And let's not forget SNK and the King of Fighters series, along with SNK's other great 2D properties.
I'm not sure if SNK is doing much to push the genre forward these days. Save for a few minor tweaks and different rosters, King of Fighters has remained pretty much untouched for a few years now. Even Maximum Impact is effectively the same as the 2D versions. Admittedly, I've never been fond of the KOF games, so I'm probably being a little bit unfair - but still: they're hardly shaking things up to any great extent.
With KoF, SNK has basically gotten their formula down. Every year has some new changes and characters, but it keeps the core gameplay the same. Yeah, it's not ground-breaking, but they keep releasing good 2D fighters that please their fanbase. They may not bring in too many new fans, but they're keeping their old ones and releasing quality titles.
With KoF, SNK has basically gotten their formula down. Every year has some new changes and characters, but it keeps the core gameplay the same. Yeah, it's not ground-breaking, but they keep releasing good 2D fighters that please their fanbase. They may not bring in too many new fans, but they're keeping their old ones and releasing quality titles.
Question is: how long can they keep doing that for? If each new instalment is effectively the same as the one that came before, then where's the impetus to upgrade?
With KoF, SNK has basically gotten their formula down. Every year has some new changes and characters, but it keeps the core gameplay the same. Yeah, it's not ground-breaking, but they keep releasing good 2D fighters that please their fanbase. They may not bring in too many new fans, but they're keeping their old ones and releasing quality titles.
Question is: how long can they keep doing that for? If each new instalment is effectively the same as the one that came before, then where's the impetus to upgrade?
Well, you can either gradually improve the gameplay like they've been doing, or you can try and make drastic changes. Drastic changes gave us Street Fighter EX, so let's hope SNK continues with a steady upward slope.
Wouldn't Street Fighter 4 sell really well to the same people who buy Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter and Tekken?
Despite its age, the game still has a huge following, and people would buy it as a direct to console adaptation.
The people who buy Dead or Alive (and Mortal Kombat) are different than the people who buy Tekken and Virtua Fighter, and they're all different than the people who would probably be interested in Street Fighter 4.
When I say "different" i mean that they are looking for different things in their fighting games.
The people that would most be interested in SF4 would probably be 2D fighting fans and fans of SF3. that would be my guess. On top of that, maybe a few people would be interested in it for nostalgic reasons.. but I really think it boils down to 2D fighting fans and Street Fighter fans. The "huge following" of SFIII is really just the niche hardcore fighting audience. It's not actually huge, it's just huge for a game that's been out for so incredibly long.
I mean, love SF and its iterations, but I can't much stand tekken or VF or DOA. And likewise, I know a lot of people who love the 3D fighters and their "awesome graphics" that probably wouldn't be at all interested in the "tired, 2D Street Fighter games."
I'm horrible at fighting games, but I actually enjoyed both Tekken and SF3: Alpha max on my PSP, and play them more than most of my other games. Since I typically only play on PC, I don't get to see/play many fighting games, ever. I always figured Street Fighter was one of those gigantic brand names that everyone knew about, and a new game would be something people would naturally add to their library, like other must-have hits.
Third Strike being the best street fighter ever sold like ass. This idea has been said over and over.
Street Fighter is most likely not coming back and I'm fine with that. There's a reason these guys don't ake new versions. Shit, look at Guilty Gear. How long have we been on XX?
I really want a version of Street Fighter III for Wii. This new SFII version would be sweet, too. The only time I feel burned by my decision to go with Wii is when it comes to fighting games. Smash Bros. will be great, but it's not the same. I wish I could afford to go Wii60.
if the Soul Calibur Spin-off sells well, expect a SC4 on wii.
Wasn't the Marvel vs. Capcom series even more popular than SFIII? Rival Schools/Project Justice felt like a 3d version of that game, and I don't know why that series never really took off here.
It's still my favorite 3d fighter ever. The combinations you can do in that game are sick.
It's the only fighting game I've played where I actually wanted to learn how to do aerial combos, because they work beautifully in Rival Schools.
Yeah, but we all know that the problem with online is lag, which is random and hard to factor in. MK supposedly "fixed" this with their dial-a-combo system but would that work with Street Fighter? Probably not.
Well, that and assholes dropping from the match when they're losing.
There's really not that much you need to transfer in a 2D fighting game, and these days internet connections are getting faster (that is to say more people are being equipped with faster connections).
Drop offs are problems but I figure that matches are fast and it's easy to find someone to fight, and if a system is in place that records the number of drops a person makes it'll be hard to keep dropping and finding someone to fight.
