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Penny Arcade - Comic - ‘Tis Better

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited January 18 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - Comic - ‘Tis Better

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here


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Posts

  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    So what have we had since EA acquired the Star Wars license? Just two garbage fire Battlefront games, yeah? At some point maybe Disney should start paying more attention to brand perception when it comes to Star Wars videogames...

    Also, There's... something on the wing!

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
  • FriendFiveFriendFive Registered User regular
    some...THING!

    GreenH3Knuckles
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I don't know the specifics of the EA Star Wars publishing deal, other than I seem to recall that it's a 10 year agreement. But surely EA is under some sort of obligation to provide X number of games within that 10 years? And I would assume that Disney would be rather upset with them for only releasing two really poorly received AAA titles within that time frame. I'm no legal person, but if I was Disney, I'd be looking for money and damages. That's time wasted. We're 6 years into the publishing deal and I'm sure they've made crap to show for it.

    H3Knuckles
  • PohtHehdPohtHehd Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    So what have we had since EA acquired the Star Wars license? Just two garbage fire Battlefront games, yeah?..

    The Star Wars games EA has created and published have been some of the most financially successful games in the Star Wars video game lineage. If people didn't buy whatever nonsense with "Star Wars" across the front then this would probably not be the case. But they do and it is and EA knows it. So, calling these games "garbage fire" seems a little..uninformed when the numbers show us quite a different story.

    Indeed, many people would like to jump on the bandwagon by getting flustered over EA's business practices and marketing but EA never fails to extract massive amounts of money and it is not as if they are stealing that from people. People actually give it willingly and so EA will continue to make "garbage fire" because that is clearly what people want.
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    ...Disney should start paying more attention to brand perception when it comes to Star Wars...

    ...why? They make millions every year from it. From the movies and from cross-promotion like toys and video games. You act like Star Wars games have been historically good and that is patently false. They have all been staggeringly mediocre with very few being considered good.


    PohtHehd on
    SynthesiscB557Djiem
  • sawellssawells Registered User regular
    The thing on the wing is going to show up in Ravnica...

    Twitter: @EssayWells
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    PohtHehd wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    So what have we had since EA acquired the Star Wars license? Just two garbage fire Battlefront games, yeah?..

    The Star Wars games EA has created and published have been some of the most financially successful games in the Star Wars video game lineage. If people didn't buy whatever nonsense with "Star Wars" across the front then this would probably not be the case. But they do and it is and EA knows it. So, calling these games "garbage fire" seems a little..uninformed when the numbers show us quite a different story.

    Indeed, many people would like to jump on the bandwagon by getting flustered over EA's business practices and marketing but EA never fails to extract massive amounts of money and it is not as if they are stealing that from people. People actually give it willingly and so EA will continue to make "garbage fire" because that is clearly what people want.
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    ...Disney should start paying more attention to brand perception when it comes to Star Wars...

    ...why? They make millions every year from it. From the movies and from cross-promotion like toys and video games. You act like Star Wars games have been historically good and that is patently false. They have all been staggeringly mediocre with very few being considered good.


    o7 XWing vs Tiefighter

  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    No, I'm pretty well informed on how much of a dumpster fire those two Battlefront games were.

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
    NotoriusBEN
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    I mean, sure, LucasArts of yore produced one of the greatest space combat sims ever--TIE Fighter--and a really good first person shooter--Dark Forces II--and a darn good single-player RPG--Knights of the Old Republic--but each one of those is outnumbered by much more mediocre titles. That seems to be the nature of the franchise.
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I don't know the specifics of the EA Star Wars publishing deal, other than I seem to recall that it's a 10 year agreement. But surely EA is under some sort of obligation to provide X number of games within that 10 years? And I would assume that Disney would be rather upset with them for only releasing two really poorly received AAA titles within that time frame. I'm no legal person, but if I was Disney, I'd be looking for money and damages. That's time wasted. We're 6 years into the publishing deal and I'm sure they've made crap to show for it.

