The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
Please vote in the Forum Structure Poll. Polling will close at 2PM EST on January 21, 2025.
Black security guard apprehends shooter outside Illinois bar, then gets shot by police
Fiendishrabbit
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Black security guard who saved day after drunk customers open fire on bar was then shot dead by police
I previously said in the Synagogue shooting that that thread in particular wasn't the right place to discuss how police act, but I guess this thread is. I honestly did not expect such an occasion to arrive this quickly, but sometimes reality just loves to hit you in the face.
I guess there is just no fucking way for minorities to win. If they don't have armed security they "haven't taken the approriate precautions against an active shooter scenario", if they do that security gets shot by police officers. Police officers who upon arriving at the scene obviously only saw one thing "Armed black man", and nothing else.
The Independent wrote:A black security guard has been shot and killed by police just moments after stopping a drunken customer who had opened fire at a bar in Illinois.
The incident, in Robbins, Illinois, occurred at roughly 4 am on Sunday, after a security guard told drunken men to leave the premises. Witnesses said that someone then returned to the bar with a gun and begun shooting — leading security to return fire.
Before police arrived, 26-year-old security guard Jemel Roberson was able to apprehend one of the men outside of the bar, according to witnesses. An officer responding to a call about the gunshots then arrived and shot Roberson, killing him. “He had somebody on the ground with his knee in back, with his gun in his back like, ‘Don’t move,’” Adam Harris, a witness, told local media of the scenario that the officer would have arrived to see.
Witnesses said that multiple people were telling the officer that Roberson was a security guard.
“Everybody was screaming out, ‘He was a security guard,’” Mr Harris said. “And they basically saw a black man with a gun and killed him”.
The incident took place in a village southwest of Chicago, in Cook County. The sheriff’s department for the county has released little information about the incident, but have said Roberson had a valid firearms owners’ identification card. He did not, however, have a concealed carry permit, police said.
Four other individuals were injured during the incident, including the shooter, but none of those wounds are thought to be life-threatening.
“A Midlothian officer encountered a subject with a gun and was involved in an officer-involved shooting. The subject the officer shot was later pronounced deceased at an area hospital,” Daniel Delaney, the chief of the Midlothian Police Department, said in a statement posted on the department’s Facebook page. Roberson has been described as a musician who regularly played drums and keyboard at Chicago-area churches. He planned on becoming a police officer, friends told local media. “Every artist he’s ever played for every musician he’s ever sat beside, we’re all just broken because we have no answers,” Reverend Patricia Hill of Purposed Church said. “He was getting ready to train and do all that stuff, so the very people he wanted to be family with, took his life”.
A criminal investigation into the original shooting is being conducted by the Cook County Sheriff’s Office. The State Police public integrity task force is investigating the shooting of Roberson.
I previously said in the Synagogue shooting that that thread in particular wasn't the right place to discuss how police act, but I guess this thread is. I honestly did not expect such an occasion to arrive this quickly, but sometimes reality just loves to hit you in the face.
I guess there is just no fucking way for minorities to win. If they don't have armed security they "haven't taken the approriate precautions against an active shooter scenario", if they do that security gets shot by police officers. Police officers who upon arriving at the scene obviously only saw one thing "Armed black man", and nothing else.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
+61
Posts
There are two ways in which we can respect police.
We can give respect to police as the people who are prepared to risk their lives on a daily basis, who are ready willingly go into dangerous situations to try to help their fellow human beings. And that doesn’t mean we expect them to rush in blindly, without precautions, but it does mean that they are willing to try to talk first when presented with a potentially dangerous situation, even when there is some risk to that.
Alternatively, we can give police the same sort of respect that we give to an armed gang that controls the streets. That respect is one of fear. We can respect police the same way we would respect a bear or a venomous snake. And you certainly hope that you never startle them in the dark.
There is no avoiding that we need police. They’re a critical part of what keeps our society functioning and orderly. But how we view them is up to them.
This is like the distilled essence of america.
To the point that it feels hackish and overly obvious.
This goddamn passive language that police forces are masters at.
"An officer shot and killed a person" is what actually happened.
As the thread creator I think my answer would be:
1. Racism in the Police force? Yes. Including the way policing tactics and racism interact.
2. Corruption? Yes, if it provides context.
3. Gun legislation? Only as relevant/contextual. There are guns. They're not likely to go away, and given that police seem to interprete anything carried by a black person as a firearms... Well, we can't discuss it in depth unless it's highly relevant to police on black (or other minority) violence.
4. Other social topics? In order to provide context, otherwise no?
That would be my opinions though.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
This was literally about to be their “more guns” solution and then the police saw a black guy with a gun and did what cops do in that scenario.
It’s all about racism. The NRA, the American police culture, conservatism. It was never about the right to self-defense, it’s about racism.
And anybody who tries to handwave this shooting is going to bat for racism, consciously or otherwise.
Though I did read that the officer involved is a four-year veteran of the force.
