I must be the odd man out, because I like the torches and have gotten (slightly) more clears with them than the other weapons. Playing them feels a bit like Vampire Survivors, with me maintaining a safe distance from enemies and flooding the screen with flames, and there are upgrades that make the omega attack do very good, steady damage. However, I do find that clearing rooms and beating bosses is slower with the torches than with other weapons. Winning the competitions against Nemesis and Heracles with them is much tougher compared to when using harder-hitting weapons like the axe, for example. But they're a great "slow and steady wins the race" weapon, and being able to whittle down bosses while maintaining a safe distance has been a winning strategy for me.
Maybe I’m misremembering Hades 1, but I feel like there are more boons in Hades 2 that feel like must-haves where if I don’t get them my runs are just ineffective. I’ve had a few runs where I just hardly do any damage at all because all my boons were mediocre.
Also
does Chronos have different move sets for different runs? I feel like he does significantly different stuff every time I’ve reached him. Can’t tell if that’s real or just RNG where each encounter he’s just randomly spammed a different single attack a bunch of times.
Also also either I’m missing something or the axe is terrible.
Maybe I’m misremembering Hades 1, but I feel like there are more boons in Hades 2 that feel like must-haves where if I don’t get them my runs are just ineffective. I’ve had a few runs where I just hardly do any damage at all because all my boons were mediocre.
Also
does Chronos have different move sets for different runs? I feel like he does significantly different stuff every time I’ve reached him. Can’t tell if that’s real or just RNG where each encounter he’s just randomly spammed a different single attack a bunch of times.
He does. Bosses in both games change based on your overall progression. Most obvious in 1 when the Furies change, but, this is also happening more subtly in 2.
more obviously, the Sirens get at least one new song, and I imagine with updates they'll get more.
Bloody gods be damned Cerberus gets so many stupid new attack sequences and changes them up and THAT DOG GOD DAMN.
in other news I'm not sure I should identify so hard with [surface spoilers]
Icarus. But here I am, being like "oh. I burned my wings on the sun and then someone from a place I'd never even considered gave me the strength to fly again, at significant cost to themself" god damn
Also also either I’m missing something or the axe is terrible.
You're missing something. Axe is great. To use it effectively though you really have to lean into its full kit. For instance, drop a cast and dash back to snare things, then unload on them while they're trapped. The special comes out very fast, which gives you a powerful defensive option too.
Boon wise, Axe doesn't really like Hestia, Posiden or Zeus (exception - if you're going Charon axe, these all have great casts that play well. Theoretically you could do some stuff abusing normal specials with these three though). It loves Apollo - the range increase it's massive, and he's got an amazing legendary. can do really good work with Hera, Demeter, Aphrodite, Heph. Those is for attack/special boons, mind.
Big thing is learning that you can dash cancel with Axe. That is you can attack, dash, and kept the sequence going. The final hit in the attack combo is very damaging, but very high commitment - it may be worth ignoring, or only committing when you know your safe to.
Examples of dash cancels btw - Charge omega attack, dash, omega attack goes off at the end of the dash. Same with omega special. You can dash between the third and fourth attacks in the axe sequence as well.
Axe's omegas are interesting. They're not the highest dps, but they give you some crowd clear. Thanatos Axe really loves the whirlwind + Apollo, as it can stack crit chance very fast while shedding the entire room.
For aspects - Default axe just focuses on making things flow smoother. It's the all arounder. Charon let's your omega specials detonate your cast, setting it off like you'd charged your omega. Thanatos gives you stacking crit chance for every hit with an omega you land, up to a cap of 20%, but you loose it all if you take damage. You can hit some insane numbers with this.
It's a very good weapon, it's just a much more calculated playstle than the death of a thousand cuts that staff and dagger are. It also struggles badly vs the "enemies spawn with a shield" modifier, for obvious reasons.
Maybe I’m misremembering Hades 1, but I feel like there are more boons in Hades 2 that feel like must-haves where if I don’t get them my runs are just ineffective. I’ve had a few runs where I just hardly do any damage at all because all my boons were mediocre.
Also
does Chronos have different move sets for different runs? I feel like he does significantly different stuff every time I’ve reached him. Can’t tell if that’s real or just RNG where each encounter he’s just randomly spammed a different single attack a bunch of times.
He does. Bosses in both games change based on your overall progression. Most obvious in 1 when the Furies change, but, this is also happening more subtly in 2.
more obviously, the Sirens get at least one new song, and I imagine with updates they'll get more.
Bloody gods be damned Cerberus gets so many stupid new attack sequences and changes them up and THAT DOG GOD DAMN.
Well damn. I was a sliver of health away from beating him on my first encounter, but I had to pause because the baby was crying and then Chronos did some bullshit where he unpauses your game because he’s the god of time and isn’t that clever and then he killed me 🙄
And now the next four times I’ve reached him his moveset seems much more punishing and I can’t get him below 20% life.
What got me over the edge and beating chronos was focusing on adds first and making sure cast was always down either on him or in his direction. He isn't that dangerous at range, and once adds are gone he is much more readable.
But in general the fight needs something done to make it more clear what is happening. There are so many overlapping effects with similar colors happening that it's almost impossible to see at times.
My best runs against Chronos (were I was able to beat his 2nd phase as well), where all with the Scythe. Keep distance and use the Omega special (had the ability that did the Omega Special damage twice) both for the block and the ranged attack. No useful cast on the best run, but I did abuse the Moon Slow ability (it had a very short cooldown and it was perfect to reposition and charge an attack when a lot of nonsense was on the screen.
Maybe I’m misremembering Hades 1, but I feel like there are more boons in Hades 2 that feel like must-haves where if I don’t get them my runs are just ineffective. I’ve had a few runs where I just hardly do any damage at all because all my boons were mediocre.
Also
does Chronos have different move sets for different runs? I feel like he does significantly different stuff every time I’ve reached him. Can’t tell if that’s real or just RNG where each encounter he’s just randomly spammed a different single attack a bunch of times.
He does. Bosses in both games change based on your overall progression. Most obvious in 1 when the Furies change, but, this is also happening more subtly in 2.
more obviously, the Sirens get at least one new song, and I imagine with updates they'll get more.
Bloody gods be damned Cerberus gets so many stupid new attack sequences and changes them up and THAT DOG GOD DAMN.
