US Govt Shutdown 2018: It's a Trump Christmas Shutdown!

Doodmann

What a deliciously totalitarian word recalcitrant is too.

Martini_Philosopher

Doodmann wrote: »

What a deliciously totalitarian word recalcitrant is too.

This is what? Point 5 on the outline of heading into fascism? Labeling everyone not on your political side as the enemy.

Henroid

Yeah I have to hand it to Dobbs, I had to look in a fucking dictionary to get the full scope of what he was saying. I wonder if he intends for it to admit that he wants authoritarianism in the USA.

RedTide

Henroid wrote: »

Yeah I have to hand it to Dobbs, I had to look in a fucking dictionary to get the full scope of what he was saying. I wonder if he intends for it to admit that he wants authoritarianism in the USA.

One party apartheid state I'd guess.

dispatch.o

Fox News is poison. It's a corrupted vitriol spewing partisan mechanism that actively harms everyone. I don't particularly like network or cable news but I don't feel attacked by anyone else.

I'm at such a loss as to how Fox got to start directly influencing policy. I get how on a practical sort of level but I can't appropriately store it as a fact in my brain.

That the GOP actually uses a cable network to float lies as truth 24 hours a day in an effort to subvert government is just gross. That it's taken hold with people I used to consider of at least average intelligence feels like defeat.

I need a whole lot of rage from Democratic leaders right now and acknowledgement from other networks that Fox isn't fucking news.

Are there any press conferences scheduled for Democrats in the House or Senate to respond to Trump and his Sundowner madlibs?

Edit: The moderate right is on board with a bunch of shit that you would NEVER hear outside of fundamental militia crazies just 5 years ago. How did it go so to shit so quickly?

..that's rhetorical, we all know how. That it's so open and out there now makes me want to smash things.

MuddBudd

At least some of the Right has been wanting one party rule for decades. They've been trying their damnedest to do it.

That's why this shutdown terrifies me a bit. Because at some point they will realize if they just let most of the government wither away, it's easier to fully take over. All it would take is for someone to whisper a bit more poison in the Presidents ear. Because Trump would do it.

-edit-

If at some point we can't get enough pressure on Congress to end this bullshit, it may end up a de facto coup.

Javen

It's entirely predictable for a side that knows it's outnumbered to phalanx each other and use advantageous circumstances to attempt to defeat a larger opponent.

What we're seeing is a form of Greece vs the Persian army at Thermopylae. The GOP knows it doesn't command the numbers to get what they want, and not all of them agree with Trump, but they're making a calculated decision that divided, they would be utterly obliterated, so they're holding their noses and trying to weather the storm. Which is just another reason why Democrats shouldn't budge an inch.

Mild Confusion

So, our beloved leader had an interview this morning with regard to the wall and the shutdown.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-marine-one-departure-30/

Here’s a fantastic example of his leadership style with a choice quote:

Q Does the buck stop with you over this shutdown?

THE PRESIDENT: The buck stops with everybody.

Hmmm, what say you Trump from 2012 and 2013?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/250975772083380226?s=20

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/398887965302091776?s=20

Interesting

tinwhiskers

One thing that might help end this is that for as against big government as GOP voters claim to be, southern states and rural areas are especially dependent on federal programs.

This thing is already fucking farmers who already took a beating because of the idiots trade war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


That said there are the true believers

David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

“I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said.

While there's something ghoulishly satisfying about these idiots getting dog catches car'd. All the other people their dumb asses hurt, dont deserve this.

manwiththemachinegun

dispatch.o wrote: »

Fox News is poison. It's a corrupted vitriol spewing partisan mechanism that actively harms everyone. I don't particularly like network or cable news but I don't feel attacked by anyone else.

I'm at such a loss as to how Fox got to start directly influencing policy. I get how on practical sort of level but I can't appropriately store it as a fact in my brain.

That the GOP actually uses a cable network to float lies as truth 24 hours a day in an effort to subvert government is just gross. That it's taken hold with people I used to consider of at least average intelligence feels like defeat.

I need a whole lot of rage from Democratic leaders right now and acknowledgement from other networks that Fox isn't fucking news.

Are there any press conferences scheduled for Democrats in the House or Senate to respond to Trump and his Sundowner madlibs?

Edit: The moderate right is on board with a bunch of shit that you would NEVER hear outside of fundamental militia crazies just 5 years ago. How did it go so to shit so quickly?

..that's rhetorical, we all know how. That it's so open and out there now makes me want to smash things.

You may balk at using games to describe this kind of phenomena, but I understood the problem best through MGS2.

