I like to pretend I'm a developer, but everything I get in the weeds with devops/build chain shit I feel like a complete fraud. I made a little Common project that houses the CQRS framework that I'm sharing on my tinkered project, and decided I'd make a nuget package out of it. It took three nights to get it automated and working, but now I go to use it in Blazor, I neet dotnetstandard20 instead of netcoreapp2.0. Supposedly I can just add a target platform, and that even works for one of the projects, but in the main project it gives some path error that I can't even begin to troubleshoot. And every step of trying to fix the fucking thing is 5-10 minutes of making a commit, waiting for triggers, waiting for the build, and reading the log to figure out what stupid thing I've done now.
In VS I can just hit the GO button and be done, why can't devops be as smart?
Me: *has one shitty React weekend experiment on Github*
Recruiters: "I see you have 28 years of experience with React!"
What that really means is that you have 28 times the experience of the average dev who advertises a year of experience with react.
"i was once in a room that had a computer monitor that had some react code displaying on it"
HIRED IMMEDIATELY
I once went into an interview for a company that used React in which they were fully aware I had no experience in React. One of the interview segments for the four-hour interview process was a pair-programming exercise in which I wrote a to-do app while I learned React.
They didn't hire me because I didn't have enough React experience.
Me: *has one shitty React weekend experiment on Github*
Recruiters: "I see you have 28 years of experience with React!"
What that really means is that you have 28 times the experience of the average dev who advertises a year of experience with react.
"i was once in a room that had a computer monitor that had some react code displaying on it"
HIRED IMMEDIATELY
I once went into an interview for a company that used React in which they were fully aware I had no experience in React. One of the interview segments for the four-hour interview process was a pair-programming exercise in which I wrote a to-do app while I learned React.
They didn't hire me because I didn't have enough React experience.
I've had that happen.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
The funny part is that React itself is a dumb simple framework. Even with a lot of the new goodies like context API and hooks, it's very simple. It only really cares about your view layer. It's all the OTHER shit you find in most big React apps like Redux that shoot the learning curve straight up.
Don't get me started on Redux. Anyone who thinks that much dumb boiler plate is how you should write software is a menace to society. I've personally settled on unstated when I need state management. Frankly for most small apps you can just use the context API though.
Christ I just worked nearly 12 hours to end up committing 8 lines of code.
I guess at least now I know a whole lot more about AWS sigV4 authentication and the requests module in python.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
The funny part is that React itself is a dumb simple framework. Even with a lot of the new goodies like context API and hooks, it's very simple. It only really cares about your view layer. It's all the OTHER shit you find in most big React apps like Redux that shoot the learning curve straight up.
Don't get me started on Redux. Anyone who thinks that much dumb boiler plate is how you should write software is a menace to society. I've personally settled on unstated when I need state management. Frankly for most small apps you can just use the context API though.
I've had some fun Cerebral - it seems quite grokable for me when I used it.
I've used React for several years now and haven't found the need for redux. Every redux tutorial I've used has been overwhelmingly complicated for me.
Also Angular sucks.
Man, I thought we were all friends here.
To be fair I'm stuck on AngularJS 1.6 or whatever at my job. I've been slowing migrating them to React but almost every project I've been on is Angular 1.6. Angular 4 is as close to React as you can get so I am alright with that.
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Ear3nd1lEärendil the Mariner, father of ElrondRegistered Userregular
I've used React for several years now and haven't found the need for redux. Every redux tutorial I've used has been overwhelmingly complicated for me.
Also Angular sucks.
Man, I thought we were all friends here.
To be fair I'm stuck on AngularJS 1.6 or whatever at my job. I've been slowing migrating them to React but almost every project I've been on is Angular 1.6. Angular 4 is as close to React as you can get so I am alright with that.
Ahh, I see your pain. AngularJS is definitely painful. I went through all the growing pains with Angular2+ while it was still in beta but once they released it was nice and smooth from there.
@bowen Javascript does indeed suck, but until Typescript becomes more mainstream or something better comes along, we are stuck with it. Unfortunately, I do not really have a choice in what I end up using, it all comes down to what my client wants to use. That's why I have almost everything on my resume. I'm kind of a "jack of all trades, master of none" developer, which sucks. I would much rather have a consistent stack I work with, but c'est la vie. I had two React/node projects last year, one Angular4/node, and one Vue/node. My first project this year was Golang, and my current one is React/C#/.NET Core. Just about the only thing I haven't done when it comes to web development is Python and Ruby.
