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US Govt Shutdown 2018: It's a Trump Christmas Shutdown!

So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
edited December 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
So It Goes on
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Posts

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Shut downs hurt a lot of people, I think calling for accelerationism is generally bad and we certainly should not be cheering for it.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Shut downs hurt a lot of people, but it's important to keep in mind what they happen over and who is to blame and sometimes it's okay to cheer for it.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    Man in the MistsElvenshaeLadaiShadowfireMidniteMegaMekShadowhopeMatev
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    The position that a shutdown must always be avoided is politically unworkable if only one side is going to adhere to it. Republicans want to make government shutdowns a legitimate political chip and Democrats can't stop them from doing it so might as well play the game.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    And just to put that into further context, while government employees aren't rolling in money by any stretch, they also are not the most vulnerable people in our country.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    DracomicronDhalphir
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I think it's important that we aren't cheering for the shutdown per se, but refusing to compromise certain principles or on policy that is horrific, pointless, and cruel

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Shut downs hurt a lot of people, I think calling for accelerationism is generally bad and we certainly should not be cheering for it.

    In this case most of the government has already been funded and Captain Dumbass is trying to get something he can't even get past his own party, let alone the Dems.

    And if he waits too long the odds get that much worse because the new Congress won't be thrilled with him to say the least.

    Man in the Mists
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I am thankful that Trump’s owning it already even if he’ll deny it by tomorrow.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    And just to put that into further context, while government employees aren't rolling in money by any stretch, they also are not the most vulnerable people in our country.

    Callous to the point of being tone deaf. Like "you can take it so I can feel smug about you not making your bills" is a rotten line for anyone to take.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    shrykeLostNinjajmcdonaldHavelock2.0NoughtMagellHappylilElf
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Can someone else link stuff about the press conference today in here

    Thanks

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I think it's important that we aren't cheering for the shutdown per se, but refusing to compromise certain principles or on policy that is horrific, pointless, and cruel
    That's probably a better way to phrase it than I could ever hope to. I just hope people understand the position I'm in when I'm making declarations about this matter (because of what it is rooted in, and where I am rooted).

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    Orphanenever dieMegaMekTofystedeth
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    And just to put that into further context, while government employees aren't rolling in money by any stretch, they also are not the most vulnerable people in our country.

    Callous to the point of being tone deaf. Like "you can take it so I can feel smug about you not making your bills" is a rotten line for anyone to take.

    It's safe to say that government workers do not make much money, even if they are literally less vulnerable than homeless, they might still end up homeless or their kids might not get fed because of shit like this.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, don't @ me
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Technically it's for FY-2019

  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    My dad retires from State later this month. If this shutdown happens he might not even be able to fly home, because of the epic amounts of fuckery that have happened to Federal employees, their paychecks and reimbursements for required job related expenses. I hope Trump blinks.

    I like children. Provided they go home with their parents at the end of the day.
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Meeqe wrote: »
    My dad retires from State later this month. If this shutdown happens he might not even be able to fly home, because of the epic amounts of fuckery that have happened to Federal employees, their paychecks and reimbursements for required job related expenses. I hope Trump blinks.
    It will take Mitch McConnell jabbing him in the eye, metaphorically speaking.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    JaysonFourElvenshaeMan in the MistsMegaMekShadowhopeTofystedethMatev
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Technically it's for FY-2019

    WELL MONIKER ITS HAPPENING IN 2018 OK

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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Honestly though, part of the problem is that "we shouldn't go out of our way to make people suffer" or "peoples livelihoods shouldn't be the pawns in some dumb game of power" are also the lines of thinking that get you to "the shutdown is bad", which is what gave the GOP so much power in the first place when it comes to the budget. Because they have no problem making people suffer or using anyone who might not be able to feed their kids as a pawn to amass more power. So they're willing to shoot the hostage every single fucking time as long as they get their dumb praise or attention.

    It's a pretty shitty thing to say "I guess these people will have to suffer so that we can hopefully prevent more suffering later", but as long as the GOP isn't actually interested in avoiding a shutdown we sort of have to

    Man in the Mistsnever dieShadowhopeMatev
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Meeqe wrote: »
    My dad retires from State later this month. If this shutdown happens he might not even be able to fly home, because of the epic amounts of fuckery that have happened to Federal employees, their paychecks and reimbursements for required job related expenses. I hope Trump blinks.
    It will take Mitch McConnell jabbing him in the eye, metaphorically speaking.