Well damn. I was a sliver of health away from beating him on my first encounter, but I had to pause because the baby was crying and then Chronos did some bullshit where he unpauses your game because he’s the god of time and isn’t that clever and then he killed me 🙄
And now the next four times I’ve reached him his moveset seems much more punishing and I can’t get him below 20% life.
Yeah you can't pause when fighting Chronos ever. It's an annoying but neat little trick. I was super confused the first time I saw it too.
Maybe I’m misremembering Hades 1, but I feel like there are more boons in Hades 2 that feel like must-haves where if I don’t get them my runs are just ineffective. I’ve had a few runs where I just hardly do any damage at all because all my boons were mediocre.
Also
does Chronos have different move sets for different runs? I feel like he does significantly different stuff every time I’ve reached him. Can’t tell if that’s real or just RNG where each encounter he’s just randomly spammed a different single attack a bunch of times.
He does. Bosses in both games change based on your overall progression. Most obvious in 1 when the Furies change, but, this is also happening more subtly in 2.
more obviously, the Sirens get at least one new song, and I imagine with updates they'll get more.
Bloody gods be damned Cerberus gets so many stupid new attack sequences and changes them up and THAT DOG GOD DAMN.
Well damn. I was a sliver of health away from beating him on my first encounter, but I had to pause because the baby was crying and then Chronos did some bullshit where he unpauses your game because he’s the god of time and isn’t that clever and then he killed me 🙄
And now the next four times I’ve reached him his moveset seems much more punishing and I can’t get him below 20% life.
Yeah you can't pause when fighting Chronos ever. It's an annoying but neat little trick. I was super confused the first time I saw it too.
Incorrect - You unlock an incantation that allows you to pause vs him, but it requires beating him at least once. (it's very funny because he complains about you pausing, and the fact he can't undo it)
@Talka beyond the above advice I post for Axing, one tip for the final boss:
Abuse your cast.
It neuters his dash attack dramatically, cutting it's range by something crazy like 80%. Given it's probably the single most dangerous move in his arsenal and he likes to spam it... This makes things a chunk easier.
Also fwiw, i didn't get a clear on Chronos until night 42ish. Now i can punk his arse pretty reliably, and have done so even on Fear 8 so far.
In other news. Put me on the flames train too. I actually quite enjoy them. The skulls are my least favorite so far but I see a ton of potential in them too with a bit of tweaking.
Had a REALLY good run against Chronos with the axe and actually chonked his second phase down to half health. And this was *without* God Mode; I started turning it off so I can get better at dodging.
My only problem with the axe right now is if I dash-cancel the shield omega, it fires in the direction I then *start* dashing in again. Example: I'm aiming it at a boss, I try to dodge away from the boss, it now fires *away* from the boss. I would much rather drop it and have it fire where I *was* facing when it goes off!
Do you ever think of something that would be really cool and get sad that it won't happen in these kinds of early access scenarios? I've seen people arguing over what the last weapon should be in various places. Most everyone agrees it should not be a sword.
I do, too.
I just want it because I would like it to be a macuahuitl.
Cyclops kicked my ass a few times, but I finally figured him out and he now he hardly ever lands a hit on me… my first few attempts failed since the damage box of his expanding ring attack seems to be bigger than what the graphic suggests. Once I started factoring that in he became pretty easy.
The ships also seem weirdly easy? Like, easier than the preceding areas. Very short segments, with few enemies with little health. Strange. Maybe I’ve just had good weapon/boon/enemy combo luck the few times I’ve run through it.
Eris kicked my ass on my one attempt on her so far. Thought I was doing well against her but finally mistimed something when she was down to ~20% and she depleted a full health bar in a fraction of a second. Got shook after that and lost my second life immediately afterwards.
Also I continue to struggle with getting bad boons for my preferred play style for a given weapon… I like attacking with the staff and specials with the flames, so inevitably I never get any attack boons for the staff or special boons for the flames 🙄
I think my current goals are going to be to top everyone up on nectar, upgrade the fishing rod, upgrade my pets, and unlock more Arcana. I'll probably get to a point fairly soon where I'll be bored and take a nice long pause until the next big update.
Beat the surface on night 41, and the underworld on night 43! Could've gotten it ~30 nights, except I spent 10+ nights unsuccessfully throwing myself at the surface trying to find reagents before I completed the incantation that protects you from surface damage.
Both wins were with basically the same build: staff, focusing on specials with blitz damage and chain lightning. I'm surprised that ended up working... I never felt particularly powerful. But I made it to Eris and Chronos with all my Death Defiances, and then the specials' range in those final boss fights was more important than I expected.
I still want to get good at the other weapons... the axe in particular is fun to play. But I think with these two wins and the game's early access status, I'm gonna put this down for a while and come back when there's more content.
I had an amazing run with the Eos torches. I took the vow that makes you start each room with 0 mp, picked up the Zeus chain lightning, under 10mp room wide lightning every 5s, and basically just held down attack the entire time to stay at 0 mp and picked up other boons to support it. I didn't use cast or special at all until Chronos, and even then I just used non omega casts to block his dash attack.
Debating slowing down because I'm clearly getting to the end of the content I actually care about (story/characters). But I could max out allll them heart bars before the next content drops... maybe......
(... and hopefully didn't fry my savegames. I had a couple of crashes where I had to restore from one of the backup saves so I didn't lose an entire run's worth of progress, and that seems to have bork'd a few things in the record-keeper, like, I've actually done something like 40 runs, but it only recorded my weapon useage for like, 11 of them)
*edit* To be clear, I didn't play Hades 1 in Early Access, so I have no idea what I'm really in for, time-wise or "is it a good idea to grind stuff up between content updates or no"
[9:53 PM]LucidSeraph: one of Hades' boons gives you +20% damage per each Death Defiance you lost
LucidSeraph: Which meant, sure, Chronos ate all 4 of mine (3 from Tarot, one from Kitty)
But that gave me +100% damage last run
[9:54 PM]LucidSeraph: "HADES SENDS HIS REGARDS"
[9:55 PM]LucidSeraph: Chronos: /kills me
Mel: you may be Time, but my father is deat--
Chronos: technically Death is your cousin. Your father is lord of the dea---
Mel: /in Nightmare form slapping him with the very stupidly OP Poseidon cast boon I picked up that was doing 600+ damage per shot because of Full Moon Path nightmare + Poseidon's other boon letting me double up that shit
Short Hades 2 review stuff now that I've gotten to dig into this decently on my long weekend.