I legit don't know the benefits of TS over JS. I see that it gives javascript type-strength (as opposed to type-spirit, heyooo) but what benefit does that give me as a developer? It keeps newbs from passing an integer into a function that requires a string and that's good I suppose.
I love the wild west nature of Javascript and Python. But I'm more of a solo developer so maybe that's why... If I'm creating a function then I am passing myself the data so I know what I need and what will break it.
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Ear3nd1lEärendil the Mariner, father of ElrondRegistered Userregular
Here are a couple of articles that outline the differences...
I legit don't know the benefits of TS over JS. I see that it gives javascript type-strength (as opposed to type-spirit, heyooo) but what benefit does that give me as a developer? It keeps newbs from passing an integer into a function that requires a string and that's good I suppose.
I love the wild west nature of Javascript and Python. But I'm more of a solo developer so maybe that's why... If I'm creating a function then I am passing myself the data so I know what I need and what will break it.
The biggest advantage for me is that when I immediately forget the arguments for the service call I just wrote, Intellisense (or whatever VSCode calls it) will tell them to me.
I legit don't know the benefits of TS over JS. I see that it gives javascript type-strength (as opposed to type-spirit, heyooo) but what benefit does that give me as a developer? It keeps newbs from passing an integer into a function that requires a string and that's good I suppose.
I love the wild west nature of Javascript and Python. But I'm more of a solo developer so maybe that's why... If I'm creating a function then I am passing myself the data so I know what I need and what will break it.
The biggest advantage for me is that when I immediately forget the arguments for the service call I just wrote, Intellisense (or whatever VSCode calls it) will tell them to me.
If you comment your code (I don't) you can have this in Javascript but I can see this benefit. My pea brain remembers few things so this could save me a lot of time.
I legit don't know the benefits of TS over JS. I see that it gives javascript type-strength (as opposed to type-spirit, heyooo) but what benefit does that give me as a developer? It keeps newbs from passing an integer into a function that requires a string and that's good I suppose.
I love the wild west nature of Javascript and Python. But I'm more of a solo developer so maybe that's why... If I'm creating a function then I am passing myself the data so I know what I need and what will break it.
A lot of the issues that arise from JS being shit is because someone didn't check truthiness or did some weird object juxtapositioning. TS fixes a lot of that dumb behavior out of the box. Though this adds another layer you've got to keep an eye out for things breaking too, but I'd much rather trust TS than raw JS written by a dev unless the project was small enough.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
True but once you get the quirks of the truthiness it isn't that big of an issue.
I mean as a single dev sure.
But once you work with a few jr devs or someone who doesn't work with JS frequently enough...
Right that's why I mentioned that I was mostly a solo developer. So the benefit of JS/Python is that it's easy to deal with everything without worrying about typing and all that because I know what everything needs and expects.
Christ I just worked nearly 12 hours to end up committing 8 lines of code.
I guess at least now I know a whole lot more about AWS sigV4 authentication and the requests module in python.
This is relevant to my interests. I mean, I really wish it wasn't, because I just hate dynamically typed languages in general. But it is something I have to deal with regularly.
This seems to imply Boto3 isn't using Requests anymore. Are you on an old Boto?
Replace JS in the browser with Haskell literally anything else.
ftfy
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
One of the big benefits of TypeScript is data shape safety, which is a huge deal in a language where an object can literally be anything, and contain any value. Take for example an extremely long promise chain that needs to chain data down through each step. In pure JavaScript it can become extremely maintenance intensive to remember the shapes of all the data coming through the chain. This is an extremely common use case in server side JavaScript, where you're creating asynchronous pipelines. TypeScript helps protect from an incredibly insidious class of error in that case, where data shape gets lost and the original meaning of the objects moving through your system is forgotten.
There are myriad cases where knowing the shape of your pure JavaScript objects and enforcing it is incredibly valuable and catches errors even before your tests do. If you're using an editor that integrates well (which is like, every editor now), you also get all the editor niceties to help (intellisense, autocomplete, etc).