    The nature of secret agreements is what makes this so fun--but personally, I don't think they are.

    They were presumably under some obligation to make a Star Wars game--with the long-winded approval process on Disney's end met--which they did. Twice.

    This could certainly influence Disney's decision if they want to extend that agreement, or maintain exclusivity, but...I don't think we've seen anything to actually suggest Disney is going to pursue any immediately punitive measures for EA's almost-but-profitable fuckups.

    Of course, tomorrow, the headlines could be busting all over Kotaku and Polygon and prove me wrong.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
    H3Knuckles
  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    edited January 18
    PohtHehd wrote: »
    The Star Wars games EA has created and published have been some of the most financially successful games in the Star Wars video game lineage. If people didn't buy whatever nonsense with "Star Wars" across the front then this would probably not be the case. But they do and it is and EA knows it. So, calling these games "garbage fire" seems a little..uninformed when the numbers show us quite a different story.

    Popularity =/= Quality. If it did Twilight would have never gotten past book 1 and nobody would remember who Ayn Rand even was.

    And by your own admission, people would buy anything with a Star Wars label on it. Well, except Super Bombad Racing, but that's another story.

    Honestly at the point EA have been handling the franchise, no news of an EA Star Wars game short of "We're going to just straight up make HD versions of KOTOR 1 and 2, and Disney is approving it meaning HK-47 is canon now" is going to be met with nothing but eyerolls at best and angry yawns at worst.

    OctoberRaven on
    Currently Most Hype For: Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding
    Currently Playing: Dragon Ball Xenoverse
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    I'm not going to lie, when my RSS showed me the update with just the title and a weird placeholder image, I thought the comic was suddenly ending and/or someone was dead.

  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Popularity =/= Quality. If it did Twilight would have never gotten past book 1 and nobody would remember who Ayn Rand even was.

    Quality = What one specific person thinks of a work
    Popularity = The average Quality of a work in a given time period

    We're not talking the immutable laws of physics here.

    cB557
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    So I don't know how much I want to delve into a conversation that is already needlessly hostile, but...

    If I were to talk to any of my family about Battlefront, and they said, "hey, that looks pretty cool, like you can be in Star Wars!" They are not going to understand a rant about loot boxes and pay to win or anything. So I highly doubtful whoever manages Disney's IP deals cares either. Letting EA make Battlefront put Stormtroopers on signs and shelves. Battlefront's failings are a big deal in the circles where they are a big deal, but not universally cared about.

    H3KnucklesSmrtnik
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    PohtHehd wrote: »
    The Star Wars games EA has created and published have been some of the most financially successful games in the Star Wars video game lineage. If people didn't buy whatever nonsense with "Star Wars" across the front then this would probably not be the case. But they do and it is and EA knows it. So, calling these games "garbage fire" seems a little..uninformed when the numbers show us quite a different story.

    Popularity =/= Quality. If it did Twilight would have never gotten past book 1 and nobody would remember who Ayn Rand even was.

    And by your own admission, people would buy anything with a Star Wars label on it. Well, except Super Bombad Racing, but that's another story.

    Honestly at the point EA have been handling the franchise, no news of an EA Star Wars game short of "We're going to just straight up make HD versions of KOTOR 1 and 2, and Disney is approving it meaning HK-47 is canon now" is going to be met with nothing but eyerolls at best and angry yawns at worst.

    In my secret 2AM thoughts there is a high production values managed-PvP MMO adaptation of Tie Fighter/X-W and I say goodbye to my family

    H3Knuckles
  • ani_game_bumani_game_bum Optimistic Keyblade Warrior Always staring towards the distance...Registered User regular
    Awesome the Twilight Zone reference; not the mess that is transpiring between EA and the Star Wars IP.

    Probably a very generalized comparison (and it's lunchtime so I'm hungry) but it's like no one can ever agree on what kind of toppings to put on the Star Wars pizza. Ever.