Weapon tierlist, just from my use of them, best to weakest:
-Daggers
-Skulls
-Staff = Axe
-Hypothetical sixth weapon
-Flames
Flames is one of those things that doesn't seem to fit the combat style very well, especially when you're on controller (and I am never not playing Hades on a controller). A weapon reliant on auto-lock with a confusingly short range where it will engage combined with a shockingly low DPS, even when you're non-stop firing a powered up shot. On my best run with it, I still lost 2 Death Defiances against the Sirens because the spam of enemies that closes the fight completely broke the targeting logic and, surprise, I had no build options prepped for cast or special at that point, I was locked in on a quality regular attack.
Random question: should I be saving fish for some later unlocked use, or are they instantly for selling at the Broker?
Spoiler stuff
There being a completely different track of levels that you unlock midway is really good. The surface doesn't feel quite as polished or well designed yet, though. Auto-targeting on birds is genuinely unacceptably bad and lots of the obstacles function to just slash the area you have to work with to nothing (the fires that NEVER go out), which just feels bad to me. I might have been misunderstanding this, but do you not gain the door to door bonuses while steering the ship? This feels crazy punitive, that you have to do 3 or 4 fights in a row with no healing and no opportunity to grab the resources on the deck. My first try at Eris was annoying, and it brings out what I feel is the single worst thing 2 is doing differently from 1.
Starting from the screaming siren enemies on the first floor of Erebus, they've introduced enemies that can shit out an OUTRAGEOUS amount of damage in seconds, that happens SO quickly, you can't even observe how badly you're being hit until it's over. This is a pretty huge contrast to 1, where the game made a HUGE point of "you have taken damage" and then you generally speaking have a chance to respond in some way. They've added a bunch of ways to gain defense (dodge from the Arcana card, armor, resist damage primed magic, etc.) but they shouldn't have also turned around and made it so that Eris can fire a shotgun blast 7 times in under a minute where every shot does 18 damage repeatedly. That's stupid, especially based on the range. See also Chronos' "I'm going to break 50 armor in a single hit off a charge that starts with no windup." Other enemies I feel sore about:
-High level satyr mage mini-boss that infinite spawns little rats because... some of your weapons will auto-target them, which is essentially death to certain builds. This doesn't feel like a fair source of challenge, that the game is whipping your head around and refusing to target the correct enemy. Especially because other builds get to completely ignore it, so it's like they're shining a bright spotlight at certain builds just being objectively stronger.
-Laser beam moneybag mini-boss, because they've introduced this new (terrible, imo) mechanic of sniper bosses who permanently destroy cover and then fire faster-than-your-sprint tracking weapons at you, continuously.
-Cerberus is very doable, but the area of effect on his attacks are pretty, pretty stupid. If you have a medium range build (say, strong skulls + a good cast), he's extremely easy. If you have a melee focused build, you get to continuously eat shockwave attacks coming from the other side of his body that, again, don't have a fair windup.
Lots of early access stuff with the interface needs to be touched up. When you can buy a healing item from a well, your health should be onscreen WITHOUT having to touch a button, the way it functions in 1 (you can see your health if you bring up your boon list, but it shouldn't be obscured on this screen to begin with). The description of a lot of different powers needs to be clarified, they're confusingly swapping from the word "attack" meaning specifically your primary attack and then sometimes it's any way you're capable of dealing damage. The spell to make the game explicitly tell you where resources are was a very nice QOL, but I think it actually should be even better. There should be a button to have it tell you again if you didn't immediately follow the trail and I sort of don't trust it in the VERY large areas on floor 3. It also seems like it doesn't note the location of wells and that probably means it won't tell you about Infernal Troves (I just unlocked those, so I don't know).
Finally, story stuff. Hades 1 had MOSTLY helpful and friendly faces in the house (Achilles, Dusa, Nyx, Cerberus, Skelly, Orpheus), a few neutral people (Hypnos), and some rude people who you got to come around on, over time (Meg, Thanatos). There was just one overt villain to shit on you, between runs, Hades himself. Hades 2 is kind of challenging this setup, but so far, it feels more annoying instead of more exciting or more complex. You have a bunch of non-human pets, which are cute, but not to the level of Cerberus where they feel like characters in and of themselves. Then for positive forces, there's Odysseus (great), Skelly (still great), Moros (seems to be there to be a hot male love interest by my guess... and little else so far?), and Hecate (potentially hiding some stuff? but seems very cool and capable). Then you have Hypnos (does not actually seem to be a character, this could still change in early access stuff I haven't gotten to) for the neutral again. Then... the haters. There feels like there's an oppressive amount of them now. Chronos shows up during the run to cut promos on you, which is a pretty good idea to give us more of his character aside from a single boss fight, but it does mean more hassling when you're focused on other stuff. Nemesis quickly becomes the kind of Lancer who's... just an asshole? Going to the surface will literally kill you, but she refuses to do it. So then you do it... and she bitches about that too. Her effect on gameplay is interesting enough that I won't hate on it, but "being kind of annoying in the field" combined with "being a tryhard loser at base camp," is a lot. Obviously, I get the sense there will be a Thanatos turn later on for this character, but I guess the writing direction for her currently is "front load everything awful about her right away and expect players to not turn on her completely," which... ehhhh. Eris seems to be designed to be the new Theseus, which WOULD be fine, except she's showing up to camp and expecting gifts too? I felt like never asking us to befriend Theseus in 1 was a VERY smart decision, it feels like this is... less smart. Her entry in the lorebook does suggest something, essentially that Melinoe is a disaster lesbian who dates exclusively hot assholes, which would make me sad for her if that's what it turns out to be (I am nowhere close to unlocking that stuff, if it exists in early access). Finally, there's Dora, who is ostensibly a friend character but she's been designed as sort of a slacker/airhead to the point where she's kind of swinging negative the more you expend effort and resources on her. My expectation is that these characters will, at some point, exhibit depth to where your feelings would be more complex or even completely positive, but my hesitation is that front loading everything negative to where you're learning the game and working on a lot of attempts that fail (note: MANY players will end the game at this level and never get to the successful conclusion or the much harder epilogue stuff) means that all those players will just be like "I don't like ANY of these characters." You could say they've upped the ante and given Melinoe a more ambitious, difficult, and frustrating task, or you could say they have replaced the extremely enjoyable vibes from basically every character in 1 with a bunch of assholes who you are largely helpless to even express how much of an asshole they're being, in any way that matters. The template from Hades 1 is being very empathetic and patient until you're very good friends with basically everyone. These characters often do not make me WANT to give gifts and spend time with them, so that's gonna be a tough writing hurdle to cross.