JavaScript isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. It's the most popular programming language in the world and the money in it at the senior/lead back end level is exceptional. I make more doing Node than I ever did doing .NET, I get to work in a UNIX environment, don't have to use Visual Studio and the job prospects are effectively limitless in my area. Hater's gonna hate, but my career is doing just fine in the JavaScript world. If it ever falls out of favor? That's fine, I'm a talented enough engineer to go work in some other stack.
Christ I just worked nearly 12 hours to end up committing 8 lines of code.
I guess at least now I know a whole lot more about AWS sigV4 authentication and the requests module in python.
This is relevant to my interests. I mean, I really wish it wasn't, because I just hate dynamically typed languages in general. But it is something I have to deal with regularly.
This seems to imply Boto3 isn't using Requests anymore. Are you on an old Boto?
ftfy
Oh, if only it was Boto.
No it's a custom internal service whose API will authenticate over Kerberos or sigV4, the only client they've written is in ruby, the unofficial python client only supports Kerberos which is useless so I had to bolt sigV4 onto that.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Christ I just worked nearly 12 hours to end up committing 8 lines of code.
I guess at least now I know a whole lot more about AWS sigV4 authentication and the requests module in python.
This is relevant to my interests. I mean, I really wish it wasn't, because I just hate dynamically typed languages in general. But it is something I have to deal with regularly.
This seems to imply Boto3 isn't using Requests anymore. Are you on an old Boto?
ftfy
Oh, if only it was Boto.
No it's a custom internal service whose API will authenticate over Kerberos or sigV4, the only client they've written is in ruby, the unofficial python client only supports Kerberos which is useless so I had to bolt sigV4 onto that.
Blegh. I feel your pain.
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Is working with visual studio a downside for some? The debugger is literally the best.
I wasn't smart enough to use debuggers back when I was working in C# (~2012), but to this day I have only positive things to say about VS and C#. IntelliJ/Pycharm/Goland are great, but VS is sort of the gold standard for IDE user experience.
edit: I haven't worked with Typescript at all yet, but what I've seen is extremely promising. That DOES NOT mean I think it was ever a good idea to allow the javascript runtime to escape the browser. But that cat is already out of the bag. If you find yourself forced to work in that environment, at least now there is a seemingly tolerable language to use.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Is working with visual studio a downside for some? The debugger is literally the best.
I wasn't smart enough to use debuggers back when I was working in C# (~2012), but to this day I have only positive things to say about VS and C#. IntelliJ/Pycharm/Goland are great, but VS is sort of the gold standard for IDE user experience.
edit: I haven't worked with Typescript at all yet, but what I've seen is extremely promising. That DOES NOT mean I think it was ever a good idea to allow the javascript runtime to escape the browser. But that cat is already out of the bag. If you find yourself forced to work in that environment, at least now there is a seemingly tolerable language to use.
After a brief period where I touched gdb I don't want to use anything but studio ever again.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
+1
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
My only complaint about Visual Studio is that I have to have Visual Studio running to use it. The IDE is great; the application... ugh.
I haven't had to use a debugger other than Visual Studio and Chrome in a very long time, and I find them about equal.
mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
I'm pretty sure I have stockholm syndrome when it comes to gdb. But I also don't do Windows development so it's not like I could make use of it anyway (or can I ??)
Posts
I understood some of these words.
"i was once in a room that had a computer monitor that had some react code displaying on it"
HIRED IMMEDIATELY
I once went into an interview for a company that used React in which they were fully aware I had no experience in React. One of the interview segments for the four-hour interview process was a pair-programming exercise in which I wrote a to-do app while I learned React.
They didn't hire me because I didn't have enough React experience.
I've had that happen.
Don't get me started on Redux. Anyone who thinks that much dumb boiler plate is how you should write software is a menace to society. I've personally settled on unstated when I need state management. Frankly for most small apps you can just use the context API though.
I guess at least now I know a whole lot more about AWS sigV4 authentication and the requests module in python.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
But is is only for massive apps. With the Context API the times you need Redux has shrunk considerably.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I've had some fun Cerebral - it seems quite grokable for me when I used it.
don't @ me
Also Angular sucks.
Man, I thought we were all friends here.
This is a programming thread. We're all one mention of vi or tabs away from going to war.