So all in all multilayer is the key. 3D would be fun but the game play has to be pretty much the same as the 2D games. Rival Schools 2 did an ok job with it, but it needs to be taken even further.
And let's not forget SNK and the King of Fighters series, along with SNK's other great 2D properties.
I'm not sure if SNK is doing much to push the genre forward these days. Save for a few minor tweaks and different rosters, King of Fighters has remained pretty much untouched for a few years now. Even Maximum Impact is effectively the same as the 2D versions. Admittedly, I've never been fond of the KOF games, so I'm probably being a little bit unfair - but still: they're hardly shaking things up to any great extent.
I'll agree that the most recent 2D KOFs haven't been doing much in terms of 2d fighter innovation lately; KOF NeoWave was basically a reiteration of KOF 2002, and KOF XI was basically a reiteration of KOF2003.
However, Maximum Impact may have played like a 2D fighter, but it is vastly different from the 2D KOF games, and may even be closer to a Real Bout Fatal Fury. I'm personally quite glad that KOF MI plays different than the 2D kofs, or else, why would they have bothered? It may be a little less deep (although there's still plenty of depth), but it's a lot of fun.
I really want a version of Street Fighter III for Wii. This new SFII version would be sweet, too. The only time I feel burned by my decision to go with Wii is when it comes to fighting games. Smash Bros. will be great, but it's not the same. I wish I could afford to go Wii60.
Well, the Wii just came out, but we have good evidence that 2D fighting will be around on the Wii. First of all, Guilty Gear Accent Core was announced for the Wii. With the publishing costs as high as they are for the 360/PS3, the Wii represents a reasonable alternative to publishing this type of game. Secondly, SNK has come out and said that due to publishing costs and installed base issues, they don't plan on releasing a PS3 game until 2009; meanwhile, they've already published a Wii game, and it's likely we'll see their newer games come out for the system. Furthermore, they've also said that they'll be releasing NeoGeo games on either the Shop Channel or Virtual Console, so there's that option as well.
It'll be interesting to see if most 2D fighters end up on XBLA/PSN/VC/Shop Channel or if they'll continue to thrive on the PS2+Wii.
Wasn't the Marvel vs. Capcom series even more popular than SFIII? Rival Schools/Project Justice felt like a 3d version of that game, and I don't know why that series never really took off here.
I think we have finally reached the point where 3D graphics on the home consoles can have as much detail as hand drawn 2D and Capcom would be wise to take advantage of this opportunity.
MVC2 was huge when it came out, yes, so it was probably 'bigger' than SF3 when it came out.
Is MVC and MVC2 more popular than SFIII today? I would say no, although they're pretty close. As far as competition goes, SFIII still continues to be a major game in most tournaments. So I would say that the SF3 following is still more active and enthused than the MVC2 crowd. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that the MVC2 following has been starting to dwindle a lot in the past 2 years or so, for whatever reason.
And let's not forget SNK and the King of Fighters series, along with SNK's other great 2D properties.
I'm not sure if SNK is doing much to push the genre forward these days. Save for a few minor tweaks and different rosters, King of Fighters has remained pretty much untouched for a few years now. Even Maximum Impact is effectively the same as the 2D versions. Admittedly, I've never been fond of the KOF games, so I'm probably being a little bit unfair - but still: they're hardly shaking things up to any great extent.
With KoF, SNK has basically gotten their formula down. Every year has some new changes and characters, but it keeps the core gameplay the same. Yeah, it's not ground-breaking, but they keep releasing good 2D fighters that please their fanbase. They may not bring in too many new fans, but they're keeping their old ones and releasing quality titles.
Pretty much -- SNK is not going to make any HUGE changes to the 2D KOF gameplay. They have created the 3D KOF games for exactly that purpose. The reason for this is because they don't want to alienate their biggest fanbase for the 2D KOF games, so they want to retain a similar feel and gameplay in the 2D KOFs; thus, they have started to make the 'official' KOF series a roman numeral named 2D fighting series. With the 3D games, they are trying out new gameplay styles and are trying to bring in new fans, but keep it fresh and give regular KOF/SNK fans something else to try out.
Basically, it would cause a lot of problems for SNK if they made huge changes to the 2d KOF games at this point. Their major fanbase just doesn't want it.
So that brings us to what mystic said; yeah, they keep making small changes and roster changes and keep the core gameplay the same, and keep releasing great 2d fighters in a world with fewer and fewer of them, and they please their fanbase with quality titles. On top of that, they try different things with the 3D kofs to keep things fresh and to appeal to hopefully more people, without pissing off their hardcore 2d fanbase.