Just to avoid being purely negative, I'll say the new Gods are interesting and I REALLY like Melinoe's much closer relationship with Artemis as compared to Zagreus'. I like Arachne, but Narcissus and Echo both feel kind of... placeholdery in the current game. Talking to Hades is really neat, but his rewards for doing so seem kind of oddly picked. Do a bit of damage to the final boss, change one of your abilities in a dramatic way that may not suit your build, or get a damage buff. The other benefits from the ally visits feel much more dynamic than his, at this point in the game.
I think I've already put a comparable amount of time into this Early Access as compared to the original version's EA, they have done a really impressive job of living up to my high hopes and I'm planning to kind of beat the main challenges just a bit and then tail off to allow for the full version to surprise and excite me whenever it comes out.
Get the "Channel +15 mana into your special to cast it twice" hammer.
Drop your cast. channel your special. It detonates your cast. IMMEDITATELY drop your cast again - and the second wave of your special will set that off.
Given how Apollo's legendary boon works, this should in theory let you go Cast -> Apollo legendary + Hammer special channel -> Cast, Cast, Cast for some truly stupid damage.
I think the Torches get slept on tbh. They're not the easiest or the most fun to use, but their damage output must compensate somehow or something because I consistently clear with them whenever they get the bones bonus.
@shoeboxjeddy currently fish appear to be just for selling, so go nuts. They're an excellent source of bones - stacking Toula and the fishing rod will let you pull in hundreds of bones each run, which is very nice
@shoeboxjeddy I agree with you completely on the characters. Stuff under spoilers:
Moros and Nemesis both feel like "We have Than and Meg at home." Moros is at least not an asshole, but he also feels like he doesn't have a personality. Nem... I kept shoving nectar at her expecting her to be very slightly less assholish, and at this point, I have gotten her to basically admit that most of her bluster is that she doesn't think this should have to be your job. She doesn't quite admit it, but I think they're going for "she was trying to demoralize you out of even doing this at all, because she was trying to protect you." Unfortunately, that just comes off as her being a broody, ineffective arse.
Mechanically, she also pisses me off, because she always beats me during her contests, while I can wipe the floor with Hercules easy peasy -- likely because Nem is based on *kills* and she, like Thanatos, just one-shots things, and environment kills don't seem to count. Meanwhile Herc is based on *gold earned*, where environment kills very much DO count, as do the Shade kills from bursting the anchor thingies, and so does gold from urns! He also seems to treat it as just business and not bulling you, specifically.
I already ranted about Dora above; I have since come to hate her less blindly, but I still think she's just. Every time she talks about "lol I mess with your stuff when you're not in the tent" I see red.
So many of these people: "don't trust Odysseus."
Me: "He's the only person here besides like, Skelly, who isn't a jerk to me on some level "
I have an odd fondness for Eris as a character just because I kind of like unhinged manic pixie nightmare bitches. She reminds me of the terrible D&D character I made in high school.
Agreed re: the upperworld feeling unfinished. The boat sections especially. As you mentioned, the boat sections not "counting" as new rooms really hurts, and makes gathering crafting mats like driftwood and iron an enormous pain. At one point I just ran through it on God Mode a bunch of times (and also had to use God Mode to beat Eris) because I was sick of just not getting the stuff I needed.
Different, much sillier spoiler. Remember how in Hades 1, Hades had these capes he burned at the start of every damn fight, and later it turned out he had an entire closet of nothing but capes?
a) Where did you put the cape closet, Chronos? Where is it.
b) My partner thinks that if Hades ever gives us a Trinket, it should be an Infinite Cape (that is technically a new cape every night)
Regarding contests vs Nemesis, one time she challenged me in Oceanus, and it turned out to be a room that spawned the flying fish buggers. And I had been building up a powerful lightning cast... I beat her like 65-7, I hope she ended that run just crying in a corner somewhere.
@shoeboxjeddy I agree with you completely on the characters. Stuff under spoilers:
Moros and Nemesis both feel like "We have Than and Meg at home." Moros is at least not an asshole, but he also feels like he doesn't have a personality.
Characters:
I feel like Moros is just supposed to be the guy who does the right thing all the time, and is relatively simple otherwise. He seems like he's just like a Sad Boy in a Himbo's body. He doesn't really remind me of Than, who was somehow much more morose. I am hoping with more time they're going to compare him being relatively duty-bound to Melinoe in a way that helps her see how she is perceived by others.
Oh, THERE'S the limits of Early Access. My run was going extremely well, too... Clear was on Staff, with the aspect that allows Serenity (first try of it). I was extremely pleased that Nemesis described her return to camp as "crying very loudly", although it would be nice to have heard some of that.
Got a really useful axe upgrade that destroys armor in an instant when using special, feels kind of brokenly good, in fact. Like, Hephaestus has a Boon that specifically targets armor and it's chip damage by comparison (armor seems uh, worse in design/balance than in 1, presently). If I can get even one Chronos clear, I'll probably give it a rest, I'm getting too invested in all my upgrades, and I expect those systems to dramatically shift around by true launch.
Armor can be real scary on some mobs, since it makes them immune to stagger. It'll also stop damage bleedthrough, 1 hp of armor will absorb all damage from 1 hit. so if you have a slow weapon it can dramatically lower your kill time against little guys, and make them a lot more dangerous.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Night 29 is scoreboard, finally killed off Chronos (with the daggers, natch). I didn't even have a particularly broken build, just Aphrodite on Attack and Special, an aspect of the daggers I don't really understand yet (I parried one time, by accident), and a full, decent sized health bar + 3 death defiances (and Skelly). I think I used two of those. The game is fun enough to keep going anyway, but I do think I'm going to try to break its hold on me so I can enjoy it more on release.
