is the last before the flip), and that's the reason why the Master hasn't killed the Doctor yet.
My theory is based on thinking of the most stupid thing that shits on the Who franchise, to leave for the new guy to clean up. Because that appears to be the Chibnall signature.
It's like the tree falling philosophy. It It solar system is destroyed, and it's not mentioned again and it's restored with no explanation, was it really destroyed?
I doubt it is ever addressed, and the sun, moon, and other planets are back as if nothing ever happened.
And if it is addressed, it'll be a throwaway line. No way they devote serious time to an explanation, let alone actively have to fix it.
Side note tangent, is it just me, or does the shape of the Cyberman eyes make it look like they're crying? Just can't not see it.
Nah, if it's still Chibnall at the helm, I expect he'll have it that the Master IS the Doctor.
That every incarnation we've seen of the Master is just a future incarnation of the Doctor, and that there's a mental snap mentioned (but never specified, maybe the Fugitive is the last before the flip), and that's the reason why the Master hasn't killed the Doctor yet.
My theory is based on thinking of the most stupid thing that shits on the Who franchise, to leave for the new guy to clean up. Because that appears to be the Chibnall signature.
Why stop there - all Time Lords are the Doctor, but at 2000 year intervals
Yes, including Tecteun
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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Still hanging on to a shred of hope that the Master is really the Timeless Child. A once-innocent being, tortured and exploited by the Time Lords for millions of years, all those mind-wipes never quite erasing a gradually deepening mental scar, a sourceless feeling that he hates the Time Lords, he hates everything they touch, and everything they touch is everything there is.
I still can't believe that's not the hook he went for, not only is it more interesting from a story perspective but you also get to do all the dumb MGS Liquid Snake memes as well.
The Master would totally "Live on....though this ARM!"
Making the Master the Timeless Child makes infinitely more sensethan the Doctor, not that his endless returns from even things a Time Lord couldn't regenerate from needed explaining, but being the source of regeneration would certainly do it.
"And it was all a dream" would be a really great ending at this point.
"And we shall never speak of it again"
I mean, Doctors never speak of what happened to their previous regenerations, aside from an occasional passing reference or joke. So RTD just ignoring and never mentioning what Chibnall did save for making occasional gender references would actually be on brand.
Nah, if it's still Chibnall at the helm, I expect he'll have it that the Master IS the Doctor.
That every incarnation we've seen of the Master is just a future incarnation of the Doctor, and that there's a mental snap mentioned (but never specified, maybe the Fugitive is the last before the flip), and that's the reason why the Master hasn't killed the Doctor yet.
My theory is based on thinking of the most stupid thing that shits on the Who franchise, to leave for the new guy to clean up. Because that appears to be the Chibnall signature.
Why stop there - all Time Lords are the Doctor, but at 2000 year intervals
The Cybus Cybermen were pretty disturbing. Cutting out people's brains.
I wondered if they were inspired by Mondas Cybermen. Like they found Cyberman technology.
I’m sort of assuming the (Mondas) Cyberman invasion happened but wasn’t driven off by a lone Time Lord and his plucky Companions so the world’s militaries had to figure it out themselves which generally ended up leaving a lot more broken cybermen and converted drones all over the place.
Cybus was one of the leading companies that took it upon themselves to investigate the shiny alien tech for fun and profit; in this case they went after the cyber conversion stuff so they could a) generate massive goodwill (and public funding) by promising to “free” the surviving converted and b) generate even more revenue off the medical advances inherent in that.
I remembered something I liked from the last couple of episodes!
Not sure which episode it was, but there was a scene in space that opened with the year in the corner of the screen, and then a spaceship warp-jumped in and wiped the number off as it arrived.
I thought it started strongly, and kind of lost me towards the end
Did I miss why the plan apparently needed to be completed by midnight? Seems like when the Daleks shot themselves, they'd basically fixed the time loop in the same way that they eventually did; why can't the Daleks just send more once the building explodes? And it never showed them getting to midnight in the other time loops, so how did the Doctor know that it was important to get stuff done by then?
Also Yas fancying the Doctor seems unearned and just a way to get her out of the show like with Martha
One thing's for sure, though: Aisling Bea continues to be a delight
I thought it started strongly, and kind of lost me towards the end
Did I miss why the plan apparently needed to be completed by midnight? Seems like when the Daleks shot themselves, they'd basically fixed the time loop in the same way that they eventually did; why can't the Daleks just send more once the building explodes? And it never showed them getting to midnight in the other time loops, so how did the Doctor know that it was important to get stuff done by then?