    You mean a bi-partisan bill without wall funding that has enough votes to override Trump's veto?

    Yeah, I hope that's where this ends up, too.

    DarkPrimusMan in the Mistsnever dieLord_AsmodeusMatev
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Technically it's for FY-2019

    WELL MONIKER ITS HAPPENING IN 2018 OK

    Hopefully only just.

    Mill
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2018
    SCHUMER wrote:
    When the president brags that he won North Dakota and Indiana, he’s in real trouble.

    Senate minority leader got his hits in

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    XaquinBucketmanElvenshaeShadowhopeElldren
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2018
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Is it wrong that I planned a vacation under the assumption that the govt was going to shut down?

    PLAKristmas KthulhuRickRudeOrcaLovelyNogsAresProphetShadowhopeNobeardThawmusautono-wally, erotibot300MatevJohn C. TurbineBlameless ClericJansonemp123
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    As posted above the transcript annotated can be found at the Washington Post

    The full transcript, includes the video

    The video:


    The Dem press conference afterwards with what are probably the main talking points from the Dems:


    That should catch most folks up.

    03x29di.png
    PreacherFencingsaxMorganVjimb213shrykeNo-QuarterBucketmanElvenshaeFoolOnTheHillmonikerCommander Zoomjkylefultonnever dieStabbity StyleKoopahTroopahLord_AsmodeusElldrenThawmusMatevemp123
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    SCHUMER wrote:
    When the president brags that he won North Dakota and Indiana, he’s in real trouble.

    Senate minority leader got his hits in

    I can already hear the cries from the midwest about coastal elites hating the midwest. This was not as good a burn as some people want us to believe it was. It may be a political truth, but this felt like Schumer stepping on his own toes while saying the quiet part out loud.

    DisrupterLostNinjamcp
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    SCHUMER wrote:
    When the president brags that he won North Dakota and Indiana, he’s in real trouble.

    Senate minority leader got his hits in

    I can already hear the cries from the midwest about coastal elites hating the midwest. This was not as good a burn as some people want us to believe it was. It may be a political truth, but this felt like Schumer stepping on his own toes while saying the quiet part out loud.

    But they are going to hate the “costal elites” anyway. Might as well force Trump to confront reality one way or another. There’s no way to explain to Trump that the GOP gaining 2 Senate seats in a year that heavily favored them isn’t something to brag about.

    QanamilElvenshaemonikerGennenalyse RuebenHeirMan in the Mistsjkylefultonnever diejmcdonaldStabbity StylejdarksunMagellLord_AsmodeusElldrenMatevemp123
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    How about we don’t fund the wall and we don’t shut down

    Trump is going to get a bill and is going to veto it. The problem is who’s going to blink first to break it-
    a few Republicans to override the veto or
    Trump, who is already Thelma and Louising with his tariffs or
    Dems

    Lovely
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    How about we don’t fund the wall and we don’t shut down

    Trump is going to get a bill and is going to veto it. The problem is who’s going to blink first to break it-
    a few Republicans to override the veto or
    Trump, who is already Thelma and Louising with his tariffs or
    Dems

    dems

    ShortySyphonBlueSleepAistanBucketmanBloodySlothCaedwyrAbsoluteZeroSmrtnikTetraNitroCubaneStabbity StyleMagellMegaMektemplewulf
  • CantideCantide Registered User regular
    I don't know if I see Democrats backing down now, at least not for a few weeks. If a shutdown happens and lasts until the new House is seated in January, then they will have even more influence in negotations. It seems like that would be worth any bad spin the Republicans try to put on it, especially with Trump providing all these nice sound bites about how he owns this shutdown.

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  • AutomautocratesAutomautocrates Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    How about we don’t fund the wall and we don’t shut down

    Trump is going to get a bill and is going to veto it. The problem is who’s going to blink first to break it-
    a few Republicans to override the veto or
    Trump, who is already Thelma and Louising with his tariffs or
    Dems

    Not dems.
    (damn you Cantide I planned this for a year)

    Automautocrates on
    The dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of the pleasant falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into commonplaces, but which all experience refutes.
    -John Stuart Mill
    Cantide
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I’m having a hard time seeing enough Rs or Trump folding...perhaps someone can convince Trump of a way to make it seem like he wins?