Artemis Daggers is literally during your omega charge/holding it charged, get hit by an attack. It'll be negated, and then your next 9 attacked get a massive crit chance bonus.
You can do the parry every 15? Or something seconds, I can't remember offhand.
Aphrodite Artemis is one of the more ridiculous combos in the game because of the way aphro's % damage stacks with crit chance, meaning you can end up landing omegas that do over 1.5k damage
Artemis Daggers is literally during your omega charge/holding it charged, get hit by an attack. It'll be negated, and then your next 9 attacked get a massive crit chance bonus.
You can do the parry every 15? Or something seconds, I can't remember offhand.
Aphrodite Artemis is one of the more ridiculous combos in the game because of the way aphro's % damage stacks with crit chance, meaning you can end up landing omegas that do over 1.5k damage
Honestly, all three aspects right now for that weapon are really good, they just build for different things.
I think backstab daggers get left behind a bit, honestly. They're good, but they require much more active (and frustrating) positioning, and they don't have the highs that Pan or Artemis do, both of which are capable of truly insane nuke potential.
They're still very good, if anything Pan and Artemis are over tuned
My first win last night! Mainly down to aprodites heartthrobs, a heavily upgraded dark form and me finally remembering that chronos doesn't care about being paused (so you have to run away to transform).
His second phase oddly gave me no trouble at all on my first try after losing vs his first 5 times. Second form feels much more in line with other bosses behaviors.
I find the refresh window on the Artemis daggers to just be way too long out of the gate. I'd rather see if powered down but have a much quicker refresh.
As it stands as it is I basically can use the feature once per encounter considering how fast encounters go.
Thoughts on Chronos fight, in its current form. And yes, I'm sure you could just say "skill issue", but I feel like I'm probably a fine marker for "skilled enough to play without God Mode, but not perfect play."
The biggest problems I'm having with him are he just lunges into big swings or worst of all his spinning weapon toss without a lot of warning that you should do something or be somewhere else. In a lot of cases, he'll make a noise, so I'll dodge. He'll hit me with the spinning throw (because the frames on it coming out are very fast or my attack wouldn't interrupt right away, more on that later), then if I've unluckily chosen a bad dodge direction, I'll get wanged as my dodge ends too, that can be a 60 HP swing after one button press, which is pretty silly. What moves it from annoying to unfair/ not good design, imo, is that the weapons aren't affected equally by how he works.
Basically everything about the daggers works to your benefit. Regular attack and regular special come out quick and are hard for him to punish, unless you insist on being greedy. Primary omega attack slows him down AND gets you behind him, aka the best possible spot to be in for MANY of his moves. You can even use it to dive in past his shield of clocks if you're feeling daring, and it's very easy to punish his vortex using primary attack channeling. Locking on to instantly (and accurately) close distance is so powerful, assuming it doesn't not work (many instances of it not working, under certain conditions).
Compare to torch, where primary omega attack slows you and locks you into an extremely smackable range, waiting for the worthwhile attacks to deign to show up. Or you can spam special and break your controller's Y button waiting for the damage to accumulate on him, like you're fighting him as a sort of washing machine.
Or the axe. The big issue I have with the axe is there is a GIGANTIC difference between dash attack and primary attack on the axe, more so than on any other weapon, and the distinction can literally get you killed. One of the axe weapon upgrades turns your slow 3-hit combo into a one-hit bit you have to commit to. Which is kind of a neat and interesting playstyle... were the dash mechanic not there to fuck you up. Dodge close to the enemy, release the button (finger is off the button completely), press attack after a deliberate timing gap... dash attack. Comes out with a totally different timing, hits a different area of effect, does like 1/3rd the damage, if that. "Just press attack slower, then." Ah yes, clearly the axe's problem is that it's too reliably QUICK on the draw (bombastic side eye). This is especially bad since the dagger is so EASY to get in safely and with the correct move. Vs the axe, which requires you to play footsies with your controller before you're allowed to play footsies with the boss. You could try the primary omega attack, which is good for damage and stuns not at all, which means he generally tees off on your forehead for attempting it. Or you could use the block, which is great as it's maybe the worst parry counter I've ever seen. So the counterattack part is unrelated to actually blocking anything, and it going off opens you up to be hit by the thing you're blocking. So if there's too many hits in a row to block, you'll get hit by some of them. Oh, and some hits just will be unblockable, surprise! Considering how fast Chronos' hits come out, guessing if the next attack will even work to be blocked is a new level of bad mind games. And even if you time it right, no hits get past your block, and you charge the required amount to hit back... your target can just sidestep it and the attack usually will not track. This one is just dire.
For completeness sake, the staff is fine, I just see the daggers as deeply superior. The staff's primary omega is overpriced in MP for its unimpressive damage, for instance. Better for clearing waves of unarmored trash than any strong enemy who poses a threat.
Edit: I said completeness and forgot the Skulls. I think they'd work, just EXTREMELY dependent on the build and boons. Daggers basic attack pattern is always good enough, you just will make it faster and safer with a good build. Skulls are basically totally different weapons, based on what spec you get. And of course, you can't re-roll those specs, which seems unfair with how crazy different the results can be.
To avoid being JUST negative, I'll say that I had my favorite ever Nemesis interactions recently.
Melinoe points out that Nemesis' armor is weighing her down, maybe she'd be better off without it.
Nemesis counters that she is not interested in going into battle "half naked." Her tone of voice is sus.
Melinoe counters back that Nemesis should try fighting "half naked", it's "quite nice."
Melinoe pushing back just as hard makes ALL the difference, and is key if they're intending for this to ever read as romantic.
Posts
Other than that I just use giant spinning water balloon special.
Second boss isn't immune to Backstabs, they just have a much narrower angle you can get them from.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Also
Also also either I’m missing something or the axe is terrible.
He does. Bosses in both games change based on your overall progression. Most obvious in 1 when the Furies change, but, this is also happening more subtly in 2.
Bloody gods be damned Cerberus gets so many stupid new attack sequences and changes them up and THAT DOG GOD DAMN.
in other news I'm not sure I should identify so hard with [surface spoilers]
You're missing something. Axe is great. To use it effectively though you really have to lean into its full kit. For instance, drop a cast and dash back to snare things, then unload on them while they're trapped. The special comes out very fast, which gives you a powerful defensive option too.