Also Yas fancying the Doctor seems unearned and just a way to get her out of the show like with Martha
One thing's for sure, though: Aisling Bea continues to be a delight
Agree with basically all of this. Largely enjoyable and strong start. The resolution was rushed, though. And the whole Yas/Doctor thing has always struck me as entirely unearned since we've never seen Thirteen actually bond with her companions properly enough; to the point where I can barely believe they're friends, sometimes.
As a non-UK person who's never seen Aisling Bea before, she was great. And has a more believable personality than Yas and Dan both.
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
The old Doctor Whos are kind of like plays. It is the way that they are filmed. There is also a different look if filmed outside compared to inside.
The latter in particular is super obvious on a lot of old British shows of that era. Dad's Army is another one where I always notice a hugely different look the moment they're off an indoor set and out on an outside location shoot.
The old Doctor Whos are kind of like plays. It is the way that they are filmed. There is also a different look if filmed outside compared to inside.
The latter in particular is super obvious on a lot of old British shows of that era. Dad's Army is another one where I always notice a hugely different look the moment they're off an indoor set and out on an outside location shoot.
BBC used film outdoors (24fps w/film grain) and video indoors (29.9~ fps w/no grain). Literally different cameras and recording media.
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This looks decent! Handful of characters, single location, a concept that's... not terribly original, but at least it lets a lot of potential plot-holes self-correct.
It's the issue I have with the current season of STDisco.
Let's have a space based anomaly that travels between stars, but also slow enough you can see it travelling, and track it's movements in a way it's a threat, but not one you have to treat as imminent.
Space is BIG. If something can travel from planet to planet in a day, let alone stars, let alone galaxies, it's moving too fast for you to be able to do dick about.
I mean, if it was a mass spontaneous event, that's one thing. But in Disco it's a moving phenomenon, and in this, it's got an origin point. And it's dumb in both cases.
I'm at a loss for words.
Machine-gun Daleks. This is a man who is at a complete loss for original ideas.
I don't know if NuWho retconned this but Daleks are not unfeeling, they are organisms with a narrow range of emotions. (Usually hate.) You'll note they get very, irrationally excited about exterminating people for instance, they are not cold machines.
Baker even had a whole episode where he disobeyed the time lords and failed to genocide the Daleks at their origin. (didn't that start the time war in NuWho?) And even then, he let one of them trigger their electrified decimation via a trap because he couldn't bring himself to connect the wires.
It's kinda fandom canon that the events of Genesis of the Daleks were a first shot in the Time War, but NuWho never explicitly said so or referenced that episode in any way.
Cause I don't know how much more Chibnall Who I can watch. It broke the cardinal sin of being chaotic frenzy and boring as fuck.
I might have missed some plot points* because my brain just tuned out, and if I hadn't already had so much sunk cost in the franchise I would have noped out.
* though Bogart's missive earlier along with other posters meant I wasn't the only one to think it was disjointed and rambling.
Honestly, everything about this series sucked IMO, except the Mary Seacole part, and the snippets of Yaz, Dan and Jericho as Time Detectives.
If I ever rewatch the series, I'll probably skip the entirety of this run. Whitaker deserved better, but there's only three or four episodes total (of 28) that were "good", another three or four as "adequate" and the rest crap.
But while Swarm/Azure spent a long time talking about Time, I never really clocked that there is some sort of anthropomorphic Time that is being held in check, and even seeing it at the end didn't really jive that for me. And the Ravage's dialogue was so full of bits of random pseudo philosophical declarations and then moustache twirling, it was hard for me to get any signal from the noise.
Even seeing Chibnall describe this, and kinda being able to see it, I'm still here asking:
There's a planet called Time which the Temple of Atropos is on.
There's a being called Time contained in that Temple, presumably(???) held in check by the Mouri.
There's the actual force of Time which the TARDIS has some sort of interaction with, and is blue/purple sand, and is distinct from the Flux, but erases people from time if it touches them. Whether this is part and parcel of the Time being I'm not quite sure.
There's the dimension Time which is the more scientific version of time and the TARDIS travels through it.
