Great interview. I wish we could all be so self-aware and accountable.
I will give him that much.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Before reading that interview I hadn't realize that James Gunn wrote the script for Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead remake.
Zack Snyder's movies tend to pretty bad, mediocre at best. He's got great visual style, but that's about it. I've never particularly cared for any of his movies. Except for the Dawn of the Dead which I always thought was great, and that's been confusing the heck out of me for a long time now. Why is it that this one movie of his is so good when the rest of them are so bad?
And to think that all this time I could've figured it all out just by paying a little more attention to the credits.
Yes! I was worried that MJ wouldn't be able to add 'Spider-Man appears everywhere we go' and 'Peter vanishes every time Spider-Man appears'.
This just leaves Flash as the only apparently smart person who really should be able to figure it out.
Yes! I was worried that MJ wouldn't be able to add 'Spider-Man appears everywhere we go' and 'Peter vanishes every time Spider-Man appears'.
This just leaves Flash as the only apparently smart person who really should be able to figure it out.
Spider-Man Clip Spoiler Talk:
Should be able to, but character wise, of course Flash would never in a thousand years be able to even consider the possibility that Peter is Spider-Man.
Yes! I was worried that MJ wouldn't be able to add 'Spider-Man appears everywhere we go' and 'Peter vanishes every time Spider-Man appears'.
This just leaves Flash as the only apparently smart person who really should be able to figure it out.
Spider-Man Clip Spoiler Talk:
Should be able to, but character wise, of course Flash would never in a thousand years be able to even consider the possibility that Peter is Spider-Man.
It'd be funny if flash already figured it out, but is deluded enough to think he's the only one and so he continues to treat Peter like shit to help maintain his cover,
but he still feels obligated to constantly praise Spider-Man around Peter
Yes! I was worried that MJ wouldn't be able to add 'Spider-Man appears everywhere we go' and 'Peter vanishes every time Spider-Man appears'.
This just leaves Flash as the only apparently smart person who really should be able to figure it out.
This reminded me of a good bit in Ms.Marvel's comic
Kamala reveals her identity as Ms.Marvel to all of her friends, every single friend is basically "Ya I know, I was just waiting for you to finally tell me, took you long enough"
Yes! I was worried that MJ wouldn't be able to add 'Spider-Man appears everywhere we go' and 'Peter vanishes every time Spider-Man appears'.
This just leaves Flash as the only apparently smart person who really should be able to figure it out.
Spider-Man Clip Spoiler Talk:
Should be able to, but character wise, of course Flash would never in a thousand years be able to even consider the possibility that Peter is Spider-Man.
It'd be funny if flash already figured it out, but is deluded enough to think he's the only one and so he continues to treat Peter like shit to help maintain his cover,
but he still feels obligated to constantly praise Spider-Man around Peter
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited May 2019
How do people feel about Captain Marvel in this thread. A lot of folks I talk to about MCU think it’s one of the worst of the bunch but I really like it. It has a great message for everyone and especially women and girls, which is that, at the end of the day, we have nothing to prove to anyone else.
Also I’m not sure how I could not like CM
trashing an entire kree fleet by herself, and then (Endgame spoiler)
How do people feel about Captain Marvel in this thread. A lot of folks I talk to about MCU think it’s one of the worst of the bunch but I really like it. It has a great message for everyone and especially women and girls, which is that, at the end of the day, we have nothing to prove to anyone else.
Also I’m not sure how I could not like CM
trashing an entire kree fleet by herself, and then (Endgame spoiler)
It feels a little time shifted. It would have been a great Phase 1 movie. For the end of the big arc phase we're currently wrapping up it felt a little under connected. That feels like a consequence of the fact that we're going to be entering a rebuilding phase and will see a few more movies like this.
That's compounded by the arc not being super obvious. The climax of the film is Carol's conflict with the Supreme Intelligence and a lot of folks miss that. Of course the rest of the film feels kinda low stakes, it is low stakes now that Carol understands just how strong she is.
I liked Captain Marvel a lot more than I expected to. The arc being more about her discovering her enormous power was good and, though vague and depoliticized, had at least the flavour of feminism. The dialogue and chemistry with SLJ was strong, and her affable cockiness was really charming and fresh. Action scenes were decent to good, though one was too dark and the big CG battle at the end was pretty floaty.