Rose: We've always kept records of our lives. Through words, pictures, symbols... from tablets to books...
But not all the information was inherited by later generations.
Colonel: A small percentage of the whole was selected and processed, then passed on. Not unlike genes, really.
Rose: That's what history is, Jack.
Colonel: But in the current, digitized world,
trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness.
Never fading, always accessible.
Rose: Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander...
Colonel: All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate.
Rose: It will only slow down social progress, reduce the rate of evolution.
Colonel: Raiden, you seem to think that our plan is one of censorship.
Raiden: Are you telling me it's not!?
Rose: You're being silly! What we propose to do is not to control content, but to create context.
Raiden: Create context?
Colonel: The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards
development of convenient half-truths.
Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.
Rose: Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely murder other humans.
Colonel: Rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims.
Rose: Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species.
Everyone grows up being told the same thing.
Colonel: Be nice to other people.
Rose: But beat out the competition!
Colonel: "You're special." "Believe in yourself and you will succeed."
Rose: But it's obvious from the start that only a few can succeed...
Colonel: You exercise your right to "freedom" and this is the result.
All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt.
The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate
in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems.
Rose: Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum.
They stay inside their little ponds,
leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.
Colonel: The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh.
No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.
Rose: Not even natural selection can take place here. The world is being engulfed in "truth."
Colonel: And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

tinwhiskers

That article reminds me, if you are able to do so now would be a good time to donate to your local food pantry. Especially if this drags on to the point it effects SNAP benefits.

RickRude

Did anyone think this thread would make 100 pages? The United states everyone ! *sinks head in shame*

RedTide

tinwhiskers wrote: »

One thing that might help end this is that for as against big government as GOP voters claim to be, southern states and rural areas are especially dependent on federal programs.

This thing is already fucking farmers who already took a beating because of the idiots trade war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


That said there are the true believers

David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

“I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said.

While there's something ghoulishly satisfying about these idiots getting dog catches car'd. All the other people their dumb asses hurt, dont deserve this.

That's a guy who believes that in the end good old Donald is gonna come through.

Ask him again when the first notice to vacate shows up.

chrisnl

The thing that infuriates me most about that Lou Dobbs clip (and boy is there a lot to be mad about) is how he says that the "recalcitrant left" has obstructed for too long now! Like what, a flippin' week? Where was the outrage over obstruction when Merrick Garland's nomination was ignored for a damn year? Screw you, Lou Dobbs, I wish you'd get off the television and never return.

ElJeffe

HEY FOLKS, WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING THE NEWS MEDIA, INCLUDING FOX NEWS. WE ARE NOT ALSO NOT POSTING LONG EXCERPTS FROM METAL GEAR FREAKING SOLID.

I'M GOING TO START THROWING INFRACTIONS.

Dhalphir

RedTide wrote: »

tinwhiskers wrote: »

One thing that might help end this is that for as against big government as GOP voters claim to be, southern states and rural areas are especially dependent on federal programs.

This thing is already fucking farmers who already took a beating because of the idiots trade war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


That said there are the true believers

David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

“I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said.

While there's something ghoulishly satisfying about these idiots getting dog catches car'd. All the other people their dumb asses hurt, dont deserve this.

That's a guy who believes that in the end good old Donald is gonna come through.

Ask him again when the first notice to vacate shows up.

or he's hoping that a public expression of loyalty will get him personal financial attention from the fuhrer

Spoit

ElJeffe wrote: »

I'm think Trump might declare an emergency, then keep the government closed until ground breaks on his wall. Tell Congress that they can either pass funding for his wall and reopen the government immediately, or wait until it works its way through the courts. But either way he's getting his wall, so they may as well avert needless suffering.

I'm thinking he will probably try to make it sound less like "I'm going to keep inflicting pain on people until I get my way." I'm also thinking he'll probably fail at making it sound better.

Jesus, this guy is a fucking monster.

Even if he just sidestepped the whole graft soliciting bids for walls step and had the Army Corps of Engineers construct it directly right now, wouldn't that still take months before they break ground?

RickRude

I truly have no clue how and when this ends when I think about it. I don't see trump backing down just because of the press and visuals. The guy can't take a loss, and is going to do anything he can so that he can say he won. He's not going to accept nothing.

It's going to fall on senate Republicans to pass the bill with a veto proof majority isn't it? Could you imagine if Obama would have held the government hostage over health care? They'd be screaming that we don't have a king/dictator. Yet these sleaze balls are endorsing the president taking the government hostage for a stupid fucking wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for.