Boon wise, Axe doesn't really like Hestia, Posiden or Zeus (exception - if you're going Charon axe, these all have great casts that play well. Theoretically you could do some stuff abusing normal specials with these three though). It loves Apollo - the range increase it's massive, and he's got an amazing legendary. can do really good work with Hera, Demeter, Aphrodite, Heph. Those is for attack/special boons, mind.
Big thing is learning that you can dash cancel with Axe. That is you can attack, dash, and kept the sequence going. The final hit in the attack combo is very damaging, but very high commitment - it may be worth ignoring, or only committing when you know your safe to.
Examples of dash cancels btw - Charge omega attack, dash, omega attack goes off at the end of the dash. Same with omega special. You can dash between the third and fourth attacks in the axe sequence as well.
Axe's omegas are interesting. They're not the highest dps, but they give you some crowd clear. Thanatos Axe really loves the whirlwind + Apollo, as it can stack crit chance very fast while shedding the entire room.
For aspects - Default axe just focuses on making things flow smoother. It's the all arounder. Charon let's your omega specials detonate your cast, setting it off like you'd charged your omega. Thanatos gives you stacking crit chance for every hit with an omega you land, up to a cap of 20%, but you loose it all if you take damage. You can hit some insane numbers with this.
It's a very good weapon, it's just a much more calculated playstle than the death of a thousand cuts that staff and dagger are. It also struggles badly vs the "enemies spawn with a shield" modifier, for obvious reasons.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Well damn. I was a sliver of health away from beating him on my first encounter, but I had to pause because the baby was crying and then Chronos did some bullshit where he unpauses your game because he’s the god of time and isn’t that clever and then he killed me 🙄
And now the next four times I’ve reached him his moveset seems much more punishing and I can’t get him below 20% life.
But in general the fight needs something done to make it more clear what is happening. There are so many overlapping effects with similar colors happening that it's almost impossible to see at times.
Yeah you can't pause when fighting Chronos ever. It's an annoying but neat little trick. I was super confused the first time I saw it too.
Incorrect - You unlock an incantation that allows you to pause vs him, but it requires beating him at least once. (it's very funny because he complains about you pausing, and the fact he can't undo it)
@Talka beyond the above advice I post for Axing, one tip for the final boss:
Abuse your cast.
It neuters his dash attack dramatically, cutting it's range by something crazy like 80%. Given it's probably the single most dangerous move in his arsenal and he likes to spam it... This makes things a chunk easier.
Also fwiw, i didn't get a clear on Chronos until night 42ish. Now i can punk his arse pretty reliably, and have done so even on Fear 8 so far.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
lol apologies for my tiny inaccuracy my dude.
In other news. Put me on the flames train too. I actually quite enjoy them. The skulls are my least favorite so far but I see a ton of potential in them too with a bit of tweaking.
My only problem with the axe right now is if I dash-cancel the shield omega, it fires in the direction I then *start* dashing in again. Example: I'm aiming it at a boss, I try to dodge away from the boss, it now fires *away* from the boss. I would much rather drop it and have it fire where I *was* facing when it goes off!
I do, too.
I just want it because I would like it to be a macuahuitl.
The ships also seem weirdly easy? Like, easier than the preceding areas. Very short segments, with few enemies with little health. Strange. Maybe I’ve just had good weapon/boon/enemy combo luck the few times I’ve run through it.
Eris kicked my ass on my one attempt on her so far. Thought I was doing well against her but finally mistimed something when she was down to ~20% and she depleted a full health bar in a fraction of a second. Got shook after that and lost my second life immediately afterwards.
Also I continue to struggle with getting bad boons for my preferred play style for a given weapon… I like attacking with the staff and specials with the flames, so inevitably I never get any attack boons for the staff or special boons for the flames 🙄
I think my current goals are going to be to top everyone up on nectar, upgrade the fishing rod, upgrade my pets, and unlock more Arcana. I'll probably get to a point fairly soon where I'll be bored and take a nice long pause until the next big update.
tl;dr Axe Good. Hepheastus Good. Didn't use God Mode or a single Death Defiance. COME ON AND [stellar] SLAM, AND WELCOME TO THE JAM
Side note: I choose to believe that every basketball ref in this game is actually referencing Pyre.
Both wins were with basically the same build: staff, focusing on specials with blitz damage and chain lightning. I'm surprised that ended up working... I never felt particularly powerful. But I made it to Eris and Chronos with all my Death Defiances, and then the specials' range in those final boss fights was more important than I expected.
I still want to get good at the other weapons... the axe in particular is fun to play. But I think with these two wins and the game's early access status, I'm gonna put this down for a while and come back when there's more content.
Of course, that's only because my Hollow Knight hours are split between Steam/Switch, but even that didn't rack up the hours in 3 weeks.
Debating slowing down because I'm clearly getting to the end of the content I actually care about (story/characters). But I could max out allll them heart bars before the next content drops... maybe......
(... and hopefully didn't fry my savegames. I had a couple of crashes where I had to restore from one of the backup saves so I didn't lose an entire run's worth of progress, and that seems to have bork'd a few things in the record-keeper, like, I've actually done something like 40 runs, but it only recorded my weapon useage for like, 11 of them)
*edit* To be clear, I didn't play Hades 1 in Early Access, so I have no idea what I'm really in for, time-wise or "is it a good idea to grind stuff up between content updates or no"
LucidSeraph: Which meant, sure, Chronos ate all 4 of mine (3 from Tarot, one from Kitty)
But that gave me +100% damage last run
[9:54 PM]LucidSeraph: "HADES SENDS HIS REGARDS"
[9:55 PM]LucidSeraph: Chronos: /kills me
Mel: you may be Time, but my father is deat--
Chronos: technically Death is your cousin. Your father is lord of the dea---
Mel: /in Nightmare form slapping him with the very stupidly OP Poseidon cast boon I picked up that was doing 600+ damage per shot because of Full Moon Path nightmare + Poseidon's other boon letting me double up that shit
Weapon tierlist, just from my use of them, best to weakest:
-Daggers
-Skulls
-Staff = Axe
-Hypothetical sixth weapon
-Flames
Flames is one of those things that doesn't seem to fit the combat style very well, especially when you're on controller (and I am never not playing Hades on a controller). A weapon reliant on auto-lock with a confusingly short range where it will engage combined with a shockingly low DPS, even when you're non-stop firing a powered up shot. On my best run with it, I still lost 2 Death Defiances against the Sirens because the spam of enemies that closes the fight completely broke the targeting logic and, surprise, I had no build options prepped for cast or special at that point, I was locked in on a quality regular attack.