But I felt the climax, her confrontation with the SI, was weak. It was a sort of typical "believe in yourself" generic moment. They they were very excited about the (quite affecting) sequence of her getting up after being knocked down throughout her life, but it was empty of meaning. There was a disconnected "only human" line, which didn't attach to any of the themes in the film and in fact clashed with some of them (her humanity has nothing to do with what makes her so powerful; she is basically a cosmic god, having transcended most mortal beings by far), and then they had the traditional, cheesy beam vs beam contest, which is always disappointing.
To make that scene land, I think they needed to focus more on the idea that her enormous, incalculable power is restrained not by the inhibitor but by their manipulation and conditioning. I was really interested in this angle because, again, it seemed to connect to a feminist position on how emotion is villified, that women who are "too emotional" need to control themselves and be controlled, that women's emotions are a threat to power if they're accepted as valid, etc. Instead the framing made it seem like her victory was just a triumph of pure will, because 1) the Intelligence's manipulation was pretty crude and obvious, which didn't give much purchase for a thematic resistance of its influence, and 2) her ability to resist wasn't grounded in anything aside from her will, and they didn't linger on possible alternatives. It came off as cheesy rather than profoundly triumphant; I was more moved by her friend's speech.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I thought the scene between her and Jude Law where he tries to goad her into fighting sans powers and she just knocks him across the fucking field was pretty effective. I mean yeah the message is generic but we’ve rarely seen it from the perspective of a woman, and never seen it in the MCU.
The kree spend the whole movie telling her what she can’t do, just like when she was growing up people told her what she can’t do and she fucking did it anyway to prove them wrong. But the message is that proving people wrong is worthless because they will still doubt you or at least ignore you. When she knocks the piss out of her handler it’s the culmination of the take charge of self moment. She answers to no one but herself, despite the hardships of being a woman and a kree outsider. The only person who decides what she can and can’t do is herself.
Like I said I think that’s a critical message for young women and girls, because it hasn’t been wrapped in the trappings of this pop culture juggernaut until now.
The weird thing about Captain Marvel is that it's basically a prequel for the Avengers and Phase 1 (aside from First Avenger.) but it came out right before the big finale of the last ten years.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I also think it’s weird that CM was largely sidelined in Endgame. If hers is the penultimate film before the end of the core Avengers, I think she warranted a bit more screen time. Especially because of her friendship with Fury.
I liked CM. That said, I feel the movie should have shown us more of the heroic Kree and Carol's friendship/mentoring with Jude Law. That would have made the twist a lot more surprising and gut-punchy.
I do look forward to seeing what they do with her next. She can literally punch a war fleet into dust, and I'm sure MCU writers are smart enough to avoid a Superman-style power-creep, so I hope we get some interesting movies where where she faces problems that need more than just stronger punching to be solved.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
How do people feel about Captain Marvel in this thread. A lot of folks I talk to about MCU think it’s one of the worst of the bunch but I really like it. It has a great message for everyone and especially women and girls, which is that, at the end of the day, we have nothing to prove to anyone else.
Also I’m not sure how I could not like CM
trashing an entire kree fleet by herself, and then (Endgame spoiler)
single-handedly destroying Thanos’s ship.
I work with a guy who considers himself ‘politically incorrect’. He didn’t like Black Panther much because it was ‘just catering to black people’ (he’s pretty openly racist), so I was expecting the same reaction to Captain Marvel and catering to women. He didn’t disappoint. I was expecting it because he ranted about Brie Larson in Kong (‘the woman in King Kong is supposed to be beautiful’).
Every other person I’ve asked about the film enjoyed it, even if some thought it wasn’t as strong a movie as it’s message.
Captain Marvel understood something a lot of prequels don't: just because a movie is largely tensionless doesn't mean it can't be entertaining.
Maybe it was tensionless to people who read the comics, but to me who never read any of the comics there was tension all the way up until she went full Super Saiyan and showed nope, she can fuck EVERYBODY's shit up.
But yeah, still entertaining as hell.
I do wish they were a little less "CHECK IT OUT IT'S THE 90S!" and just let it be the 90s.
I do wish I'd seen it a second time in theaters. Guess I'll have to buy it when it comes out and see it again.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The best thing they could've done for the Captain Marvel film was release it back with the other Phase 1 films it should've been with, yeah; then had Danvers popping up now and again, either by name or appearance, in the following years of the MCU (along with her own films). They clearly have her working against the Kree for her future films, which would've been excellent to have when the GotG stuff started rolling; instead of the Kree being blue bad people or something, we could've known by then, via the Captain Marvel films, just why it's a big deal the Kree suddenly agreed to peace. And her being occupied with the Kree would've also helped explain why she's not around to help with big Earth-, Asgard-, or galaxy-shattering problems elsewhere.