    Eventually a combination of something (let's say the Smuggler, Politics, and Arms Dealing toppings) is put on the pie just so there is something there other than the base layer (the general SW lore). Some will appreciate that kind of pizza, but it not good enough for at least 80% of the consumers according to the current pizza store manager. So trash the pie before it gets to the oven, start over with a basic pie, and be sure to add the red lightsaber topping next time because that is what the people want.

    steam_sig.png

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    H3Knuckles
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    Also, There's... something on the wing!

    2e4vu5z.jpg

    It... it's a monster! Some kind of monster! It...!

    Oh, wait, no. Now that I look closer...

    470046148.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1

    Yeah, whew, it's just Chewbacca.

    pod_banner.jpg
    italianranmaH3Knuckles
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Having bought and played a fair amount of BF1, I found it's shortcomings to not be the same as what most of the community complained about. I thought they map content they delivered was pretty good, and the shooting and flying felt good.

    What felt bad to me were the ways in which hero power-up spawned and the way in which vehicle power-ups spawned. And how people were able to just camp them.

    I always felt that the old original Battlefront's (1 and 2) biggest strength was that it let you experience those battles as the little man. Yes, Battlefront 2 (original) had hero modes, but the heroes were contained to those modes, and the main galactic conquest modes and stuff had heroes turned off by default. I think heroes kind of ruin the purity of the battles.

    The other big fault with Battlefront 1 (the new one) was the weapon unlocks, and how easy it was to obtain that seeker rocket, and how that single weapon completely invalidated skill and any other unlocks.

    Battlefront 2 (the new one) had a boring campaign, an even greater emphasis on heroes, and then of course it had a terrible progression system that was first tied to loot boxes, then not balanced correctly for the first 2 months of the game when they knee-jerked the loot boxes out but did not rebalance the progression system. It took that game forever to find a good place, and by the time it did, it had been long deleted from my PS4.

  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Yeah for all the shit it got, I played, and enjoyed, a hell of a lot of the first EA Battlefront. I have a lot of good memories of that one, actually. Never even picked up the second game, which I was sad about at first, but there's so much stuff out there that it's hard to feel like I'm missing out on something.

  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Popularity =/= Quality. If it did Twilight would have never gotten past book 1 and nobody would remember who Ayn Rand even was.

    Quality = What one specific person thinks of a work
    Popularity = The average Quality of a work in a given time period

    We're not talking the immutable laws of physics here.

    By that "logic", then the Battlefront games are extremely poor quality, given how unpopular the franchise has become.

    Anyway my point was that sales don't prove quality. Especially when it comes to launch and pre-order sales.
    V1m wrote: »
    In my secret 2AM thoughts there is a high production values managed-PvP MMO adaptation of Tie Fighter/X-W and I say goodbye to my family

    Or that, though I'm not too big on multiplayer so I wouldn't be too enthused personally. EA has to prove they've learned their lessons though and IMO they really haven't yet.

    Currently Most Hype For: Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding
    Currently Playing: Dragon Ball Xenoverse
    H3Knuckles
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    By that "logic", then the Battlefront games are extremely poor quality, given how unpopular the franchise has become.

    Yes. 100% Correct.

    Though you were the one who used the term "quality" and I just followed suite. It's a loaded word, but mainly because it's a concept that has no basis in reality when people use it as if is objective rather than just subjective personal opinion.

    It's much in the same way that people claim something is "overrated", which really means "I don't like it and too many other people like it, so there must be some objective way in which it is bad so I can be right."

    dennis on
    H3Knuckles
  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    dennis wrote: »

    Though you were the one who used the term "quality" and I just followed suite.

    That's very selective reasoning, given the context of my original post was directly in response to a statement correlating quality to financial success.

    Also, again:
    Anyway my point was that sales don't prove quality. Especially when it comes to launch and pre-order sales.