I'll say 1 thing about KOF core gameplay, though; right now, there seems to be 2 primary 'strains' of it. One, there's the KOF98/2002/Neowave strain. This is SNK's more technical, slightly slower paced, and perhaps slightly deeper and more tournament-oriented type of KOF gameplay. 3 person teams, 1 person at a time. Deep fighting systems and very technical combo systems. The second 'strain' of the gameplay is the KOF 03/KOF XI type of gameplay. This is faster paced and possibly more combo heavy and maybe less strictly technical gameplay. 3 on 3 teams with in-match character switching. Easier moves, easier cancels, longer possibilities for crazy combos.
Both are great implementations of KOF core gameplay, and the KOF fans tend to love both, but everyone has their favorite. If you want a great way to experience both types of gameplay, get the PS2/Xbox King of Fighters 02/03 combo pack.
With KoF, SNK has basically gotten their formula down. Every year has some new changes and characters, but it keeps the core gameplay the same. Yeah, it's not ground-breaking, but they keep releasing good 2D fighters that please their fanbase. They may not bring in too many new fans, but they're keeping their old ones and releasing quality titles.
Question is: how long can they keep doing that for? If each new instalment is effectively the same as the one that came before, then where's the impetus to upgrade?
Well, like I said, they've created 3d KOFs for the purpose of experimentation and they also have at least 2 core types of gameplay to toy with in each iteration of KOF. The newest type is the 03/XI type, and they'll probably make big gameplay additions to that with each iteration for a while. We'll see.
I'm horrible at fighting games, but I actually enjoyed both Tekken and SF3: Alpha max on my PSP, and play them more than most of my other games. Since I typically only play on PC, I don't get to see/play many fighting games, ever. I always figured Street Fighter was one of those gigantic brand names that everyone knew about, and a new game would be something people would naturally add to their library, like other must-have hits.
:^: Glad to hear you can enjoy some good fighters on your PSP. But as for Street Fighter, it's name just doesn't have the impact that you're thinking of. When SFIII came out, not that many people cared since the flashy new 3D fighting games were starting to take hold; and that's considered to be one of the best 2d fighters ever by the fighting game community. It's almost as if SFIII came out right at the dawn of the mainstream gamers' desire for 3D fighting games over 2D ones.
As far as the whole 'online in 2D fighters' thing, well, I have to say that eventually this will be implemented well and will be a staple of 2d fighters on consoles. Has it been done before? Yes, but to limited success. In JPN, it's pretty big, because everyone there has awesome internet connections. I guess we'll just have to wait. But I still think it's the next big step for 2d fighters in other parts of the world. We just haven't seen a great implementation of it yet where people (as in everyone) don't have 6 mb/s internet connections.
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Depends on the territory, I think. As as I know, SFIII is more popular in Japan, but MvC2 rules in the US.
Question is: how long can they keep doing that for? If each new instalment is effectively the same as the one that came before, then where's the impetus to upgrade?
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I'm horrible at fighting games, but I actually enjoyed both Tekken and SF3: Alpha max on my PSP, and play them more than most of my other games. Since I typically only play on PC, I don't get to see/play many fighting games, ever. I always figured Street Fighter was one of those gigantic brand names that everyone knew about, and a new game would be something people would naturally add to their library, like other must-have hits.
Street Fighter is most likely not coming back and I'm fine with that. There's a reason these guys don't ake new versions. Shit, look at Guilty Gear. How long have we been on XX?
if the Soul Calibur Spin-off sells well, expect a SC4 on wii.
It's still my favorite 3d fighter ever. The combinations you can do in that game are sick.
It's the only fighting game I've played where I actually wanted to learn how to do aerial combos, because they work beautifully in Rival Schools.
Roy + Tiffany = slaughter.
There's really not that much you need to transfer in a 2D fighting game, and these days internet connections are getting faster (that is to say more people are being equipped with faster connections).
Drop offs are problems but I figure that matches are fast and it's easy to find someone to fight, and if a system is in place that records the number of drops a person makes it'll be hard to keep dropping and finding someone to fight.
So all in all multilayer is the key. 3D would be fun but the game play has to be pretty much the same as the 2D games. Rival Schools 2 did an ok job with it, but it needs to be taken even further.
I'll agree that the most recent 2D KOFs haven't been doing much in terms of 2d fighter innovation lately; KOF NeoWave was basically a reiteration of KOF 2002, and KOF XI was basically a reiteration of KOF2003.