Are these all supposed to be the same thing? And where on earth did this idea that Time and Space are fighting come from? Is there going to be an anthropomorphic Space being we meet in the next three episodes too?
It was already difficult to understand the metaphysics here from what we've been given, so having it also complicated by the Doctor's big mystery about her past, and the mystery of Swarm/Azure/Tecteun really did not help things.
Might just read the Wiki plots unless the reaction here has it wildly exceeding expectations. Just done with this whole experience.
"And we shall never speak of it again"
Then this would create clear parallels between Gallifrey and the modern world, so much of which is built on the legacies of people that were flawed at best and monsters at worst, and how often we are too ashamed to look these truths in the eye.
Imagine if the Fugitive Doctor was actually the Fugitive Master, a distant past incarnation that was still basically a good person (bit of an awkward moment for people who've already had their tattoos updated).
Imagine if the Doctor finally cracked that fob watch open and all those memories flew right past her and into the Master, giving him instant access to millions of years of Time Lord secrets and skills. And then the Doctor and the Fugitive had to team up to stop him, but also to save him, because even a gigantic Time Lord brain isn't supposed to hold that many memories at once and he will literally disintegrate if he isn't stopped. Ah, I can dream.
That every incarnation we've seen of the Master is just a future incarnation of the Doctor, and that there's a mental snap mentioned (but never specified, maybe the Fugitive is the last before the flip), and that's the reason why the Master hasn't killed the Doctor yet.
My theory is based on thinking of the most stupid thing that shits on the Who franchise, to leave for the new guy to clean up. Because that appears to be the Chibnall signature.
But did he?
It's like the tree falling philosophy. It It solar system is destroyed, and it's not mentioned again and it's restored with no explanation, was it really destroyed?
I doubt it is ever addressed, and the sun, moon, and other planets are back as if nothing ever happened.
And if it is addressed, it'll be a throwaway line. No way they devote serious time to an explanation, let alone actively have to fix it.
Side note tangent, is it just me, or does the shape of the Cyberman eyes make it look like they're crying? Just can't not see it.
Why stop there - all Time Lords are the Doctor, but at 2000 year intervals
Yes, including Tecteun
I still can't believe that's not the hook he went for, not only is it more interesting from a story perspective but you also get to do all the dumb MGS Liquid Snake memes as well.
The Master would totally "Live on....though this ARM!"
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Because it's stupid and makes no sense and would throw a spanner into the works for the next guy?
You're not selling me that Chibnall won't do it.
I mean, Doctors never speak of what happened to their previous regenerations, aside from an occasional passing reference or joke. So RTD just ignoring and never mentioning what Chibnall did save for making occasional gender references would actually be on brand.
Yes, it’s an intentional design choice added during the RTD reboot of them.
It's the Doctor's universe, we just live in it
I wondered if they were inspired by Mondas Cybermen. Like they found Cyberman technology.
I’m sort of assuming the (Mondas) Cyberman invasion happened but wasn’t driven off by a lone Time Lord and his plucky Companions so the world’s militaries had to figure it out themselves which generally ended up leaving a lot more broken cybermen and converted drones all over the place.
Cybus was one of the leading companies that took it upon themselves to investigate the shiny alien tech for fun and profit; in this case they went after the cyber conversion stuff so they could a) generate massive goodwill (and public funding) by promising to “free” the surviving converted and b) generate even more revenue off the medical advances inherent in that.
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Not sure which episode it was, but there was a scene in space that opened with the year in the corner of the screen, and then a spaceship warp-jumped in and wiped the number off as it arrived.
That was really cool.
I thought it started strongly, and kind of lost me towards the end
Also Yas fancying the Doctor seems unearned and just a way to get her out of the show like with Martha
One thing's for sure, though: Aisling Bea continues to be a delight
As a non-UK person who's never seen Aisling Bea before, she was great. And has a more believable personality than Yas and Dan both.
The latter in particular is super obvious on a lot of old British shows of that era. Dad's Army is another one where I always notice a hugely different look the moment they're off an indoor set and out on an outside location shoot.
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It’s about the only part of current Who that is consistent
Gatling gun Daleks were like a bit of a downgrade tho. Them lasers seemed piss weak.
Also lol, they're definitely never addressing the entire universe getting wiped out.