    Currently Most Hype For: Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding
    Currently Playing: Dragon Ball Xenoverse
    H3Knuckles
  • touchstonetouchstone Registered User new member
    But...this is about Star Wars. And thing on the wing => Twilight Zone => Shatner => Star Trek. Does not compute!

  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »

    Though you were the one who used the term "quality" and I just followed suite.

    That's very selective reasoning, given the context of my original post was directly in response to a statement correlating quality to financial success.

    Also, again:
    Anyway my point was that sales don't prove quality. Especially when it comes to launch and pre-order sales.

    Well, the problem is you're using a term that is a single subjective term and applying it to an aggregate. There's no way it's going to stand on its own, logically.

    But we can agree to disagree on this one.

  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Again, the conversation about quality started with a guess that Disney would be mad about EA using their IP for bad games. So yeah, quality is subjective and can mean lots of different things. But in the context of this discussion, the point is what metric *Disney* would use to determine whether their IP was being handled to their liking. Do you expect that will be "is the game good?" "is the game artistic?" or "does the game make money?"

    Twilight being successful may not make it a good book. But I'm sure the publisher isn't all upset that the book that made them tons of money just happens to suck.

    NotoriusBENH3KnucklesDjiem
  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    I think, perhaps, Dennis might be fighting against the trend I'm seeing in this conversation where people toss out claims like "this series is of poor quality" or "that book sucks" with all the confidence of someone who is certain the vast majority of people agree with them.

    As amazing as it will sound to some people, I'm sure there are still many, many people who think the new Battlefront games are great fun and of excellent quality. (For another shocker, I'm sure there are plenty who think the Twilight books do not suck. I've never read them nor seen the movies, so I have no opinion there.)

    This is just the typical internet behavior where people find a community that echoes their beliefs and then suddenly they assume that this tiny little slice of humanity represents the greater whole. I don't feel you can even argue statistics to justify that belief because, as I said, some people seek out these places. Who hasn't gone online after experiencing something just to see if others mirror their own opinions?

    To quote Gabe in a D&D themed comic: "D&D sucks now. I'm going to go online and argue about it."

    At any rate, I'm sure everyone is already formulating their responses about how I'm missing the point, so have at it. I've probably said my piece for this conversation though. ;)

    RatherDashing89denniscB557H3Knuckles
  • platypusdanielsplatypusdaniels Registered User new member
    I didnt like new battlefront but I know a lot of people that did. I also know people that liked 2. It is strange how often you see people espousing how bad they were and how they were colossal failures. When they didnt do as well as EA hoped but they were nowhere near failures. Just because gaming folk on the internet didnt like something doesnt mean it was universally reviled.

    BloodySlothcB557
  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    edited January 19
    dennis wrote: »
    Well, the problem is you're using a term that is a single subjective term and applying it to an aggregate. There's no way it's going to stand on its own, logically.
    MarcinMN wrote: »
    I think, perhaps, Dennis might be fighting against the trend I'm seeing in this conversation where people toss out claims like "this series is of poor quality" or "that book sucks" with all the confidence of someone who is certain the vast majority of people agree with them.

    Okay I'm not good with this BBCode thing, there's a part in my posts that you guys aren't able to see. Try this:
    Anyway my point was that sales don't prove quality. Especially when it comes to launch and pre-order sales.

    OctoberRaven on
    Currently Most Hype For: Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding
    Currently Playing: Dragon Ball Xenoverse
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited January 20
    If I were to talk to any of my family about Battlefront, and they said, "hey, that looks pretty cool, like you can be in Star Wars!" They are not going to understand a rant about loot boxes and pay to win or anything.

    This is what EA counts on, and why they make boatloads of money releasing their yearly sports titles regardless of perception of EA in the more "tuned in" gamer communities.
    When they didnt do as well as EA hoped but they were nowhere near failures.

    In the American style of capitalism, this is exactly what would make it a failure. It "only" made $$$$ and not $$$$$, so it failed.