Ah shit now you've done it
...
vim for life, death to emacs
To be fair I'm stuck on AngularJS 1.6 or whatever at my job. I've been slowing migrating them to React but almost every project I've been on is Angular 1.6. Angular 4 is as close to React as you can get so I am alright with that.
Ahh, I see your pain. AngularJS is definitely painful. I went through all the growing pains with Angular2+ while it was still in beta but once they released it was nice and smooth from there.
@bowen Javascript does indeed suck, but until Typescript becomes more mainstream or something better comes along, we are stuck with it. Unfortunately, I do not really have a choice in what I end up using, it all comes down to what my client wants to use. That's why I have almost everything on my resume. I'm kind of a "jack of all trades, master of none" developer, which sucks. I would much rather have a consistent stack I work with, but c'est la vie. I had two React/node projects last year, one Angular4/node, and one Vue/node. My first project this year was Golang, and my current one is React/C#/.NET Core. Just about the only thing I haven't done when it comes to web development is Python and Ruby.
If it could be it's own thing and not a superset of JS, then it would be fantastic.
I love the wild west nature of Javascript and Python. But I'm more of a solo developer so maybe that's why... If I'm creating a function then I am passing myself the data so I know what I need and what will break it.
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/difference-between-typescript-and-javascript/
https://itnext.io/choosing-typescript-vs-javascript-technology-popularity-ea978afd6b5f
https://khalilstemmler.com/articles/javascript-vs-typescript/
The biggest advantage for me is that when I immediately forget the arguments for the service call I just wrote, Intellisense (or whatever VSCode calls it) will tell them to me.
If you comment your code (I don't) you can have this in Javascript but I can see this benefit. My pea brain remembers few things so this could save me a lot of time.
This sounds like way more fun than what I'm doing at work right now, thank you!
A lot of the issues that arise from JS being shit is because someone didn't check truthiness or did some weird object juxtapositioning. TS fixes a lot of that dumb behavior out of the box. Though this adds another layer you've got to keep an eye out for things breaking too, but I'd much rather trust TS than raw JS written by a dev unless the project was small enough.
I mean as a single dev sure.
But once you work with a few jr devs or someone who doesn't work with JS frequently enough...
Right that's why I mentioned that I was mostly a solo developer. So the benefit of JS/Python is that it's easy to deal with everything without worrying about typing and all that because I know what everything needs and expects.
WebAssembly, you say?
This is relevant to my interests. I mean, I really wish it wasn't, because I just hate dynamically typed languages in general. But it is something I have to deal with regularly.
This seems to imply Boto3 isn't using Requests anymore. Are you on an old Boto?
ftfy
There are myriad cases where knowing the shape of your pure JavaScript objects and enforcing it is incredibly valuable and catches errors even before your tests do. If you're using an editor that integrates well (which is like, every editor now), you also get all the editor niceties to help (intellisense, autocomplete, etc).
JavaScript isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. It's the most popular programming language in the world and the money in it at the senior/lead back end level is exceptional. I make more doing Node than I ever did doing .NET, I get to work in a UNIX environment, don't have to use Visual Studio and the job prospects are effectively limitless in my area. Hater's gonna hate, but my career is doing just fine in the JavaScript world. If it ever falls out of favor? That's fine, I'm a talented enough engineer to go work in some other stack.
Oh, if only it was Boto.
No it's a custom internal service whose API will authenticate over Kerberos or sigV4, the only client they've written is in ruby, the unofficial python client only supports Kerberos which is useless so I had to bolt sigV4 onto that.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Blegh. I feel your pain.
Visual Studio Code is salvation. I loved WebStorm for a long time but it became a bloated mess and now VSC is taking its place.
I wasn't smart enough to use debuggers back when I was working in C# (~2012), but to this day I have only positive things to say about VS and C#. IntelliJ/Pycharm/Goland are great, but VS is sort of the gold standard for IDE user experience.
edit: I haven't worked with Typescript at all yet, but what I've seen is extremely promising. That DOES NOT mean I think it was ever a good idea to allow the javascript runtime to escape the browser. But that cat is already out of the bag. If you find yourself forced to work in that environment, at least now there is a seemingly tolerable language to use.
After a brief period where I touched gdb I don't want to use anything but studio ever again.
I haven't had to use a debugger other than Visual Studio and Chrome in a very long time, and I find them about equal.