It's just a dang shame that her intro movie took place years after the MCU moved away from intro movies, because it makes it sort of stick out in comparison to the likes of Spider-Man and Black Panther where the movie can just get moving instead of burning a ton of time on origin stories. Danvers with some MCU time would've been even better when she
made her appearance in the final fight in Endgame and had nothing more than a disapproving look to say about Thanos headbutting her.
That stuff was still awesome and I'm glad we got to have her there for that, but it would've been so much better if we'd had Danvers around for a film or two first, integrated with other MCU material.
I think Captain marvel as a phase one film would have been a huge risk! I don't think it fits well earlier in the movie release sequences... it's believable because it comes when it does, after all the world building is effectively complete.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Yeah, there's no way it would've ever actually been a phase one film, because they were definitely still feeling things out back then. They had absolutely not yet committed to the massive-scale interconnection between the different heroes, and Iron Man was still considered a "less known" hero to experiment with; in that regard, Danvers would've been virtually unheard of by most people and likely wouldn't even have realized Marvel has a Captain Marvel.
But in terms of the feel of the film, it would've fit right in for Phase One where the films were pretty mono-focused on their own characters.
At the very very least, I do wish we'd gotten at least one other film in her franchise in before Infinity War. We spend a ton of the Captain Marvel film just waiting to find out who Danvers is, and a second film where she got to really flesh out the character the whole time would've been great.
I think it would have been more difficult to make a movie where one of the main characters needs to look ~16 years younger in 2011, than it was to make a movie where one of the main characters needs to look 24 years younger in 2019.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I think Captain marvel as a phase one film would have been a huge risk! I don't think it fits well earlier in the movie release sequences... it's believable because it comes when it does, after all the world building is effectively complete.
That's been the general wisdom but it turns out movies starring women sell. (Star wars, WW). I think they could have done it. Iron man was kind of a b list character until 2007.
I think Captain marvel as a phase one film would have been a huge risk! I don't think it fits well earlier in the movie release sequences... it's believable because it comes when it does, after all the world building is effectively complete.
That's been the general wisdom but it turns out movies starring women sell. (Star wars, WW). I think they could have done it. Iron man was kind of a b list character until 2007.
Nah, Iron man was D-list at best. That is the secret of the MCU, it took a bunch of characters that nobody though would make great solo movies and then proved everybody wrong.
Every character in the original Avengers except Hulk was a non-entity in the wider world before the MCU. Now they are A-list.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
The current MCU is the result of Marvel mortgaging everything they had to make a movie about one of the few bigish* name characters they still had rights to starring an actor that nobody would insure.
*And as others have noted, he wasn't that big a name.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Posts
He got to do that in Infinity War. He was heavily involved with the Guardians parts, from what I understand
I will give him that much.
Zack Snyder's movies tend to pretty bad, mediocre at best. He's got great visual style, but that's about it. I've never particularly cared for any of his movies. Except for the Dawn of the Dead which I always thought was great, and that's been confusing the heck out of me for a long time now. Why is it that this one movie of his is so good when the rest of them are so bad?
And to think that all this time I could've figured it all out just by paying a little more attention to the credits.
I thought the whole kerfuffle happened months after they finished shooting IW?
EDIT: yeah, they wrapped shooting up in january 2018, and the firing was in july
Yeah, my point was that he was, in fact, able to do the stereotypical hero/heroine stuff.
Ah, I thought you were saying that he was able to do [the rocket stuff he regretted not finishing] in IW
Well that explains it. Capt Marvel is such a Kelly Sue.
Yes! I was worried that MJ wouldn't be able to add 'Spider-Man appears everywhere we go' and 'Peter vanishes every time Spider-Man appears'.
This just leaves Flash as the only apparently smart person who really should be able to figure it out.
Spider-Man Clip Spoiler Talk:
but he still feels obligated to constantly praise Spider-Man around Peter
This reminded me of a good bit in Ms.Marvel's comic
Also I’m not sure how I could not like CM
I liked Captain Marvel a lot, yeah.
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That's compounded by the arc not being super obvious. The climax of the film is Carol's conflict with the Supreme Intelligence and a lot of folks miss that. Of course the rest of the film feels kinda low stakes, it is low stakes now that Carol understands just how strong she is.