    We don't really know what Disney's actual opinion of this deal is though. They might be fine with it, they might not. We probably won't even see a hint until the end of the term when it's time to determine renewal.

    Gee I sure hope their next project is a new Yoda Stories though.

    Donnicton on
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  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    If I were to talk to any of my family about Battlefront, and they said, "hey, that looks pretty cool, like you can be in Star Wars!" They are not going to understand a rant about loot boxes and pay to win or anything.

    This is what EA counts on, and why they make boatloads of money releasing their yearly sports titles regardless of perception of EA in the more "tuned in" gamer communities.

    Also because FIFA's FUT has basically the same lootbox scheme but because there's no controversy they still make hand over fist.

    Currently Most Hype For: Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding
    Currently Playing: Dragon Ball Xenoverse
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    You have a point regarding the sports titles and why there is damn near zero blips in regard to the shitty lootbox mechanics in them. I do not know how to account for why Star Wars got the hype/outrage and sports didnt. All I can assume is that Star Wars fans run the gamut of people and on the whole might actually outnumber sports gamers. I am very reticent in simply saying sports gamers on the whole, simply didn't know better.

    I am however, looking over stock prices as a general trend of popularity of a brand or publisher.

    AAA as a whole is on a massive downward trend. I don't think it is possible to deny that crappy mobile games, absolutely shitty games that shouldn't even be alpha quality, pay to win loot boxes (and loot boxes in general), abysmal PR campaigns (ex. Battlefield V) and overall shitty customer appreciation/service have had an effect on stocks last year. This scared the crap out of investors who in turn, sold their stocks. No, this isn't enough to kill shitty AAA companies because they can survive for a long time on life support. Case and point, while the stocks have just about been cut in have for EA, Blizz/Activision, and Ubisoft by the end of December, their stocks *have* started trending up again. I'm attributing this to investors thinking they can start making money again despite the general gamer population's grumblings, if only in the short term. I could be wrong, but I wont know until the Q4 financial reports come out. I would be amazed if investors think they can get to previous share prices though.

    I know there is a whole 'echo chamber' regarding who complainers are the ones that get upvotes, agrees, and coverage,
    Gamers as a whole are displeased with what AAA are doing, and realizing that their reviews and outcry -do- have a perceived effect on the companies they have grievances with.

    I'm curious to see if gamers and casual gamers are actually burned out on these shitty practices by AAA. I've basically given up on first person shooters and I couldn't be happier (my own anecdotes do not represent the community at large), but I do understand that many people like games that certain companies put out and one of my friends put it simply, "I know this game is shit, but its the only one in town..." And that sentiment cannot be disregarded or understated.

    It might be wise to tell people to start going through their backlogs and playing games they never finished or played for more than a couple days.

    notoriusben_zpsa205e831.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    So it seems Disney is pretty ok with EAs handling of the license, as they came out and said they did ok and Disney is happy with their current licensing situation. I'm surprised the low number of games is not bothering Disney, but I'm not surprised Disney doesn't care about the actual quality of Battlefront. I have no idea if Disney's deal makes them money based off of Battlefront's sales or not, but either way the game seems to have sold, and I imagine the main reason Disney wants to license IPs is to keep the IP visible. EA is doing its job if it keeps Stormtroopers on shelves, and as long as the IP *looks* exactly right, the integrity of the product doesn't really hurt the brand.

  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    Honestly, if EA want to impress Disney, they should make a Revan-era game with HK-47 heavily involved.

    Once Disney becomes a quadrillion dollar company selling HK-47 merch they'll let EA do whatever they want forever.

    Currently Most Hype For: Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding
    Currently Playing: Dragon Ball Xenoverse
  • LemonsLemons Registered User regular
    I love strips like this where Tycho and Gabe are in a scenario completely unrelated to the subject they're talking about. Such a funny concept that no matter what is happening (somebody standing on the wing for instance) they're just going to keep talking about video games.

    DjiemH3Knuckles
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