Random question: should I be saving fish for some later unlocked use, or are they instantly for selling at the Broker?
Spoiler stuff
Starting from the screaming siren enemies on the first floor of Erebus, they've introduced enemies that can shit out an OUTRAGEOUS amount of damage in seconds, that happens SO quickly, you can't even observe how badly you're being hit until it's over. This is a pretty huge contrast to 1, where the game made a HUGE point of "you have taken damage" and then you generally speaking have a chance to respond in some way. They've added a bunch of ways to gain defense (dodge from the Arcana card, armor, resist damage primed magic, etc.) but they shouldn't have also turned around and made it so that Eris can fire a shotgun blast 7 times in under a minute where every shot does 18 damage repeatedly. That's stupid, especially based on the range. See also Chronos' "I'm going to break 50 armor in a single hit off a charge that starts with no windup." Other enemies I feel sore about:
-High level satyr mage mini-boss that infinite spawns little rats because... some of your weapons will auto-target them, which is essentially death to certain builds. This doesn't feel like a fair source of challenge, that the game is whipping your head around and refusing to target the correct enemy. Especially because other builds get to completely ignore it, so it's like they're shining a bright spotlight at certain builds just being objectively stronger.
-Laser beam moneybag mini-boss, because they've introduced this new (terrible, imo) mechanic of sniper bosses who permanently destroy cover and then fire faster-than-your-sprint tracking weapons at you, continuously.
-Cerberus is very doable, but the area of effect on his attacks are pretty, pretty stupid. If you have a medium range build (say, strong skulls + a good cast), he's extremely easy. If you have a melee focused build, you get to continuously eat shockwave attacks coming from the other side of his body that, again, don't have a fair windup.
Lots of early access stuff with the interface needs to be touched up. When you can buy a healing item from a well, your health should be onscreen WITHOUT having to touch a button, the way it functions in 1 (you can see your health if you bring up your boon list, but it shouldn't be obscured on this screen to begin with). The description of a lot of different powers needs to be clarified, they're confusingly swapping from the word "attack" meaning specifically your primary attack and then sometimes it's any way you're capable of dealing damage. The spell to make the game explicitly tell you where resources are was a very nice QOL, but I think it actually should be even better. There should be a button to have it tell you again if you didn't immediately follow the trail and I sort of don't trust it in the VERY large areas on floor 3. It also seems like it doesn't note the location of wells and that probably means it won't tell you about Infernal Troves (I just unlocked those, so I don't know).
Finally, story stuff. Hades 1 had MOSTLY helpful and friendly faces in the house (Achilles, Dusa, Nyx, Cerberus, Skelly, Orpheus), a few neutral people (Hypnos), and some rude people who you got to come around on, over time (Meg, Thanatos). There was just one overt villain to shit on you, between runs, Hades himself. Hades 2 is kind of challenging this setup, but so far, it feels more annoying instead of more exciting or more complex. You have a bunch of non-human pets, which are cute, but not to the level of Cerberus where they feel like characters in and of themselves. Then for positive forces, there's Odysseus (great), Skelly (still great), Moros (seems to be there to be a hot male love interest by my guess... and little else so far?), and Hecate (potentially hiding some stuff? but seems very cool and capable). Then you have Hypnos (does not actually seem to be a character, this could still change in early access stuff I haven't gotten to) for the neutral again. Then... the haters. There feels like there's an oppressive amount of them now. Chronos shows up during the run to cut promos on you, which is a pretty good idea to give us more of his character aside from a single boss fight, but it does mean more hassling when you're focused on other stuff. Nemesis quickly becomes the kind of Lancer who's... just an asshole? Going to the surface will literally kill you, but she refuses to do it. So then you do it... and she bitches about that too. Her effect on gameplay is interesting enough that I won't hate on it, but "being kind of annoying in the field" combined with "being a tryhard loser at base camp," is a lot. Obviously, I get the sense there will be a Thanatos turn later on for this character, but I guess the writing direction for her currently is "front load everything awful about her right away and expect players to not turn on her completely," which... ehhhh. Eris seems to be designed to be the new Theseus, which WOULD be fine, except she's showing up to camp and expecting gifts too? I felt like never asking us to befriend Theseus in 1 was a VERY smart decision, it feels like this is... less smart. Her entry in the lorebook does suggest something, essentially that Melinoe is a disaster lesbian who dates exclusively hot assholes, which would make me sad for her if that's what it turns out to be (I am nowhere close to unlocking that stuff, if it exists in early access). Finally, there's Dora, who is ostensibly a friend character but she's been designed as sort of a slacker/airhead to the point where she's kind of swinging negative the more you expend effort and resources on her. My expectation is that these characters will, at some point, exhibit depth to where your feelings would be more complex or even completely positive, but my hesitation is that front loading everything negative to where you're learning the game and working on a lot of attempts that fail (note: MANY players will end the game at this level and never get to the successful conclusion or the much harder epilogue stuff) means that all those players will just be like "I don't like ANY of these characters." You could say they've upped the ante and given Melinoe a more ambitious, difficult, and frustrating task, or you could say they have replaced the extremely enjoyable vibes from basically every character in 1 with a bunch of assholes who you are largely helpless to even express how much of an asshole they're being, in any way that matters. The template from Hades 1 is being very empathetic and patient until you're very good friends with basically everyone. These characters often do not make me WANT to give gifts and spend time with them, so that's gonna be a tough writing hurdle to cross.
Just to avoid being purely negative, I'll say the new Gods are interesting and I REALLY like Melinoe's much closer relationship with Artemis as compared to Zagreus'. I like Arachne, but Narcissus and Echo both feel kind of... placeholdery in the current game. Talking to Hades is really neat, but his rewards for doing so seem kind of oddly picked. Do a bit of damage to the final boss, change one of your abilities in a dramatic way that may not suit your build, or get a damage buff. The other benefits from the ally visits feel much more dynamic than his, at this point in the game.