Given that Robbins, Illinois, is 96% black I would assume that the drunken shooter was black. No information has been released on the officer other than that he was from the Midlothian police force. Midlothian is a primarily white/hispanic village, but that doesn't say much about its police department.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It'd be a hell of a thing if the security guard with far less training managed to do right, what police ended up rolling in and fucking up.
He did.
From what I understand, the security guard was the only one killed in the entire incident.
Yep. The security guards managed to take the original shooter alive. 4 people were injured, but Jemel Roberson was the only fatality. By the police.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
That's easy, this incident will never be discussed. No need to move the goal posts if any event that runs contra to your claim can just be ignored and incidentalized.
If protests start, it'll be covered.
But it'll be covered by bringing up some bullshit excuse for the cop and dragging out something from the security guards past in order to smear him and paint the protesters as lawless thugs.
You know, the American standard.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
This would only be relevant had they taken the time to ask that before shooting him, which they didn’t. It would appear they didn’t take the time to start any dialog.
I can’t wait for that to be the NRA groups talking point to this though.
Less clear in the original article is whether Jemel was open carrying or concealed carrying; I'm not a gun guy so I don't know what would be more usual for a security guard
Open carry isn't legal in Illinois, where this happened. Armed security is honestly pretty rare in the US. Legitimately armed, I mean. Besides armored car services, most security is more "observe and report" than stopping crimes, because the liability for the security companies is too high. Places that want actual armed security tend to hire moonlighting cops.
They'll just split the events in two. "See, a good guy with a gun stopped a shooter. The police response was an isolated incident/totally appropriate response based on what the officer saw at the scene. No, the two are unrelated, I don't know what you're talking about, la la la, I can't hear you."
Everywhere wants to hire cops. And firemen. Roughly 30% of my coworkers in Security (Going on year 5), have been active or retired PD or FD. Veterans are also a big draw.
And a lot of the companies want armed. Securitas and Allied Universal would love to swap entirely to armed positions. They get to charge more per hour. The insurance isn't a factor, since they've already got it. Securitas doesn't use armed guards at Subaru, for example, but they do at the IU Health Medical Office Building in Lafayette.
Big private places, like hospitals, IU Health for example, have a mix. The facilities in Indianapolis are all armed, whereas here in Lafayette and Frankfort hospitals, it is just a baton, cuffs, basic defensive and deescalation classes, and that's it.
(Ellison Barber is a Fox News reporter. Posting her tweet because she had the relevant quote from the NPR article already.)
So he's dressed AS a security guard, and still gets shot? Seems to me like the only thing police are paying attention to before acting is skin color.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Because what's best for the police is to shoot first and work out the victim-blaming later. I use the words "best for police" because what's best for the police is usually not what's best for anyone else involved in the situation.
In a better world, there wouldn't be a need to drive the fear of repercussions for their actions into our police forces in order for them to not act in manners that are only concerned about their own benefit, but it's become incredibly obvious that a lack of consequences for hasty and unnecessary usage of force, lethal and otherwise, has emboldened police to immediately utilize the most extreme responses to a situation rather than actually take the time to determine what sort of response would best diffuse the situation. Why bother trying to de-escalate a situation when that takes time and might require risk to yourself?
TL;DR If we want the police to stop shooting people so much, police need to start getting punished for it.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
But that charge won't stick because police have access to qualified immunity that's so broadly-defined that you need to basically get them on tape admitting they shot him on purpose and unnecessarily and even that wouldn't be a guarantee.
Police officers can claim that they thought there was an imminent threat to themselves or others, and that's enough. The reality of the situation literally doesn't matter.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
... did you just advocate for a security guard who had subdued a shooting suspect to run away from cops?
.... Actually, I'll take this a step further. Did you just advocate for a black man to run away from the scene of a crime?
Except in this scenario the security guard had the actual shooter restrained and was holding them at gunpoint
Also he was doing his job in that he was a security guard, running away doesn't seem reasonable given he had the guy subdued.
The police could simply not shoot people who aren't pointing a gun at them until they figure out what's going on
Yeah its not like he had his job printed on his clo....
This guy was only doing his job. Security is there to protect people, just like the cops are ostensibly supposed to.
He was wearing his security uniform, there is no fucking excuse. I’m sick of the onus for action being put on victims. The cops need to fix their shit, not the people we pay them to serve.
I did read from other armed security guards that their training is to immediately holster their gun once possible. But considering this guy had the shooter subdued purely because he had his gun trained on him, I'm not sure what else he should have done.
I fully understand this was a hectic scenario with the police entering what they thought was an active shooter situation. So sure, I get that they entered the room, saw a guy with a gun and assessed a threat. But that they immediately shot, without listening to everyone in the room and clearly before they even gave Jemel a chance to comply to orders means they shouldn't be allowed to be police officers anymore. This is 100% on them and they should be fired and (if not capable of being tried for murder) be subject to a severe civil criminal case.
Hell, the city should be able to be sued from this. Its clearly negligent at best and caused the loss of life of an actual hero.
Really police are not taught enough to deescalate period.
His job was to protect people. It is similar to the cop's job but he did his job well.