I'm glad in some ways I'm unemployed and not working for the DoD right now. I would be working and considered essential, doing nothing, and a lot more pissed off than I am now. And I'm probably already already already unhealthy rage level.

TheBigEasy

tinwhiskers wrote: »

One thing that might help end this is that for as against big government as GOP voters claim to be, southern states and rural areas are especially dependent on federal programs.

This thing is already fucking farmers who already took a beating because of the idiots trade war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


That said there are the true believers

David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

“I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said.

While there's something ghoulishly satisfying about these idiots getting dog catches car'd. All the other people their dumb asses hurt, dont deserve this.

This is nearly the same as the "He doesn't hurt the people he needs to be hurting" quote a few days ago. I simply do not understand this mindset. "Hey, I might lose my farm because of the idiot in the white house, but as long as some brown people thousands of miles away are getting hurt, it is a-ok"

Jephery

TheBigEasy wrote: »

tinwhiskers wrote: »

One thing that might help end this is that for as against big government as GOP voters claim to be, southern states and rural areas are especially dependent on federal programs.

This thing is already fucking farmers who already took a beating because of the idiots trade war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


That said there are the true believers

David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

“I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said.

While there's something ghoulishly satisfying about these idiots getting dog catches car'd. All the other people their dumb asses hurt, dont deserve this.

This is nearly the same as the "He doesn't hurt the people he needs to be hurting" quote a few days ago. I simply do not understand this mindset. "Hey, I might lose my farm because of the idiot in the white house, but as long as some brown people thousands of miles away are getting hurt, it is a-ok"

Anyone can be indoctrinated by people they trust. The people these guys they trust and respect (Fox News and Republicans) tell them that Mexicans are a problem. For some reason, they trust them to be honest with them. They might also be culturally inclined to distrust the unfamiliar.

klemming

So if the President declares a state of emergency, what kind of justification does he have to give? Who can overrule him and say 'no, not getting to do whatever you want is not an emergency'?
Would this be a supreme court thing, or a congress/house thing?

daveNYC

klemming wrote: »

So if the President declares a state of emergency, what kind of justification does he have to give? Who can overrule him and say 'no, not getting to do whatever you want is not an emergency'?
Would this be a supreme court thing, or a congress/house thing?

This would have to be a SCOTUS thing since the Senate isn't going to do a damn thing about anything from what I can see. Theoretically, congress could pass a law curtailing the president's power, but that's just not going to happen.

Henroid

klemming wrote: »

So if the President declares a state of emergency, what kind of justification does he have to give? Who can overrule him and say 'no, not getting to do whatever you want is not an emergency'?
Would this be a supreme court thing, or a congress/house thing?

People spoke about filing injunctions in court or some such but I dunno the exact mechanisms. If it's possible to do such a thing Trump is gonna have a hard time defending it because he has, many times, publicly said that the emergency declaration would be made if the quid pro quo didn't work out. Meaning it's not an emergency at all.

P10

he also made it clear the muslim ban was a muslim ban but that got ruled constitutional, so I wouldn't place any faith in the courts

Astaereth

TheBigEasy wrote: »

tinwhiskers wrote: »

One thing that might help end this is that for as against big government as GOP voters claim to be, southern states and rural areas are especially dependent on federal programs.

This thing is already fucking farmers who already took a beating because of the idiots trade war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


That said there are the true believers

David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

“I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said.

While there's something ghoulishly satisfying about these idiots getting dog catches car'd. All the other people their dumb asses hurt, dont deserve this.

This is nearly the same as the "He doesn't hurt the people he needs to be hurting" quote a few days ago. I simply do not understand this mindset. "Hey, I might lose my farm because of the idiot in the white house, but as long as some brown people thousands of miles away are getting hurt, it is a-ok"

A) racism was literally invented by the rich to get poor farmers to ignore their best interests
“what do you think?” is a different question when it’s being asked by the national media of the enemy

TheBigEasy

Astaereth wrote: »

TheBigEasy wrote: »

tinwhiskers wrote: »

One thing that might help end this is that for as against big government as GOP voters claim to be, southern states and rural areas are especially dependent on federal programs.

This thing is already fucking farmers who already took a beating because of the idiots trade war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


That said there are the true believers

David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

“I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said.

While there's something ghoulishly satisfying about these idiots getting dog catches car'd. All the other people their dumb asses hurt, dont deserve this.