I think I've already put a comparable amount of time into this Early Access as compared to the original version's EA, they have done a really impressive job of living up to my high hopes and I'm planning to kind of beat the main challenges just a bit and then tail off to allow for the full version to surprise and excite me whenever it comes out.
Get the "Channel +15 mana into your special to cast it twice" hammer.
Drop your cast. channel your special. It detonates your cast. IMMEDITATELY drop your cast again - and the second wave of your special will set that off.
Given how Apollo's legendary boon works, this should in theory let you go Cast -> Apollo legendary + Hammer special channel -> Cast, Cast, Cast for some truly stupid damage.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Mechanically, she also pisses me off, because she always beats me during her contests, while I can wipe the floor with Hercules easy peasy -- likely because Nem is based on *kills* and she, like Thanatos, just one-shots things, and environment kills don't seem to count. Meanwhile Herc is based on *gold earned*, where environment kills very much DO count, as do the Shade kills from bursting the anchor thingies, and so does gold from urns! He also seems to treat it as just business and not bulling you, specifically.
I already ranted about Dora above; I have since come to hate her less blindly, but I still think she's just. Every time she talks about "lol I mess with your stuff when you're not in the tent" I see red.
So many of these people: "don't trust Odysseus."
Me: "He's the only person here besides like, Skelly, who isn't a jerk to me on some level
I have an odd fondness for Eris as a character just because I kind of like unhinged manic pixie nightmare bitches. She reminds me of the terrible D&D character I made in high school.
Agreed re: the upperworld feeling unfinished. The boat sections especially. As you mentioned, the boat sections not "counting" as new rooms really hurts, and makes gathering crafting mats like driftwood and iron an enormous pain. At one point I just ran through it on God Mode a bunch of times (and also had to use God Mode to beat Eris) because I was sick of just not getting the stuff I needed.
Different, much sillier spoiler. Remember how in Hades 1, Hades had these capes he burned at the start of every damn fight, and later it turned out he had an entire closet of nothing but capes?
b) My partner thinks that if Hades ever gives us a Trinket, it should be an Infinite Cape (that is technically a new cape every night)
Characters:
Got a really useful axe upgrade that destroys armor in an instant when using special, feels kind of brokenly good, in fact. Like, Hephaestus has a Boon that specifically targets armor and it's chip damage by comparison (armor seems uh, worse in design/balance than in 1, presently). If I can get even one Chronos clear, I'll probably give it a rest, I'm getting too invested in all my upgrades, and I expect those systems to dramatically shift around by true launch.
You can do the parry every 15? Or something seconds, I can't remember offhand.
Aphrodite Artemis is one of the more ridiculous combos in the game because of the way aphro's % damage stacks with crit chance, meaning you can end up landing omegas that do over 1.5k damage
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Honestly, all three aspects right now for that weapon are really good, they just build for different things.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
They're still very good, if anything Pan and Artemis are over tuned
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
His second phase oddly gave me no trouble at all on my first try after losing vs his first 5 times. Second form feels much more in line with other bosses behaviors.
As it stands as it is I basically can use the feature once per encounter considering how fast encounters go.
Basically everything about the daggers works to your benefit. Regular attack and regular special come out quick and are hard for him to punish, unless you insist on being greedy. Primary omega attack slows him down AND gets you behind him, aka the best possible spot to be in for MANY of his moves. You can even use it to dive in past his shield of clocks if you're feeling daring, and it's very easy to punish his vortex using primary attack channeling. Locking on to instantly (and accurately) close distance is so powerful, assuming it doesn't not work (many instances of it not working, under certain conditions).
Compare to torch, where primary omega attack slows you and locks you into an extremely smackable range, waiting for the worthwhile attacks to deign to show up. Or you can spam special and break your controller's Y button waiting for the damage to accumulate on him, like you're fighting him as a sort of washing machine.
Or the axe. The big issue I have with the axe is there is a GIGANTIC difference between dash attack and primary attack on the axe, more so than on any other weapon, and the distinction can literally get you killed. One of the axe weapon upgrades turns your slow 3-hit combo into a one-hit bit you have to commit to. Which is kind of a neat and interesting playstyle... were the dash mechanic not there to fuck you up. Dodge close to the enemy, release the button (finger is off the button completely), press attack after a deliberate timing gap... dash attack. Comes out with a totally different timing, hits a different area of effect, does like 1/3rd the damage, if that. "Just press attack slower, then." Ah yes, clearly the axe's problem is that it's too reliably QUICK on the draw (bombastic side eye). This is especially bad since the dagger is so EASY to get in safely and with the correct move. Vs the axe, which requires you to play footsies with your controller before you're allowed to play footsies with the boss. You could try the primary omega attack, which is good for damage and stuns not at all, which means he generally tees off on your forehead for attempting it. Or you could use the block, which is great as it's maybe the worst parry counter I've ever seen. So the counterattack part is unrelated to actually blocking anything, and it going off opens you up to be hit by the thing you're blocking. So if there's too many hits in a row to block, you'll get hit by some of them. Oh, and some hits just will be unblockable, surprise! Considering how fast Chronos' hits come out, guessing if the next attack will even work to be blocked is a new level of bad mind games. And even if you time it right, no hits get past your block, and you charge the required amount to hit back... your target can just sidestep it and the attack usually will not track. This one is just dire.
For completeness sake, the staff is fine, I just see the daggers as deeply superior. The staff's primary omega is overpriced in MP for its unimpressive damage, for instance. Better for clearing waves of unarmored trash than any strong enemy who poses a threat.
Edit: I said completeness and forgot the Skulls. I think they'd work, just EXTREMELY dependent on the build and boons. Daggers basic attack pattern is always good enough, you just will make it faster and safer with a good build. Skulls are basically totally different weapons, based on what spec you get. And of course, you can't re-roll those specs, which seems unfair with how crazy different the results can be.
To avoid being JUST negative, I'll say that I had my favorite ever Nemesis interactions recently.
Nemesis counters that she is not interested in going into battle "half naked." Her tone of voice is sus.
Melinoe counters back that Nemesis should try fighting "half naked", it's "quite nice."
Melinoe pushing back just as hard makes ALL the difference, and is key if they're intending for this to ever read as romantic.
Axe is just learning the timings and leaning into its ability to nuke things
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891