However, Maximum Impact may have played like a 2D fighter, but it is vastly different from the 2D KOF games, and may even be closer to a Real Bout Fatal Fury. I'm personally quite glad that KOF MI plays different than the 2D kofs, or else, why would they have bothered? It may be a little less deep (although there's still plenty of depth), but it's a lot of fun.
Well, the Wii just came out, but we have good evidence that 2D fighting will be around on the Wii. First of all, Guilty Gear Accent Core was announced for the Wii. With the publishing costs as high as they are for the 360/PS3, the Wii represents a reasonable alternative to publishing this type of game. Secondly, SNK has come out and said that due to publishing costs and installed base issues, they don't plan on releasing a PS3 game until 2009; meanwhile, they've already published a Wii game, and it's likely we'll see their newer games come out for the system. Furthermore, they've also said that they'll be releasing NeoGeo games on either the Shop Channel or Virtual Console, so there's that option as well.
It'll be interesting to see if most 2D fighters end up on XBLA/PSN/VC/Shop Channel or if they'll continue to thrive on the PS2+Wii.
MVC2 was huge when it came out, yes, so it was probably 'bigger' than SF3 when it came out.
Is MVC and MVC2 more popular than SFIII today? I would say no, although they're pretty close. As far as competition goes, SFIII still continues to be a major game in most tournaments. So I would say that the SF3 following is still more active and enthused than the MVC2 crowd. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that the MVC2 following has been starting to dwindle a lot in the past 2 years or so, for whatever reason.
Pretty much -- SNK is not going to make any HUGE changes to the 2D KOF gameplay. They have created the 3D KOF games for exactly that purpose. The reason for this is because they don't want to alienate their biggest fanbase for the 2D KOF games, so they want to retain a similar feel and gameplay in the 2D KOFs; thus, they have started to make the 'official' KOF series a roman numeral named 2D fighting series. With the 3D games, they are trying out new gameplay styles and are trying to bring in new fans, but keep it fresh and give regular KOF/SNK fans something else to try out.
Basically, it would cause a lot of problems for SNK if they made huge changes to the 2d KOF games at this point. Their major fanbase just doesn't want it.
So that brings us to what mystic said; yeah, they keep making small changes and roster changes and keep the core gameplay the same, and keep releasing great 2d fighters in a world with fewer and fewer of them, and they please their fanbase with quality titles. On top of that, they try different things with the 3D kofs to keep things fresh and to appeal to hopefully more people, without pissing off their hardcore 2d fanbase.
I'll say 1 thing about KOF core gameplay, though; right now, there seems to be 2 primary 'strains' of it. One, there's the KOF98/2002/Neowave strain. This is SNK's more technical, slightly slower paced, and perhaps slightly deeper and more tournament-oriented type of KOF gameplay. 3 person teams, 1 person at a time. Deep fighting systems and very technical combo systems. The second 'strain' of the gameplay is the KOF 03/KOF XI type of gameplay. This is faster paced and possibly more combo heavy and maybe less strictly technical gameplay. 3 on 3 teams with in-match character switching. Easier moves, easier cancels, longer possibilities for crazy combos.
Both are great implementations of KOF core gameplay, and the KOF fans tend to love both, but everyone has their favorite. If you want a great way to experience both types of gameplay, get the PS2/Xbox King of Fighters 02/03 combo pack.
Well, like I said, they've created 3d KOFs for the purpose of experimentation and they also have at least 2 core types of gameplay to toy with in each iteration of KOF. The newest type is the 03/XI type, and they'll probably make big gameplay additions to that with each iteration for a while. We'll see.
:^: Glad to hear you can enjoy some good fighters on your PSP. But as for Street Fighter, it's name just doesn't have the impact that you're thinking of. When SFIII came out, not that many people cared since the flashy new 3D fighting games were starting to take hold; and that's considered to be one of the best 2d fighters ever by the fighting game community. It's almost as if SFIII came out right at the dawn of the mainstream gamers' desire for 3D fighting games over 2D ones.
As far as the whole 'online in 2D fighters' thing, well, I have to say that eventually this will be implemented well and will be a staple of 2d fighters on consoles. Has it been done before? Yes, but to limited success. In JPN, it's pretty big, because everyone there has awesome internet connections. I guess we'll just have to wait. But I still think it's the next big step for 2d fighters in other parts of the world. We just haven't seen a great implementation of it yet where people (as in everyone) don't have 6 mb/s internet connections.
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