This is nearly the same as the "He doesn't hurt the people he needs to be hurting" quote a few days ago. I simply do not understand this mindset. "Hey, I might lose my farm because of the idiot in the white house, but as long as some brown people thousands of miles away are getting hurt, it is a-ok"

A) racism was literally invented by the rich to get poor farmers to ignore their best interests
“what do you think?” is a different question when it’s being asked by the national media of the enemy

I guess I just don't understand the concept of racism or "othering" at all.

CelestialBadger

It’s amazing how farmers are so tough they can lose a finger in a thresher and keep on working, but so terrified of refugees thousands of miles away that they will never see that they vote themselves into the poorhouse to get rid of them.

TheBigEasy

CelestialBadger wrote: »

It’s amazing how farmers are so tough they can lose a finger in a thresher and keep on working, but so terrified of refugees thousands of miles away that they will never see that they vote themselves into the poorhouse to get rid of them.

Besides, isn't farming the biggest employer of illegal immigrants in the US (or maybe it restaurants)?

daveNYC

TheBigEasy wrote: »

CelestialBadger wrote: »

It’s amazing how farmers are so tough they can lose a finger in a thresher and keep on working, but so terrified of refugees thousands of miles away that they will never see that they vote themselves into the poorhouse to get rid of them.

Besides, isn't farming the biggest employer of illegal immigrants in the US (or maybe it restaurants)?

As a percentage of total employees I'd guess farming wins that prize. There's also the meat packing industry, which is farming adjacent and has ludicrous numbers of immigrants in the mix.

Bowen

TheBigEasy wrote: »

tinwhiskers wrote: »

One thing that might help end this is that for as against big government as GOP voters claim to be, southern states and rural areas are especially dependent on federal programs.

This thing is already fucking farmers who already took a beating because of the idiots trade war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


That said there are the true believers

David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

“I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said.

While there's something ghoulishly satisfying about these idiots getting dog catches car'd. All the other people their dumb asses hurt, dont deserve this.

This is nearly the same as the "He doesn't hurt the people he needs to be hurting" quote a few days ago. I simply do not understand this mindset. "Hey, I might lose my farm because of the idiot in the white house, but as long as some brown people thousands of miles away are getting hurt, it is a-ok"

The ironic part is no brown people are going to get hurt by a wall anyways.

TetraNitroCubane

It's really looking like the GOP line is "This is a Crisis and we need to give the POTUS emergency powers immediately!" More people are coming out of the woodwork saying it's the only way to get around the Democrats.

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1083513840418066432

Lindsey Graham is a US Senator, and also a real piece of shit.

Solar

Can he even build the wall with emergency powers? It seems like the understanding is he can't, and surely Graham knows this?

manwiththemachinegun

Just full on Palpatine huh?

Snake Gandhi

TetraNitroCubane wrote: »

It's really looking like the GOP line is "This is a Crisis and we need to give the POTUS emergency powers immediately!" More people are coming out of the woodwork saying it's the only way to get around the Democrats.

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1083513840418066432

Lindsey Graham is a US Senator, and also a real piece of shit.

This is beginning to remind my of the Star Wars prequels, and not in a good way.

klemming

Solar wrote: »

Can he even build the wall with emergency powers? It seems like the understanding is he can't, and surely Graham knows this?

Could he be hoping that he'll declare it just so they can end the shutdown, then let the fallout come down squarely on Trump's head?

davidsdurions

Building a wall will take at the very least months and months to construct. It is not a solution to what any person would deem an emergency.

TetraNitroCubane

davidsdurions wrote: »

Building a wall will take at the very least months and months to construct. It is not a solution to what any person would deem an emergency.

Cognitive dissonance never stopped them before.

They are framing the issue as a "Crisis" specifically to justify declaring an emergency. No one with a scrap of sense would agree that this is an emergency, but they're angling to set it up to be one in the eyes of their base. It lets them weasel out of the shutdown without looking like they lost, and it expands the executive powers yet again.

At this point, the GOP just want to give Trump his pacifier, and they'll do anything to make sure he's happy.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

nexuscrawler

If this can be declared an emergency what can't be declared an emergency

lack of healthcare kills far more Americans than immigrants ever will. So in 2022 when president Warren decides to take military money to build hospitals that'd be ok right?

Mazzyx

Graham said that yesterday too. And it is because he knows there is no other way to reopen the government outside of Congress overriding a veto which is the kiss of death for all of the Congressional Republicans. Though that is the legitimate and constitutional way out of this crisis.

Also the pain for workers is real.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/10/now-craigslist-facebook-household-items-furloughed-workers-trying-make-ends-meet/?utm_term=.71162aea1520