    SleepTetraNitroCubaneLovelyErlkönig
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Xaquin wrote: »
    How about we don’t fund the wall and we don’t shut down

    Trump is going to get a bill and is going to veto it. The problem is who’s going to blink first to break it-
    a few Republicans to override the veto or
    Trump, who is already Thelma and Louising with his tariffs or
    Dems

    dems

    Outside of general cynicism what makes you think this is true?

    Is it the fact that the Dems won seats campaigning exactly against paying for the wall?

    The fact the Dems have a compromise plan already which is ready to pass if the votes come up?

    Or is it just a general belief that they are spineless and 10 Dem Senators and X house members to make up for the Republicans who do not want to vote for the 5 billion will swap on an off year with 0 elections right before the party gains power for the first time in 2 years?

    Like legitimately who is going to to blink? Which senators and representatives will give? And why?

    Mazzyx on
    03x29di.png
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  • AutomautocratesAutomautocrates Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I’m having a hard time seeing enough Rs or Trump folding...perhaps someone can convince Trump of a way to make it seem like he wins?

    So.. tell Trump to tweet that he won? No matter what? Like he will anyway? His base will believe it, that's all he needs.
    He's gonna fold.

    Automautocrates on
    The dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of the pleasant falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into commonplaces, but which all experience refutes.
    -John Stuart Mill
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Giving in on the wall is political suicide for Dems. Trump campaigned exclusively on the wall during the election and lost. Caving on the wall, which the entire Democratic base thinks is stupid, will cause voter turnout to plummet. I really hope they aren't that stupid

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Dems are in a position of overwhelming strength, so don’t confuse what I’m asking about for cynicism.

    This might be a long shutdown y’all!

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    The economy is already on extremely shaky ground thanks to the tariffs and tax bill. A prolonged shut down with the ~22 million government workers having no income and not spending money could significantly speed up the coming crash.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Dems are in a position of overwhelming strength, so don’t confuse what I’m asking about for cynicism.

    This might be a long shutdown y’all!

    I wasn't

    like it or not, when a toddler throws shit all over, people blame the parents because toddlers are toddlers and it's up to the grown ups to control them.

    In this case, half the country is egging the toddlers on but will still blame the parents no matter what. Meanwhile the parent's just want to not have to clean up a bunch of crap.

    SleepBloodySloth
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    wait, I thought the new crop of reps hadn't been seated yet? so is it really that hard for the republicans to agree on how shittily they want to govern?

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
  • CantideCantide Registered User regular
    How about we don’t fund the wall and we don’t shut down

    Trump is going to get a bill and is going to veto it. The problem is who’s going to blink first to break it-
    a few Republicans to override the veto or
    Trump, who is already Thelma and Louising with his tariffs or
    Dems

    Not dems.
    (damn you Cantide I planned this for a year)

    Only a year? Better luck next time.

    Automautocrates
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    wait, I thought the new crop of reps hadn't been seated yet? so is it really that hard for the republicans to agree on how shittily they want to govern?

    historically, yes!

    BucketmanElvenshaekimeVishNubButtersMoridin889MegaMekJoolanderElldrenTofystedethGnome-Interruptus
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    wait, I thought the new crop of reps hadn't been seated yet? so is it really that hard for the republicans to agree on how shittily they want to govern?

    Yes.

    Also what's funny is a large part of the rebellion is the Freedom Caucus who is like, "WE DON'T WANT TO SPEND ANY MORE MONEY RAWR!" Also there is a large group of Republicans who just lost for this exact shit that may not be inclined to vote for it.

    03x29di.png
    FencingsaxmonikerElldren
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    As posted above the transcript annotated can be found at the Washington Post

    The full transcript, includes the video

    The video:


    The Dem press conference afterwards with what are probably the main talking points from the Dems:


    That should catch most folks up.

    People should seriously at least skim this for a bit. Because you can see the exact moment Pelosi just baits the shit out of him. Hell, Schumer basically gently smacks him down to start the whole thing off by flat out refusing to go along with his bullshit say-anything-to-look-good act in front of the press. That starts him going and then Pelosi jumps in and just pokes him in the eye over and over again till he starts melting down.

    I have no clue if they planned this or not but I think Pelosi at least saw a good opening and went for it.

    And Trump is such a goddamn child, it's pathetic. His body language and everything is just so immature.

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This discussion has been closed.