But I felt the climax, her confrontation with the SI, was weak. It was a sort of typical "believe in yourself" generic moment. They they were very excited about the (quite affecting) sequence of her getting up after being knocked down throughout her life, but it was empty of meaning. There was a disconnected "only human" line, which didn't attach to any of the themes in the film and in fact clashed with some of them (her humanity has nothing to do with what makes her so powerful; she is basically a cosmic god, having transcended most mortal beings by far), and then they had the traditional, cheesy beam vs beam contest, which is always disappointing.
To make that scene land, I think they needed to focus more on the idea that her enormous, incalculable power is restrained not by the inhibitor but by their manipulation and conditioning. I was really interested in this angle because, again, it seemed to connect to a feminist position on how emotion is villified, that women who are "too emotional" need to control themselves and be controlled, that women's emotions are a threat to power if they're accepted as valid, etc. Instead the framing made it seem like her victory was just a triumph of pure will, because 1) the Intelligence's manipulation was pretty crude and obvious, which didn't give much purchase for a thematic resistance of its influence, and 2) her ability to resist wasn't grounded in anything aside from her will, and they didn't linger on possible alternatives. It came off as cheesy rather than profoundly triumphant; I was more moved by her friend's speech.
The kree spend the whole movie telling her what she can’t do, just like when she was growing up people told her what she can’t do and she fucking did it anyway to prove them wrong. But the message is that proving people wrong is worthless because they will still doubt you or at least ignore you. When she knocks the piss out of her handler it’s the culmination of the take charge of self moment. She answers to no one but herself, despite the hardships of being a woman and a kree outsider. The only person who decides what she can and can’t do is herself.
Like I said I think that’s a critical message for young women and girls, because it hasn’t been wrapped in the trappings of this pop culture juggernaut until now.
I do look forward to seeing what they do with her next. She can literally punch a war fleet into dust, and I'm sure MCU writers are smart enough to avoid a Superman-style power-creep, so I hope we get some interesting movies where where she faces problems that need more than just stronger punching to be solved.
I work with a guy who considers himself ‘politically incorrect’. He didn’t like Black Panther much because it was ‘just catering to black people’ (he’s pretty openly racist), so I was expecting the same reaction to Captain Marvel and catering to women. He didn’t disappoint. I was expecting it because he ranted about Brie Larson in Kong (‘the woman in King Kong is supposed to be beautiful’).
Every other person I’ve asked about the film enjoyed it, even if some thought it wasn’t as strong a movie as it’s message.
That's the part that's shocking to you? I had no idea Larson was the woman in Kong.
Oh i didn't either but I'm rarely shocked to find out I didn't know something.
I’ve given up trying to navigate his mental gymnastics.
Larson plays a photographer.
Yes because she's shown a propensity for not dealing with your (royal "your") shit so automatically that'll knock her down a few pegs.
Maybe it was tensionless to people who read the comics, but to me who never read any of the comics there was tension all the way up until she went full Super Saiyan and showed nope, she can fuck EVERYBODY's shit up.
But yeah, still entertaining as hell.
I do wish they were a little less "CHECK IT OUT IT'S THE 90S!" and just let it be the 90s.
I do wish I'd seen it a second time in theaters. Guess I'll have to buy it when it comes out and see it again.
It's just a dang shame that her intro movie took place years after the MCU moved away from intro movies, because it makes it sort of stick out in comparison to the likes of Spider-Man and Black Panther where the movie can just get moving instead of burning a ton of time on origin stories. Danvers with some MCU time would've been even better when she
But in terms of the feel of the film, it would've fit right in for Phase One where the films were pretty mono-focused on their own characters.
At the very very least, I do wish we'd gotten at least one other film in her franchise in before Infinity War. We spend a ton of the Captain Marvel film just waiting to find out who Danvers is, and a second film where she got to really flesh out the character the whole time would've been great.
That's been the general wisdom but it turns out movies starring women sell. (Star wars, WW). I think they could have done it. Iron man was kind of a b list character until 2007.
Nah, Iron man was D-list at best. That is the secret of the MCU, it took a bunch of characters that nobody though would make great solo movies and then proved everybody wrong.
Every character in the original Avengers except Hulk was a non-entity in the wider world before the MCU. Now they are A-list.
*And as others have noted, he wasn't that big a name.